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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hedgehog on August 02, 2007, 03:54:57 PM
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I think Michael Vick should get a fair treatment by the society, and let the justice system handle the legal aspects, ie take care of whether or not he's guilty, if he's guilty, what sentence he should get.
Those who are without sin, cast the first stone, I say.
In other words, mob behavior aren't worthy of the Western Civilisation. That's something that medieval countries do.
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I believe he is going to get a trial? How are/were his rights being violated?
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I believe he is going to get a trial? How are/were his rights being violated?
Mob like behavior by the crowd.
A senator asking for him to be executed. Hatred spewed towards him in general. Not worthy of a civilized nation.
I doubt Vick would feel safe walking out late in the evening.
And that's really fcuked up.
I don't support his actions. But I support his rights. Every inch of his road to the jail cell. ;)
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A senator asking for him to be executed.
Which senator was that?
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Mob like behavior by the crowd.
A senator asking for him to be executed. Hatred spewed towards him in general. Not worthy of a civilized nation.
I doubt Vick would feel safe walking out late in the evening.
And that's really fcuked up.
I don't support his actions. But I support his rights. Every inch of his road to the jail cell. ;)
Again, what rights are being violated?
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Which senator was that?
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,290061,00.html
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I agree with you in principle HH, but Vick is a pos. He had enough money to do whatever the fuck he wanted to do in his leisure time, but he chose to watch animals kill each other. He is not civilized, so I don't think he should be treated with civility. I am not one of those over the top PETA types by any means, just a guy who loves his dog and wishes Michael Vick a slow and painful death :)
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A senator asking for him to be executed. Hatred spewed towards him in general. Not worthy of a civilized nation.
I doubt Vick would feel safe walking out late in the evening.
And that's really fcuked up.
vick financed the whole bad newz kennel dog fighting operation. he is responsible for breeding, selling, and transportation of dogs for the purpose of fighting. he is responsible for the death of many dogs by electocution, hanging, even slamming them into the ground. without him behind the operation none of this would have happened. the amount of evidence in the 18 page indictment is overwhelming. can you honestly read that idictment and still think he may be a innocent scapegoat in all of this?
the way i see it, even if he gets kicked out of the nfl for life, loses every endorsement dollar, and serves 6 years in prison he is still getting off way to easy.
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I don't see his rights being violated.
Freedom of Speech. :)
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Again, what rights are being violated?
First of all, he deserves a fair trial. And to be judged by the legal system, instead of some crazy mob. Do you think he would be safe walking in neighborhood of dog owners?
There's more too. Lets call it decency. I know it's not in the constitution, but damn it, what the hell is up with all these people making this guys life a total misery, especially when we don't even know all the facts?
Vicks is being harassed by a mindless mob throughout the country, and the decent thing is to step back and let the legal system do its job.
There are some things that separates us from the medieval nations. Not hanging people on sight is one.
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First of all, he deserves a fair trial. And to be judged by the legal system, instead of some crazy mob. Do you think he would be safe walking in neighborhood of dog owners?
There's more too. Lets call it decency. I know it's not in the constitution, but damn it, what the hell is up with all these people making this guys life a total misery, especially when we don't even know all the facts?
Vicks is being harassed by a mindless mob throughout the country, and the decent thing is to step back and let the legal system do its job.
There are some things that separates us from the medieval nations. Not hanging people on sight is one.
I honestly think he would be safe walking anywhere, anytime in America. He lost his endorsement deals cuz he did something stupid, convicted or not. I don't think he is in harms way though.
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vick financed the whole bad newz kennel dog fighting operation. he is responsible for breeding, selling, and transportation of dogs for the purpose of fighting. he is responsible for the death of many dogs by electocution, hanging, even slamming them into the ground. without him behind the operation none of this would have happened. the amount of evidence in the 18 page indictment is overwhelming. can you honestly read that idictment and still think he may be a innocent scapegoat in all of this?
the way i see it, even if he gets kicked out of the nfl for life, loses every endorsement dollar, and serves 6 years in prison he is still getting off way to easy.
Sure, I think he's guilty.
I hope he gets a just trial, and that, after whatever sentance he will get, the public will lay off him.
No, I don't think it's ok to fcuk with dogs. But I definitely believe that once you've done your time, it's only counter-productive for a society to keep on punishing a citizen. Because that will only raise the likelyhood of him/her return to criminality.
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Sure, I think he's guilty.
I hope he gets a just trial, and that, after whatever sentance he will get, the public will lay off him.
No, I don't think it's ok to fcuk with dogs. But I definitely believe that once you've done your time, it's only counter-productive for a society to keep on punishing a citizen. Because that will only raise the likelyhood of him/her return to criminality.
Are you speaking in general about returning to crime or specifically about Vick? There is no reason for him to turn back to crime if he goes to jail. He is worth millions.
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I honestly think he would be safe walking anywhere, anytime in America. He lost his endorsement deals cuz he did something stupid, convicted or not. I don't think he is in harms way though.
You don't think he's in harms way?
Even though you just a minute ago admitted that you wished Vick a slow and painful death?
I'm sure you would never do anything. But are you so sure that everyone are so straight as you dannymate?
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First of all, he deserves a fair trial. And to be judged by the legal system, instead of some crazy mob. Do you think he would be safe walking in neighborhood of dog owners?
There's more too. Lets call it decency. I know it's not in the constitution, but damn it, what the hell is up with all these people making this guys life a total misery, especially when we don't even know all the facts?
Vicks is being harassed by a mindless mob throughout the country, and the decent thing is to step back and let the legal system do its job.
There are some things that separates us from the medieval nations. Not hanging people on sight is one.
He can argue whether his trial was fair when he has it. If anything he may have a case for appeal later on. 8)
You still haven't shown what rights have been violated.
Or do you want to discuss decency instead of rights?
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He can argue whether his trial was fair when he has it. If anything he may have a case for appeal later on. 8)
You still haven't shown what rights have been violated.
Or do you want to discuss decency instead of rights?
I apologize if you couldn't understand me.
I thought I mentioned already that it was more to it than rights:
First of all, he deserves a fair trial. And to be judged by the legal system, instead of some crazy mob. Do you think he would be safe walking in neighborhood of dog owners?
There's more too. Lets call it decency. I know it's not in the constitution, but damn it, what the hell is up with all these people making this guys life a total misery, especially when we don't even know all the facts?
Vicks is being harassed by a mindless mob throughout the country, and the decent thing is to step back and let the legal system do its job.
There are some things that separates us from the medieval nations. Not hanging people on sight is one.
Let me put it this way: I think it's wrong that Vick gets harassed. That he's being the target of some looney witchhunt.
That's what I have a problem with.
Not that he's heading for prison.
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You don't think he's in harms way?
Even though you just a minute ago admitted that you wished Vick a slow and painful death?
I'm sure you would never do anything. But are you so sure that everyone are so straight as you dannymate?
I don't actually wish the guy death, just expressing my anger a bit. I don't know if he is in any real danger tbh. Those PETA types are pretty aggressive with their protests, but I am not sure anyone would hurt the guy, not to mention I am sure he has bodyguards and is careful about where he goes. At any rate, he would be welcomed at any ghetto in the US. Ghetto types think dog fighting is cool in this country.
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Victims of dog fighting.. Yeah, real civil..
One of his buddies is testifying against him too.
(http://www.usanimalprotection.org/gypsy100.jpg)
(http://www.stlawrencevalleyspca.org/assets/images/Victim1.jpg)
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I apologize if you couldn't understand me.
I thought I mentioned already that it was more to it than rights:
Let me put it this way: I think it's wrong that Vick gets harassed. That he's being the target of some looney witchhunt.
That's what I have a problem with.
Not that he's heading for prison.
He isn't getting harassed for christ sake.. ::)
His "people" are playing the race card and saying he's innocent, or that dog fighting is simply not relevant and he's a black man being held down. This is the consensus of the black community.
Protesters outside a courthouse does not mean harassment.
To add, he's given a woman herpes before and his brother has a great track record.
People like Vick are ghetto trash and that's the bottom line.
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I apologize if you couldn't understand me.
I thought I mentioned already that it was more to it than rights:
Let me put it this way: I think it's wrong that Vick gets harassed. That he's being the target of some looney witchhunt.
That's what I have a problem with.
Not that he's heading for prison.
If people are "harrasing" him within the law, then I feel nothing for him. Nor do I think this is a witch hunt.
I do not think that someone could just come up and beat him up or kill him, but someone saying he is a loser I have no problem.
IMO, Being decent IS just keeping it to words and not physical action against him. If it wasn't his house and his "friends" hadn't already spilled their guts about him I might feel differently. But no way he didn't have a CLUE about what was going on at HIS HOUSE.
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He isn't getting harassed for christ sake.. ::)
His "people" are playing the race card and saying he's innocent, or that dog fighting is simply not relevant and he's a black man being held down. This is the consensus of the black community.
Protesters outside a courthouse does not mean harassment.
To add, he's given a woman herpes before and his brother has a great track record.
People like Vick are ghetto trash and that's the bottom line.
His "people" are doing the society a diservice. Didn't "they" learn anything from the OJ debacle? :-\
That shit only infuriated and caused racial tensions.
Everyone needs to calm the fcuk down. Those who are playing the race card for Vick too. That's fcuked up too of course.
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It's fcuking hard to look at those pics, realize what Vick is responsible of, and still stand up for him.
But I believe it's the right thing to do.
With that being said, I hope he gets sentenced.
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It's fcuking hard to look at those pics, realize what Vick is responsible of, and still stand up for him.
But I believe it's the right thing to do.
With that being said, I hope he gets sentenced.
And people have the right to protest as long as they don't harm him.
The public response to this is strong.. He'll be punished even if he doesn't do jail time. He's lost major sponsors and may never play football again.
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His "people" are doing the society a diservice. Didn't "they" learn anything from the OJ debacle? :-\
That shit only infuriated and caused racial tensions.
Everyone needs to calm the fcuk down. Those who are playing the race card for Vick too. That's fcuked up too of course.
I appreciate your integrity and your loyalty to benefit of the doubt.
But you know the same people who are protecting him now thought the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and her bf were perfectly okay because of what happened in the past and because of the supposed biased justice system? These people and their words are of no weight.
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Haha protect his rights he's lucky he has rights, he owns the damn property, well known in dog fighting circuits, what kind of due process legal system is that fucing blind hedge, gone off your rocker on this one. Last time I checked I was allowed to have a mob mentality, which serves its purpose more than history has given it credit it, its the extension of what we call a justice system.
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fuck him....someone should hand his rights right up his ass.
i love this shit..you see it everyday in philly..250 people murdered this year so far---then some junkie stands on the street loaded up on pcp and formaldehyde waving a gun at people..the cops blast his ass and the same friggin people this asshole was waving a gun at yell that this prick's rights were violated...
hedge--some of your shit is right on but you are shooting blanks on this one..
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He can argue whether his trial was fair when he has it. If anything he may have a case for appeal later on. 8)
You still haven't shown what rights have been violated.
Or do you want to discuss decency instead of rights?
~flower~ I think Hedgehog may be referring to his right to "the presumption of innocence until convicted in a court of law by a jury of his peers."
And you're right. With all the clamouring and hyperbole prior to a trial, it has the potential to taint what could otherwise be an impartial jury pool, ...and it could potentially be grounds for an appeal upon any conviction. How pissed would the angry mob be then?
What I don't understand is why it is that anytime a black man is on trial, people bring up OJ Simpson?
Why is that CJ? Could you explain it for me? You did the same thing the other day when they were arresting that cop alledged to have done harm to his pregnant mistress... you brought up OJ. One would think Laci Petersen would have come to mind... afterall, the cases had far more similarity, ...and the Petersen case was more recent.
Just an observation.
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~flower~ I think Hedgehog may be referring to his right to "the presumption of innocence until convicted in a court of law by a jury of his peers."
And you're right. With all the clamouring and hyperbole prior to a trial, it has the potential to taint what could otherwise be an impartial jury pool, ...and it could potentially be grounds for an appeal upon any conviction. How pissed would the angry mob be then?
What I don't understand is why it is that anytime a black man is on trial, people bring up OJ Simpson?
Why is that CJ? Could you explain it for me? You did the same thing the other day when they were arresting that cop alledged to have done harm to his pregnant mistress... you brought up OJ. One would think Laci Petersen would have come to mind... afterall, the cases had far more similarity, ...and the Petersen case was more recent.
Just an observation.
he gets the presumption of innocence in the COURT SYSTEM---The citizens are allowed to make it up in their own minds--and speak it if they like...it's called freedom of speech...he gets his rights and the citizenry gets theirs... no one is holding him prisoner..he's walking around free--something a guilty person doesn't have the right of...Tainted jury huh? show me juries that haven't been tainted...you are naive to believe people don't form their own opinions ten seconds into a trial...
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I appreciate your integrity and your loyalty to benefit of the doubt.
But you know the same people who are protecting him now thought the murder of Nicole Brown Simpson and her bf were perfectly okay because of what happened in the past and because of the supposed biased justice system? These people and their words are of no weight.
Yeah because the officers that beat the shit out of rodney king (ON FUCKIN TAPE) and got off was a perfect example of our fair legal system right ::)
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Yeah because the officers that beat the shit out of rodney king (ON FUCKIN TAPE) and got off was a perfect example of our fair legal system right ::)
so let's let all black men accused of crime go free because of the rodney king crap...makes sense..
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so let's let all black men accused of crime go free because of the rodney king crap...makes sense..
no i didnt say that cha cha. Im not even referring to vick there. Im just commenting on CJ's refrence to the "Supposed" biased justice system, like it dont exist in american history, recent american history at that. Dont be a retard and say that there is no unjust justice system here.
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he gets the presumption of innocence in the COURT SYSTEM---The citizens are allowed to make it up in their own minds--and speak it if they like...it's called freedom of speech...he gets his rights and the citizenry gets theirs... no one is holding him prisoner..he's walking around free--something a guilty person doesn't have the right of...
That's a great point. You're right. There is a distinction between the court system, and the court of public opinion.
Problem is the people in the court system, often come from the general public. :-\ Kind of a catch 22.
Tainted jury huh? show me juries that haven't been tainted...you are naive to believe people don't form their own opinions ten seconds into a trial...
I'm not naive. I'm simply saying that if it can be shown that a jury was compromised prior to deliberation, ...it can have ramifications, and lead to outcomes that certainly wouldn't please those who would have preferred the outcome be different. that's all. Why so angry rocky fortune?
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no i didnt say that cha cha. Im not even referring to vick there. Im just commenting on CJ's refrence to the "Supposed" biased justice system, like it dont exist in american history, recent american history at that. Dont be a retard and say that there is no unjust justice system here.
lol..cha cha...everytime i post with you you call me that...
retard? why, because i am sensible enough to know that no system of justice is fully just and fully righteous? as i said earlier..find me one--you really cannot. What about the duke lacrosse team? there was bias there--just it wasn't against blacks so it really wasn't racist..only when the justice system does it to a black man is there perceived racism or injustice.
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That's a great point. You're right. There is a distinction between the court system, and the court of public opinion.
Problem is the people in the court system, often come from the general public. :-\ Kind of a catch 22.
I'm not naive. I'm simply saying that if it can be shown that a jury was compromised prior to deliberation, ...it can have ramifications, and lead to outcomes that certainly wouldn't please those who would have preferred the outcome be different. that's all. Why so angry rocky fortune?
who is angry? no one exists in a vaccuum and you think that that is the only way someone will get a fair trial...they have a choice--they can either have a jury or a bench trial and leave it up to a judge who is supposed to look at the case based on its merits---you have to trust that the judge will do that just like you have to trust a jury will do that...you can't just trash the justice system because it has been unjust in some instances---if he wasn't michael vick this probably doesn't garner as much publicity as it has---but he is michael vick--and mike vick or ron mexico made his choices and is accused of some heinous shit--if he goes down he goes down because he committed those heinous crimes and not because of the public opinion.
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retard? why, because i am sensible enough to know that no system of justice is fully just and fully righteous? as i said earlier..find me one--you really cannot. What about the duke lacrosse team? there was bias there--just it wasn't against blacks so it really wasn't racist..only when the justice system does it to a black man is there perceived racism or injustice.
Hence the retard title. Look how the Duke lacrosse case turned out. The prosecutor was fired and lost his legal license the case was thrown out of court and the boys received an apology from the district attorney's office.
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no i didnt say that cha cha. Im not even referring to vick there. Im just commenting on CJ's refrence to the "Supposed" biased justice system, like it dont exist in american history, recent american history at that. Dont be a retard and say that there is no unjust justice system here.
The main problem here malcolm, is that instead of fighting the problem at hand, interest organisations choose to fight it when high profile cases arrive.
Which is rather unintelligent, since then it becomes a question of whether the person is guilty or not.
But that doesn't seem to bother these black community profiles who have spoken up playing the race card in cases like OJ Simpson and Vick.
I think that there is a bias AGAINST non-whites in American courts. But it's just a very bad idea to fight it when individual cases arrive.
A think a united effort is needed instead. That has a much greater chance to get the support from the majority of the public, and not just the black, or the hispanic community.
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Hence the retard title. Look how the Duke lacrosse case turned out. The prosecutor was fired and lost his legal license the case was thrown out of court and the boys received an apology from the district attorney's office.
look at the oj simpson verdict..a guilty man was set free..so it works both ways there retard. what? when your point sucks you start calling names...typical 9 year old attitude.
it's ok really..defend slimeballs..and when said slimeball is convicted..don't blame the criminal blame whitey and his corrupt justice system.
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Fine. I apologize for calling you a retard. That wasn't nice.
I have never defended Vick or blamed anything on "Whitey." My post had nothing to do with Vick.
What I was pointing out was the stupidity of arguments like the one you just made:
"Something unfair happened to white people once and something happened in a black guy's favor one time, so that proves that everything is fair." ::)
OJ's ass was saved because he was in the top 1% wealth bracket in this country.
And that Duke case was the worst possible example you could have used. In the Duke case all of the malfeasance and corruption was rectified and the defendants were set free. It's a better example of how the justice system does eventually work if you are white or rich or both.
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Fine. I apologize for calling you a retard. That wasn't nice.
I have never defended Vick or blamed anything on "Whitey." My post had nothing to do with Vick.
What I was pointing out was the stupidity of arguments like the one you just made:
"Something unfair happened to white people once and something happened in a black guy's favor one time, so that proves that everything is fair." ::)
OJ's ass was saved because he was in the top 1% wealth bracket in this country.
And that Duke case was the worst possible example you could have used. In the Duke case all of the malfeasance and corruption was rectified and the defendants were set free. It's a better example of how the justice system does eventually work if you are white or rich or both.
no,no,no...this is not my argument: What I was pointing out was the stupidity of arguments like the one you just made:
"Something unfair happened to white people once and something happened in a black guy's favor one time, so that proves that everything is fair." ::)
sure..but the duke players were all but convicted in the media ala michael vick--although on paper it appears there is much more evidence against vick than there was against the duke dudes..
and no, it's not my argument...my argument is that like it or not not everything is fair even in the justice system and that goes for white people as well as black people---sure we can get into the break down of who is in jail and it is a majority of black people..but just because that is so doesn't make the justice system unfair or biased...just because the court of public opinion chooses to convict the guy now doesn't make a conviction in a court of law down the road unfair, or biased or tainted.
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Okay. Now that I've gone back and read your first post in regards to race, I can't say that I disagree with your initial point. I guess this is what I get for scanning quickly and then posting.
If this was a more expansive conversation on race and the justice system, I have a feeling we would have wildly divergent views, but as it stands, I don't really disagree with most of what you've posted in this thread.