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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: UK Gold on July 04, 2007, 01:41:33 AM
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500-1000mg TEST/week
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250-1000mg OTHER ANABOLICS/week
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2-6 IU GH/day
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up to 40 IU Insulin a day
AND THAT IS THE TRUTH...some would do just little extra - but majority DON'T!
Also - this is not non-stop either as people think...
Usually, whatever amount of weeks ON - at least HALF THAT MUCH OFF...and often - as much (or more) OFF than ON.
Meaning: 12 ON, 6 OFF...16 ON, 8 OFF...etc
Looks pretty reasonable to me, for a guy with awesome genetics and unlimited quaility food. In truth i'm sick of hearing about guys that allegedly do 10 million milligrams a week ::)
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Sounds like a reasonable dose of juice. Im not so sure about them taking all that time off though.
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Sounds like a reasonable dose of juice. Im not so sure about them taking all that time off though.
Agreed. The only thing I would change is taking a longer time off & dropping the slin.
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Well, the insulin would kill plenty of guys...
2000mg is not out of the park. esp if any of its SUS.
I think it's prolly a bit light on injectables for a big Pro.
I also bet most use plenty of orals too.
I'm bettin' A real list would more resemble Munsners death stack, but lighter on the orals.
I suspect they are adding cremes to the mix also these days. We got pretty much anything
available today. Got to build up a lot of scar tissue over the years.
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Looks like a fairly normal advanced stack.......thought it would of been front loaded with androgens and tapered off into more anabolics towards the end.......but hey Milos is one to be respected and the results are on show.
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what cycle do you guys think its most truthfull about what the Pros use looking at that thread? Milos cycle or GH15?
Gh15īs post would make more sense, but man, how can someone live taking all that stuff?
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what cycle do you guys think its most truthfull about what the Pros use looking at that thread? Milos cycle or GH15?
Gh15īs post would make more sense, but man, how can someone live taking all that stuff?
Milos cycle is more truthful. There are some that go to the extreme gh15 states, but they are a minority. I think the majority would fall into the realm of a Milos cycle to slightly higher...not gh15 high.
As for gh15 after reading this cycle he posted I greatly question his credibility. You know if this guy really is a top 10 pro as he claims to be then there are ways to prove it without compromising his identity to the entire board. if he were to prove to Ron who he was and if then Ron were to start a thread confirming gh15 is a top 10 pro, this would help his case a lot. I know a lot of us protect our identities on here, but come on, if you're going to make a claim like the ones gh makes, you have to do something to back it up.
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Milos cycle is more truthful. There are some that go to the extreme gh15 states, but they are a minority. I think the majority would fall into the realm of a Milos cycle to slightly higher...not gh15 high.
As for gh15 after reading this cycle he posted I greatly question his credibility. You know if this guy really is a top 10 pro as he claims to be then there are ways to prove it without compromising his identity to the entire board. if he were to prove to Ron who he was and if then Ron were to start a thread confirming gh15 is a top 10 pro, this would help his case a lot. I know a lot of us protect our identities on here, but come on, if you're going to make a claim like the ones gh makes, you have to do something to back it up.
I agree completely (especially with the last part).
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As for gh15 after reading this cycle he posted I greatly question his credibility. You know if this guy really is a top 10 pro as he claims to be then there are ways to prove it without compromising his identity to the entire board.
Yeah I think he is a fake too.
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While Milos' cycle may be more truthful because of its simplicity, the dosages are greatly underestimated.
From my knowledge of 2 good frinds who are recently turned pros, and 3 friends who are national level competitors. The truth is something like this.
2500mg test ew +-
1000-1500mg of other anabolics and an oral or two
8-16 iu gh
up to 60iu slin
igf1
Realize that is an offseason cycle and yes it does get way more complicated pre-contest.
HOWEVER I fully believe that at a pro show there is likely 1 person in the top 10 on Milos' cycle or similar but prob many on much more than that.
Interestingly enough, of those 5 people I'm close with only 1 person does not use slin and hes a pro.
And the other pro has not competed but once or twice since earning his card as he said he couldn't handle it anymore.
They all stay on year round and prob have for some time, taking a few months off throughout on 5 years here and there. By year round its really blast and cruise where cruise is 300mg of test 150mg of deca ew shot 1x per week along with HCG clomid etc. Offseason is 10 blast 2 weeks clearout 4weeks cruise, then switch tests and anabolics.
My buddy who did Jr. Nats last year was on:
2200 enan
600mg primo
600mg tren
600mg mast
abombs 150ed
10iu growth
igf1
30iu slin
This was all swapped 5 weeks out for suspension, mast ace,tren ace winni.
t3/clen/eca were rotated thruout. Along with diuretics and other last min oral goodies
Just what I've seen 1st hand.
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Milos has a damn good reason to say what he did...keep his ass out of more "legal issues" and since he's a guru he wants people to believe drugs play a minor part so his clients look even better.
i have plenty of proof that these pro's take a happy medium between GH and milos examples.
guys like ronnie, ruhl, jay, warren are probably on the high end. guys like dexter, heath are probably on the low end.
make no mistake, there are not any pro's who use 750mg Test with a few other AAS mixed in. it isn't that easy.
8)
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I bet most make sure they never run out of 6cc hypos!
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500-1000mg TEST/week
+
250-1000mg OTHER ANABOLICS/week
+
2-6 IU GH/day
+
up to 40 IU Insulin a day
AND THAT IS THE TRUTH...some would do just little extra - but majority DON'T!
Also - this is not non-stop either as people think...
Usually, whatever amount of weeks ON - at least HALF THAT MUCH OFF...and often - as much (or more) OFF than ON.
Meaning: 12 ON, 6 OFF...16 ON, 8 OFF...etc
Looks pretty reasonable to me, for a guy with awesome genetics and unlimited quaility food. In truth i'm sick of hearing about guys that allegedly do 10 million milligrams a week ::)
I call bullshit on the "12 ON, 6 OFF...16 ON, 8 OFF".
They stay on most of the year...
1G Test ew is on the conservative side for most IFBB pros......and I would say the majority easily double that with the extreme being 3-5G Test ew.
We're the Kovacs/Palumbo's of the world here.
Lee Priest, Milos....those guys are probably on the lighter side of AAS use.
DIV
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I call bullshit on the "12 ON, 6 OFF...16 ON, 8 OFF".
They stay on most of the year...
1G Test ew is on the conservative side for most IFBB pros......and I would say the majority easily double that with the extreme being 3-5G Test ew.
We're the Kovacs/Palumbo's of the world here.
Lee Priest, Milos....those guys are probably on the lighter side of AAS use.
DIV
I can't speak for Kovacs but I think you'd be surprised at the cycles Dave used to run. Sure, he used and used a good deal but not like this insanity gh15 posted. Dave gets a bad rap on this board for some reason and it pisses me off. Div, this is not a shot directed at you, but I wish the dumb asses of this board would keep their mouths shut concerning Dave, when in fact they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
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Daves a treasure trove of info. I'm sure it's great to pick his brain. He seems real cool and insightfull to.
He goes thru a lot of cycles in MD where the person asks for something unusual.
Not everything thet works for anyone works for all. If you got personal time w/ the man
thats awesome. I'd bet he knows does know of some outrageous dosers out there way over 4ooo.
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I can't speak for Kovacs but I think you'd be surprised at the cycles Dave used to run. Sure, he used and used a good deal but not like this insanity gh15 posted. Dave gets a bad rap on this board for some reason and it pisses me off. Div, this is not a shot directed at you, but I wish the dumb asses of this board would keep their mouths shut concerning Dave, when in fact they have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.
When I mention Palumbo, it's mainly directed at his physique and what he has done to it over the years.
Of course no one truly knows his cycles but him, though from looking at him, I can speculate the same as I do about Kovacs.
In some areas, Palumbo has atrophied, regardless of what he uses and to me that sends up red flags...
Being on high dosages for too long a period is what people refer to as "Palumboism".
Marble did a great post on it years ago.
DIV
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Of course no one truly knows his cycles but him
This is true, Dave P also seems to me like a guy who likes to push the envelope so to speak.
My guess on Dave is there was potent cycles that never ended, along with plenty of GH, IGF-1 and slin. Just a hunch though and will say whenever I see MD magazine his column is the only reason I look at the mag. Plus the job he does on that website answering all the questions is great, from what I can tell Dave usually gives out moderate cycles and is cautious giving advice.
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Milos cycle is more truthful. There are some that go to the extreme gh15 states, but they are a minority. I think the majority would fall into the realm of a Milos cycle to slightly higher...not gh15 high.
As for gh15 after reading this cycle he posted I greatly question his credibility. You know if this guy really is a top 10 pro as he claims to be then there are ways to prove it without compromising his identity to the entire board. if he were to prove to Ron who he was and if then Ron were to start a thread confirming gh15 is a top 10 pro, this would help his case a lot. I know a lot of us protect our identities on here, but come on, if you're going to make a claim like the ones gh makes, you have to do something to back it up.
Agreed, on all points.
Honestly, I have to agree with Duchaine on this topic. If you need terribly high doses of anabolics just to compete...then you shouldn't be competing at all. Your training and diet likely sucks, and probably your genetics.
A few years ago I needed 4g/week to get to 225lbs. Now, I'm almost there on just HRT doses, and I'm feeling much better. My training sucked back then, but I didn't know it. I suspect that most people who need very high doses have shitty training/diet...but likely will never realize that.
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A few years ago I needed 4g/week to get to 225lbs. Now, I'm almost there on just HRT doses, and I'm feeling much better. My training sucked back then, but I didn't know it. I suspect that most people who need very high doses have shitty training/diet...but likely will never realize that.
Thanks for being honest...
What aspect change in your training helped you the most?
8)
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Thanks for being honest...
What aspect change in your training helped you the most?
8)
I cut the shit with thinking I could train like an "athlete" which meant that heavy weights were secondary to my performance on the field. I think the same goes for bodybuilding, to be honest. Look at a heavyweight boxer...they don't train for hypertrophy at all, they train to fight...and half of them look like they could be a month from winning a BB'ing contest. Same goes for MMA...their physiques are built with no bullshit workouts...they look better than almost everyone out there. All that shit about being a "freak" is garbage, IMHO. Most people (AAS users) don't compete. They're big and fat, or small...they look like garbage. That's because they train like garbage, and they don't technically even "train" because training implies you are "training" FOR SOMETHING. Most guys who use steroids workout. They lift the same weights every year, they never get much stronger. If they did, we'd all be benching 500lbs in our early 20's.
Granted, I train for performance, but all that swiss-ball, bosa-ball, wobble-board, wood-chopping, GPP/SPP, garbage is a load of bullshit. You need to lift heavy and do the things that suck...heavy box squats, thick bar benching, floor presses, etc...
I thought I was strong, and training hard. I was doing sets with 225 on good mornings. I never saw anyone do that in my gym, so I was (relatively) strong. Then I worked out with a 165lb (Elite) powerlifter. He did concentric-only sets of good mornings from a dead stop in the rack with 450lbs for a double. I can now do 405 for a double. My higher rep sets are never less than 225 and usually 315. The first day I worked out with him, I went to 315, just to not look like a pussy; but I coulda done it all the while, I just didn't know it...I already thought I was strong and working hard. So my training sucked...I wasn't working as hard as I could have, because I was strong for my gym. Now, I work out at a military academy...and it's upped my game.
My average client follows a routine similar to the one I'm on, and we get about 30lbs on their squat (for working sets) in about 3 leg workouts, and we get about 10 lbs on their bench in about the same time, without steroids.
Bottom line is that my training sucked. I tried everything, and it sucked. I thought I trained hard, and I sucked. And at 5'7", 220lbs, I'm bigger than most bodybuilders at the same height, but I don't train for hypertrophy at all, and I take less gear (100mgs of Prop EOD). So that means most bodybuilders have to work their way up to "terrible" training, before they get to the shitty level I was at, before they can get to the point I am at now, which is still garbage IMHO.
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I cut the shit with thinking I could train like an "athlete" which meant that heavy weights were secondary to my performance on the field. I think the same goes for bodybuilding, to be honest. Look at a heavyweight boxer...they don't train for hypertrophy at all, they train to fight...and half of them look like they could be a month from winning a BB'ing contest. Same goes for MMA...their physiques are built with no bullshit workouts...they look better than almost everyone out there. All that shit about being a "freak" is garbage, IMHO. Most people (AAS users) don't compete. They're big and fat, or small...they look like garbage. That's because they train like garbage, and they don't technically even "train" because training implies you are "training" FOR SOMETHING. Most guys who use steroids workout. They lift the same weights every year, they never get much stronger. If they did, we'd all be benching 500lbs in our early 20's.
Granted, I train for performance, but all that swiss-ball, bosa-ball, wobble-board, wood-chopping, GPP/SPP, garbage is a load of bullshit. You need to lift heavy and do the things that suck...heavy box squats, thick bar benching, floor presses, etc...
I thought I was strong, and training hard. I was doing sets with 225 on good mornings. I never saw anyone do that in my gym, so I was (relatively) strong. Then I worked out with a 165lb (Elite) powerlifter. He did concentric-only sets of good mornings from a dead stop in the rack with 450lbs for a double. I can now do 405 for a double. My higher rep sets are never less than 225 and usually 315. The first day I worked out with him, I went to 315, just to not look like a pussy; but I coulda done it all the while, I just didn't know it...I already thought I was strong and working hard. So my training sucked...I wasn't working as hard as I could have, because I was strong for my gym. Now, I work out at a military academy...and it's upped my game.
My average client follows a routine similar to the one I'm on, and we get about 30lbs on their squat (for working sets) in about 3 leg workouts, and we get about 10 lbs on their bench in about the same time, without steroids.
Bottom line is that my training sucked. I tried everything, and it sucked. I thought I trained hard, and I sucked. And at 5'7", 220lbs, I'm bigger than most bodybuilders at the same height, but I don't train for hypertrophy at all, and I take less gear (100mgs of Prop EOD). So that means most bodybuilders have to work their way up to "terrible" training, before they get to the shitty level I was at, before they can get to the point I am at now, which is still garbage IMHO.
Good post...i agree.
Good mornings are a hell of a workout. my squat and deadlift jumped up quickly once i added them to my training a few years ago.
my training is very simple, yet heavy and very intense.
i take half of what most of my powerlifting friends take and i'm just as strong or stronger in most lifts. i've always done power movements and olympic movements.
8)
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hooker what is your bodyfat%, remember that these guys are in there 9-12% in the offseason, most people would kill to be that low, and contest they have to take that much
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hooker what is your bodyfat%, remember that these guys are in there 9-12% in the offseason, most people would kill to be that low, and contest they have to take that much
It's high (for me) right now. I'm likely 12-15%, which is very sloppy for me...but most of the year I'm barely over 200 and about 10%.
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Agreed, on all points.
Honestly, I have to agree with Duchaine on this topic. If you need terribly high doses of anabolics just to compete...then you shouldn't be competing at all. Your training and diet likely sucks, and probably your genetics.
A few years ago I needed 4g/week to get to 225lbs. Now, I'm almost there on just HRT doses, and I'm feeling much better. My training sucked back then, but I didn't know it. I suspect that most people who need very high doses have shitty training/diet...but likely will never realize that.
Anthony,
4G ew to get to only 225 is insane.
I couldn't imagine using that much......with the sides.
The risk/reward ration at those dosages are negligible.
I'm shocked at this revelation. :-X
DIV
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Anthony,
4G ew to get to only 225 is insane.
I couldn't imagine using that much......with the sides.
The risk/reward ration at those dosages are negligible.
I'm shocked at this revelation. :-X
DIV
Well, I'm basically there now, on 100mgs/EOD of prop. So it was obviously a training/eating issue. Also, keep in mind that I don't train for hypertrophy, so size is really not important at all for me. Weight is an after thought...I'm not a BB'er, nor do I have any interest in it at all. But the risk/reward wasn't even a concern...I did that right when I got out of prison, and just wanted some quick size and strength...and remember, at that point, everything I could want was free (still is), so I just shot 3cc a day of whatever I got for free.
But again, I kinda just did it to do it, and because it was free. Risk/Reward is an interesting idea though. What if I told you I did it so I could oil myself up, put on speedos, and win a dinky plastic trophy that looks like it belongs in the Gay-Hall-of-Fame? Would that constitute acceptable risk, then?
It's all in how you look at it.
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Well, I'm basically there now, on 100mgs/EOD of prop. So it was obviously a training/eating issue. Also, keep in mind that I don't train for hypertrophy, so size is really not important at all for me. Weight is an after thought...I'm not a BB'er, nor do I have any interest in it at all. But the risk/reward wasn't even a concern...I did that right when I got out of prison, and just wanted some quick size and strength...and remember, at that point, everything I could want was free (still is), so I just shot 3cc a day of whatever I got for free.
But again, I kinda just did it to do it, and because it was free. Risk/Reward is an interesting idea though. What if I told you I did it so I could oil myself up, put on speedos, and win a dinky plastic trophy that looks like it belongs in the Gay-Hall-of-Fame? Would that constitute acceptable risk, then?
It's all in how you look at it.
Entrance into the "Gay-Hall-of-Fame?" Is that where you're heading if you compete in a BB contest, lol?
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Entrance into the "Gay-Hall-of-Fame?" Is that where you're heading if you compete in a BB contest, lol?
Yeah what a cop out.
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Entrance into the "Gay-Hall-of-Fame?" Is that where you're heading if you compete in a BB contest, lol?
Only if you're lucky...
My point is that the goals that are of utmost importance to some people (some arbitrary weight, some arbitrary athletic goal, some arbitrary trophy) are not important at all to others...and to still others, they're laughable. So to talk of things in a risk/reward ratio type of dialogue isn't really going to be accurate.
For me, being part of a championship rugby team is a huge goal, as is playing the sport at a high level...for others, winning a bodybuilding contest is a huge goal...but in practical terms both constitute acceptable risk/reward to the person alone, and not to anyone else. It's gibberish to really talk of risk/reward in those terms. Perhaps, to the 350lb overweight person, the ultimate goal of losing 150lbs is the most important thing in the world. How do you quantify risk reward in that (or these other) cases?
In short, what I was saying...was that the criteria isn't valid. I weighed a lot, and was using a lot of gear...but it didn't help my goals at all. Now, I'm much fitter, on way less gear, and weigh about the same...and it does help my goals. Perhaps, to me, I would say the risk reward of going over 100mgs/EOD of prop is unacceptable. Or that the risk of going to prison to use AAS is unacceptable. But not to others.
Again, my point (besides that I didn't need that much gear to get to this weight), is that you can't measure results and quantify them in risk/reward....it would constitute an unacceptable risk (to me) to buy anything illegally right now, even if I knew I could be Mr.O by doing it (hypothetically). Why? Because bodybuilding is nothing at all to me. Truth be told, I actually don't like it at all. But...It's everything to other people. You can't measure these things, and that's my point. It's an invalid criteria.
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He has a point, I dont think he means to be dissrespectfull to BBers.
Everyone has different uses for using these drugs. Fact is the athletes that prolly use the most look sloppy. Dose can be pretty individual. I'd feel fine on 1000mgs of sus in aweek pluss 500 Te.
While 500cyp will make my back look like I got hit with buckshot.
Hooker,Im wondering why Ya prefer the prop for HRT vs a long acting?
All them shots are a pain.
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Only if you're lucky...
My point is that the goals that are of utmost importance to some people (some arbitrary weight, some arbitrary athletic goal, some arbitrary trophy) are not important at all to others...and to still others, they're laughable. So to talk of things in a risk/reward ratio type of dialogue isn't really going to be accurate.
For me, being part of a championship rugby team is a huge goal, as is playing the sport at a high level...for others, winning a bodybuilding contest is a huge goal...but in practical terms both constitute acceptable risk/reward to the person alone, and not to anyone else. It's gibberish to really talk of risk/reward in those terms. Perhaps, to the 350lb overweight person, the ultimate goal of losing 150lbs is the most important thing in the world. How do you quantify risk reward in that (or these other) cases?
In short, what I was saying...was that the criteria isn't valid. I weighed a lot, and was using a lot of gear...but it didn't help my goals at all. Now, I'm much fitter, on way less gear, and weigh about the same...and it does help my goals. Perhaps, to me, I would say the risk reward of going over 100mgs/EOD of prop is unacceptable. Or that the risk of going to prison to use AAS is unacceptable. But not to others.
Again, my point (besides that I didn't need that much gear to get to this weight), is that you can't measure results and quantify them in risk/reward....it would constitute an unacceptable risk (to me) to buy anything illegally right now, even if I knew I could be Mr.O by doing it (hypothetically). Why? Because bodybuilding is nothing at all to me. Truth be told, I actually don't like it at all. But...It's everything to other people. You can't measure these things, and that's my point. It's an invalid criteria.
I understand your points, and I agree. I had a conversaton with a friend along these lines the other day...he asked, where do you cut it off, when does the balance of good become outweighed by the bad? When does the risk involved in a pursuit like, in his an my case BB, become far greater then any reward? And you're absolutely right hooker, it can only be measured by the individual...at the same time, the individual does need to make these choices based on some sort of sound reason. Personally speaking, I would never live like I do and put the stress on my body that I do, if there were not some goals in mind...and no, a shiny little trophy is not enough to justify these goals...there needs/has to be more then that IMO.
Hooker,Im wondering why Ya prefer the prop for HRT vs a long acting?
All them shots are a pain.
Just a hunch, but I'd say he prefers it because prop yields more actual usable test then other esters. Plus, if you can handle the injection frequency and/or the pain, it can be much smoother. For myself, 8wks of prop at a time is all I can take...the injections are fairly painful, and it doesn't matter what brand I use...after 8wks of that I've usually had enough.
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He has a point, I dont think he means to be dissrespectfull to BBers.
Everyone has different uses for using these drugs. Fact is the athletes that prolly use the most look sloppy. Dose can be pretty individual. I'd feel fine on 1000mgs of sus in aweek pluss 500 Te.
While 500cyp will make my back look like I got hit with buckshot.
Hooker,Im wondering why Ya prefer the prop for HRT vs a long acting?
All them shots are a pain.
I just always held less water on prop. And no, I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone, really...whatever people's goals are...are important to them (not to me, though, and vice-versa). That's my point...you can't measure success when people have different goals. 4 years ago, my friend Rosanne (Clemente) wanted to step on stage...then she wanted to win a state title...now, she wants to be healthy and look like a girl...and that goal is more important to her than a state title was. Goals, risk/reward, etc...it's all subjective...and terribly important...and not important at all.
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I understand your points, and I agree. I had a conversaton with a friend along these lines the other day...he asked, where do you cut it off, when does the balance of good become outweighed by the bad? When does the risk involved in a pursuit like, in his an my case BB, become far greater then any reward? And you're absolutely right hooker, it can only be measured by the individual...at the same time, the individual does need to make these choices based on some sort of sound reason. Personally speaking, I would never live like I do and put the stress on my body that I do, if there were not some goals in mind...and no, a shiny little trophy is not enough to justify these goals...there needs/has to be more then that IMO.
One time in my blog I mentioned that the prize money earned for winning the Mr.O + all the endorsements...is roughly half of the yearly income of the top video gamer in the world (FaTal1ty is his name).
I got about a dozen e-mails. More than half said that I was a dick for mentioning that little fact, and asked me if I was trying to disrespect bodybuilders....
The rest asked me if I was trying to disrespect video-gamers...
Perspective, guys. For every guy who wants to be Mr.0, there's 10 who want to be the best video gamer in the world, and their goals are just as important to themselves...though...ea ch thinks the other's goal is absurdly dumb, and their own to be very worthwhile and important.
I think they're both right.
;)
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One time in my blog I mentioned that the prize money earned for winning the Mr.O + all the endorsements...is roughly half of the yearly income of the top video gamer in the world (FaTal1ty is his name).
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;D Sad but True I dont doubt it. Pointing something out is not being dissrespectfull.
Now, I cant help but wonder what the best stack for a "Pro video gamer" is. It wouldnt surprise me a bit
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...it's all subjective...and terribly important...and not important at all.
Agree, very insightfull, what you wrote above is very cool! I thought you may be going in the other direction here. Personally for me any trophy I ever won are in a box in my basement, kept because one day when I'm old I'm sure they will bring great and maybe not so great memories, but they are like pages in a book.
The reason I compete is to be MY best, I don't care who else is there that day. I do it to push myself to new levels, just for me, no one else. Do you need to step on some kind of stage or whatever for this? No and it for sure is only important to me, does not matter much to others, we just try to make the best of our own little worlds as we see fit.
Its the people in your life that support you and make your endeavours important to them those are the people we cherish, sometimes people suprise me on how good they can be. You know the people who can give praise are secure people, the ones who hate have the issues.
Like I have said before, I would never "Rain on anyones parade" what ever it is that is important to THEM.
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Risk/Reward is an interesting idea though. What if I told you I did it so I could oil myself up, put on speedos, and win a dinky plastic trophy that looks like it belongs in the Gay-Hall-of-Fame? Would that constitute acceptable risk, then?
It's all in how you look at it.
Of course it's a matter of perspective, Anthony.
I just can't see 4G ew ever being an option for me, unless I was going IFFB pro and didn't have a family or girlfriend.
In that case, it wouldn't matter if I lived or died.........just as long as I made it and whatever amount of drugs it took would suffice.
That would undoubtedly shorten my life, but if I was hellbent on doing it, I'm sure I could.
Agree, very insightfull, what you wrote above is very cool! I thought you may be going in the other direction here. Personally for me any trophy I ever won are in a box in my basement, kept because one day when I'm old I'm sure they will bring great and maybe not so great memories, but they are like pages in a book.
The reason I compete is to be MY best, I don't care who else is there that day. I do it to push myself to new levels, just for me, no one else. Do you need to step on some kind of stage or whatever for this? No and it for sure is only important to me, does not matter much to others, we just try to make the best of our own little worlds as we see fit.
Its the people in your life that support you and make your endeavours important to them those are the people we cherish, sometimes people suprise me on how good they can be. You know the people who can give praise are secure people, the ones who hate have the issues.
Like I have said before, I would never "Rain on anyones parade" what ever it is that is important to THEM.
I've always considered bodybuilders as primadonnas when I judge lifters.
I'm a trainer, so I'm surrounded by varous types of lifters all the time.
There are some bodybuilders who are good fundamental lifters, but just choose to go in that direction instead of strongman or powerlifting.....
On the whole, though, most bodybuilders I see are much like women in terms of aesthetics and that is something I don't respect.
Looking at yourself in the mirror while you train to see the muscle and admiring yourself like that is a female trait....
When I train, it's intensity and the performing of the lifts, the technical aspects.........nothing else matters at that point.
Not the mirror, or the women......nothing else but the lifts.
DIV
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I've always considered bodybuilders as primadonnas when I judge lifters.
I'm a trainer, so I'm surrounded by varous types of lifters all the time.
There are some bodybuilders who are good fundamental lifters, but just choose to go in that direction instead of strongman or powerlifting.....
On the whole, though, most bodybuilders I see are much like women in terms of aesthetics and that is something I don't respect.
Looking at yourself in the mirror while you train to see the muscle and admiring yourself like that is a female trait....
When I train, it's intensity and the performing of the lifts, the technical aspects.........nothing else matters at that point.
Not the mirror, or the women......nothing else but the lifts.
DIV
Thanks for sharing, your opinion is duly noted.
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4500mg? Ok Lets say 1500-2500 test, and the rest Deca and such. I bet theres big boys that can soak that up with out running the BP out of range. If the Blood pannels aint way whacked, whos to say thats
gonna kill them anymoreso then a 600mg cycle for a average guy. I'd love to see what those strong man
competitors take. Look at some of the top PLers ::). My God looks like some are ADDING Estrogen.
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I've always considered bodybuilders as primadonnas when I judge lifters.
I'm a trainer, so I'm surrounded by varous types of lifters all the time.
There are some bodybuilders who are good fundamental lifters, but just choose to go in that direction instead of strongman or powerlifting.....
On the whole, though, most bodybuilders I see are much like women in terms of aesthetics and that is something I don't respect.
Looking at yourself in the mirror while you train to see the muscle and admiring yourself like that is a female trait....
When I train, it's intensity and the performing of the lifts, the technical aspects.........nothing else matters at that point.
Not the mirror, or the women......nothing else but the lifts.
DIV
I disagree big time. True, there are those out there that fit the mold you just described "primadonnas" but it's just a stereotype and stereotypes are not always true...I think we can all agree on that.
My life revolves around BB, many of my everyday friends are involved in the sport in some manner, be it BB, FBB, fit or fig, and very few are what I'd consider "primadonnas."
As for "looking in the mirror" for most it's not done out of admiration for ones self...at least it shouldn't be. It's simply judging ones self, looking at or for improvements. As for doing a bunch of posing and flexing in the gym right in front of everyone...yeah, I've seen guys that do this, most do not...I sure don't. There is however a little studio room at my gym that I'll go into and pose to see my progress and what needs to be done...so it's done privately.
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Theres plenty of narcissistic asses that are not BBers. PPL who apreciate BBing like to watch an acomplished Bber lift and pose. Nothing vain about that in my mind. Its the whole damn point of building it.
Wierd science. I dont think all BBers are like "Oh Im so beautifull".
I personaly dont look like jack, but my Drs and Massage therapist and accupuncturist all make.. Oh WOW comments.
Personaly I think I look kind of wierd. Its just a matter of being able to change my body to a degree.
Thats powerfull. SO many PPL cry/ complain about how they look - Well do somthing!You can.
AJ, you dont come acrost as egotistical or vain even a little. I wouldnt sweat it. PPL enjoy watching you pose Im sure.
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4500mg? Ok Lets say 1500-2500 test, and the rest Deca and such. I bet theres big boys that can soak that up with out running the BP out of range. If the Blood pannels aint way whacked, whos to say thats
gonna kill them anymoreso then a 600mg cycle for a average guy. I'd love to see what those strong man
competitors take. Look at some of the top PLers ::). My God looks like some are ADDING Estrogen.
Alot of those powerlifters are letting bodyfat levels get out of control because they don't care about that, as long as they are keeping optimum strengh levels with glycogen levels topped off, they don't care how fat they are.
It's leverage.
I disagree big time. True, there are those out there that fit the mold you just described "primadonnas" but it's just a stereotype and stereotypes are not always true...I think we can all agree on that.
My life revolves around BB, many of my everyday friends are involved in the sport in some manner, be it BB, FBB, fit or fig, and very few are what I'd consider "primadonnas."
As for "looking in the mirror" for most it's not done out of admiration for ones self...at least it shouldn't be. It's simply judging ones self, looking at or for improvements. As for doing a bunch of posing and flexing in the gym right in front of everyone...yeah, I've seen guys that do this, most do not...I sure don't. There is however a little studio room at my gym that I'll go into and pose to see my progress and what needs to be done...so it's done privately.
More than half of those I see who I characterize as bodybuilders are the primadonna types.
The weight they use, average at best and the form isn't really textbook.
Perhaps it's Phoenix..........but that's what I see.
I realize it's all training style, but it's hard for me to respect a lifter who is larger than me but doesn't lift the same weight I do for the form that I lift it.
I suppose that's the difference in mindset.
Strength vs. Size.......
I'm all about the strength and I don't care about the size.
DIV
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AJ, you dont come acrost as egotistical or vain even a little. I wouldnt sweat it. PPL enjoy watching you pose Im sure.
Trust me, I'm nothing special to look at. As for being egotistical and vain...I am undoubtedly the biggest bad ass on the planet! 8)
More than half of those I see who I characterize as bodybuilders are the primadonna types.
The weight they use, average at best and the form isn't really textbook.
This I don't understand. Why does the actual weight used need to be the measure of respect you have for any BB? After all, you know as well as anyone what the goal is for a BB, and respect in this case is not measured by weight moved.
I'll agree on form though. BB or PL, it's hard to look at either and say, "great lift" when the form sucks. When I see some guy squatting 600lbs going down 2 inches, no, I don't admire this.
Perhaps it's Phoenix..........but that's what I see.
No, what you've described does exist...they are out there and there is always at least one or two in most gyms anywhere. But from what I've seen, most BB do not fall into this category...they cannot, simply because that would be a waste of time and energy to what they are actually trying to do. Maybe you don't notice these types because they probably keep to themselves...no one ever notices someone who's not trying to create a scene IMO.
I realize it's all training style, but it's hard for me to respect a lifter who is larger than me but doesn't lift the same weight I do for the form that I lift it.
I suppose that's the difference in mindset.
Strength vs. Size.......
I'm all about the strength and I don't care about the size.
DIV
I suppose so. However, even though the size is important to me, in actuality it's the "look" the actual size does not matter...you know, for example, it's about making 200lbs look like 250lbs. But even so, even if you are a BB, you still enjoy the strength that you have...you just have to be carefull to not let your ego in terms of strength get in the way of your primary goal...I still to this day have to watch that.
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No, what you've described does exist...they are out there and there is always at least one or two in most gyms anywhere. But from what I've seen, most BB do not fall into this category...they cannot, simply because that would be a waste of time and energy to what they are actually trying to do. Maybe you don't notice these types because they probably keep to themselves...no one ever notices someone who's not trying to create a scene IMO.
Perhaps.......
These are just general observations.
Some things stand out more than others when you work in a gym.
DIV
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Perhaps.......
These are just general observations.
Some things stand out more than others when you work in a gym.
DIV
Speaking of working in a gym. How has that worked out for you so far...have you been able to make some decent money? I ask because I'm thinking of getting in to that more full time...I need a change and my current job has just become too much.
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Speaking of working in a gym. How has that worked out for you so far...have you been able to make some decent money? I ask because I'm thinking of getting in to that more full time...I need a change and my current job has just become too much.
Do it part-time because it's a nice change of scenery, esp if you are good at it, but don't rely on it for full-time work.
I make decent money, esp considering that I work indoors telling people how to lift.....
I can't complain.
Plus, I make my own hours and I don't sell anything.
I only train.
DIV
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Looks reasonable to me. I can see a good number of national level competitors using something around that area. I think the top guys at the olympia though use considerably more.
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Looks reasonable to me. I can see a good number of national level competitors using something around that area. I think the top guys at the olympia though use considerably more.
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion, you've just stated yours above. But I wish everyone would understand that when they say things like "I think" this or that, that this does not hold tons of credibility...not when we're talking about what "others" do...in this case, people none of you know in "real" life, nor have any sort of "real" contact with.
Again, and for the up tenth time, there are guys who use/used this much and more (gh15 cycles) I've known some. But I also know some very successful BB who use much less (Milos style cycles) and their are more of them IMO.
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There is nothing wrong with having an opinion, you've just stated yours above. But I wish everyone would understand that when they say things like "I think" this or that, that this does not hold tons of credibility...not when we're talking about what "others" do...in this case, people none of you know in "real" life, nor have any sort of "real" contact with.
Again, and for the up tenth time, there are guys who use/used this much and more (gh15 cycles) I've known some. But I also know some very successful BB who use much less (Milos style cycles) and their are more of them IMO.
Right, it's downright counter productive for most. But that dont stop people from doing it.
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This I don't understand. Why does the actual weight used need to be the measure of respect you have for any BB? After all, you know as well as anyone what the goal is for a BB, and respect in this case is not measured by weight moved.
This is definitionally true. The best competitor at a given event or activity is the person who is best at that given activity. The premier example is MMA....nobody cares what kind of body you have or what kind of weights you can move...they only care if you can beat the other guy. Nothing else matters.
The same should go for bodybuilding (or any endeavor). You should judge people's ability by their proficiency at their sport, not with arbitrary standards.