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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: sweetguy081 on August 07, 2007, 10:42:09 PM
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my biceps routine is
BBcurls 3x10
DB Curls 3x10
Preacher Curls 3x10
Reverse BB curls 2x10
CG Bench Press 3x10
Skull Crusher 3x10
Overhead Tri Ext. 3x10
My problem is i hit the plateau and my outer bicep is week and i train my arms once a week. What should i do to break a plateau and develop my outer biceps. My bicep size is 15.23 inch. I want to gain size.
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my biceps routine is
BBcurls 3x10
DB Curls 3x10
Preacher Curls 3x10
Reverse BB curls 2x10
CG Bench Press 3x10
Skull Crusher 3x10
Overhead Tri Ext. 3x10
My problem is i hit the plateau and my outer bicep is week and i train my arms once a week. What should i do to break a plateau and develop my outer biceps. My bicep size is 15.23 inch. I want to gain size.
WAY too many sets for biceps for one. Even if you work your back, you need to cut those sets down to about 5-7 TOTAL! Just rotate your exercise choices to always give your bi's something new to look at. Your tri routine could be chopped down a little bit. How long have you been training? Are you noticing any gains what so ever in strength at all too. You took the right approach in attacking the outter head and brachialis to add additional arm size. THe more muscles in the arm you develop obviously the larger it'll get. The best exercises I've found to hit your arms outer head and brachialis are reverse grip curls like your'e doing and hammer curls across your chest. Too many people do hammer curls like a normal bicep curl. When yo do it like that it just hits the bicep, when you come along the front of your chest, the brachialis and outer head of the bicep take up much of the grunt work.
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I am working with this workout for last 3 months and I gained bicep size with this and strength too. But now my size gain stopped does this means to change the workout routine or take a week off
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Me thinks 10 rep sets are to high for biceps. I would try some hammer curls and do them first in your routine... here is an example of a Arm Routine.
Hammer curls
1 set warmup(10-12 reps)
2 set working(4-6 reps)
Skull crushers
1 set warmup(10-12 reps)
2 sets working(4-6 reps)
Barbell curls
2 sets working(6 reps)
pushdowns
2 sets working(6 reps)
DB curls
2 sets working(4-6 reps)
dip machine
2 sets working(4-6 reps)
heavy and short rests...
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As small as you are, I would suggest not having a 'bicep routine' at all, and instead focus on getting bigger.
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As small as you are, I would suggest not having a 'bicep routine' at all, and instead focus on getting bigger.
gimmick...
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As small as you are, I would suggest not having a 'bicep routine' at all, and instead focus on getting bigger.
aside from the "as small as you are" comment, he's pretty right on. Most arm size comes with overall body size, any dude knows how to do curls but most have a hard time eating and training for size.
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aside from the "as small as you are" comment, he's pretty right on. Most arm size comes with overall body size, any dude knows how to do curls but most have a hard time eating and training for size.
but how is NOT training your biceps going to make them larger...That part I don't agree with.
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but how is NOT training your biceps going to make them larger...That part I don't agree with.
I know a lot of people who don't do DIRECT bicep training that get plenty of work on them and have big arms, I think that's what he was referring to. Focus on bigger bodyparts and the arms will follow.
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I know a lot of people who don't do DIRECT bicep training that get plenty of work on them and have big arms, I think that's what he was referring to. Focus on bigger bodyparts and the arms will follow.
so you would chalk that up to genetics at all? example: I have never trained my forearms a day in my life and they have always been proportional. My dad and grandmother both have really big forearms, always have. I think that has more to do with genetics... if the guy already has some inbalance in his bi's then not training them is just going to make it worse.
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As small as you are, I would suggest not having a 'bicep routine' at all, and instead focus on getting bigger.
Benefits come both from direct and indirect exercises; cover both bases with some direct work for every area and a few overall movements.
-Too many sets. Do 4-6 sets for each muscle, focus on...
-Increasing intensity with the idea that you have to get the reps and weight up to improve, bottom line. Use some cheats at the end of sets to increase the muscle exhaustion and improve the numbers.
-Increase workout frequency to twice weekly per muscle. Rest a minute max between sets and hit positive failure on most sets.
-Diet - if you're not gaining fairly "good" bodyweight at the same time you arm size isn't going to go up much. Find a bulk, relatively cheap but quality weight gain powder to mix into liquids between meals to increase the intake.
-Exercises - use those that you feel in the bis, not what the book says.
-Once every couple of weeks use compound supersets, two consecutive exercises for the same muscle.
-If you feel stale take a week's break before starting then be serious in terms of improving your numbers and diet.
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so you would chalk that up to genetics at all? example: I have never trained my forearms a day in my life and they have always been proportional. My dad and grandmother both have really big forearms, always have. I think that has more to do with genetics... if the guy already has some inbalance in his bi's then not training them is just going to make it worse.
Good point, I wasn't going to bring genetics into it but that could very well be the case. For the most part, i'm assuming his ENTIRE body isn't growing, therefore his biceps aren't. You can increase your biceps with specific routines/exercises and good nutrition but I'm just promoting overall growth to cover your basis. But remember, DIRECT bicep training is not the only way to get them to grow.
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Good point, I wasn't going to bring genetics into it but that could very well be the case. For the most part, i'm assuming his ENTIRE body isn't growing, therefore his biceps aren't. You can increase your biceps with specific routines/exercises and good nutrition but I'm just promoting overall growth to cover your basis. But remember, DIRECT bicep training is not the only way to get them to grow.
Believe me, I am not trying to bust your balls, but I was just answering within the context of the topic. I do agree with your statement about Direct bicep training...
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outer bis..
camber bar curls
and hammer curls
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but how is NOT training your biceps going to make them larger...That part I don't agree with.
I didn't say anything about not training biceps. I said having a 'bicep routine' is pointless when you are that small.
I'm significantly bigger than the OP, and have much larger arms. I don't have a 'bicep routine', but I do train them - 3-6 sets of curls a week, depending. (Sometimes it's none, sometimes it's more). You train your biceps doing lots of stuff, rows, chins, even benching. My point is that instead of worrying about the 'outer bicep' (which is a bodybuilding myth, anyway), worry about getting so big people stop and say 'holy shit that guy's big'.
Then worry about your 'outer biceps'.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume the OP and dizzle are not competitive bodybuilders. If you aren't - there's really no point in worrying about this shit, even if you are freaking huge.
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I also found that doing preacher curls with the hands on kink of the EZ-curl bar has had good results. Just making sure you keep the shoulds out of it, and do weight that you can handle for good reps. Ain't nothin worse than seeing a dude with small arms loading up the bar to do struggling to do half reps on the preacher curls.
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I didn't say anything about not training biceps. I said having a 'bicep routine' is pointless when you are that small.
I'm significantly bigger than the OP, and have much larger arms. I don't have a 'bicep routine', but I do train them - 3-6 sets of curls a week, depending. (Sometimes it's none, sometimes it's more). You train your biceps doing lots of stuff, rows, chins, even benching. My point is that instead of worrying about the 'outer bicep' (which is a bodybuilding myth, anyway), worry about getting so big people stop and say 'holy shit that guy's big'.
Then worry about your 'outer biceps'.
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and assume the OP and dizzle are not competitive bodybuilders. If you aren't - there's really no point in worrying about this shit, even if you are freaking huge.
All I am saying is...in your theory, you are leaving out a very important factory. Genetics... It makes a difference. Just because you can train your arms w/ 3-6 sets of curls a week and they are proportional doesn't main someone else can do the same thing and have the same results. "outer biceps" isn't a bodybuilding myth, and there are exercises to predominantly work this area. What does in matter if we are competetive or not. I was answering the question inside of the context given... You are trying to impose your beliefs out of the context. all you say is he needs to work on gettin bigger, but maybe he doesn't want to get bigger....maybe he just wants to bring up a lagging area...hope this helps.
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If he has 15 inch biceps and weighs 240 pounds at 10% bodyfat, then yes, he needs to bring up his biceps.
If he's 180 pounds, he needs to get bigger.
Please explain, using physiology, how you could train your 'outer biceps', including how insertion points, origin points and innervation all affect the training response.
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If he has 15 inch biceps and weighs 240 pounds at 10% bodyfat, then yes, he needs to bring up his biceps.
If he's 180 pounds, he needs to get bigger.
Please explain, using physiology, how you could train your 'outer biceps', including how insertion points, origin points and innervation all affect the training response.
Well if I had my my A&P text book at work or if I had time I would. Training the outer head of the bicep(brachialis Major) has to do with the supernation of your lower arm. Thus, this is why hammer curls activate the brachialis. Now there is no exercise that soley trains the brachialis, but Hammer curls do activate this muscle more than if you were to supernate your wrist like a standard dumbell curl. hope this helps.
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How is that possible? Don't the two heads of the bicep share an insertion point at the elbow, making any change at the elbow or wrist meaningless? What about innervation?
You might want to doublecheck your textbook.
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I agree that certain exercises hit some areas more in practice, not theory. For example, pushdowns and close-grips are never going to build the largest part of the triceps no matter what.
The idea that if he's small his body follows a different set of training fundamentals is something i've never believed. Use the same principles on any physique; direct and indirect movements, the key being progressive increases in weight in both cases to create increases in size.
Just my opinions.
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try Girondas 6x6 with preacher curl with EZ bar , close grip , and do this 2-3 times a week
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try Girondas 6x6 with preacher curl with EZ bar , close grip , and do this 2-3 times a week
Preacher curl is a classic example of a direct isolation movement that will put on size as well or in fact better than indirect movements.
If indirect compound movement were just as good, there would be all sorts of BBs with great arms who followed this only, and there aren't.
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the brachialis connects lower on the forearm than the two bicep heads and is a more powerful flexor because of that. if you supernate your wrist(palms facing up) it decreases it activation because of the shift of your radius and ulna. although because it is the arms most powerful flexor it provides most of the power in all bicep movements....
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The brachialis is not the outer head of the biceps, it is another muscle altogether. Changing something at the wrist or elbow will indeed change the primary mover to a certain extent.
But it won't change which head of the biceps is emphasised.
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Preacher curl is a classic example of a direct isolation movement that will put on size as well or in fact better than indirect movements.
If indirect compound movement were just as good, there would be all sorts of BBs with great arms who followed this only, and there aren't.
There aren't? You sure?
You should reread my post. Again: I did not say don't do direct arm work. I did say that if you are 180 pounds and are taller than about 5'4", doing direct arm work should not be your priority, nor should you spend any time worrying about hitting your outer biceps or whatever. Do a couple of sets of curls a couple of times a week and be done with it.
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I agree that certain exercises hit some areas more in practice, not theory. For example, pushdowns and close-grips are never going to build the largest part of the triceps no matter what.
hey pumpster
could you give us some more exercises of this nature (e.g. that will ' build the largest part of the triceps')
ive noticed also, that although you can move more weight on close grip benches, they only hit such a small part of the tris and dont add mass to the thick head down the inside.
i have always thought that certain exercises are worth more than others even though they dont if in with the text book 'mass building' stuff
so what exercises would you say hit the parts of muscles which will really add size / make an impact for the size that they add?
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I am wondering this too- would the longest head be trained better by something like skullcrushers and/or overhead triceps extensions?
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There aren't? You sure?
You should reread my post. Again: I did not say don't do direct arm work. I did say that if you are 180 pounds and are taller than about 5'4", doing direct arm work should not be your priority, nor should you spend any time worrying about hitting your outer biceps or whatever. Do a couple of sets of curls a couple of times a week and be done with it.
I don't think much of your arbitrary statistical rules. ;D Training fundamentals don't change because of height/weight nor has there ever been a rule about doing direct arm work. I have no idea where you came up with those wacky numbers
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hey pumpster
could you give us some more exercises of this nature (e.g. that will ' build the largest part of the triceps')
ive noticed also, that although you can move more weight on close grip benches, they only hit such a small part of the tris and dont add mass to the thick head down the inside.
i have always thought that certain exercises are worth more than others even though they dont if in with the text book 'mass building' stuff
so what exercises would you say hit the parts of muscles which will really add size / make an impact for the size that they add?
Extensions, anything where the elbows are raised up near the shoulders; the larger long triceps head attaches to the shoulder not the arm like the medial and lateral heads, and requires this arm position to be activated fully.
Lying on a flat or slightly declined/inclined bench, seated leaning back with back braced or various angles using cables. Compounds like close-grips, dips & bench dips hit primarily the smaller medial & lateral heads on the sides of the arms.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=136443.0
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=157319.0
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I don't think much of your arbitrary statistical rules. ;D Training fundamentals don't change because of height/weight nor has there ever been a rule about doing direct arm work. I have no idea where you came up with those wacky numbers
Are you serious?
Training absolutley changes based on how advanced you are, and one of the ways you tell how advanced you are (as a bodybuilder) is how much muscle you have gained.
Again, I didn't say don't do arm work. Are my posts somehow being translated into another language? WTF are you talking about 'a rule about doing direct arm work'?
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Are you serious?
Training absolutley changes based on how advanced you are, and one of the ways you tell how advanced you are (as a bodybuilder) is how much muscle you have gained.
Again, I didn't say don't do arm work. Are my posts somehow being translated into another language? WTF are you talking about 'a rule about doing direct arm work'?
First of all chill on the tough-guy stuff, it's boring.
As far as the rest, i completely understood; the problem is that what i'm saying seems to be going over your head.
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hey thanks for the info pumpster,
what else do you think for other bodyparts, exercise that are not exactly 'tezxt book' mass building movements BUT do work extremely well.
for example
chest
shoulders
Also, do you think gaining strenght in big movements e.g. bench press, pull ups is a good way to go? i ahve tried this method in the past, and have gotten stronger and stronger, but no real size gains on one b/p a week training. (diet was in place)
thanks man
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a really awesome way to work out the outer bicep is doing double bicep flex curls on the pulleys with a single hand straight grip attachment on each end of the pulleys with a reverse grip.(that might be confusing but its the best way i could explain it)
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hey thanks for the info pumpster,
what else do you think for other bodyparts, exercise that are not exactly 'tezxt book' mass building movements BUT do work extremely well.
for example
chest
shoulders
Also, do you think gaining strenght in big movements e.g. bench press, pull ups is a good way to go? i ahve tried this method in the past, and have gotten stronger and stronger, but no real size gains on one b/p a week training. (diet was in place)
thanks man
Read some of the old threads!
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lol
i have been, but trawling through almost 13500 posts is no mean feat!!!
thanks all the same.
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lol
i have been, but trawling through almost 13500 posts is no mean feat!!!
thanks all the same.
Just do a search within any board on whatever criteria.