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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: columbusdude82 on June 17, 2007, 02:11:38 PM
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I read this AMAZING book over the course of the past week. I've been wanting to read it for months, but school got in the way.
It expands on the documentary "Root of All Evil?" that Dawkins made for British television. I highly recommend the documentary as well. Unfortunately it is no longer available on Youtube, but it is still on Google video. (Just search for Dawkins, it is bound to turn up in the first few results!)
Dawkins doesn't use the stinging rhetoric of Christopher Hitchens (See my other thread), but he does include a lot more science, from the origin of the universe, to the origins of life, to evolution and natural selection, to the grand, unifying theory of biology (namely, Darwinism).
Some (but by no means all) the points he raises, and especially ones that have given me much food for thought, are:
1. Religion is treated with such deference and respect. Why is that? Why are we supposed to defer to the opinions and prejudices of men (never women) whose only schooling is in ancient books written in the deserts of Judea and Arabia? Why, in the name of 'multiculturalism,' do Muslim religious leaders, unelected so-called 'community leaders,' get to speak for their communities on all matters?
2. Religion cannot, does not, and ought not to dictate our morality. Letting religion completely overwhelm our own innate sense of right and wrong leads to such sickening evil as suicide bombers.
3. Religion cannot explain to us the origins of the universe, the origins of life, the evolution of life, or the fate of the universe. To sneak religion into life science classes (under the guise of creationism, or that misnomer 'intelligent design') is madness, like teaching alchemy in chemistry class, or astrology instead of proper astronomy.
4. Religion requires the suspension of reason. What else can lead millions of poor people to send every last cent to millionaires who go on TV and ask everyone to send them their money? And what else can lead otherwise sane, sometimes educated individuals to commit carnage, particularly suicide bombings?
There's much, much more. Read the book. Whatever your stance on the issue, you'll be glad you did!
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Your obviously in denial about the existance of God.......nice try anyway!
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Ah yes, way to argue an intellectual point... by resorting to thinly-veiled ad hominem...
And I think you meant to write "you're" and "existence."
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i'm gonna have to try to find that book............ thats exactly the way i'm thinking (right way)
i don't get it, why they keep saying it was creation when they have absolutely no proof!
we have scientific proof, evidences (damn, from 10 000s of years) and they keep saying that we are wrong... i guess all the dinosaurs was a hoax :-\
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According to people like "The Coach," dinosaur fossils are hoaxed perpetrated by no less a figure than God Almighty Himself: He planted them in nature to test our faith.
What a cruel trickster. Surely that great, true deity, our Lord, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, would never do such a thing.
May He bless you all with His noodly Appendage. RAmen.
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so all the comets and asteroids that comes to visit us every 10,000 years or so (that alone prove that the earth is older than 10,000 years old) and the one that kill all the dinausors are hoaxes.
damn :o just realised, adam & eve did it so noe will have more room for all the animals.......
don't tell me that god planted that too :-\ ..... of course the response will be something like that from all the big time religious people..... no open mind!, no other way, it's gotta be god.
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I read this AMAZING book over the course of the past week. I've been wanting to read it for months, but school got in the way.
It expands on the documentary "Root of All Evil?" that Dawkins made for British television. I highly recommend the documentary as well. Unfortunately it is no longer available on Youtube, but it is still on Google video. (Just search for Dawkins, it is bound to turn up in the first few results!)
Dawkins doesn't use the stinging rhetoric of Christopher Hitchens (See my other thread), but he does include a lot more science, from the origin of the universe, to the origins of life, to evolution and natural selection, to the grand, unifying theory of biology (namely, Darwinism).
Some (but by no means all) the points he raises, and especially ones that have given me much food for thought, are:
1. Religion is treated with such deference and respect. Why is that? Why are we supposed to defer to the opinions and prejudices of men (never women) whose only schooling is in ancient books written in the deserts of Judea and Arabia? Why, in the name of 'multiculturalism,' do Muslim religious leaders, unelected so-called 'community leaders,' get to speak for their communities on all matters?
2. Religion cannot, does not, and ought not to dictate our morality. Letting religion completely overwhelm our own innate sense of right and wrong leads to such sickening evil as suicide bombers.
3. Religion cannot explain to us the origins of the universe, the origins of life, the evolution of life, or the fate of the universe. To sneak religion into life science classes (under the guise of creationism, or that misnomer 'intelligent design') is madness, like teaching alchemy in chemistry class, or astrology instead of proper astronomy.
4. Religion requires the suspension of reason. What else can lead millions of poor people to send every last cent to millionaires who go on TV and ask everyone to send them their money? And what else can lead otherwise sane, sometimes educated individuals to commit carnage, particularly suicide bombings?
There's much, much more. Read the book. Whatever your stance on the issue, you'll be glad you did!
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Now you gotta read the "Dawkins Delusion" by Alister McGrath
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It's on my queue of books I want to read, but there's several books before it. I might not get to it for a few months.
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It's on my queue of books I want to read, but there's several books before it. I might not get to it for a few months.
There's some good short articles debating those like Dawkins, check out rzim.org (http://rzim.org)
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I looked around that site, C. There's not much on the issue, and at any rate it is a bit hard to navigate. I searched for "Dawkins" in their search engine, and only 19 results showed, almost all just mention Dawkins in passing. So I don't think it is immediately related to the issue. Is it?
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I looked around that site, C. There's not much on the issue, and at any rate it is a bit hard to navigate. I searched for "Dawkins" in their search engine, and only 19 results showed, almost all just mention Dawkins in passing. So I don't think it is immediately related to the issue. Is it?
Did you go to the resources section? There's a link to an actual debate between Dawkins and McGrath under the audio-visual section of the page.
www.rzim.org/resources/ (http://www.rzim.org/resources/)
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Thanks for the links. But it sounds to me that Dawkins is kicking ass!
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Thanks for the links. But it sounds to me that Dawkins is kicking ass!
But can you admit that you're listening from a biased standpoint? It's like listening to a debate between an Ohio State Alum vs. a Michigan alum, right? You're pulling for the OSU alum right out the gates, no matter where he sides on the issue, right? :P
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Not at all! I actually find the other guy quite sympathetic and nice to listen to!
He just argues for a 'space' (Read: magisterium) for religion, and that's fine if that's what he wants. He cannot counter points like 1-3 in my first post in this thread, and he actually agrees with Dawkins on most of them!
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Not at all! I actually find the other guy quite sympathetic and nice to listen to!
He just argues for a 'space' (Read: magisterium) for religion, and that's fine if that's what he wants. He cannot counter points like 1-3 in my first post in this thread, and he actually agrees with Dawkins on most of them!
But from a different perspective.
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BUMP for Richard Dawkins...
And before anyone asks, I haven't read any of the fleas...
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All of you are all delusional if you think that the creationest point of view is religious and your way of thinking isn't. They are both religious.
Thank you. I've tried to make this point many times. Faith is required regardless of which theory you believe in.
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Yes, modern science and "the talking-snake theory" are both religious and both require faith... sure.......
Please do yourself a favor and get a scientific education...
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All of you are all delusional if you think that the creationest point of view is religious and your way of thinking isn't. They are both religious. you believe there is proof that the earth is old when every single dating method is wrong. carbon dating has shown a bone to be 15 000 years old and another bone from the same structure to be 60 000 years old, actually this happens all the time.
potassium argon is barely considered circumstantial evidence and most scientist wouldn't even use this method.
The geological column is by far the most common way of measuring age and all this is a bunch of made up layers by man "say lets make this layer 20 000 years and this layer 50 000 year oh and this lets say 100 000 years" ; ya very accurate.
so please tell me how the hell is there proof that things are old is there other methods we don't know about because the methods I just mentioned can be riped apart by a freshman law student.
Well said, bro.
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Yes, modern science and "the talking-snake theory" are both religious and both require faith... sure.......
Please do yourself a favor and get a scientific education...
columbusdude82,
Why not address the points instead of insulting the poster's education? Did you not bump these old threads to encourage discussion? Well, you go it.
I have a bachelors degree in science and math, and I'm sure that many, if not all, Christians on the board have a scientific education too.
columbusdude82,
What about this guy? Does he need a scientific education too?
The Radiometric Dating Game
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating.html#Why%20methods%20in%20general%20are%20inaccurate
What about these Christians, do they need a scientific education?
American Scientific Affiliation
http://www.asa3.org/
Discovery Institute
http://www.discovery.org/
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Ah yes, the Discovery Institute... Michael Behe, of Dover trial fame... He has been thoroughly humiliated in the scientific community.
Of course, if you had read Dawkins' book, you would know that :)
So let's keep this thread on topic. Back to Dawkins' book!
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Ah yes, the Discovery Institute... Michael Behe, of Dover trial fame... He has been thoroughly humiliated in the scientific community.
Of course, if you had read Dawkins' book, you would know that :)
So let's keep this thread on topic. Back to Dawkins' book!
What about
The Radiometric Dating Game
http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating.html#Why%20methods%20in%20general%20are%20inaccurate
What about these Christians, do they need a scientific education?
American Scientific Affiliation
http://www.asa3.org/
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Similar replies to both. For the first, his credibility as an impartial source is destroyed when he says, for example,
The reliability of creationist sources is often questioned because those who write them are not always experts in the areas they write about. But I believe that their message is true, namely, God created the universe, the earth, and all that is in it, God created life on earth recently, and the earth since then has experienced a major catastrophe.
Would you still agree with that page if it had said, instead:
The reliability of Pastafarian creationist sources is often questioned because those who write them are not always experts in the areas they write about. But I believe that their message is true, namely, The Flying Spaghetti Monster created the universe, the earth, and all that is in it, The Flying Spaghetti Monster created life on earth recently, and the earth since then has experienced a major catastrophe.
As for asa3, I don't know what kind of research they conduct, but I sure hope it's better than Behe and the so-called Discovery Institute. At any rate, they have an agenda to push: just as I wouldn't trust the research results of tobacco companies on the effects of smoking, I wouldn't rely on anything asa3 say about Darwinism.
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OK now for real let's get this thread get back on topic. We have lots of other threads on here that run off topic.
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OK now for real let's get this thread get back on topic. We have lots of other threads on here that run off topic.
Okay.
"The soft atheists have it in for three bestselling authors in particular: Richard Dawkins (author of "The God Delusion"), Sam Harris ("Letter to a Christian Nation") and Christopher Hitchens ("God Is Not Great"). Though they differ on many points of scripture, all three are passionately antireligious. Mr. Dawkins considers God "a psychotic delinquent." The doomsayer Mr. Harris thinks religion will destroy the world if not stopped, and Mr. Hitchens holds that "religion poisons everything." Mr. Epstein finds these authors rigid and intolerant, which ultimately makes them no different from the religious fundamentalists they condemn. Nor is he alone. As one English dean told the Guardian, Mr. Dawkins is "just as fundamentalist as the people setting off bombs on the tube."
Harvard's E.O. Wilson, another secularist, has also criticized the New Atheists, and suggests their tone is alienating important faith groups whose help is needed to solve the world's problems. "I would suggest possibly that while there is use in the critiques by Dawkins and Harris, that they've overdone it," Mr. Wilson told the AP."
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=145343.msg2044871#msg2044871
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According to people like "The Coach," dinosaur fossils are hoaxed perpetrated by no less a figure than God Almighty Himself: He planted them in nature to test our faith.
What a cruel trickster. Surely that great, true deity, our Lord, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, would never do such a thing.
May He bless you all with His noodly Appendage. RAmen.
65 Million year old dinosaur soft tissues are hoaxed planted by Darwin to test the faith of his followers.
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I presume you have not read any of these books. If you had, you probably wouldn't agree with this review, or at least not all of it.
1. Sam Harris DOES say that religion may be the end of us. He explains it very clearly. Pakistan has a nuclear program. Iran will soon have one. The nuclear weapons of the former USSR are floating around. Muslim nutjobs who hate the West and think they are doing Allah's work when they kill infidels may get their hands on these bombs. The combination of the Koran and the Bomb may lead to disaster.
Do you agree or do you disagree?
2. Dawkins deals with the "you're just as fundamentalist" accusation in his book. (But you'd know that if you had read it. ;) ) He explains clearly the difference between being PASSIONATE about something, and being a fundamentalist about one's beliefs. RD is PASSIONATE and how could he not be? How can ANYONE not be ANGRY when they see young Children in Gaza being indoctrinated into the cult of suicide bombing and Jew hatred, or when they see the Catholic Church's cover-up of its child abuse scandal, or when they see the Christian Right in the USA prying into people's bedrooms and interfering in their choice to use contraception?
3. As for the accusation of RD being "just as fundamentalist as the people setting off bombs on the tube," whoever said that is an idiot. How many people has RD killed? How many people have gone out and killed because of something they read in RD's book? Does he encourage anyone to go out and kill? Sheer nonsense.
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I presume you have not read any of these books. If you had, you probably wouldn't agree with this review, or at least not all of it.
1. Sam Harris DOES say that religion may be the end of us. He explains it very clearly. Pakistan has a nuclear program. Iran will soon have one. The nuclear weapons of the former USSR are floating around. Muslim nutjobs who hate the West and think they are doing Allah's work when they kill infidels may get their hands on these bombs. The combination of the Koran and the Bomb may lead to disaster.
Do you agree or do you disagree?
2. Dawkins deals with the "you're just as fundamentalist" accusation in his book. (But you'd know that if you had read it. ;) ) He explains clearly the difference between being PASSIONATE about something, and being a fundamentalist about one's beliefs. RD is PASSIONATE and how could he not be? How can ANYONE not be ANGRY when they see young Children in Gaza being indoctrinated into the cult of suicide bombing and Jew hatred, or when they see the Catholic Church's cover-up of its child abuse scandal, or when they see the Christian Right in the USA prying into people's bedrooms and interfering in their choice to use contraception?
3. As for the accusation of RD being "just as fundamentalist as the people setting off bombs on the tube," whoever said that is an idiot. How many people has RD killed? How many people have gone out and killed because of something they read in RD's book? Does he encourage anyone to go out and kill? Sheer nonsense.
The people doing the criticism are not religious people, and they all read these books.
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Here's a novel idea. How about people who want to discuss (or dismiss) a book, read it first?
If no one else on here has read these best-seller books, then there is no point in having a discussion about them, is there?!
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Here's a novel idea. How about people who want to discuss (or dismiss) a book, read it first?
If no one else on here has read these best-seller books, then there is no point in having a discussion about them, is there?!
Excellent idea. How about people who want to discuss (or dismiss) the Bible, read it first?
There are way too many people on this board making false statements about the Bible, like
God may have simply been testing Abraham's faith, but he wanted Jephthah to kill his own daughter for God!!!
If he doesn't want anyone to perish, why does his "Son" (also himself) tell his followers to kill those who deny him, in Luke 19:27?
Israel stole the Amalekites' land
None of the above are true and anyone who has read the Bible knows this.
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The first of those was statements was sarcastic, as I have told you before.
The second, if I'm wrong, do forgive me. All those names blur together. I had the Midianites in mind.
As for the third, it says so right there in the Bible ;) Read it yourself.
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As for the third, it says so right there in the Bible ;) Read it yourself.
Be more specific and we'll discuss. ;)
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The first of those was statements was sarcastic, as I have told you before.
The second, if I'm wrong, do forgive me. All those names blur together. I had the Midianites in mind.
As for the third, it says so right there in the Bible ;) Read it yourself.
columbusdude82,
You falsely said
If he doesn't want anyone to perish, why does his "Son" (also himself) tell his followers to kill those who deny him, in Luke 19:27?
To which I said
No. Jesus did not tell his followers to kill those who deny him. The one who said that was the man in the story that Jesus told.
To that you then said
Yes, loco, I did go to Catholic school, you know ;)
But to the nutjob out there who wants to use scripture to convince his "sheep" to kill, such contextual concerns won't matter much, will they.
So which is it, columbusdude82? You keep going back and forth with your false testimonies about Jesus.
Let me tell you what Jesus really said about those who deny him.
Luke 9:53-55
but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them
Luke 22:49-51
When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.
Luke 23:33-34
When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Matthew 5:44
"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
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I see no contradiction. I care no more about what Jesus really said, is reported to have said, or did not say than I do about any other figure from ancient history and mythology.
I went to Catholic school. I know all the standard answers and arguments, and I'm bored with them. I'm bored with Jesus and his cranky "father," not to mention his prudish sex-deprived taco-appearing mother.
I also know that the nutjob fundamentalist won't stop at tiny matters of quotation marks when he wants to use scripture to justify his sordid goals.
Now back to Dawkins.
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I see no contradiction. I care no more about what Jesus really said, is reported to have said, or did not say than I do about any other figure from ancient history and mythology.
I went to Catholic school. I know all the standard answers and arguments, and I'm bored with them. I'm bored with Jesus and his cranky "father," not to mention his prudish sex-deprived taco-appearing mother.
I also know that the nutjob fundamentalist won't stop at tiny matters of quotation marks when he wants to use scripture to justify his sordid goals.
Now back to Dawkins.
You see no contradiction? You just won't admit that you are either lying or you simply don't know the Bible as much as you say you do. You are making false statements about Jesus. Again, yours is a good idea. Why not read the book before you comment on it or before you dismiss it?
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If that's what you need to tell yourself, by all means...:)
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If that's what you need to tell yourself, by all means...:)
Okay. :)
You can read, columbusdude82, can't you? So please do show me where Jesus says to his disciples that they should kill all those who deny Jesus?
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Luke 19:27 ;)
BTW I haven't read the Book of Mormon, but I heard from people that in it, the resurrected Jesus goes to America and puts lots of people to death.
Anyone know if this is true?
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Luke 19:27 ;)
BTW I haven't read the Book of Mormon, but I heard from people that in it, the resurrected Jesus goes to America and puts lots of people to death.
Anyone know if this is true?
No. Jesus did not tell his followers to kill those who deny him. The one who said that was the man in the story that Jesus told.
Luke 19:11-27
The Parable of the Ten Minas
11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable, because he was near Jerusalem and the people thought that the kingdom of God was going to appear at once. 12He said: "A man of noble birth went to a distant country to have himself appointed king and then to return. 13So he called ten of his servants and gave them ten minas.[a]'Put this money to work,' he said, 'until I come back.'
14"But his subjects hated him and sent a delegation after him to say, 'We don't want this man to be our king.'
15"He was made king, however, and returned home. Then he sent for the servants to whom he had given the money, in order to find out what they had gained with it.
16"The first one came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned ten more.'
17" 'Well done, my good servant!' his master replied. 'Because you have been trustworthy in a very small matter, take charge of ten cities.'
18"The second came and said, 'Sir, your mina has earned five more.'
19"His master answered, 'You take charge of five cities.'
20"Then another servant came and said, 'Sir, here is your mina; I have kept it laid away in a piece of cloth. 21I was afraid of you, because you are a hard man. You take out what you did not put in and reap what you did not sow.'
22"His master replied, 'I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow? 23Why then didn't you put my money on deposit, so that when I came back, I could have collected it with interest?'
24"Then he said to those standing by, 'Take his mina away from him and give it to the one who has ten minas.'
25" 'Sir,' they said, 'he already has ten!'
26"He replied, 'I tell you that to everyone who has, more will be given, but as for the one who has nothing, even what he has will be taken away. 27But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me."
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Yeah, we went over that. Now if you want to continue obsessing over Luke 19:27 start another thread for it, and keep this thread on topic.
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The first of those was statements was sarcastic, as I have told you before.
The second, if I'm wrong, do forgive me. All those names blur together. I had the Midianites in mind.
As for the third, it says so right there in the Bible ;) Read it yourself.
columbusdude82,
You falsely said
If he doesn't want anyone to perish, why does his "Son" (also himself) tell his followers to kill those who deny him, in Luke 19:27?
To which I said
No. Jesus did not tell his followers to kill those who deny him. The one who said that was the man in the story that Jesus told.
To that you then said
Yes, loco, I did go to Catholic school, you know ;)
But to the nutjob out there who wants to use scripture to convince his "sheep" to kill, such contextual concerns won't matter much, will they.
So which is it, columbusdude82? You keep going back and forth with your false testimonies about Jesus.
Let me tell you what Jesus really said about those who deny him.
Luke 9:53-55
but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them
Luke 22:49-51
When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.
Luke 23:33-34
When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Matthew 5:44
"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
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I am not going back and forth. You are going back and forth on my words.
Go back and read my posts on the matter. Apparently it falls to me to teach you about your religion.
My point about Luke 19:27 is that when a book is taken literally, and verses are quoted in their own right, as the Word of God, that verse really does stand out. Anyone can take it out of context.
Now before you make Jesus out to be a cuddly teddy bear type, remember Mark 3: 28-29:
"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
and Matthew 12:32
"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."
Since I have already denied the so-called "Spirit" long ago, it matters not at all if Jesus in Luke 19:27 wants me dead or not.
If Christianity were true, I'd be screwed either way.
Fortunately, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the one true deity and He's got my back! :)
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I am not going back and forth. You are going back and forth on my words.
Go back and read my posts on the matter. Apparently it falls to me to teach you about your religion.
My point about Luke 19:27 is that when a book is taken literally, and verses are quoted in their own right, as the Word of God, that verse really does stand out. Anyone can take it out of context.
Now before you make Jesus out to be a cuddly teddy bear type, remember Mark 3: 28-29:
"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."
and Matthew 12:32
"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."
Since I have already denied the so-called "Spirit" long ago, it matters not at all if Jesus in Luke 19:27 wants me dead or not.
If Christianity were true, I'd be screwed either way.
Fortunately, the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the one true deity and He's got my back! :)
Jesus is not a cuddly teddy bear. There, now stop avoiding the issue and give an honest answer. What you just posted has nothing to do with your original claim.
You said that Jesus told his disciples to kill anyone who denies him. You have made an accusation and a claim. Back it up.
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Suppose a preacher for a little psycho-Christian cult in backwoods Alabama says (in thick Southern twang):
Now the Bible says in Luke 19:27 "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me." It says so right there in the Bible, that we are to KILL all of those who don't want the Lord Jesus to be king over them. O Praise Jesus!...
Suppose those people are already primed for hate, like so many of God's chosen ones. Naturally, they aren't ones to question scripture or authority. They won't have you on hand to guide them.
It's right there, in the Bible. Can you deny it?
You can only tell them your interpretation. They can argue that their interpretation is right. They are the nuts. They have the guns. They think they got Jesus.
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Suppose a preacher for a little psycho-Christian cult in backwoods Alabama says (in thick Southern twang):
Suppose those people are already primed for hate, like so many of God's chosen ones. Naturally, they aren't ones to question scripture or authority. They won't have you on hand to guide them.
It's right there, in the Bible. Can you deny it?
You can only tell them your interpretation. They can argue that their interpretation is right. They are the nuts. They have the guns. They think they got Jesus.
11While they were listening to this, he went on to tell them a parable,
It is clear that Jesus was telling a parable. There is no interpretation needed.
You keep beating around the bush and avoiding the question. You made a serious accusation. Back it up.
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Telling a parable, you say? No such thing is clear.
Were you there? Did you check to say they copied everything he said right? Were there scribes writing down things as he said them?
It's likely that Jesus never said any such thing to begin with.
If you choose to continue hijacking this thread, I will be forced to make another one for the book.
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Telling a parable, you say? No such thing is clear.
Were you there? Did you check to say they copied everything he said right? Were there scribes writing down things as he said them?
It's likely that Jesus never said any such thing to begin with.
If you choose to continue hijacking this thread, I will be forced to make another one for the book.
Now you are changing the subject. We can discuss the accuracy and reliability of the gospels if you wish. But the truth is that what is written there is written, and it is what Christians go by.
You made a serious accusation that the Christian holy text says that Jesus told his disciples to kill anyone who denies him.
I am not playing games and I am not trying to hijack this thread. You made a serious accusation. Now, have the honesty and the decency to back it up and I'll leave your Duck tread alone.
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If I cared, that would be my reading of Luke 19:27. The original writers didn't have quotation marks, and it is a reasonable reading.
You can dig up the thread in which I first brought up Luke 19:27, but the discussion about that in this thread is closed.
Jesus is dead, he isn't coming back, and none of his threats can scare me :)
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If I cared, that would be my reading of Luke 19:27. The original writers didn't have quotation marks, and it is a reasonable reading.
You can dig up the thread in which I first brought up Luke 19:27, but the discussion about that in this thread is closed.
Jesus is dead, he isn't coming back, and none of his threats can scare me :)
I threatened you? With what? I have no intentions of threatening you and there is nothing that I can do to you anyway.
So, Jesus is dead, he isn't coming back and this makes it okay for you to tell lies and makes false statements about him? Is this what becoming an atheist is doing to your moral compass? Now being deceptive is okay?
You made a false, dishonest accusation. Of all the people that I have debated on this board for the past year, you are the first. Is that really necessary? Do you have to resort to deception to make your points and to "win" a debate?
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Jesus is dead, he isn't coming back, and none of his threats can scare me
I threatened you?
Why do you have to lie?
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Why do you have to lie?
What? Have you now lost your marbles?
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So, Jesus is dead, he isn't coming back and this makes it okay for you to tell lies and makes false statements about him? Is this what becoming an atheist is doing to your moral compass? Now being deceptive is okay?
You made a false, dishonest accusation. Of all the people that I have debated on this board for the past year, you are the first. Is that really necessary? Do you have to resort to deception to make your points and to "win" a debate?
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You can dig up the thread in which I first brought up Luke 19:27, but the discussion about that in this thread is closed.
Yeah, we went over that. Now if you want to continue obsessing over Luke 19:27 start another thread for it, and keep this thread on topic.
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The first of those was statements was sarcastic, as I have told you before.
The second, if I'm wrong, do forgive me. All those names blur together. I had the Midianites in mind.
As for the third, it says so right there in the Bible ;) Read it yourself.
columbusdude82,
You falsely said
If he doesn't want anyone to perish, why does his "Son" (also himself) tell his followers to kill those who deny him, in Luke 19:27?
To which I said
No. Jesus did not tell his followers to kill those who deny him. The one who said that was the man in the story that Jesus told.
To that you then said
Yes, loco, I did go to Catholic school, you know ;)
But to the nutjob out there who wants to use scripture to convince his "sheep" to kill, such contextual concerns won't matter much, will they.
So which is it, columbusdude82? You keep going back and forth with your false testimonies about Jesus.
Let me tell you what Jesus really said about those who deny him.
Luke 9:53-55
but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" But Jesus turned and rebuked them
Luke 22:49-51
When Jesus' followers saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, should we strike with our swords?" And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, "No more of this!" And he touched the man's ear and healed him.
Luke 23:33-34
When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left. Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."
Matthew 5:44
"But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you"
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[Beach Bum scribbling on note pad]
"Note to self: Do not under any circumstances make false claims on Religious Discussion Board to loco. He is a pit bull."
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Who made a false claim ???
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[Beach Bum scribbling on note pad]
"Note to self: Do not under any circumstances make false claims on Religious Discussion Board to loco. He is a pit bull."
;D
(http://www.pitbullguide.com/rope3.jpg)
Beach Bum,
I would not mind if columbusdude82 had made a false statement out of ignorance or from making an honest mistake, but he has been caught three times making stuff up about the Bible and about Jesus. He is trying to make people believe that Jesus taught hate and violence, when all Jesus really did was teach love and peace. columbusdude82 is purposely using deception to persuade anyone, believer or not, who does not know the Bible. He is well aware that if you repeat a lie enough times, people who don't know better will actually believe it. I'm just calling him to truth.
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I told you already that some of what I say is sarcasm. Perhaps I should throw in more smileys. I don't care what people think about Jesus and his teachings, any more than Alexander the Great or Hercules.
If you ever want to continue that discussion, please follow the instructions above. :)
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;D
(http://www.pitbullguide.com/rope3.jpg)
Beach Bum,
I would not mind if columbusdude82 had made a false statement out of ignorance or from making an honest mistake, but he has been caught three times making stuff up about the Bible and about Jesus. He is trying to make people believe that Jesus taught hate and violence, when all Jesus really did was teach love and peace. columbusdude82 is purposely using deception to persuade anyone, believer or not, who does not know the Bible. He is well aware that if you repeat a lie enough times, people who don't know better will actually believe it. I'm just calling him to truth.
lol. Who let the dogs out?! :D
I haven't read all of these threads, but columbus did misstate the content of Luke 19:27.
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I think columbusdude hates his life and is looking to lash out at anyone.Because Christians are easy targets and he feels that God has screwed him,he comes here trying to make himself feel better.Look at yourself and your life first before blaming others.
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I think columbusdude hates his life and is looking to lash out at anyone.Because Christians are easy targets and he feels that God has screwed him,he comes here trying to make himself feel better.Look at yourself and your life first before blaming others.
Thanks for your insightful psychoanalysis, but my life is fine, thank you :)
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stop lying.no need to here..........believe it or not,after all this God loves you still.Yet u have turned your back on him.
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Thanks bro.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster loves you right back!
May He bless you with His Noodly Appendage. RAmen. 8)