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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: NoCalBbEr on August 19, 2007, 02:37:23 PM
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I was curious, what is the best flye movement to do to improve the inner chest?? I've heard that pec deck or crossovers works works.but does the dumbbell flyes work as well or I have to do pec deck or crossovers to fill in the inner pec more??
I freaked up myself but doing all pressing movement instead of including flyes in my chest workout. now i know that flyes works across the chest and presses work up and down the chest.
I got a huge outer chest but I have to work on inner chest..
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i hear you there bro,my chest is around 54" but lacked in the middle,because all i did was flat,incline and decline bench,so i started cable crossovers and it really thickened up after a few months.
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i hear you there bro,my chest is around 54" but lacked in the middle,because all i did was flat,incline and decline bench,so i started cable crossovers and it really thickened up after a few months.
my favorite option is a pec deck / machine fly machine where you can grip the handle (with your arms straight)... forget about the amount of weight and focus on the contraction
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thank god I moved to a new gym that has like three different kinds pec decks. the one at my old gym was the bent arm kind.. I really didn't like it. i felt more in the delts then my chest
I'm going to try the hammer style pec decks that can also be used for rear delts
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thank god I moved to a new gym that has like three different kinds pec decks. the one at my old gym was the bent arm kind.. I really didn't like it. i felt more in the delts then my chest
I'm going to try the hammer style pec decks that can also be used for rear delts
that's the one i am talking about
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i hear you there bro,my chest is around 54" but lacked in the middle,because all i did was flat,incline and decline bench,so i started cable crossovers and it really thickened up after a few months.
I call bullshit. You had a complete chest routine and I HIGHTLY doubt that adding cable crossovers had ANYTHING to do with "thickening" up your chest. Did you change your whole routine? Maybe it was your diet? Supplementation?
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my inner chest got a lot thicker from doing cable crossovers,no diet change whatsoever.not that big of a deal.
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my inner chest got a lot thicker from doing cable crossovers,no diet change whatsoever.not that big of a deal.
sometimes it has more to do with your mental focus... if cable cross-overs or pec deck or whatever helps build your inner chest keep doing it
i know that when i do these movements i am much more aware of my innner chest contraction compared to when i am pressing.
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Lee haney responded to the same question in flex:
he said use bumbell presses, but squeeze like crazy at the apex (top) of the exercise. you may need to use lighter weight, but i feel really sore in the inner chest the next day.
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dont listen to these douchebags. you CN build up your chest from ANY resistance movement that puts stress on the pectorial muscles. a muscle contraction is a muscle contraction. PERIOD. if you put enough weight on the cable stacks, you can build just as much muscle; but in a different area of the chest; as you can with bench press. because....a MUSCLE CONTRACTION IS A MUSCLE CONTRACTION. cable flys put more stress on the inside of the pectorial muscle, but still make the whole muscle fire; where as bench press puts more stress on the outer portion of the chest, but still makes the muscle fire. ..
start out with cable crossovers and go HEAVY. if you need to you can pin extra 45 pound plates into the pulley weight stacks. just be careful not to injure your rotator cuff, and to make sure that the chets is doign the work, not your front delts.
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douch, you are saying the same thing we just said.
yes, a contraction is a contraction, but its pretty accepted that wide grip BP works outer chest MORE, and close grip works inner MORE. yes the whole chest is working, but the concentration is on different parts. Thats just like saying one back exercise works the WHOLE back equally.
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douch, you are saying the same thing we just said.
yes, a contraction is a contraction, but its pretty accepted that wide grip BP works outer chest MORE, and close grip works inner MORE. yes the whole chest is working, but the concentration is on different parts. Thats just like saying one back exercise works the WHOLE back equally.
close grip bench press works the triceps more, and makes it harder to really get a good chest workout.
goign extremely heavy with intense concentration on working your mind-muscle connection using all of your pecs to do the movement.....and letting your arms fully extend at the elbow, while using your hands as hooks; contracting your chest to pull the upper arm down on the elbow joint wich is locked out so transfers to force from the contraction to the hand which is gripped onto a handle, where the forces of the chest contraction slides up the pulley rope and down to the weight stack.
do that shit.
"douche".. yeah, lol. bro; i am 18 years old and my level of intellect is at least triple yours. i dont give a fuck how you measure it...mine will be triple what yours is. its science.
now go kill yourself for trying to respond to something i have said.
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douch, you are saying the same thing we just said.
yes, a contraction is a contraction, but its pretty accepted that wide grip BP works outer chest MORE, and close grip works inner MORE. yes the whole chest is working, but the concentration is on different parts. Thats just like saying one back exercise works the WHOLE back equally.
I hate to say it but I agree with Candidate but it's only 1 Muscle, Pectoralis Major where the back is a few different muslces that can be worked with different grips and angles.
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I hate to say it but I agree with Candidate but it's only 1 Muscle, Pectoralis Major where the back is a few different muslces that can be worked with different grips and angles.
mike, dont worry about it; to agree with me is to accept a truth.
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lol at th douche. your level of intellect? hahaha. u are 18!!! i am 28 with not only a master degree but a MD degree as well. but no you are correct, your intellect is far superior! Did you even graduate high school yet?
as for the other douche, lol, the pec is 2 muscles! there is also a pectoralis minor, located more in the upper chest. but thats a different story.
whats funny here is that we all say different excerises HIT different areas of a muscle. then canditit tit comes on and says it hits the whole muscle, but more so on one area. SAME DAMN THING RETARD. we say 1+1= 2 and canditit comes on and says no, 3-1=2. hope you gaduate. you are most likely a democrat. hahahaha.
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I have to agree with Lee Haney over some 18 yr old douche who enjoys "science." Flat bench dumbell and squeeze like hell at the top. I feel much more sore on the inner pecs when I do that. Flys are good too, but you must contract fully at the downswing.
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lol at th douche. your level of intellect? hahaha. u are 18!!! i am 28 with not only a master degree but a MD degree as well. but no you are correct, your intellect is far superior! Did you even graduate high school yet?
as for the other douche, lol, the pec is 2 muscles! there is also a pectoralis minor, located more in the upper chest. but thats a different story.
whats funny here is that we all say different excerises HIT different areas of a muscle. then canditit tit comes on and says it hits the whole muscle, but more so on one area. SAME DAMN THING RETARD. we say 1+1= 2 and canditit comes on and says no, 3-1=2. hope you gaduate. you are most likely a democrat. hahahaha.
i didnt ontradict anything any one said, mother fucker. i didnt even read the whole thread. i just saw the main subject and hit reply....to give my two cents. a masters degree, huh? lol; yeah like that is a big accomplishemnt. congrats bro!! you paid your tuition and attended classes! you are so fucking awesome! lol. and i highly doubt you have a doctorate. but if you do.....same shit, just different length of stay.
lee haney can suck my dick.
so if you have a doctorate; then you should be highly knowledgeable in a specific field.... and since i have never attended colege; and never recieved any instruction in your field; you should be able to easily defeat me in some sort of debate on whatever subject it is that you specialize in.
GO.
ill reply.
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hahahhaa my Lord!!! look at the chest on this beast!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
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AS OPPOSED TO YOUR CHEST; YOU no-muscled FAT FUCK?
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oh shit! epic self-owning! hahaha.
lets take advice from this beast!! hahaha.
as for my degree, I have NOTHING to prove to you. but if you wanna play, name 3 disease related to mutations in connexins? i'll give u a hint, these form gap junctions b/w cells...
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as for the other douche, lol, the pec is 2 muscles! there is also a pectoralis minor, located more in the upper chest. but thats a different story.
(http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/LIF/LIF125/3D507005.jpg)
In terms of develping the chest, there is only one muscle involved, the Pectoralis Major:
The Pectoralis minor depresses the point of the shoulder, drawing the scapula downward and medialward toward the thorax, and throwing the inferior angle backward.
Please, Doc, let me know if I'm right or not?
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Try bench press with a reverse grip. this will work the inner chest also triceps. make sure you do a different variety of chest exercises. If you want to see your chest develop you cant do the same exercises every week. Adding pushups to a chest workout helps. I do decline and weighted pushups along with bench press then switch off and sometimes do flat flys or incline. Always switch up your routine.
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Focus on the end contraction of every rep.
I read an article once by Arnold that another lifter in his time told him to focus on the contraction portion of cable crossovers, after Arnold noticed his lack of ROM, and upon trying the new version found an appreciation for it and noticed more chest striations.
I notice a similar feeling on the lockout squeeze and hold on Hammer Strength Machines.
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(http://www.fotosearch.com/comp/LIF/LIF125/3D507005.jpg)
In terms of develping the chest, there is only one muscle involved, the Pectoralis Major:
The Pectoralis minor depresses the point of the shoulder, drawing the scapula downward and medialward toward the thorax, and throwing the inferior angle backward.
Please, Doc, let me know if I'm right or not?
lol, you people amaze me. You said the chest had one mucle. now you site an article that says there are 2 like i said. epic self owning. I never said the pec minor played a role in mass, I simply stated there were 2 muscles of the pecs. so may son, you proved yourself wrong. back to school kids..
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as for my degree, I have NOTHING to prove to you. but if you wanna play, name 3 disease related to mutations in connexins? i'll give u a hint, these form gap junctions b/w cells...
keratoderma, oculodentodigital dysplasia, autosomal recessive deafness.
while the nomenclature of the connexins is somewhat confusing...The connexins have been designated by their molecular mass. Another system of nomenclature divides gap junction proteins into 2 categories, alpha and beta, according to sequence similarities.
::) ::)
anything else..
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( http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=16318 )
LOL.
you got me.
but of course..you could have just used google to find that question; as i used google to find an answer.
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If you think you can target or isolate the 'inner chest', you do not understand physiology.
Perhaps someone could tell me how to target the area of my pec 4 inches down from my collarbone and 5 inches out from my sternum on the left side. I think that's my weak area.
Because if you can tell me how to target the 'inner chest', certianly you could answer my question, too. Right?
If not, please explain how the two are not the same?
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If you think you can target or isolate the 'inner chest', you do not understand physiology.
Perhaps someone could tell me how to target the area of my pec 4 inches down from my collarbone and 5 inches out from my sternum on the left side. I think that's my weak area.
Because if you can tell me how to target the 'inner chest', certianly you could answer my question, too. Right?
If not, please explain how the two are not the same?
every body is different. extremely minute differences in attachement locations equals rather large differences in muscle usage, muscle contaction... so what would target that area of the pec for ME may not taget that area of the pec for you.....or even the pec muscle at all.
but you definitely can STRESS different parts of the muscle more in certain exercises than others.
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lol, you people amaze me. You said the chest had one mucle. now you site an article that says there are 2 like i said. epic self owning. I never said the pec minor played a role in mass, I simply stated there were 2 muscles of the pecs. so may son, you proved yourself wrong. back to school kids..
For the purposes of this discussion, there is only one muscle in the chest being used, the Pectoralis Major, that's the point of the discussion, 1 muscle, no outer, inner, lower, upper. I wouldn't call my admission of the obvious facts an "epic self owning." I love how you needed to correct me and then point out the fact that you're an MD so you can have some purpose for being here. I thought you had nothing to prove?
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when i wanted upper pec mass i did inclines,lower pec mass i did dips and decline presses,outer pec mass i did flys,inner pec mass cable crossovers and guess what it worked everytime.you cant argue with results,maybe it dont work for some but it does for me,basically where i feel it most it is working.
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yes,
people should get their advice from a scrawny 130 pound douche rather than Arnold and Lee Haney. genius.
ok, what is a keratoderma and which one is associated with esophageal carcinoma, and how is it inherited? and what is the treatment... be really hard to find this stuff on the internet. if someone has a transgredient keratoderma what does than mean? lol. good luck finding those answers son.
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but you definitely can STRESS different parts of the muscle more in certain exercises than others.
Please explain how, keeping in mind innervation, as well as insertion and origin points.
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yes,
people should get their advice from a scrawny 130 pound douche rather than Arnold and Lee Haney. genius.
ok, what is a keratoderma and which one is associated with esophageal carcinoma, and how is it inherited? and what is the treatment... be really hard to find this stuff on the internet. if someone has a transgredient keratoderma what does than mean? lol. good luck finding those answers son.
Being an MD itself means absolute shit when it comes to training theory/keinsiology.(sp?)
HTH ;)
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i did not say having an MD made me smarter in terms of training. I come on here often, trying to find new tips etc. I just know more about internal medicine than candidate2500, thats all I was saying.
No matter what we do, we are always students, and I appreciate the training advice here on getbig.
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you CAN traget the inner chest. you CAN build muscle with cable crossovers.
these are the FACTS that i was trying to present. anythign else thta i might have said; or anything else you might have though i said; can be disregarded.
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you CAN traget the inner chest. you CAN build muscle with cable crossovers.
these are the FACTS that i was trying to present. anythign else thta i might have said; or anything else you might have though i said; can be disregarded.
Milos agrees with the crossover idea.
Cables can build muscle. Ask Coleman, Sarcev, Ruhl, etc. So many agree about cable curls for mass, why not cable crossovers. Hell, why even do pushdowns if cables don't build muscle? Tell Cutler that who does 3 types of pushdowns for triceps.
You can target different parts of a muscle otherwise everyone would just use 1 exercise per muscle group.
Wide grip presses, squats, close grip presses, squats, etc all make a difference in different parts of the muscles.
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Anyone doubting inner chest targetting should try cable crossovers with extra ROM, i.e. with the arms crossing over each other at the end of the movement. Or any other cable fly movement.
Also can use a closer grip on the bench press w/ elbows flared(I haven't tried this though). OR my favorite "Gironda Bench Press"- wide grip bench press to the neck with elbows flared, and squeezing the pecs at the top with a shrugging motion.
Do report back when u feel all this in the "inner" chest ;)
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I don't care where you feel it. EXPLAIN IT, using physiology, keeping in mind innervation, origin, and insertion points.
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I don't care where you feel it. EXPLAIN IT, using physiology, keeping in mind innervation, origin, and insertion points.
First of all, for what purpose do you ask for this? But sure I can post some links that explain this. Don't know much abt physiology, etc myself.
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I ask because an awful lot of people seem to hold a position that is physiologically impossible, and the only agument they have is an appeal to authority.
So, in order for them to learn, and in order to try to make inroads into falsehoods in bodybuilding mythology, I would like these folks to go find out on their own that they are unable to show any physiological explanation for what they believe is true.
Some of them will get it. Some of them will remain much like creationists, letting faith guide them instead of fact.
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you have got to be kidding me trying to say that if you FEEL it, you SEE it, and its EFFECTIVE...that it is usless just because science/medicine cant EXPLAIN it.
explain the center of a black hole for me.. explain whats inside of an atom for me...explain how the universe started for me... come on mother fucker.
results > science
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Yet another poor argument. Those things are not the same as what I'm talking about.
You are stating that x causes y. I've simply asked how, and no one can answer, other than by telling me that:
1) Ronnie Coleman says so, or
2) They believe it to be.
That's not really a valid argument.
But continue to follow the bro religion. It won't hurt you, you'll just waste time making your training more complicated than it needs to be.
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Yet another poor argument. Those things are not the same as what I'm talking about.
You are stating that x causes y. I've simply asked how, and no one can answer, other than by telling me that:
1) Ronnie Coleman says so, or
2) They believe it to be.
That's not really a valid argument.
But continue to follow the bro religion. It won't hurt you, you'll just waste time making your training more complicated than it needs to be.
"bro religion"....classic. That needs to be trademarked!
candidate, you are comparing astro physics to body mechanics. You're comparing the beginning of the universe to muscle contractions and origins of incertion...TOTALLY different.
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no. you didnt understand the point i was making....
he is trying to say that results do not matter if the science to back them isnt there.
so a guy on a low carb diet in the 1940's loses a ton of weight...and a "modern" nutritionist tellls him that that was impossible because you need carbs..and laughed in his face.
who was right? the results or the sience?
and dont comoe back with anytype of "well actually; there WAS evidence to back the low carb diet in the 1940's"..beca oue KNOW that is not the point i am trying to make here.
g do some cable crossovers. feel where it works, see where it makes you pumped up. over time..notice your inner chests increase in definition and and fullness.
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Your inner chest grows when your chest grows.
Please explain how, keeping in mind origin points, insertion points, and innervation how it's POSSIBLE to isolate the 'inner chest'.
You can't. No one can.
Guess why.
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You can not target the "inner chest" your best bet is to just work on bench and inclines and develope the chest as much as possible.
You actually can target the inner chest nicely, you just can't isolate it. It's like your lower abdominals. It'd be physically impossible. I have clients do single arm pec decks. Keep the shoulders low and the ribs up. The hand should come all the way across to the opposite shoulder. Give it a squeeze when you contract it for maximum impact.
Incline flys are good too, but not as good for inner as what I just wrote
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1) dips 2) pecdeck
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just got done with a kick ass chest workout that if finished up with cable crossovers. 4 sets..first three were HEAVY(takes alot of concentration to do this movement with heavy weight though..), last set started heavy, went to failure, then moved the pin up on notch, went to failure(nor rest), moved it up one notch, went to failure...ect all the way u till i was repping the 10 pounds. i could barely get like 15 reps with 10 pounds; and DAMN my inner chest was on fucking fire!
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not to cause further controversy, however, i was once an avid trainer many years ago, now i'm back in the gym at 33, and haven't trained seriously in about 5 years, i started last november, i was getting CHEST size back from pressing but was lacking the middle. I started doing moderate weight cables, not crossing the hands, just letting them meet, at full contraction i was twisting my wrists in, making my palms face up. i would alter my arms from workout to workout, sometimes completing the squeeze in front of my face other times down by my abs and sometimes in between, within a month, the line came out.
case in point, regardless of what movement you do, IMO it's all about the SQUEEZE...
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Hogwash, you can not target the inner chest at all. That is as unscientific as it is silly.
true, you cant target inner or outer chest. upper and "lower" chest, yes.
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true, you cant target inner or outer chest. upper and "lower" chest, yes.
How is that possible given that the pectoralis is one muscle? There are no seperate 'heads'.
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Hogwash
nope. upper pecs (M. pectoralis major pars clavicularis) can be stimulated by flexion movement.
inner our outer pecs is bs tho.
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This thread is not about the upper pecs son.
next question.
translation: i was wrong, and training the upper pecs is possible (as slaveboy proved).
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"workinhg on the inner chest"
Read more, post less.
that question was already answered by me, several times in this thread.
so take your own advice :)
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slave, you still in the MGB II?
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Don't get mad because you were wrong. Most guys have no idea what they are talking about just like you.
obviously its you who is mad, cant take being wrong? ;)
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results > science..
seated machine flys = a well developed inner chest with the "line" down the middle
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well, be that as it may. all i can say is that when i do DB presses and squeeze like hell at the top, 2 days later my inner pecs are sore as hell. When i just do barbell presses and don;t squeeze, i do not feel sore there, i feel more sore in the outer pecs.
Thus, and according to lee haney, squeezing targets the inner chest. Outer grips-outer pecs, and closer grips, inner pecs.
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well, be that as it may. all i can say is that when i do DB presses and squeeze like hell at the top, 2 days later my inner pecs are sore as hell. When i just do barbell presses and don;t squeeze, i do not feel sore there, i feel more sore in the outer pecs.
Thus, and according to lee haney, squeezing targets the inner chest. Outer grips-outer pecs, and closer grips, inner pecs.
yeah...different strokes for differenrt folks. the inner chest CAN be targeted.
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I never get mad when I am right. Don't be bitter because you have no idea how to train. You are better off doing some research and learning.
ok so you admit your angry because you were wrong ;D
inner chest or outer chest not possible to isolate
but yes focus can be shifted to upper pecs (M. pectoralis major pars clavicularis)
so its you who has to study anatomy. + training results
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yeah...different strokes for differenrt folks. the inner chest CAN be targeted.
nope...sure you can get sore but you cant make inner chest grow without stimulating the whole muscle.
why? because the muscle fibers are horizontal. (fan shaped)
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My best advice, learn muscle control and to FEEL the muscle throughout the workout. Seems to help focus intensity into an area a little better.
Go heavier...the more your muscles grow..the more improved your INNER chest will become.
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My best advice, learn muscle control and to FEEL the muscle throughout the workout. Seems to help focus intensity into an area a little better.
Go heavier...the more your muscles grow..the more improved your INNER chest will become.
bullshit. the more pectoralis major grows the more "inner and outer" chest grows. not possible to isolate inner vs outer chest.
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bullshit. the more pectoralis major grows the more "inner and outer" chest grows. not possible to isolate inner vs outer chest.
WTF you mean bullshit? I'm just telling him to learn to feel his chest working...not to focuse on flexing the inner or outer portion more or whatever the fuck you think I said. Everyone needs to learn muscle control and to learn to feel the muscle working to help them not only focus on the work but to know when one exercise works better than another for a particular muscle group, etc.
Your reply to what I said was bullshit! ;D
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WTF you mean bullshit? I'm just telling him to learn to feel his chest working...not to focuse on flexing the inner or outer portion more or whatever the fuck you think I said. Everyone needs to learn muscle control and to learn to feel the muscle working to help them not only focus on the work but to know when one exercise works better than another for a particular muscle group, etc.
Your reply to what I said was bullshit! ;D
that you should feel the muscle you work is a given. but no amount of muscle control will allow you to focus more on inner than outer chest. (the reason for this i already explained)
upper pecs can be focused on tho.
also, you squatting 800lbs yet?
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that you should feel the muscle you work is a given. but no amount of muscle control will allow you to focus more on inner than outer chest. (the reason for this i already explained)
upper pecs can be focused on tho.
also, you squatting 800lbs yet?
Yeah some things should go unsaid..but you'd be surprised.
Not yet man give me another week...and I'll bang it out wiht my 1/4 rep BADASSNESS for all you tiny tits to behold! ;D
I did pick up 650 off the floor yesterday though..still pretty stoked about that! :-*
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Yeah some things should go unsaid..but you'd be surprised.
Not yet man give me another week...and I'll bang it out wiht my 1/4 rep BADASSNESS for all you tiny tits to behold! ;D
I did pick up 650 off the floor yesterday though..still pretty stoked about that! :-*
remember powerfactor training was a hoax!!! eventho mentzer wrote the intro.
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remember powerfactor training was a hoax!!! eventho mentzer wrote the intro.
I'm not well versed in what you're talking about what so ever. Power factor training?! ???