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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: subpop200 on June 16, 2007, 12:18:22 AM
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So I'm new on this site and I am in the middle of a sustanon/dbol cutting cycle. YES, I said cutting haha. I decided not to do something like winstrol because dbol will keep me even less catabolic and so far all I'm seeing is losing lots of fat/gaining lots of quality muscle since I'm keeping the bloat down with letrozole and a solid diet low in sodium, extremely high in protein, and with carb cycling (low glycemic). So here is my question. This is infact my second cycle. My first cycle was just superdrol with pct and I managed to keep all my gains just fine. I'm worried about how I'm going to feel during pct. I feel a little too damn good on this cycle...almost as if my brain is producing way too much dopamine. How bad is a crash psychologically after finishing a lengthy cycle like sustanon/dbol? Here is why I'm concerned because after dropping dbol after my 4 week starter into my sustanon cycle...I went into a pretty moderate depression that already wore off but it was there nonetheless. I'm pretty damn sure dbol increases dopamine and is infact a feel good steroid. What is everyone's opinion on post cycle crashes? Do a lot of you get depressed afterwards? Does pct truly help to brnig you to a state of homeostasis both physically and MENTALLY? I wonder about this because I'm a constantly busy person and I need my natural drive when I go back to school. So yea....let's discuss!! :)
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only long courses ive done are show preps,,,, last time out i got the worst cash ive ever experienced,, didnt even want to train for a few month,,, i think that was 90% mental, as i had no problems in the bedroom at all
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Interesting subject. Now I'm not really sure if steroids increase dopeamine levels or not. I a while back posed this question to Marble The Great, I was asking about the effects of gear on all the neurotransmitters. Man that dude was so awesome he researched the whole thing and had plenty of med pubs to back him up on it, thats what I loved about the kid. Wish we could find that thread today.
From what I recall the answer is yes and no. One thing that was said is steroids will definitely highten the effects of other drugs you may be taking, from caffeine to weed.
Most of the post cycle depression IMO is in your head, very hard to go back to Joe normal after being superman for a while. Makes me never wanna come off. Psychologists would have a Field day with this!
Maybe if FreakfestMD has a chance and sees this he could translate this study for us, or at least me ??? Pretty sure Freak is a true Ivy Leaguer and is a certified genius :D
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11168533&dopt=Abstract
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Drol will mess with my head even when on it. Short runs 2 weeks max w/ the Drol.
Post cycle? I'd say anyone w/ serious depression has no biz CYCLING AAS. If the have a med issue to be on nonstop and Dr care is another matter.
Coming off a big load hard is no joke. I've had WAY better results tappering down to 200mg wk prior to PCT. I got lab work to back it up too. Everyone is different though.
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Drol will mess with my head even when on it. Short runs 2 weeks max w/ the Drol.
Post cycle? I'd say anyone w/ serious depression has no biz CYCLING AAS. If the have a med issue to be on nonstop and Dr care is another matter.
Coming off a big load hard is no joke. I've had WAY better results tappering down to 200mg wk prior to PCT. I got lab work to back it up too. Everyone is different though.
Agreed...long hard cycles are the toughest to come off of...particularly long hard diet/comp cycles. In that case, you're already completely run down, and then you abruptly remove all the drugs...this can be miserable for a short while. But a good PCT, keeping your food intake solid and just simply "manning up" is the ticket to getting around this.
BTW, subpop200, low sodium diets are asking for trouble IMO. The only time you should be messing with your sodium levels is at the end of a diet right before a comp, or if you're having blood pressure issues. Your body needs sodium to function properly, otherwise your setting yourself up for some serious cramping problems, by way of causing a unbalanced electrolyte flow in your body. If you're worried about excessive bloat because of your cycle, having a good AI as you do will take care of this...also, as long as your diet and training is on point, you should be fine.
This past year I started getting some horrendous cramps all over my body, all over, bi's pecs, lats, thighs and forearms. I discovered by way of a little help that m electrolytes were way off...my sodium was way too low, and I was supplementing with potassium to help with the cramps. My thinking is that the potassium would help this, after all, you always hear that you should eat things high in potassium to relieve cramps. This may be true, but if you're sodium is too low, the added potassium will only make things worse...as I found out. I then dropped my potassium pills, and upped my sodium intake tremendously, and low and behold, no more cramps.
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looking back if i were in the same situation again id just go back on a light course for a few weeks then come back off again or run a low dose for a few weeks before the 1st pct like was mentioned.
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ive done 6mon cycles a couple times with side effects that were controlable.i used to get angry easy.you have to watch your balls.if they start sucking up inside you stop the roids.i used to take pychotropen for the side effects . that stuff is awsome it helps with mood swings deppresion and the anger
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ive done 6mon cycles a couple times with side effects that were controlable.i used to get angry easy.you have to watch your balls.if they start sucking up inside you stop the roids.i used to take pychotropen for the side effects . that stuff is awsome it helps with mood swings deppresion and the anger
What do you mean "sucking up inside you"? Are you talking about shrinkage?
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I got this from Luv's link above, what the hell does it mean?
In recent years a male group of anabolic-androgenic steroid misusers has been identified to share socio-demographic and personality related background factors with misusers of psychotropic substances, as well as being involved in habits of multiple drug use. The present study aimed to assess whether anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) would affect the density of the dopamine receptors in areas implicated in reward and behaviour in the male rat brain. The effects of 2 weeks of treatment with i.m. injections of nandrolone decanoate (15 mg/kg/day) on the expression of the D(1)-like and D(2)-like receptors were evaluated by autoradiography. Specific binding of D(1)-like receptors was significantly down regulated in the caudate putamen, the nucleus accumbens core and shell. D(2)-like receptor densities were down regulated in the nucleus accumbens shell, but up regulated in the caudate putamen, the nucleus accumbens core and the ventral tegmental area. These results are compatible with nandrolone induced neuroadaptive alterations in dopamine circuits associated with motor functions and behavioural paradigms known to be affected following AAS misuse.
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I got this from Luv's link above, what the hell does it mean?
In recent years a male group of anabolic-androgenic steroid misusers has been identified to share socio-demographic and personality related background factors with misusers of psychotropic substances, as well as being involved in habits of multiple drug use. The present study aimed to assess whether anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS) would affect the density of the dopamine receptors in areas implicated in reward and behaviour in the male rat brain. The effects of 2 weeks of treatment with i.m. injections of nandrolone decanoate (15 mg/kg/day) on the expression of the D(1)-like and D(2)-like receptors were evaluated by autoradiography. Specific binding of D(1)-like receptors was significantly down regulated in the caudate putamen, the nucleus accumbens core and shell. D(2)-like receptor densities were down regulated in the nucleus accumbens shell, but up regulated in the caudate putamen, the nucleus accumbens core and the ventral tegmental area. These results are compatible with nandrolone induced neuroadaptive alterations in dopamine circuits associated with motor functions and behavioural paradigms known to be affected following AAS misuse.
Basicly theyR trying to put AAS in the "Feel Good dugs" group. Then they will be able to call AAS users "Drug Adicts" by their deffinition. Thats my take. Yes AAS are even indicated for male (climeractic sp?) depression like symptoms.
Low testo levels make a guy feel not so great, High test levels make him shoot his mouth off like a Pro Wrestler ;D.
There are forces working hard to vilify AAS.
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when you take steriods you are are replacing your own bodys hormones with synthetic hormones after awile your body stops producing its own hormones and your balls will rise inside the sack ,pull up in you this means you have been taking steroids to long if you stop your balls will go back to normal
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Interesting topic. I think thats why Im a little hesitant to do a real cycle of AAS. Ive been on Anti-Depressants for almost 3 yrs. Im taking 60mg of Paxil and 150mg of Trazadone, which is basically a sleeping pill and also helps with OCD. At the same time I drink and Ive done 4 cycles of Pro-hormones.
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Interesting topic. I think thats why Im a little hesitant to do a real cycle of AAS. Ive been on Anti-Depressants for almost 3 yrs. Im taking 60mg of Paxil and 150mg of Trazadone, which is basically a sleeping pill and also helps with OCD. At the same time I drink and Ive done 4 cycles of Pro-hormones.
Some of the Pro Hormones like M1t are worse than most AAS IMO.
I dont think its a great idea, when you come off there may be some real chemical issues w/ the mix your on.
If a person has had problems, and is Stable its a shame to mess that up, because it's very hard to achieve for some peeps. I spend a bit of time on the VA psyc ward with a Buddy now and then, there's a lot of wreckage there.Sad.
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Some of the Pro Hormones like M1t are worse than most AAS IMO.
I dont think its a great idea, when you come off there may be some real chemical issues w/ the mix your on.
If a person has had problems, and is Stable its a shame to mess that up, because it's very hard to achieve for some peeps. I spend a bit of time on the VA psyc ward with a Buddy now and then, there's a lot of wreckage there.Sad.
Trab is absolutely correct...PH's can be very dangerous and since you are a drinker Irish, this compounds the matter substantially.
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the side effects of pro hormones are really bad.some people that is all they can get.they used to hurt my kidneys.there is one that they still sell it is like tren i would still take it if i didnt like orals so much.that stuff is incredible i surprised it aint outlawed it s so good
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Soo, you guys would recommend taking a real cycle of AAS, and just stop messing with the pro-hormones? As for the drinking, im not bad at all, i only drink on the weekends, But will probably cut it down to only a few.
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Looks like I started a real discussion here haha. But in my opinion, I do honestly think steroids affect people psychologically. I am a very stable minded person...till I started this dbol/sustanon cycle. Maybe it's the inconsistancies of the sustanon and cutting off the dbol after 4 weeks to carry on with my sustanon cycle that suddenly made me pretty depressed. I mean...I never experienced such a clear cut psychological change in my whole life until I cut off the dbol and kept going with the sustanon and it wasn't a mind trick because I had no idea that steroids affected the mind like that and only assumed it was the steroids after wondering why I felt like this. It lasted about 2 weeks and now I'm coming back to normal mostly because I upped my b12 dose and that is helping quite a bit. I love the results of this cutting cycle though. I have nothing to complain about in that department...I'm just worried about a post cycle psychological crash. All I know is that, I felt like a god when I was on dbol...a sense of well being unlike anything else. Even alcohol doesn't make me feel that good and this lasted one month. So one month of feeling absolutely awesome and then cutting off the dbol abruptly since you shouldn't go beyond 4 weeks really screwed me up. Maybe next time I should only use test enan to keep consistant levels of test all the time. This is my speculation as to why I have strange and often severe mood changes from depressed to super aggressive/happy. And I don't mean aggressive in the sense that I wanna fight someone, more like a very confident sense of power. I never lash out or have uncontrollable aggression. My friends just notice that I'm much more assertive then suddenly when cutting the dbol just felt like absolute shit. I'd have moments of assertion and extreme confidence then next day suddenly tired, weak, depressed. It's almost like this cycle triggered manic depression.
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im taking dbol and sustn and i feel what your talking about i get in a bad mood after i take dbol i cut down to 20mg day
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You mean when you stopped using the dbol? Or while on dbol. Cause when I was on dbol I feel like a golden god hahaha. ;D But then I had the psychological problems when I discontinued the dbol and kept on with the sustanon.
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Soo, you guys would recommend taking a real cycle of AAS, and just stop messing with the pro-hormones? As for the drinking, im not bad at all, i only drink on the weekends, But will probably cut it down to only a few.
Im no fan of ProHormones. neither is any of the guys that are here regularly.
If the depression was serious, I wouldnt use aas or ProH's. If your just unmotivated and down is different that contemplating suicide, or doing the attention gettting cut yourself thing etc.
There's run of the mill depression, and there's serious mental illness. Depression can go that far.
Stopping juice is a abrubt drop in Super high levels of androgen, that's why I taper dose down.
I continue to have great workouts slowly droping down to 200mg Enan every 1wk/ to 5 days.
Lots of guys dont like to tapper, they drop hard w/ no problem. Not me.
(I should say I Used tapper, I stay on HRt at 47 yrs old, I feel better)
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You mean when you stopped using the dbol? Or while on dbol. Cause when I was on dbol I feel like a golden god hahaha. ;D But then I had the psychological problems when I discontinued the dbol and kept on with the sustanon.
From the longer post I'd say Dbol is not a great choice for you. I feel very energized and alert on it. My strength goes up significantly - FAST! I personally run it for aprox 4-6 wks at anywhere from 10-30mgs. I feel like crap on 50mgs.
From the sounds of this I'd slowly taper the sus to 1 x 250mg shot every 17th day for the last 2 or 3 shots prior to PCT. Sustanon and enanthate can let you down very hard if you have no experience w/ it. You will continue to feel ok on as little as 1cc every 17 days.
Drop a 1000mg load of Sus & Enanthate abruptly and tell me what you think ;D.
Androgen is power stuff, It's DRIVE-agression, assertion,Sex, Hunger.... can be hard to sleep on a big load.
I have a hard time sleep on Dbol after 3-4pm.
IF SOMTHING DONT AGREE WITH Ya's DONT USE IT ;).
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I feel great on test but deca is a no no for me,shit really messes with my head. :'(
Its a pity cos I had my best strength increases with decca/test combo.
Everyones differant I guess :)
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I feel great on test but deca is a no no for me,shit really messes with my head. :'(
Its a pity cos I had my best strength increases with decca/test combo.
Everyones differant I guess :)
Too much deca can put me in a irrational foul PMS like, just itchin' to fight mood.
Wifey say "when you gona have your period, this is the worst case of PMS I ever see"....
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Post cycle? I'd say anyone w/ serious depression has no biz CYCLING AAS.
Very well put.
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Well I was never clinically or seriously depressed before. I had mild depression every now and then...it was more dystemic and not serious, basically no need to take meds and it was non crippling. Nothing b12 and going out with my friends and working out couldn't cure quickly. Plus, I feel much better now. I think the big problem was coming off the dbol and the sustanon causing irregular test levels in my body making me get retarded mood swings. Besides, the kind of depression I got when I came off the dbol was nothing too serious, I was just kind of unmotivated and moderately depressed every now and then but still fully functional in every aspect of my life. That wore off till now since coming off the dbol about 16 days ago. Now I'm just feeling normal again even though I'm not done wtih my sustanon quite yet.
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Well I was never clinically or seriously depressed before. I had mild depression every now and then...it was more dystemic and not serious, basically no need to take meds and it was non crippling. Nothing b12 and going out with my friends and working out couldn't cure quickly. Plus, I feel much better now. I think the big problem was coming off the dbol and the sustanon causing irregular test levels in my body making me get retarded mood swings. Besides, the kind of depression I got when I came off the dbol was nothing too serious, I was just kind of unmotivated and moderately depressed every now and then but still fully functional in every aspect of my life. That wore off till now since coming off the dbol about 16 days ago. Now I'm just feeling normal again even though I'm not done wtih my sustanon quite yet.
YOu prolly want to stay away from anadrol, and maybe even deca over 400mg wk/ they both can get a little daft.
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i was taking tren for a couple of weeks then i came across a good deal on some dbol i was taking 30mg day and it was to much i cut it back down to 20mg. today i only took 10mg because i was getting really angry easy the sustn and deca made it worse.
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Yea definitely not anadrol haha. That's from what I read the strongest oral steroid...period. I definitely wouldn't wanna mess with that. Deca I don't even think I'm advanced enough to stack with that. I'm thinking for my next cycle I wanna do something simple like test enan and winstrol. I think dbol was awesome but coming off it was tough psychologically. I don't hear too much about winstrol causing huge delusions of grandeur, great sense of well being, or anything like that so maybe I'll be safer with winstrol and something that keeps test levels more consistant like test enanthate. Sustanon is a bitch.
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if you ever feel sad or depresed exercise or go to church or call someone who loves you
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Yea definitely not anadrol haha. That's from what I read the strongest oral steroid...period. I definitely wouldn't wanna mess with that. Deca I don't even think I'm advanced enough to stack with that. I'm thinking for my next cycle I wanna do something simple like test enan and winstrol. I think dbol was awesome but coming off it was tough psychologically. I don't hear too much about winstrol causing huge delusions of grandeur, great sense of well being, or anything like that so maybe I'll be safer with winstrol and something that keeps test levels more consistant like test enanthate. Sustanon is a bitch.
I like your cautious approach. And yes IMO also test E or C is a better choice than Sust. Dont be afraid of deca or anadrol they both when used properly and it sounds like you do, will not cause any problems. Test cyp, deca and anadrol was the best cycle I ever did.