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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on July 18, 2007, 10:04:30 PM
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Very Interesting.... Note that the National Intelligence Estimate released last week pointed to the net as a main source for radicalizing home grown terrorist cells ::) uh huh... ::)
With public opinion on both the President and Iraq war cratering, it's hard to imagine any amount of PR could turn back the tide. But don't tell that to the Pentagon's public affairs division. Ken Silverstein reports on the latest efforts to spread the good word on Iraq in Monday's Harper's.
Cont... http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Nowhere_to_go_but_up_Pentagon_0717.html
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The Terrorists are well ahead of the PR war bubble. they use the net to spew hate and Bullshit, so we're doing what we can to get our message across. Much like the hugely Liberal slant that this article came from. Its a Liberal website, commenting on a military organization. Should we expect a fair and balanced report..hell no. When the liberals spew BS its truth but when the military says anything its spin and propaganda right? ::)
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The Terrorists are well ahead of the PR war bubble. they use the net to spew hate and Bullshit, so we're doing what we can to get our message across. Much like the hugely Liberal slant that this article came from. Its a Liberal website, commenting on a military organization. Should we expect a fair and balanced report..hell no. When the liberals spew BS its truth but when the military says anything its spin and propaganda right? ::)
But it's okdokie to run with right leaning stories all day long here right ::)
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No...middle of the road with facts works for me. I try not to paste from Right sites because it lessens the credibility.
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Also, the story originates from Harper's a /magazine which is a progressive magazine but does not limit conservative views from being published...
"About Harper's Magazine: 2006 National Magazine Award for General Excellence Winner! Offering quality fiction and nonfiction commentary on politics, literature, culture, and science, Harper's Magazine is an eclectic blend of essays, fiction and reporting that ranges from the liberal to the conservative. Each issue of Harper's Magazine gives you the most stimulating writing by today's best observers and interpreters of what's happening in the world."
OK Headhunter, you state that "The Terrorists" are way ahead of the "PR War Bubble" Is there one spec of anything you have to back that shit up? They state that it's the new threat you know, that there are all of these radicalized cells being spawned in western nations right here on the net... WOW ::) Where ??? Who are they really talking about ??? Where are these forums and message boards and blogs that are spawning terrorist cells? Maybe it's just me, but in all my wonderings on the net, the worst I've ever found is right here on getbig, our very own, The Shadow and I don't exactly see terror cells forming his his path ::) So who are we really talking about... What we're really talking about is a pissed off population disgusted with a bullshit war and a bullshit president and an Administration that can't continue down the warpath with everyone talking and fully aware of the bullshit... There is no Al Qaeda operatives ahead of the American Media Machine running about the net convincing everyone to be anti-American-- ahead of the PR War Bubble ::)
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No...middle of the road with facts works for me. I try not to paste from Right sites because it lessens the credibility.
Let's be realistic, middle of the road news outlets are rare as hell. If you want to get to the truth of the matter there's nothing better than a forum like this and pitting information from multiple angles, left and right until lies and truths are revealed. If we sat around only posting stuff that everyone argreed was from a source without bias, we might as well end the forum, it's just not realistic based on the current state of politics...
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Let's be realistic, middle of the road news outlets are rare as hell. If you want to get to the truth of the matter there's nothing better than a forum like this and pitting information from multiple angles, left and right until lies and truths are revealed. If we sat around only posting stuff that everyone argreed was from a source without bias, we might as well end the forum, it's just not realistic based on the current state of politics...
Well said. Here's my news for the day: The terrorist threat is really overblown.
The more I look at it, the more I see propaganda being spread.
The US authorities cannot find one instance of an Al Qaeda sleeper cell in the US. http://wpherald.com/articles/4615/1/Commentary-Uncovering-Americas-missing-sleeper-cells/FBI-claims-no-evidence-of-terrorist-quotsleeper-cellsquot.html
In the iraq war only 5% of the foreign attackers of our troops have any association with Al Qaeda. I don't count the iraqi people mired in civil war or attacking the occupying force--that's not Al Qaeda.
Worldwide Al Qaeda recruitment is predicated on defending their homeland from infidels and not the moronic 71 virgins reason or that they hate our freedoms. They don't want westerners meddling in their affairs in their own land. These people are pissed that we and our allies occupy their countries. Makes sense to me. http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress01/caruso121801.htm
On 9/11 we were attacked one time by a bunch of guys armed with boxcutters and a plan. This isn't remotely similar to WWII.
That being said, terrorists are real and good police work should be used to nab them.
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Well said. Here's my news for the day: The terrorist threat is really overblown.
The more I look at it, the more I see propaganda being spread.
The US authorities cannot find one instance of an Al Qaeda sleeper cell in the US. http://wpherald.com/articles/4615/1/Commentary-Uncovering-Americas-missing-sleeper-cells/FBI-claims-no-evidence-of-terrorist-quotsleeper-cellsquot.html
Are you saying the fact we have not found a sleeper cell (assuming that is a fact) is evidence that a sleeper cell isn't in this country right now?
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Are you saying the fact we have not found a sleeper cell (assuming that is a fact) is evidence that a sleeper cell isn't in this country right now?
No, I'm saying no sleeper cells have been found in the US. Zero. None. But the larger point I'm alluding to is that while terrorism is a problem, it certainly isn't on par with a world war or the like. 19 guys with box cutters attacked us.
It still amazes me that the attack on Iraq got off the ground--about 600 billion spent, tens of thousands of people killed, ten times that amount injured, and on and on.
For 19 guys with boxcutters and a plan.
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Are you saying the fact we have not found a sleeper cell (assuming that is a fact) is evidence that a sleeper cell isn't in this country right now?
Hmmmm, gee... I can't see why there wouldn't be a jillion sleeper cells in America... Let's see, we have a "massive terrorist network" that's taken the full brunt of the US Military and is still ticking strong and we've had a border situation that's been not only wide open but advertised constantly as wide open with emphasis on a government that has ZERO desire to do anything about it... There's every reason a terrorist network such as "Al Qaeda" would have many cells in America... But.... The threat??? no, not a wide open border and well funded terror network, it's Internet Blogs and Forums breeding independent cells in western nations.... Oh boy... something looks.... like Bullshit....
How does a nation have a border like it is and advertised as such get away with painting pictures of Al Qaeda as a global boogie man without giving a rats ass about border security... because they have an intimate knowledge of Al Qaeda... tooooooo intimate... so intimate that.... uh huh... DUH :D
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No, I'm saying no sleeper cells have been found in the US. Zero. None. But the larger point I'm alluding to is that while terrorism is a problem, it certainly isn't on par with a world war or the like. 19 guys with box cutters attacked us.
It still amazes me that the attack on Iraq got off the ground--about 600 billion spent, tens of thousands of people killed, ten times that amount injured, and on and on.
For 19 guys with boxcutters and a plan.
Understood. Terrorism isn't like a world war. It's much different. It's actually much more dangerous. Save Pearl Harbor, our borders have never really been threatened by a world war. Terrorism, on the other hand, struck at the heart of our country. The fact such a massive, devastating attack could be carried out by 19 guys is downright scary.
The fact we have not found sleeper cells could mean several things: (1) they don't exist; (2) they are hiding, which is what they are supposed to do, and we haven't found them yet; or (3) we know where they are, but aren't going to let the terrorists know that we have discovered their cell. I think (3) is most likely, but it's possible there are no terrorist cells in the U.S.
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Hmmmm, gee... I can't see why there wouldn't be a jillion sleeper cells in America... Let's see, we have a "massive terrorist network" that's taken the full brunt of the US Military and is still ticking strong and we've had a border situation that's been not only wide open but advertised constantly as wide open with emphasis on a government that has ZERO desire to do anything about it... There's every reason a terrorist network such as "Al Qaeda" would have many cells in America... But.... The threat??? no, not a wide open border and well funded terror network, it's Internet Blogs and Forums breeding independent cells in western nations.... Oh boy... something looks.... like Bullshit....
How does a nation have a border like it is and advertised as such get away with painting pictures of Al Qaeda as a global boogie man without giving a rats ass about border security... because they have an intimate knowledge of Al Qaeda... tooooooo intimate... so intimate that.... uh huh... DUH :D
lol. Dude you are funny. I'm glad you're back. :)
Sure we have a problem with border security. I don't think that has anything to do with whether or not terrorist cells are in our country. As 911 showed, it doesn't a whole lot of people to carry out attacks. We had 19 guys hiding among 300 million people. Needle in a haystack.
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Understood. Terrorism isn't like a world war. It's much different. It's actually much more dangerous. Save Pearl Harbor, our borders have never really been threatened by a world war. Terrorism, on the other hand, struck at the heart of our country. The fact such a massive, devastating attack could be carried out by 19 guys is downright scary.
The fact we have not found sleeper cells could mean several things: (1) they don't exist; (2) they are hiding, which is what they are supposed to do, and we haven't found them yet; or (3) we know where they are, but aren't going to let the terrorists know that we have discovered their cell. I think (3) is most likely, but it's possible there are no terrorist cells in the U.S.
The thing that scares me is that we spend 1/2 the annual federal budget on defense and all it took to harm us was a few hijackers. The other things that bother me were all the put-options that came down on the airlines PRIOR to the attack and also the fact that turning off each planes tracking device somehow stymied the most technologically advanced defense and air-traffic control systems in the world. I guess my father-in-law wasted his time in WWII hanging out the back of a b-52 showering the Japanese islands with metal filings to disrupt their radar....hell, all he had to do was turn off his locator type-thing-device.
I agree that terrorism is a problem. But it is not like, nor as dangerous as say WWII for these reasons:
*There's no country unified behind the terrorists--they lack infrastructure.
*Tora Bora--the purported stronghold of Al Qaed--was only a couple of poorly stocked caves and bunkers
*Al Qaeda is not a centralized entity...it's a loose organization that sometimes takes the credit for certain acts.
I'm off to home. Have a great night Beach Bum.
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lol. Dude you are funny. I'm glad you're back. :)
Sure we have a problem with border security. I don't think that has anything to do with whether or not terrorist cells are in our country. As 911 showed, it doesn't a whole lot of people to carry out attacks. We had 19 guys hiding among 300 million people. Needle in a haystack.
Why aren't there many terror cells in America, is there something stopping them? Jose and Hose-B have no problems whatsoever setting up in the millions with no money to get them started... Now... well... a well funded terror network, what's stopping them? Why would it be we wouldn't give a shit about border security with a global terror network such as the mighty Al Quada???? Come on dude.... Think about it...
Which is it, Al-Qaeda is a dangerous foe, well funded and worthy of a decades long war or dumber than a bunch of mexicans?
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The thing that scares me is that we spend 1/2 the annual federal budget on defense and all it took to harm us was a few hijackers. The other things that bother me were all the put-options that came down on the airlines PRIOR to the attack and also the fact that turning off each planes tracking device somehow stymied the most technologically advanced defense and air-traffic control systems in the world. I guess my father-in-law wasted his time in WWII hanging out the back of a b-52 showering the Japanese islands with metal filings to disrupt their radar....hell, all he had to do was turn off his locator type-thing-device.
I agree that terrorism is a problem. But it is not like, nor as dangerous as say WWII for these reasons:
*There's no country unified behind the terrorists--they lack infrastructure.
*Tora Bora--the purported stronghold of Al Qaed--was only a couple of poorly stocked caves and bunkers
*Al Qaeda is not a centralized entity...it's a loose organization that sometimes takes the credit for certain acts.
I'm off to home. Have a great night Beach Bum.
Adios. My day is only just beginning. :) This multi-tasking thing can get real difficult . . . .
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Why aren't there many terror cells in America, is there something stopping them? Jose and Hose-B have no problems whatsoever setting up in the millions with no money to get them started... Now... well... a well funded terror network, what's stopping them? Why would it be we wouldn't give a shit about border security with a global terror network such as the mighty Al Quada???? Come on dude.... Think about it...
I don't know. Maybe they are here and we haven't found them. Maybe wiping their base in Afghanistan slowed them down.
We ought to care a whole lot about border security. I know I do.
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I don't know. Maybe they are here and we haven't found them. Maybe wiping their base in Afghanistan slowed them down.
We ought to care a whole lot about border security. I know I do.
and you don't question why the administration doesn't? Why part of the homeland security agenda never included serious border security? Well you should wonder about things like this, sometimes there are reasons that deserve more attention than being left at "I don't know"
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Things that make you go hum.... there are those that say, "I don't know" and continue to repeat the party mantra and then there are those that look and guys like Adam Pearlman and go, BWHAHHAAAHAAHAHhahhahahh ahhah BULLSHIT...
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and you don't question why the administration doesn't? Why part of the homeland security agenda never included serious border security? Well you should wonder about things like this, sometimes there are reasons that deserve more attention than being left at "I don't know"
More attention like what? Do you know the answer?
I question why Republican and Democrat administrations and Republican and Democrat Congresses haven't done enough to shore up our borders and stop illegal immigration since as long as I can remember.
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More attention like what? Do you know the answer?
I question why Republican and Democrat administrations and Republican and Democrat Congresses haven't done enough to shore up our borders and stop illegal immigration since as long as I can remember.
Yes I know the answer... So do you, you just won't admit it :)
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Yes I know the answer... So do you, you just won't admit it :)
O.K. I give up. What's the answer?
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O.K. I give up. What's the answer?
In all the time we've shot back and forth, you know full well...
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In all the time we've shot back and forth, you know full well...
I honestly don't know. When have we discussed border security?
If this is related to your belief that a large scale attack is being planned by the government (at least I think that's your belief?), I don't see how border security is relevant, if the attack is coming from within. But I really don't know what you're talking about. Not sure if I even recall correctly what you believe. You've been gone too long. :)
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I honestly don't know. When have we discussed border security?
If this is related to your belief that a large scale attack is being planned by the government (at least I think that's your belief?), I don't see how border security is relevant, if the attack is coming from within. But I really don't know what you're talking about. Not sure if I even recall correctly what you believe. You've been gone too long. :)
A COUPLE MONTHS OUT OF YEARS ON THE GETBIG IS TOO LONG ???
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A COUPLE MONTHS OUT OF YEARS ON THE GETBIG IS TOO LONG ???
Dude. How many topics and posts have been posted in the last few months? I can't even remember what I said a few months ago.
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I wasn't talking about what I said a few months ago, it's all in my recent posts,... but that's a terrible portrayal of yourself... I'm far from brilliant, am going through the worst time of my life and have no problem remembering what we've talked about all the way back to your "reading issues" days in Religious and General :) Come on, you're pulling my leg, I know you don't forget everything past a few months... Oh oh, I get it, you mean to say it's just with things I say, that what I say is so extremely unimportant to you, there is no need to waste a brain cell... gotcha, haha.... :-\
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I wasn't talking about what I said a few months ago, it's all in my recent posts,... but that's a terrible portrayal of yourself... I'm far from brilliant, am going through the worst time of my life and have no problem remembering what we've talked about all the way back to your "reading issues" days in Religious and General :) Come on, you're pulling my leg, I know you don't forget everything past a few months... Oh oh, I get it, you mean to say it's just with things I say, that what I say is so extremely unimportant to you, there is no need to waste a brain cell... gotcha, haha.... :-\
Hey I am who I am. Some things I remember. Some I don't. I juggle about 50 tasks a day in addition to posting here. Also, remember that I don't read every thread, or every post in every thread. I don't avoid your topics or threads. I think you're smart and funny . . . and a little crazy (but in a good way). :)
But, we didn't have a recent exchange about border security. Or even an old exchange from what I recall.
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Hey I am who I am. Some things I remember. Some I don't. I juggle about 50 tasks a day in addition to posting here. Also, remember that I don't read every thread, or every post in every thread. I don't avoid your topics or threads. I think you're smart and funny . . . and a little crazy (but in a good way). :)
But, we didn't have a recent exchange about border security. Or even an old exchange from what I recall.
No, I'm talking about all our exchanges, you pretty much know where I stand... I don't much believe there is a big al-qaeda network. I think most of it has been drummed up. I think the border security and obvious fact that they never intended on doing anything ever says something about the foe they have portrayed this global terror network to be... Really never a care from flight security, to port security to border security, the president has made decisions that scream out loud, he knows what will and won't happen with "the phantom menace" And thank you for the compliment, I too have enjoyed your presence on the boards!!! It's really been a good time looking back...
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No, I'm talking about all our exchanges, you pretty much know where I stand... I don't much believe there is a big al-qaeda network. I think most of it has been drummed up. I think the border security and obvious fact that they never intended on doing anything ever says something about the foe they have portrayed this global terror network to be... Really never a care from flight security, to port security to border security, the president has made decisions that scream out loud, he knows what will and won't happen with "the phantom menace" And thank you for the compliment, I too have enjoyed your presence on the boards!!! It's really been a good time looking back...
Al Qaeda doesn’t really need a huge network to carry out terrorist attacks.
I'm not sure there is a strong relationship between border security and Al Qaeda. Those guys didn't sneak across the border. They came through normal channels from what I recall? What 911 showed is a very small number of terrorists can carry out attacks that can affect the entire country. Increased border security will not really stop those kinds of terrorists. I think that's more relevant to stopping illegal immigration.
I am out . . . worked 15 hours today. Have to go beat my kid in Phase 10 before I catch some sleep and do it all over again tomorrow . . . .
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Al Qaeda doesn’t really need a huge network to carry out terrorist attacks.
I'm not sure there is a strong relationship between border security and Al Qaeda. Those guys didn't sneak across the border. They came through normal channels from what I recall? What 911 showed is a very small number of terrorists can carry out attacks that can affect the entire country. Increased border security will not really stop those kinds of terrorists. I think that's more relevant to stopping illegal immigration.
I am out . . . worked 15 hours today. Have to go beat my kid in Phase 10 before I catch some sleep and do it all over again tomorrow . . . .
I understand your thinking on it and I agree, it's probably not many people, but the fact is, it's been depicted as a global terror network with reach everywhere. That comes from the neocons and this admin. Why would you make everyone go through all these checks at the airport but not give a crap about a very advertised open border? Wait in line for the anal probe but don't look over there at the unchecked masses walking in from Mexico. That makes zero sense and there's a reason why... If Al Qaeda as a global terror network is to be an accurate depiction, border security should have been an issue from day one. They dished the homeland security issue to the people and told us all that everything has change, we just have to put up with less liberty and go through more checks on us. This depiction from the administration does not jive with their attempts to outsource port security to an Arab country and totally ignore border security...
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What I don't understand is how do you declare war on... an adjective? ???
I can understand declaring war on a country, ...but a war on 'terror' ...what is that?
When you declare war on a country, ...or on an army, ...victory is clear, ...but when it's declared on an adjective, ...how do you know when you win or lose? What is winning and what is losing? I would think winning a war on terror is when people stop being fearful, and stop feeling terrorized. Does that mean we win when we walk through the streets with bombs going off and we accept it without flinching, with the same blasé attitude we have when seeing a fender bender during the morning commute... or do we lose the war on terror when people run amok fearful of venturing out of their homes because something bad could happen? How do you declare war on an adjective?
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There is alot of people on here who have only seen the "enemy" on TV. To you, these guys are "over there", and not a threat. Yet they took out three buildings, blew up the Cole, a couple of Embassies, a few other place and they are running operations in Iraq and Afganistan. They are killing your countrymen. All anybody can do is critize Bush like he's the enemy. What exactly will it take to make u guys wake up. As far as the PR deal with AQ. I'm in Information operations. I'm IO qualified, it what I do for the Army now.. They are well ahead of the PR bubble. They use Al Jeezera, they use various arabic web sites to show US troops getting killed. They have an English language website that has popular movie posters, changed to show US troops either killing people, or dying or other things pertaining to the war. They are winning because idiots like Reid fail to see the threat. I don't know what the deal is with border security, Bush has dropped the ball based on to much corporate interests dictating policy. all administrations have this problem. No side in our government has done anything.
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There is alot of people on here who have only seen the "enemy" on TV. To you, these guys are "over there", and not a threat. Yet they took out three buildings, blew up the Cole, a couple of Embassies, a few other place and they are running operations in Iraq and Afganistan. They are killing your countrymen. All anybody can do is critize Bush like he's the enemy. What exactly will it take to make u guys wake up. As far as the PR deal with AQ. I'm in Information operations. I'm IO qualified, it what I do for the Army now.. They are well ahead of the PR bubble. They use Al Jeezera, they use various arabic web sites to show US troops getting killed. They have an English language website that has popular movie posters, changed to show US troops either killing people, or dying or other things pertaining to the war. They are winning because idiots like Reid fail to see the threat. I don't know what the deal is with border security, Bush has dropped the ball based on to much corporate interests dictating policy. all administrations have this problem. No side in our government has done anything.
See Beach, obviously we're suppose to believe this a highly organized global network well funded killing machine... I ask again, if this is the case as pictured by our government, why blow off port and border security from day one???
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Look man, I agree. I think, much like all politicians, that they are talking from both sides of their mouth. I also think we're not all privy to whats going on. The national news is not the best conduit for how and what we're doing in Iraq or Afghanistan. But if u go down this road u end up sounding like a conspiracy nut. AQ is not like "Specter" from James Bond. It works like a clearing house for nutbags. They have their spiritual and economic leader in Bin Laden, they have their operational guys, and they have the camps. Muslim dirtbags get together, go over to the camps, get some training, and return to their countries. Then they come up with their own ideas for attacks. If one sounds good or possible, that gets AQ support. Subject matter experts, cash and supplies are funneled to them. Thats how the fighters operate with the taliban. Taliban leaders who can fight and organize get the support of the foreign fighters with cash and weapons.
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See Beach, obviously we're suppose to believe this a highly organized global network well funded killing machine... I ask again, if this is the case as pictured by our government, why blow off port and border security from day one???
I agree with headhunter. There are problems with border security. There is also a problem with finding the terrorist headquarters. I like the Specter example. I'm a huge James Bond fan. :) The enemy is a moving target. We can build a replica of The Great Wall of China on our borders and I doubt it would have a major impact on terrorism.
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Whats stopping them from blowing up a WalMart in blank, blank, USA? I think what Berserker said is just about dead on...
I realize AQ is a threat, one of the biggest foreign threats. I'm just afraid some of our own federal government is a bigger one at the moment.
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There was a threat to blow up a mall in or near Columbus, Ohio. I was there during that time, not sure what happened. They are worried now that AQ may go that route because its easier, u need less stuff to carry it off and u leave less of a trail. AQ likes spectactular attacks, to cause as much a problem, death etc as possible. The current admin will be gone soon. The Feds will always be a problem, but not like the Islamists.
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there is an AQ and it's bigger today than it ever was. That is the undeniable truth of it.. On 911 it was only a few. Now it is many...
Recipe for forming a Terrorist Organization:
1 part kill maim rape degrade and torture population X
1 part subversive agent in the field putting out the word, AQ is here for you, join here.
Mix Well and you're sure to have a blossoming terror organization where nothing much existed before and the ability to control both sides 8)
Oh yea, don't forget to invest in defense companies...