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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: bodybuildermdpitt on June 22, 2007, 05:41:26 PM
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
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Yeah me too....... ;D
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im brad pitt
really i am
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im brad pitt
really i am
And I'm Arnold Schwarzenegger. Please do not bombard me with PM's. ;D
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
Since you're a doctor, you should probably recognize that hypertensive emergencies are defined by the presence of end-organ damage. Significantly elevated BP without end-organ damage constitutes hypertensive urgency. ;) And, yes, I agree with others--this post sounds a little fishy. It doesn't read like it has been written by a true health care professional. And even if this guy really is a GI surgeon (which I seriously doubt), he would not be in any position to make authoritative statements on a renal topic. You learn very little about glomerulonephropathies in medical school or in any of the training that would be required to become a GI surgeon.
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
best gimmick ever
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
Hi Flex
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Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use.
True, other than the damage anabolic steroids did to Flex's kidneys due to increases in blood pressure. Diuretics and possible recreational drug abuse more than likely contributed the most. If Flex did have a genetic condition and continued to compete, that makes him more irresponsible, not less.
Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium.
Epic rationalizing monster drug abuse. LOW DOSES of testosterone may be good, as it is good for a lot of things, but ABUSE of testosterone is not.
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
Hi Flex.
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Since you're a doctor, you should probably recognize that hypertensive emergencies are defined by the presence of end-organ damage. Significantly elevated BP without end-organ damage constitutes hypertensive urgency. ;) And, yes, I agree with others--this post sounds a little fishy. It doesn't read like it has been written by a true health care professional. And even if this guy really is a GI surgeon (which I seriously doubt), he would not be in any position to make authoritative statements on a renal topic. You learn very little about glomerulonephropathies in medical school or in any of the training that would be required to become a GI surgeon.
I am not trying to give any medical advice. However, my Radoncdoc buddy, when I did rotate through transplant, we always taught to view any transplanted organ as a failing organ, hence the use "emergency" and not "urgency." I don't know what year you took your steps, I took them in the early 90s, nephrology was a pretty heavily tested topic. By the way, I really feel for you guys if the Dems come to power. 33% projected decrease in compensation for radiation oncologists.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
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I am not trying to give any medical advice. However, my Radoncdoc buddy, when I did rotate through transplant, we always taught to view any transplanted organ as a failing organ, hence the use "emergency" and not "urgency." I don't know what year you took your steps, I took them in the early 90s, nephrology was a pretty heavily tested topic. By the way, I really feel for you guys if the Dems come to power. 33% projected decrease in compensation for radiation oncologists.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
Democratic economic policy = not having a clue.
Michael Moore: "Get the profit motive out of medicine."
Modern medicine wouldn't be where it is today without the profit motive. ::) Hope this helps.
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I am not trying to give any medical advice. However, my Radoncdoc buddy, when I did rotate through transplant, we always taught to view any transplanted organ as a failing organ, hence the use "emergency" and not "urgency." I don't know what year you took your steps, I took them in the early 90s, nephrology was a pretty heavily tested topic. By the way, I really feel for you guys if the Dems come to power. 33% projected decrease in compensation for radiation oncologists.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
Are you familiar with the damage caused by abuse, not use, abuse of oral steroids and diuretics on the kidneys and liver? How would/could that factor in this case or Don Long's or Tom Prince's? The only constant other than they are all bodybuilders is Chad Nichols.
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Are you familiar with the damage caused by abuse, not use, abuse of oral steroids and diuretics on the kidneys and liver? How would/could that factor in this case or Don Long's or Tom Prince's? The only constant other than they are all bodybuilders is Chad Nichols.
Mercury based diuretics.
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True, other than the damage anabolic steroids did to Flex's kidneys due to increases in blood pressure. Diuretics and possible recreational drug abuse more than likely contributed the most. If Flex did have a genetic condition and continued to compete, that makes him more irresponsible, not less.
Epic rationalizing monster drug abuse. LOW DOSES of testosterone may be good, as it is good for a lot of things, but ABUSE of testosterone is not.
Hi Flex.
True, other than the damage anabolic steroids did to Flex's kidneys due to increases in blood pressure. Diuretics and possible recreational drug abuse more than likely contributed the most. If Flex did have a genetic condition and continued to compete, that makes him more irresponsible, not less.
Epic rationalizing monster drug abuse. LOW DOSES of testosterone may be good, as it is good for a lot of things, but ABUSE of testosterone is not.
Hi Flex.
I agree with everything you are saying, I am not rationalizing or advocating anabolic steroid use. However, if you do look at the new literature coming out, especially when dealing with end stage renal disease patients, HIGH dose anabolic steroids is actually showing some renal protective effects. However, you are correct in stating that high levels of testosterone does cause hypertension and more importantly, in Flex's case, it can cause an increase in artherosclerosis (although this is still a grey zone topic, since I have yet to see a conclusive study proving this). Which along with his hypercoaguable state, due to his nephrotic disease, he could have a superimposed secondary hypertension due to unoppossed renin secretion. Good luck in trying to find a urologist or vascular surgeon for that matter who will stent a transplanted kidney.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
Do you think drug use or diuretics could have hastened his misfortune?
I briefly checked emedicine http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic2944.htm and it states
"Causes: FSGS is considered primary or idiopathic when no etiology can be identified. Secondary FSGS is associated with illicit drug use, HIV and other viral infections, and many diverse factors, such as infections, inflammations, toxins, and intrarenal hemodynamic alterations".
Maybe a person could acquire this from an infection from needle or synthol etc. Maybe something like DNP could have triggered a predispostion or actually caused this? Maybe aromatized estrogenic hormones perform the reverse function that testosterone appears to do (as you stated a possible helpful effect of testosterone). I am not convinced that drug use could not damage the kidneys in such a way or hasten a predispostion. Drugs can certainly be seen as toxins.
I would not trust your opinion unless you were a board certified nephrologist j/k.
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Mercury based diuretics.
Not to step on anybody toes, but that is not the complete story with Tom Prince. I am not familiar with Don Long's case, so I can not comment on that. Tom Prince's problems actually occured from chronic anelgesic use. From what I hear, he took anelgesics like candy. Taking anelgesics is going to cause renal papillary necrosis and tubulointerstitial nephritis. I believe this is what caused his kidneys to fail. This is only my theory, the only one that really knows is his doctor.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
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I am not trying to give any medical advice. However, my Radoncdoc buddy, when I did rotate through transplant, we always taught to view any transplanted organ as a failing organ, hence the use "emergency" and not "urgency." I don't know what year you took your steps, I took them in the early 90s, nephrology was a pretty heavily tested topic. By the way, I really feel for you guys if the Dems come to power. 33% projected decrease in compensation for radiation oncologists.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
are you the guy who goes by Pittdoc or something like that on Mayhem?
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Hi Flex
Shit, you beat me to it..... ;D
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Hey Doc, how would multiple bottles of Nubain every week, along with those analgesics factor into Prince's misfortune?
Nubain is a narcotic. The risk for addiction and sedation are going to be a much bigger concern than your renal functions. In terms of physiologic effects, I am not quite sure. I am also not sure how somebody could train that intensely with all the sedation that Nubain causes. Prince really played the size game and I am sure he was pushing up massive numbers. I would be much more concerned about having a seizure or feeling sedated with 500 pounds above me than my renal function.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
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I'm John McClain. I'll never die
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
1. You might be a doc, but do you lift? You understand that for Flex to compete again he actually has to lift weights right? How in the world can someone lift weights with keeping their bp that low?! Even moderate leg or back lifts would take it beyond that...
2. Again, if you're really a doc....got residency hook ups??? ;D
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Nubain is a narcotic. The risk for addiction and sedation are going to be a much bigger concern than your renal functions. In terms of physiologic effects, I am not quite sure. I am also not sure how somebody could train that intensely with all the sedation that Nubain causes. Prince really played the size game and I am sure he was pushing up massive numbers. I would be much more concerned about having a seizure or feeling sedated with 500 pounds above me than my renal function.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
Oh believe you in me, you can train hard as hell while on bain.
Hey doc take a look at the Bethany Carter Howlett thread, is that a transgender?
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1. You might be a doc, but do you lift? You understand that for Flex to compete again he actually has to lift weights right? How in the world can someone lift weights with keeping their bp that low?! Even moderate leg or back lifts would take it beyond that...
2. Again, if you're really a doc....got residency hook ups??? ;D
I think you are confusing acute changes in BP with causing renal failure. When one lifts weights, your blood pressure is acutely raised, it is not raised throughout the day. If BP stayed at the level during weight lifting, every single one of us would have renal failure. There are defintely some acute pathologies that may occur, in Flex's case, he may be at high risk for stroke, especially if he has underlying nephrotic disease which intrinsically causes a hypercoaguble state. However, going back to your question, he should be able to keep his BP low, if he has a good physician overseeing his care. Sadly, he will most likely go to a "Guru," who may know a lot about anabolic steroids, but have no idea about patient care.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
ps. I am done posting for the night, there is a case about to come in...
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a case of budwiser?
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
Can you please tell us who first nicknamed you 'Flex'?
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Hello everybody,
I have been reading this forum for a while, usually for laughter on night call. However, I want to clear up a knowledge gap in this forum. Flex's kidney failure had nothing to do with anabolic steroid use. The poor guy actually suffered from Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. This disease is actually quite common in the African American population; interestingly enough it is also common in HIV patients and IV drug users. This is a nephrotic disease that causes sclerosis of the glomerulor tuft. Interestingly enough, the latest literature is actually showing some renal protective effects of testosterone, especially of the tubular epithelium. The pathophysiology behind that is actually quite interesting, but that is another topic by itself. Going back to Flex, if he wants to compete, he proabably could without any long term effects. He should have his BUN/Cr measured religiously, and more imporatantly he should have his BP under control. At least below 135/75, to prevent end organ damage of his remaining kidney. This is going to be his biggest concern, since if he is still on immunosuppressants, epecially if he is on either tacrolimus or cyclosporin (both of which can cause BP emergencies : which is bascially a BP over 200/110). I wish Flex the best, and I hope this post clears up any misinformation. I will try to answer any questions if you guys have any. Unfortunately I am on call tonight.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
and yes I am a doctor, actually a board certified GI surgeon to be exact ;)
Okay, I have some questions.
1. High protein diets seem to be the norm in bodybuilding circles. Presumably Flex has been advised to maintain a protein-restricted diet. Can he "safely" resume a bodybuilding diet.
2. This is completely unrelated to the original topic, but since we're both healtcare practitioners, I'll bring it up anyway: hypertensive emergency implies acute end-organ damage requiring immediate IV anit-hypertensive therapy. You seem to be implying that any BP elevation in someone with chronic renal failure implies hypertensive emergency. I don't think this is the case. If a person with chronic renal failure has an acute exacerbation on top of chronic renal failure and this exacerbation is due to significantly elevated BP, then that would constitute a hypertensive emergency. However, a mildly elevated BP in someone with CRF is not a hypertensive emergency. Do we treat all mildely hypertensive CRFers with IV labetolol?
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It's TexasBlubber again, Lee Thompson ;D
NO DAMMIT! It's his brother -in-law..... ;D
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doctors suck. They aren't smart. They are only capable of remembering a lot of information to past tests but thats about it, not much analytical or problem solving intelligence. I have met a lot of doctors and they are not smart people. Some are of course but most are not. They are not well rounded or well read. Most of them do standard diagnosis and apply standard protocols that have already been laid out by other doctors and researchers. They do nothing new or challenging. Architects, Engineers, and some types of Lawyers are much smarter overall than doctors.
Doctors are in it for the money too, how many really give a shit about the state of health care in the US. None of them are mobilized to do anything to change it. They just want to show up and get paid. Thats about it.
How many of you have had a doctor run in and out in 5 minutes, and if you try to pin them down to answer your questions they get annoyed. We all have.
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I'm John McClain. I'll never die
Actually, it's John McClane. But who gives a shit, right? ;D
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reality check to the author of this topic.
if u think anabolic steroids, the unhealthy diet needed to be a pro bodybuilder (such high protien and high calories), was not the cause of his kidney failure....then u are seriously deluded.
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doctors suck. They aren't smart. They are only capable of remembering a lot of information to past tests but thats about it, not much analytical or problem solving intelligence. I have met a lot of doctors and they are not smart people. Some are of course but most are not. They are not well rounded or well read. Most of them do standard diagnosis and apply standard protocols that have already been laid out by other doctors and researchers. They do nothing new or challenging. Architects, Engineers, and some types of Lawyers are much smarter overall than doctors.
Doctors are in it for the money too, how many really give a shit about the state of health care in the US. None of them are mobilized to do anything to change it. They just want to show up and get paid. Thats about it.
How many of you have had a doctor run in and out in 5 minutes, and if you try to pin them down to answer your questions they get annoyed. We all have.
The bolded portion of your quote is very true. Architects engineers etc, have never impressed me. Those with PhD's and a varied educational background can be pretty insightful. Unfortunately there are idiots who attain doctoral degrees (both clinical and educational). I think it should all be taken on a case by case basis. There are about as many smart people as there are those with good physiques.
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No
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reality check to the author of this topic.
if u think anabolic steroids, the unhealthy diet needed to be a pro bodybuilder (such high protien and high calories), was not the cause of his kidney failure....then u are seriously deluded.
This is just simply not the case. Anabolic steroids and high protein diets have become the scape goats for an easy answer. I will answer try to answer your questions the best I can. This is simply my opinion, please do not assume I am giving medical advice, because ethically I will not do so. I am basing this off of 18 years in the medical field, and 20 years of being involved in the fitness industry. I completed a 5 year residency in General Surgery in an academic center. I have asked Nephrologists, transplant surgeons, and even a cardiologist, to show me one case of which anabolic steroids or high protein diets have caused a sequela of renal or even heart failure. I was not trying to defend steroid or high protein diet use, I just really wanted to learn more about it. You know how many cases I learned about, ready for this, not even one. Surely there must be one case, but not even one. For the sake of science, the population must realize that yes anabolic steroids can have negative sequela, BUT they are not primarily responsible for most of the pathologies (renal failure, heart failure, however, I do agree, if taken orally a lot of them will destroy your liver, but not as bad as alcohol) you guys are associating them with, and actually high protein diets are actually GOOD for the body (find a me paper published in a high power medical journal, which states otherwise). And for my radiation oncologist fellow, I am sure you have access to Pub med or even Ovid, go find me one well written article which has a high power. If you do please post the title, I would be interested in reading it. I can not find one, but it would be great because discourse in this subject is good. The population has to understand that taking anabolic steroids will not kill you FIRST, drinking 15 beers and eating a carb filled garbage diet will do much more damage than anabolics. I realize that I have not addressed the idea that high protein diets are bad for the health. This is simply not true, there is not one paper with a a high enough power, which has come to a statistically significant power to prove this. It is very easy to justify your shortcomings on a lack of knowledge, I suggest all of you who believe otherwise get access to Pub Med and please prove me wrong. I am actually serious, it would be great if could have some proper scientific discourse.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
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I am an american and canadian board certified general surgeon working in Canada.
Firstly, if you have any questions on the matter have nicorulez join this thread, he is board certified nephrologist.
Secondly, assuming that general surgeons don't know shit about kidney failure is just ignorant. Who do you think did the majority of kidney transplants before urologists got interested in it. And, where I practice the urologists (who are more interested in doing 100 cystoscopies at 100 bucks a pop, than getting called in at 2am to do a 5 hour (donor + recipient) surgery) are less than thrilled about transplant surgery.
Finally, Flex is a moron for thinking about competing again. The Roids, HGH, massive amounts of protein and the immunosuppressants he is on (Tacrolimus and Prednisone probably) = certain death.
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This is just simply not the case. Anabolic steroids and high protein diets have become the scape goats for an easy answer. I will answer try to answer your questions the best I can. This is simply my opinion, please do not assume I am giving medical advice, because ethically I will not do so. I am basing this off of 18 years in the medical field, and 20 years of being involved in the fitness industry. I completed a 5 year residency in General Surgery in an academic center. I have asked Nephrologists, transplant surgeons, and even a cardiologist, to show me one case of which anabolic steroids or high protein diets have caused a sequela of renal or even heart failure. I was not trying to defend steroid or high protein diet use, I just really wanted to learn more about it. You know how many cases I learned about, ready for this, not even one. Surely there must be one case, but not even one. For the sake of science, the population must realize that yes anabolic steroids can have negative sequela, BUT they are not primarily responsible for most of the pathologies (renal failure, heart failure, however, I do agree, if taken orally a lot of them will destroy your liver, but not as bad as alcohol) you guys are associating them with, and actually high protein diets are actually GOOD for the body (find a me paper published in a high power medical journal, which states otherwise). And for my radiation oncologist fellow, I am sure you have access to Pub med or even Ovid, go find me one well written article which has a high power. If you do please post the title, I would be interested in reading it. I can not find one, but it would be great because discourse in this subject is good. The population has to understand that taking anabolic steroids will not kill you FIRST, drinking 15 beers and eating a carb filled garbage diet will do much more damage than anabolics. I realize that I have not addressed the idea that high protein diets are bad for the health. This is simply not true, there is not one paper with a a high enough power, which has come to a statistically significant power to prove this. It is very easy to justify your shortcomings on a lack of knowledge, I suggest all of you who believe otherwise get access to Pub Med and please prove me wrong. I am actually serious, it would be great if could have some proper scientific discourse.
cheers,
bodybuildermdpitt
What is your opinion on the use of drugs such as DNP and other accessories on Focal Segmental Glomerulosclerosis. I am sure the verdict is still out on AAS effect on the kidneys (this is the way it seems to be in research, if there is research on this topic). I will not even bother to check Pubmed as this is the conclusion that will probably be reached, unless you find otherwise. I am surprised you seem to be totally ruling AAS it out as a possible cause of kidney issues.
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Competitive Bodybuilding is a waste of time. I think i will continue to look like a fullback football player.................. .......chicks dig it. :)
The gear should be replaced with beer and pizza on the weekends......eat clean on weekdays only.
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Mercury based diuretics.
which dieuretics are mercury based?
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I am an american and canadian board certified general surgeon working in Canada.
Firstly, if you have any questions on the matter have nicorulez join this thread, he is board certified nephrologist.
Secondly, assuming that general surgeons don't know shit about kidney failure is just ignorant. Who do you think did the majority of kidney transplants before urologists got interested in it. And, where I practice the urologists (who are more interested in doing 100 cystoscopies at 100 bucks a pop, than getting called in at 2am to do a 5 hour (donor + recipient) surgery) are less than thrilled about transplant surgery.
Finally, Flex is a moron for thinking about competing again. The Roids, HGH, massive amounts of protein and the immunosuppressants he is on (Tacrolimus and Prednisone probably) = certain death.
I certainly wasn't saying that a general surgeon wouldn't know something about renal failure. However, my guess is that general surgeons are more versed in the surgical aspects of nephrology (how to do a nephrectomy, post-op care, etc) and would be less likely to be in a position to comment on the specific medical aspects of the glomerulonephropathies. This would be the domain of a nephrologist. And I wouldn't take that as a knock against general surgeons; hell, most board-certified internists other than nephrologists would probably have a hard time even naming all of glomerulonephropathies, let alone medically managing them. General internists just aren't doing this any more. When a patient presents with new-onset RF, nephrotic syndrome, nephritic syndrome, etc. most people just consult nephrology.
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I am Spartacus! >:(
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doctors suck. They aren't smart. They are only capable of remembering a lot of information to past tests but thats about it, not much analytical or problem solving intelligence. I have met a lot of doctors and they are not smart people. Some are of course but most are not.
The doctors in this thread seem very smart!
which dieuretics are mercury based?
No idea. That's just what I heard.
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I thought diuretics were what fucked Flex's kidneys because he would always blow his diet and then OD on Lasix try and fix it at the last min. Diuretics mess up your kidneys right???
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Nice to see some new docs posting here. Don't mind the haters. Some of the high school kids on here don't believe you are a doc even if you post you're registration details. I tried to explain how the advil was far more harmfull to Prince than the anabolics a few years ago. Some tookit in, others refuse to believe what they don't want to hear.
regards,
the Doc :)
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I thought diuretics were what fucked Flex's kidneys because he would always blow his diet and then OD on Lasix try and fix it at the last min. Diuretics mess up your kidneys right???
yes- lack of hydration in general is bad for renal function
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ok so Flex screwed up his kidneys with diuretics - as did Prince, Long, Ray Mentzer, Etc....where's the arguement here?
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which dieuretics are mercury based?
Chad's secret diuretic was mercury based. Said so himself. No one seemed to figure out what it was exactly though. It was a drug taken off the market a long time ago.
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Nice to see some new docs posting here. Don't mind the haters. Some of the high school kids on here don't believe you are a doc even if you post you're registration details. I tried to explain how the advil was far more harmfull to Prince than the anabolics a few years ago. Some tookit in, others refuse to believe what they don't want to hear.
regards,
the Doc :)
IYO, would there be any reason for Prince to take massive doses of Advil if he was already on a lot of IV narcotics? Wouldn't 'bain be enough to mask pain? I suspect the Advil was a scapegoat but who knows for sure.
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funny how individuals with "congenital" kidney, liver, and heart disorders gravitate toward bodybuilding....
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hello flex where is the ninja story you promised
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funny how individuals with "congenital" kidney, liver, and heart disorders gravitate toward bodybuilding....
dumb luck, I guess?
you'll also note their strong ability to not succumb to the water dehydration and high intake of toxins.
incredible.
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IYO, would there be any reason for Prince to take massive doses of Advil if he was already on a lot of IV narcotics? Wouldn't 'bain be enough to mask pain? I suspect the Advil was a scapegoat but who knows for sure.
reasonable point. I'm not sure we know the facts re 'bain use and tom. Advil is a good drug for joint pain eg sore elbows, which tom suffered from. They are best used on a regular basis but not for long periods. Tom took too many for too long.