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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: WOOO on August 10, 2007, 03:33:18 PM
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Without any of those, how would you design a power back routine...
maybe 5 exercises, 4 sets each...
any ideas?
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Without those, I would take up golf, or maybe mall walking.
What excuse are you using for not doing them?
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Without those, I would take up golf, or maybe mall walking.
What excuse are you using for not doing them?
i have a back issue that prevents me from going heavy with them... i still do deads but at the end of the workout so i am fatigued and go lighter
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What medical professional diagnosed your problem? What exactly is the problem?
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i have a back issue that prevents me from going heavy with them... i still do deads but at the end of the workout so i am fatigued and go lighter
Dont worry.....you will be alright....just remember to ice your back then go STRAIGHT into your heavy deads. Your back has been messed up for 2 yrs....it cant get worse. Remember, the longer you ignore the problem the better off it will be. Sooner or later you wont even notice you're hurt. In fact.....I would start to do good mornings with 315+ to start your back workout so that you will warm the muscles up fully!!!!
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Dont worry.....you will be alright....just remember to ice your back then go STRAIGHT into your heavy deads. Your back has been messed up for 2 yrs....it cant get worse. Remember, the longer you ignore the problem the better off it will be. Sooner or later you wont even notice you're hurt. In fact.....I would start to do good mornings with 315+ to start your back workout so that you will warm the muscles up fully!!!!
blow me :-*
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blow me :-*
Sorry....would that happen before or after you whine and cry about your poor hurt back?
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Without any of those, how would you design a power back routine...
maybe 5 exercises, 4 sets each...
any ideas?
Here - support that low back. Do NOTHING to aggravate it if you've a problem there.
Hammer rows & pulldowns.
High Bench rows and various extensions.
Pulldowns if you can find a grip that dont cause probs.
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Here - support that low back. Do NOTHING to aggravate it if you've a problem there.
Hammer rows & pulldowns.
High Bench rows and various extensions.
Pulldowns if you can find a grip that dont cause probs.
thank ron... someone with a brain
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thank ron... someone with a brain
http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=4108&tid=113
Reverse hypers are a possability, check w/ your Dr.
You can do them simply on a high bench, or a large stability ball. No weight, to heavy boots, to Chain around ankles will copy that expensive piece of equipment.
First make sure your ok to do them. This will help strengthen and stabalize low back.
Also No weight to low weight box squats. Sit BACK onto the box,
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lots of chins, curl grip and palms away grip, close grip chins, machine rows, pull overs.
i would do
chins 4 sets max
pull overs 3 x 8-10
low cable rows 3 x 8-10
pull downs 3 x 10-12
(insert your deads here)
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thank ron... someone with a brain
Yeah, because you obviously dont. People with 10x the experience you do try and help you yet you dont listen. Follow the advice of your signature under your avatar.
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pullups.
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Yup chins, but I believe you should still train your lower back lightly or it will just carry on getting weaker with time.
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I agree w/ Bluto & Powerpack on chins/ Ppullups, but, many arch the low back doing them.
Get a real good read on what is realy up in your low back. Bitch and complain till your DR does a MRI.
Fucking demand one if you got insh or can afford it. Low back prob is nothing to screw with.
It will follow you for life if you do it wrong.
My low back is trash from decades of const work. I can do very heavy pulldowns where I Use just enough momentum at the start to Lean way back with my low back locked, and as straight as I can keep it.
I contract and hold the bar at the chest.
Basicly, Im doing like a bent over BB row, but off the cable. If we love this shit, we find way to keep on.
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Trab speaks from experience; i've said this so has Vince Basile who whatever you make of him has plenty of experience and hates deads. Deads, rows anything that aggrevates the lower back aren't necessary.
Do not try to "work thru" problematic exercises, find alternative exercises or variations on existing ones, keeping the reps high & rests between sets fairly low, to keep the back warm. Such as:
-Hypers
-Rack pulls instead of deads, using high reps and/or cables or bands
-Back-braced lat work: in the case of rows instead of barbell rows t-bars, 1-arm DB, DB/BB rows while lying face-down on a bench, hammer rows, etc. Having the back braced not only minimizes back strain it also isolates the lats better.
-Forgo direct lower-back motions altogether, letting indirect exercises do the work - squats for example will work the lower back, so will cleans. Same rule applies, keep the reps higher.
-High reps at all times, with low rest times between sets to keep intensity up at lower weight and to keep the back warm.
Because once it's FU it's hard to get it back to normal, and direct lower back work can easily create problems especially when going heavy. Keep the reps high.
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So a good back routine would include sets each or some workouts, involving:
-Pulldowns or chins
-Rows of some type
-Pullovers
Then add in some high-rep lower back work or cover it thru indirect compounds such as squats or cleans.
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It's like a festival of stupidity.
What is wrong with your back? What doctor diagnosed the problem, and what EXACTLY is the problem?
None of these internet experts can give you advice worth shit if they don't know the answers to these questions, and anyone who DOES give advice without knowing the answers to these questions has no idea what they are talking about.
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It's like a festival of stupidity.
What is wrong with your back? What doctor diagnosed the problem, and what EXACTLY is the problem?
None of these internet experts can give you advice worth shit if they don't know the answers to these questions, and anyone who DOES give advice without knowing the answers to these questions has no idea what they are talking about.
Chill on the hostility.
In this thread there's only been good advice other than one that is tongue in cheek. Advice borne of copious experience the hard way. The point is that these suggestions can apply to anyone with or without current problems, to lower the probability of future problems.
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It's like a festival of stupidity.
What is wrong with your back? What doctor diagnosed the problem, and what EXACTLY is the problem?
None of these internet experts can give you advice worth shit if they don't know the answers to these questions, and anyone who DOES give advice without knowing the answers to these questions has no idea what they are talking about.
The only stupidity I see here is comments like yours.
Several have told him to find whats up w/ the Dr. Thats unspoken common sense.
If your back is not hurt, you have no idea what dealing w/ one is like.
I'd like to watch you load 3-6 42gal barrels of sand texture in a step van with a simple barrel cart and ramp regularly for years. Then go spray it. I doubt you'd last a morning.
Why the hate? He's got a lot of good advice here. esp the pics of supported row movements.
No need to quit lifting prolly. Again, do get more than 1 medical opinion on a low back problem.
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The only stupidity I see here is comments like yours.
Several have told him to find whats up w/ the Dr. Thats unspoken common sense.
If your back is not hurt, you have no idea what dealing w/ one is like.
I'd like to watch you load 3-6 42gal barrels of sand texture in a step van with a simple barrel cart and ramp regularly for years. Then go spray it. I doubt you'd last a morning.
Why the hate? He's got a lot of good advice here. esp the pics of supported row movements.
No need to quit lifting prolly. Again, do get more than 1 medical opinion on a low back problem.
Trab....the 'hostility' that I exhibit is borne out of Woo's basic ignorance when several (three or more) tried to give him advice on how to fix and improve his low back. I am far from an internet expert. Its my 'off-line' career. We gave him advice that Louie Simmons gives people. We gave him advice that Paul Chek gives people. We gave him advice that Charles Poliquin gives people. We gave him real-world experience answers from treating patients and clients. Woo seems to think that our advice is worthless. Why complain about a problem, be offered a solution, then say that the people offering the solution are idiots? Simple....easier to complain about the problem then actually do something about it.
As far as an MRI is concerned...due to cost and the fact that MD's, DC's, and DO's are taught that you work least invasive so most invasive, as well as least costly to most costly (thank you insurance companies)....I am sure that is why people have such a hard-ass time getting them. Would it be better to have one off the bat? Probably. But in some cases an MRI doesnt show what is probably wrong. If they were 100%....I am sure they would be in the first line of diagnostic studies.
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Trab....the 'hostility' that I exhibit is borne out of Woo's basic ignorance when several (three or more) tried to give him advice on how to fix and improve his low back. I am far from an internet expert. Its my 'off-line' career. We gave him advice that Louie Simmons gives people. We gave him advice that Paul Chek gives people. We gave him advice that Charles Poliquin gives people. We gave him real-world experience answers from treating patients and clients. Woo seems to think that our advice is worthless. Why complain about a problem, be offered a solution, then say that the people offering the solution are idiots? Simple....easier to complain about the problem then actually do something about it.
As far as an MRI is concerned...due to cost and the fact that MD's, DC's, and DO's are taught that you work least invasive so most invasive, as well as least costly to most costly (thank you insurance companies)....I am sure that is why people have such a hard-ass time getting them. Would it be better to have one off the bat? Probably. But in some cases an MRI doesnt show what is probably wrong. If they were 100%....I am sure they would be in the first line of diagnostic studies.
Ok Fair enough, but give him a break. Fucked up back is no fun.
I know all to well about the Medical system. Demand that F'n MRI and get it. Make sure theres not hard dammage vissible. Yes MRI is far from perfect and most likely will not show his problem, but I have low back issues and no amout of money is worth not knowing as much as possible WHY it hurts.
Drs are far from perfect. Im not sure how much hes done to find the cause, but fact is many times, they cant tell us.
Then all you can do is train around it as you may. Thats what everyones tried to help him with.
I just see more value in helping others than putting them Down, like so many assholes on GB live for .
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My point is that advice for someone with a herniated disc is not the same as someone with a muscle cramp. It's irresponsible to give any advice not knowing what's wrong. You could cripple someone with a serious injury.
I'm also deliberately harsh because I'm certain that the OP has not been to a doctor, and has no idea what's wrong with his back. I would futher bet that there isn't much wrong (I've had low back issues that were not all that severe, and it hurt so bad I couldn't get off the sofa, much less try to figure out how to work around it); that he's got some soreness, probably from shitty form, and he's looking for an excuse not to deadlift, row, squat, etc. forcing the issue will help identify that.
But I'm a mean, old, cynical bastard.
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My point is that advice for someone with a herniated disc is not the same as someone with a muscle cramp. It's irresponsible to give any advice not knowing what's wrong. You could cripple someone with a serious injury.
What you're missing is that it *is* possible to give options, and that others reading this will apply it to their own situations. It's good general advice for anyone.
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My point is that advice for someone with a herniated disc is not the same as someone with a muscle cramp. It's irresponsible to give any advice not knowing what's wrong. You could cripple someone with a serious injury.
I'm also deliberately harsh because I'm certain that the OP has not been to a doctor, and has no idea what's wrong with his back.
But I'm a mean, old, cynical bastard.
Im a mean old cynical bastard too, I try to fight it ;D.
I agree.
NUMBER ONE THING - GET IT LOOKED AT BY THE Doc!!
But, Ive been thru the mill of our "Health Care System" and its a sorry ass business.
If that back has been hurtin long term, I dont care what anyone says. Get it X-ray'd and MRI'd.
Rule out what you can. Low back injuries are for life.
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Of course it would be helpful if we knew the cause affect of Wooo back problem(s); muscle, spine, joint, nerve damage, etc. Lower, middle or upper back? And does overhead pressing cause back pain? But anyway I'm going with the idea that's it's the lower back causing trouble.
Might consider chins as opposed to pulldowns. With chins you are moving a body through space. Allowing, for the most part, less stress on the lower back. With pulldowns you are forced to anchor down the lower body. That pivot point on the lower back is receiving unneeded stress. Even those bench/incline rows (pictured) can affect the lower back of some people by the simple act of holding the body/back in a firm position (like in the DL where the back is holding the body in position while the legs are doing the actual lifting from the floor). For the time being you might want to avoid any form of bent over rowing until the back is normal.
Another benefit of chins is that they can help stretch the whole back, helping with a natural alinement. Rope climbing ( leg straight out) is an excellent back (and bicep) exercise, though few men have the opportunity to do this exercise. Chins are a mass builder when done right, with experimenting with different hand spacings. And adding weight when ever possible.
Pullovers are also a excellent back exercise, with less stress on the lower back when the knees are drawn up during the movement. This position also give a better stretch to the lats/back/rib box because the ab's are more relaxed (less pull from them) than when the legs are stretched out. GM'ing are also good, but just use the bar for higher reps to start with. Probably a couple sets of 50's. May seem like sissy stuff, bar only, but you want to bring more flexability and more healing blood to the lower back area. In fact I would doubt that not too many men who come to this site could do a 100 rep set of GM'ing without stopping. But do add weight as the lower back becomes stronger.
Might try chins follower by pullovers (bent or straight armed). Or a set of pullovers before chins. Pullovers are one of my favorite exercises and have gotten some good results with a set of straight are pullovers (lighter weight..7-10 reps) immediately followed by a set of bent arm pullovers (heavier weight...7-10 reps). Either BB or DB's with pullovers. DB's seem to give me a better stretch. Good Luck.
Side Bar: if the injury lingers, staying about the same, than rest would be advised. That and seeing a sports doctor.
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Im a mean old cynical bastard too, I try to fight it ;D.
I agree.
NUMBER ONE THING - GET IT LOOKED AT BY THE Doc!!
But, Ive been thru the mill of our "Health Care System" and its a sorry ass business.
If that back has been hurtin long term, I dont care what anyone says. Get it X-ray'd and MRI'd.
Rule out what you can. Low back injuries are for life.
The problem is this....Woo wants exercises to 'fix' his low back. He also seems to want to continually complain about his problem.
Regarding what you do with a 'cramp' versus a herniation. Well, in any type of low back injury (either acute or chronic) certain things overlap. These are the things Woo is being told....yet doesnt want to open his ears to hear.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=162854.0;attach=187563;image)
Now, that right there looks like something worth experimenting with if lower back pain is an issue. Nearly zero stress on the lower back.
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Now, that right there looks like something worth experimenting with if lower back pain is an issue. Nearly zero stress on the lower back.
Actually that's a great lat workout with or without back problems, and can be done using DBs as well. I think it hits the lats better than BB rows, which i did for years and put close to last relative to other exercises.
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What you're missing is that it *is* possible to give options, and that others reading this will apply it to their own situations. It's good general advice for anyone.
Not even a little bit. But OK.
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Not even a little bit. But OK.
I forgot that you're always right. Thanks for the reminder.
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=162854.0;attach=187563;image)
Now, that right there looks like something worth experimenting with if lower back pain is an issue. Nearly zero stress on the lower back.
My low back is trash. I screwed together a high-bench along the lines of this bench in about 45 min with a screw-gun and about $20 worth of 2 x 4s from Home Depot.
THat movement puts ZERO stress on the low back. I use DBs and drop them on pads at failure.
Can raise the front with 2x12" blocks to change angle.
Mine is high enough to also do Reverse-Hyper type leg raises also.
Get injured? Get Creative.
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The problem is this....Woo wants exercises to 'fix' his low back. He also seems to want to continually complain about his problem.
please show me where i said this...
i said i had to work around a chronic problem... you must be the dumbest physio ever... a potential patient (low potential) says "x" and you say no it's "y" without listening...
thanks to pumpster and the rest who has inserted interesting ideas