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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Pet Board => Topic started by: Princess L on August 22, 2007, 09:30:18 PM
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http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/fv.htm??g=24f1a344-62b6-4be9-b253-2a27418fee84&t=m10&f=06/64&p=&fg>1=10252
http://www.komotv.com/news/local/9295026.html
GIG HARBOR, Wash. -- A 59-year-old woman has been hospitalized after being mauled by two pit bulls who came into her house Tuesday morning.
Pierce County Sheriff spokesman Ed Troyer said the two dogs came through a door that was left slightly open and attacked the woman while she was in bed at about 9 a.m. The dogs did not belong to her.
When medics arrived at the home in the 10600 block of 132nd Street Court Northwest they found the woman had crawled into her car to escape from the dogs.
The woman, identified by neighbors as Sue Gorman, tried to shoot the dogs before running to her car where she called 911. She was taken to St. Joseph Hospital in Tacoma where she was listed in satisfactory condition.
"She was injured fairly severely," Troyer said. "She'll be in the hospital for some time. She took some severe bites throughout different portions of her body." Firefighters locked the dogs in the house until animal control officers arrived, and a trail of blood was visible throughout the house.
Deputies had to use pepper spray to subdue the dogs and load them into an animal control vehicle. "We almost had to shoot them on site," Troyer said.
The dogs were taken to the Humane Society for Tacoma and Pierce County, and will probably be destroyed, he said.
Troyer said the pit bulls also killed a Jack Russell terrier belonging to a neighbor during the attack.
Zack Martin said he owns one of the pit bulls, a 2-year-old female named Betty, and was taking care of the other, a male named Tank, while his owner was out of town. Martin said he had Tank chained up in his backyard because of a past incident in which the two dogs got out and caused trouble together, but he allowed Betty to run loose in the fenced backyard. On Tuesday, he found the chain broken and both dogs gone.
"We never saw it coming," he said. "They're the kinds of dogs you'd let play with your babies."
Pierce County Animal Control Officer Brian Boman said animal control officers have had past run-ins with the pit bulls, but couldn't say exactly how many.
Gorman's service dog was in the house at the time of the attack but was not injured.
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Martin said he had Tank chained up in his backyard because of a past incident in which the two dogs got out and caused trouble together,
I wonder what the past trouble was exactly?
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http://americanpitdog.com/index.html
How/ Why, Princess?
Hope this helps.... It happens and will continue to increase in proportion to the numbers of these animals owned by people who have no clue as to the Deeply inbred genetic make up of this particular K9 and its extraordinary attributes, Many of them good.
You cant remove the innate pointing or retrieving instints from several breeds anymore so than you can remove many traits from "Pit Dog breeds".
"He chewed thru a ROPE" ::) Duh!
Deep in their DNA is the fact that they would not be Alive had their predecessors not only vanquished opponents in the pit but also refused to surrender. THAT trait was as highly prized as outright destructive ability with teeth and jaws.
The fact is they fought alongside and FOR their owners.
THese aint yur Run of The Mill Dogge.
Perhaps a look at some old photos would be helpfull in understanding the genetic make up of the breed.
It is in each and every one of them.
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http://americanpitdog.com/index.html
How/ Why, Princess?
Hope this helps.... It happens and will continue to increase in proportion to the numbers of these animals owned by people who have no clue as to the Deeply inbred genetic make up of this particular K9 and its extraordinary attributes, Many of them good.
You cant remove the innate pointing or retrieving instints from several breeds anymore so than you can remove many traits from "Pit Dog breeds".
"He chewed thru a ROPE" ::) Duh!
Deep in their DNA is the fact that they would not be Alive had their predecessors not only vanquished opponents in the pit but also refused to surrender. THAT trait was as highly prized as outright destructive ability with teeth and jaws.
The fact is they fought alongside and FOR their owners.
THese aint yur Run of The Mill Dogge.
Perhaps a look at some old photos would be helpfull in understanding the genetic make up of the breed.
It is in each and every one of them.
Your views on this breed are so skewed.....
so why did these dogs leave the service dog alone? Why did the viscious killers only attack the human? Why did they let her get to her car? Why did they charge into a closed house? Why didnt' they attack each other? Pits don't attack as pack animals, even you have said that. This was a pack attack.
The entire story is very fishy as far as I'm concerned. There are parts that just don't make sense.
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why was my initial reply to this thread deleted?
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why was my initial reply to this thread deleted?
not by me ???
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not by me ???
Its ok, it may have been me. I essentially typed that I didn't think this story made sense, there are parts that just don't add up and soemone burst into my office all excited. I shut the window on the computer pretty quickly. I thought I'd hit the send key, but it may have been my mistake.
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Vet I agree w/ the pack thing, although here and there guys can train them to pack hunt.
Takes extra work.
I dont dislike the breed. But most of the owners dont know what they have, and dont control/ contain the animal securely.
They did kill the Russel terrier was the story. But, Media mess up lots for sure.
But, if these animals are not unusual WHY so many in problems?
Personally, I feel they'd been better off if they stayed in the hands of Dr Swinfords clients and the other old timers who fought them.
And I dont think they fought them to death that often.
How well trained are most your customers dogs? Not very is my experience w/ most dog owners.
A pitt for a pet without lots of other K9 & animal experience is a mistake IMO, and thats exactly what most of the owners are.
Just wait, there will be some extraordinary News Video event that will usher in Nation Wide Bite Insh.
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Okay.
Here's my question. Let's put EVERYTHING aside (the breed, the owner, lack of training, past trouble...EVERYTHING). What causes a canine(s) (domestic or wild) to enter an occupied dwelling and attack a sleeping adult human being ???
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Okay.
Here's my question. Let's put EVERYTHING aside (the breed, the owner, lack of training, past trouble...EVERYTHING). What causes a canine(s) (domestic or wild) to enter an occupied dwelling and attack a sleeping adult human being ???
Very good question. What "Triggered them" would be the better way to put it...
A combination of their various innate drives. We are not Dogs, we cant fully understand.
What we do know is it happend. There is no undoing it. And these incidents are happening a lot.
Theres too many of these animals, and they are a problem. Most of the owners have little dog experience.
If they are so wonderfull, why so many problems?
Also note - These incidents are all by people who owned them as PETS - Not Dog Fighters! THey chain THEIR Dogs!
Who you think knows more about these animals?
THese dogs CANT run free. They have a high probability of fighting another dog.
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Very good question. What "Triggered them" would be the better way to put it...
A combination of their various innate drives. We are not Dogs, we cant fully understand.
What we do know is it happend. There is no undoing it. And these incidents are happening a lot.
Theres too many of these animals, and they are a problem. Most of the owners have little dog experience.
If they are so wonderfull, why so many problems?
Also note - These incidents are all by people who owned them as PETS - Not Dog Fighters! THey chain THEIR Dogs!
Who you think knows more about these animals?
THese dogs CANT run free. They have a high probability of fighting another dog.
Which they didn't do. They attacked the human. According to this article there was a service dog present who was uninjured.
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Very good question. What "Triggered them" would be the better way to put it...
A combination of their various innate drives. We are not Dogs, we cant fully understand.
What we do know is it happend. There is no undoing it. And these incidents are happening a lot.
Theres too many of these animals, and they are a problem. Most of the owners have little dog experience.
If they are so wonderfull, why so many problems?
Also note - These incidents are all by people who owned them as PETS - Not Dog Fighters! THey chain THEIR Dogs!
Who you think knows more about these animals?
THese dogs CANT run free. They have a high probability of fighting another dog.
Trab it sounds like you are being a complete smart ass here when you are expressing your opinion. I have owned pits for quite some time now. I have two boys right now. One is 100% Staffordshire and the other 100% APBT. I allow my dogs to run free in my backyard.
I know some will shame me but my boys come outside, out front with no leash... All the neighbor kids run up and give them hugs and kisses. But they have never stepped out of the yard...
You say if they are such good dogs why all the problems... It's because one, if anything happens involving a pit you hear about it. Second you don't hear about dog bites. Plain and simple they are not reported on a national level. I hate when people try to resort back to what pits where used for back in the day. The breeding is not directed at that anymore.
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Trab is an example of not blaming the breed....but the owner
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http://americanpitdog.com/index.html
How/ Why, Princess?
Hope this helps.... It happens and will continue to increase in proportion to the numbers of these animals owned by people who have no clue as to the Deeply inbred genetic make up of this particular K9 and its extraordinary attributes, Many of them good.
You cant remove the innate pointing or retrieving instints from several breeds anymore so than you can remove many traits from "Pit Dog breeds".
"He chewed thru a ROPE" ::) Duh!
Deep in their DNA is the fact that they would not be Alive had their predecessors not only vanquished opponents in the pit but also refused to surrender. THAT trait was as highly prized as outright destructive ability with teeth and jaws.
The fact is they fought alongside and FOR their owners.
THese aint yur Run of The Mill Dogge.
Perhaps a look at some old photos would be helpfull in understanding the genetic make up of the breed.
It is in each and every one of them.
blah . . . blah . . . blah . . . these dogs were bred and genetically made up to go after sleeping sickly women. ::) Mitt Romney for president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Trab it sounds like you are being a complete smart ass here when you are expressing your opinion. I have owned pits for quite some time now. I have two boys right now. One is 100% Staffordshire and the other 100% APBT. I allow my dogs to run free in my backyard.
I know some will shame me but my boys come outside, out front with no leash... All the neighbor kids run up and give them hugs and kisses. But they have never stepped out of the yard...
You say if they are such good dogs why all the problems... It's because one, if anything happens involving a pit you hear about it. Second you don't hear about dog bites. Plain and simple they are not reported on a national level. I hate when people try to resort back to what pits where used for back in the day. The breeding is not directed at that anymore.
VET - Watch the News Video. I saw it on another channel. The pitts killed a little boys Rustle Terrier "that ran in the house and saved the person..." OK, there might be more to understanding the Trigger that caused a attack reaction.. You better versed to guess than me...
Sin CitY - YOU are a accident waiting to happen in all probability. EVERY Pitt Dogge (BTY, TO My friend Dumbass, thats the Olde English spelling for The Band Dogges) accident has this in common "He NEVER acted like that before". Of course not, theyd of lost the animal! This only gets to happens ONCE to a Dog!
You Like that dog and want to keep it? Keep it inside, Chain it on your property where its out of the way of strangers, Keep it behind a SECURE fence. Regular chain link wont do, You MUST watch them if thats your fence. Keep a collar on the Animal and a leash in hand.
Do You know what your dog means compared to a human mauled? NOTHING!
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Trab is an example of not blaming the breed....but the owner
Thats as stupid as blaming a Lab for retrieving Ducks.
Certian Breeds do certian things extra special, Like Pull Milk Carts or FIGHT!
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::)
I'm going to get me a sleeping-woman terrier as my next dog. ::)
just stick to milking cows or whatever it is you do, trab.
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Thats as stupid as blaming a Lab for retrieving Ducks.
Certian Breeds do certian things extra special, Like Pull Milk Carts or FIGHT!
or just bark
::)
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or just bark
::)
or yap ::)
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or yap ::)
Or act like a complete dumbass who has no idea what the F*CK he is talking about. See you contradict yourself there Mr. Intelligent. I am not a new person when it comes to raising pit bulls. I actually have owned them for around 6 or 7 years now I believe and like I said I have NEVER HAD AN INNCIDENT!!!!!!!! My dogs are babies. They don't get chained up, they sleep with me, for Christ sakes they have a custom built dog house with hard wood floors and carpet...
Here's the fact that needs to be stated. Ignorant people with access to a keyboard can cause a lot of harm... Hence why we should chain you up and keep you behind a fence, of course chain link won't work... Now get back outside you ignoramus...
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Or act like a complete dumbass who has no idea what the F*CK he is talking about. See you contradict yourself there Mr. Intelligent. I am not a new person when it comes to raising pit bulls. I actually have owned them for around 6 or 7 years now I believe and like I said I have NEVER HAD AN INNCIDENT!!!!!!!! My dogs are babies. They don't get chained up, they sleep with me, for Christ sakes they have a custom built dog house with hard wood floors and carpet...
Here's the fact that needs to be stated. Ignorant people with access to a keyboard can cause a lot of harm... Hence why we should chain you up and keep you behind a fence, of course chain link won't work... Now get back outside you ignoramus...
I got more years in with the fighting breeds than you ;)
THEY ARE NOT "BABIES" - THEY ARE DOGS.
They DO NOT have complex reasoning ability like (SOME ;D) Humans do.
THey do not have complex emotions/ "Feelings" that idiots ascribe to them. They are animals with deeply inbred (and Linebred in this case) instincts that REACT to stimulus you can not even sense or understand.
Your a trainwreck ;) YOU Don't have a clue, or experience how to get one off another animal or, God forbid a person.
Tip - Shop Lowes or Home Depot ... 1. Heavy Chain 2. Keyed heavy Master Lock.
Oh Forget it - You prolly don't have much net worth to sue for anyway.
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I got more years in with the fighting breeds than you ;)
THEY ARE NOT "BABIES" - THEY ARE DOGS.
They DO NOT have complex reasoning ability like (SOME ;D) Humans do.
THey do not have complex emotions/ "Feelings" that idiots ascribe to them. They are animals with deeply inbred (and Linebred in this case) instincts that REACT to stimulus you can not even sense or understand.
Your a trainwreck ;) YOU Don't have a clue, or experience how to get one off another animal or, God forbid a person.
Tip - Shop Lowes or Home Depot ... 1. Heavy Chain 2. Keyed heavy Master Lock.
Oh Forget it - You prolly don't have much net worth to sue for anyway.
Trab, you are showing your ass.....
dogs (AS A SPECIES) have been proven to have both complex reasoning ability and complex emotions---this is best identified with service dogs--be it police (more physical, but also reasoning), seeing eye (perhaps the most complex reasoning abilities) or hearing ear (also very complex) or search and rescue. Pitbulls are police dogs, there are several search and rescue dogs, and I know of one hearing ear dog. I'll admit I dont' know about pitbulls as seeing eye dogs, but its worth looking into.
You are hellbent for leather to hang onto the stubborn idea that you are right about these dogs being mindless killers..... yet there is person after person on this very board posting about their great family pet--which is a pitbull. hell, my wife is at home asleep with two of them in bed with her right now. They aren't mauling her or chewing her legs off. The worst thing is the puppy may have a case of bad puppy farts.
I don't disagree with you in saying that owners must be responsible for their dogs (and that there are pitbull owners who are very irresponsible) but this goes for all dog breeds, not just pitbulls. What you are doing is showing your own deep rooted hatred and prejudice. It makes me wonder what you've done or had done involving a pitbull to feel this way, because it sure seems to go deep.
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Trab, you are showing your ass.....
dogs (AS A SPECIES) have been proven to have both complex reasoning ability and complex emotions---this is best identified with service dogs--be it police (more physical, but also reasoning), seeing eye (perhaps the most complex reasoning abilities) or hearing ear (also very complex) or search and rescue. Pitbulls are police dogs, there are several search and rescue dogs, and I know of one hearing ear dog. I'll admit I dont' know about pitbulls as seeing eye dogs, but its worth looking into.
You are hellbent for leather to hang onto the stubborn idea that you are right about these dogs being mindless killers..... yet there is person after person on this very board posting about their great family pet--which is a pitbull. hell, my wife is at home asleep with two of them in bed with her right now. They aren't mauling her or chewing her legs off. The worst thing is the puppy may have a case of bad puppy farts.
I don't disagree with you in saying that owners must be responsible for their dogs (and that there are pitbull owners who are very irresponsible) but this goes for all dog breeds, not just pitbulls. What you are doing is showing your own deep rooted hatred and prejudice. It makes me wonder what you've done or had done involving a pitbull to feel this way, because it sure seems to go deep.
You keep putting words in my mouth, insulting and name calling. I dont recall doing any to you, if I did I apologise.
These animals are a massive Problem. Denying that is like Vick denying involvement in dogfighting.
Do you have room for about 3000 more of them a year at your place? I hope so.
I spent thousands on my Staff and Pitt. Im sure I spent on frivolous vet care when most would have put the animal down long ago.... They were extremely well teated.
But, 99% of the Guys w/ one - Never had another dog even. They live in a big city. They dont control the animal. They have zero experience with animals.... The list goes on and on. Thats the issue with maulings. People who dont control their animal. There is no excuse.
PLEASE NOTE - The last attack and previous RAPE of a Child by a Pitt Bull were NOT BY DOG FIGHTERS DOGS!
They were those.. "Oh, he NEVER did anything like that before". People.
You go and try and say pitts are no harder biters all you want. People have eyes.
Hospitals and Courts and Insurance companies have records. Facts is Facts.
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trab is an idiot....
so instead of reasoning with him & trying to change his mind....we should treat him like he would to his own dogs & take it out back...tie a heavy chain to him....& shoot him.
....since he's incapable of having a civilized or an intelligent conversation.
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trab is an idiot....
so instead of reasoning with him & trying to change his mind....we should treat him like he would to his own dogs & take it out back...tie a heavy chain to him....& shoot him.
....since he's incapable of having a civilized or an intelligent conversation.
dayummn . . . that's harsh.
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trab is an idiot....
so instead of reasoning with him & trying to change his mind....we should treat him like he would to his own dogs & take it out back...tie a heavy chain to him....& shoot him.
....since he's incapable of having a civilized or an intelligent conversation.
I wish you'd try. You'd make good fertalizer, your full of shit.
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oh, this is getting good. ;D
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I wish you'd try. You'd make good fertalizer, your full of shit.
you're an idiot
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you're an idiot
Why dont you and Flower get married and have little PET-Tards!
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someone sounds pretty fragile
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someone sounds pretty fragile
Exactly my thoughts about whats between your ears.
Maybee Vet can be Best Man? ??? ;D
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dayummn . . . that's harsh.
I agree. I really don't understand where trab is coming from. He's preaching muzzling, control, and what not, but then says its the irresponsible owners faults the dogs cant help themselves and no pitbull owners are responsible---or at least 99.9% aren't. When called on the realistic truth of the dog, he then says he's got years of experience with them, but they should be chained with heavy chains and padlocks and its the irresponsible owners. These dogs are innate killers. They will eat you. But he's loved his and spent thousands of dollars on them becuase of generations of breeding that has made them mindless killing machines incapable of reacting like the animal they are----a dog.
I'm kinda confused.....
I will agree with him, I've seen my fair share of irresponsible pit owners. But i've also seen irresponsible lab, chihuahua, rotweiler, pointer, border collie, great dane..... the list goes on and on. Its not just a pitbull issue, its a DOG issue.
I also don't think its an inner city issue--although I do not agree with the bullshit mentality of having to have a dog as a status symbol. Saying its all inner city is a racist comment that borders on stupid. Yes, there are punk kids out there buying pitbulls to have them as status symbols, but i've worked "vaccination" clinics in some pretty bad neighborhoods in Brooklyn, Queens, and Harlem. There were people there who would come to the clinic and get exactly 7 days worth of antibiotic----we know theyd show up at the next clinic and buy 7 additional days worth to treat an ear infection in their dogs---their pitbulls. One indiviudal with an older dog with heart disease and prostate cancer literally followed me around Brooklyn so the dog could be checked every week and his heart disease monitored. That dog ultimately died, but the part that got to me was the owner showing up one saturday with a pitcher of tea for me and my crew. He couldn't afford anything else, but it was a hot day and he wanted to say thank you.
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Your putting words in my mouth again...
Your in TOTAL DENIAL about these dogs. If they were not a problem, you wouldn't be running rescues for them.
Whats that last other breed to Rape a child? Bust into a strangers home and chew her up?
You can talk all you want, but you cant change the facts.
I'm sure your dogs are as well trained as a dog can be, and are allways under control. Ive never seen a Vet that was not like that and We got plenty of Vets here by me in Mo Cow Land.
But YOU ain't the average Pitt Bull owner. You end up with dogs that others couldn't handle or misshandled.
Its a rapidly increasing number.
Everybody and his brother is NOT cut out to own one of these dogs.
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Your putting words in my mouth again...
Your in TOTAL DENIAL about these dogs. If they were not a problem, you wouldn't be running rescues for them.
Whats that last other breed to Rape a child? Bust into a strangers home and chew her up?
You can talk all you want, but you cant change the facts.
I'm sure your dogs are as well trained as a dog can be, and are allways under control. Ive never seen a Vet that was not like that and We got plenty of Vets here by me in Mo Cow Land.
But YOU ain't the average Pitt Bull owner. You end up with dogs that others couldn't handle or misshandled.
Its a rapidly increasing number.
Everybody and his brother is NOT cut out to own one of these dogs.
How many dogs have you heard about raping people.....
& thats not counting the ones mounting you
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Hey Knny187 I have a GREAT IDEA ;D!
Not only can VET Be YOURs and Flowers Best Man - He can also DELIVER your Baby PET-Tards!!
But, I'd prefer he put you both to sleep....
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just ask body88 why.these dogs were not properly socialized,It's not there fault.Who cares how many of these dogs maul people?ME THATS WHO!fvCK THEM DOGS!thats the problem with animal lovers there so blinded by there love for these dogs they can't read the writing on the wall.
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Hey Knny187 I have a GREAT IDEA ;D!
Not only can VET Be YOURs and Flowers Best Man - He can also DELIVER your Baby PET-Tards!!
But, I'd prefer he put you both to sleep....
I have a question for you killer.....
since you have all of these dangerous out of control animals that can snap at any moment...
where are your kids?
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'comon you guys >:( There have been PLENTY of threads to have your argument(s) on.
No one had addressed my question.
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I wonder what the past trouble was exactly?
Those two dogs are like a Canine Bonnie and Clyde!
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'comon you guys >:( There have been PLENTY of threads to have your argument(s) on.
No one had addressed my question.
ok...
what question?
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ok...
what question?
Okay.
Here's my question. Let's put EVERYTHING aside (the breed, the owner, lack of training, past trouble...EVERYTHING). What causes a canine(s) (domestic or wild) to enter an occupied dwelling and attack a sleeping adult human being ???
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they were bored & nothing good was on tv
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It's an animal and no matter what,You can never predict what there actions will be period.
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It's an animal and no matter what,You can never predict what there actions will be period.
Bullshit. The only animal that you can say that with with any certianty is Homo sapiens.
All other species of animal by and large are very, very predictable. If they weren't I wouldn't be able to do my job with the type of dangerous animals I work with every day---from big cats to giant constrictors to crocodilians to african elephants. I spent 2 hours this morning evaluating an Indian Rhino with cataracts with an ophthalmologist colleague. She had never worked with this species---this is a more than 6000 lb male, one of the biggest in North America, who is blind in 1 eye because of a cataract. We planned carefully, and he responded exactly as we predicted he would, allowing the ophthalmologist to do as complete and thorough of an eye exam as she could have done with the dogs and cats that make up the majority of her patients. We also evaluated a female Indian Rhino and I just got done evaluating a corneal ulcer on an Aardwolf. In each case, we planned, we predicted, we executed the plan, and we diagnosed and treated the animals medical problems.
Anyone who says you cannot predict an animals actions, no matter what because they are an animal has absolutely no understanding of the animal they are saying that about.
As far as these dogs go.... I've said it from the beginning, the story doesnt' add up. There have to be parts of it missing that we don't know about---someone agitating the dogs, prior behaviors, the woman chasing the dogs, something. The behavior is just too uncharacteristic of domestic dogs, especially considering the uninjured service dog. I'm willing to bet what really happened is probably pretty different from the report we read.
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unfortunately I cannot reply the way I would like because I would receive a lifetime ban like trab did.this board is ran like a dictatorship not a democracy.we will just agree to disagree.
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unfortunately I cannot reply the way I would like because I would receive a lifetime ban like trab did.this board is ran like a dictatorship not a democracy.we will just agree to disagree.
you can have any opinion you want as long as you say it with some intelligence and not just to rile things up. trab was told the same thing, he chose to continue with what he was doing. I hope that clears up your confusion.
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you can have any opinion you want as long as you say it with some intelligence and not just to rile things up. trab was told the same thing, he chose to continue with what he was doing. I hope that clears up your confusion.
Flower, thank you. I do not agree with the statement that "they are animals and no matter what,You can never predict what there actions will be period". Such a statement is asanine. I'm interested in his reply, because based on the the first animal, the post was, in my opinion one made by a person with very, very little animal experience and understanding.
The predictibility of animals---ie inate action of a spieces is the basis of operant conditioning---a training method used with many different forms of wildlife (like elephants in zoos) and animals, includinig dogs, both service and pets----ie this is the basis for "clicker" training. You predict the behavior of the animal and set up the initial situation to deliver the anticipate behavior (or a near behavior that can then be modified) that behavior is then captured through positive reinforcement (the preferred method) although negative reinforcement may also be used dependng on the situation.
Traditionally service and police dogs the activaton of prey drive through fixed action patterns is also used. Even this type of training requires a degree of predictability with in the species to anticipate desired behavior and shape activation of the prey drive appropriately for the desired behavior.
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well since you can predict with 100% accuracy how they will respond to every situation,Everyone that owns an animal that attacks someone should be charged with felonious assault.And anyone that owns an animal that attacks(and kills)someone should be charged with murder.There will be no defense against these charges either because experts like you guys can come in to testify that the owner knew for sure what the dogs actions would be.
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well since you can predict with 100% accuracy how they will respond to every situation,Everyone that owns an animal that attacks someone should be charged with felonious assault.And anyone that owns an animal that attacks(and kills)someone should be charged with murder.There will be no defense against these charges either because experts like you guys can come in to testify that the owner knew for sure what the dogs actions would be.
LOL. Did I say 100% accuracy 100% of the time? NO.
You said that you absolutely cannot predict an animals actions because they are an animal. I said I disagree, there is plenty of incidence and evidence that animals are predictable along species lines. Now you warp what I said to try to keep your point. Obviously this is again another case of a person with very little animal experience or knowledge making a blanket statement and of course the dog example is brought in because its the current topic of debate for the forum.
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thats exactly right the dog is the current topic of debate on this forum.and since you got so hung up by the 100%statement that you did not respond to what my post was referring to,I'll retort the 100%.Now do you or don't you agree that if a person chooses to own an animal that attacks,or kills another human being they should be charged with felonious assault,or murder?
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thats exactly right the dog is the current topic of debate on this forum.and since you got so hung up by the 100%statement that you did not respond to what my post was referring to,I'll retort the 100%.Now do you or don't you agree that if a person chooses to own an animal that attacks,or kills another human being they should be charged with felonious assault,or murder?
That depends on the animal and the individual situation--and needs to be carefully evaluated based on animal species and individual situation. Just as an example there are many states that have passed laws acknowledging the inherent danger of riding or even being around horses that releases the horse owner or property owners (in the event of a rented barn/stall) are not liable for injury or death secondary to the routine handling of horses. You cannot take that same attitude with horses and apply it with goats or dogs.
Thats where I've had a problem with your initial statements----you made a very blanket statement about ALL animals. Should viscious dog owners be held responsible---I think they should. A charge like assault or murder should not be a blanket charge though because it depends on the individual situation. What if the owner is a single woman and the person the dog kills is a male trying to rape her? Is that dog then viscous or is it protecting its owner? Should all dogs be killed because its a specific breed? Absolutely not, especially with a breed like pitbulls because here are SO MANY good dogs (service dogs, family pets, etc) within this breed. Why punish the loving family pets simply because of the way a dog looks? That doesn't make sense but thats exactly what many breed specific laws are doing.
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What trab fails to realize is that while he is indeed correct that pit bulls were bred to fight dogs, and this is indeed a linebred trait that is there, but can be controlled and nullified with socialization, pit bulls were also bred for extreme loyalty to humans. any fighting dogs who showed aggression towards the owners or "cut-men" back in the day when the breed was being molded were destroyed as it was not a desireable trait. Any pit expert, will tell you that the american pit bull terrier is the one dog that has been bred for temperment and personality and not appearance. A well bred american pit bull terrier will never show human aggression, nor will they ever be the dogs you hear about in the news. the problem lies with bad owners, image and bad breeding, its a dagerous mixture and can lead to a situation such as the one described in the story, although the story itself doesn't really make any sense. take your average ghetto thug or white trash who wants a pit. can he afford a pure bred, breed standard pit bull? No, he's spent that money on rims and meth. So he goes to the guy a couple blocks or trailer parks away who has a litter of pups, which came from two dogs who were poorly bred, which came from a pit with a little presa or a little cane corso mixed in, which each came from inbred dogs, and each came from a bad owner which came from a bad upbringing, but hey, they can sell a bunch of pit pups and make a lot of money!!
But back to negro joe and jimmy trailer; who want their pits to look tough and provide an air of strength about them. they haven't had dogs before, but they want a pit because a pit provides an image that they want to convey. But they get a little tired of taking care of a puppy cuz they also want more rims, grills, crack and meth... and they aren't the best people in the first place so they neglect the dogs, maybe let them wander free or just chain them up. The dogs aren't socialized, aren't trained, are hungry, are lonely and depressed and eventually become a bit apprehensive of humans. At this point we have the state of many pit bulls in america, which really can't be classified as pit bulls anymore, more aptly they are "image bulls." But they still have traits of pit bulls, such as tenacity, strong jaws and athletic prowess. Do i believe each of these dogs is an inhererent danger to the world? probably not, but i don't think they are anywhere near as dependable as a well bred american pit bull terrier. There are certain conistencies that dogs need in their lives to become members of society, which if you own a dog, you need to prepare a dog for the real world. At this point though, you have many dogs out there with short hair and a big head, called pit bulls, doing things completely misrepresentative of the breed, such as the situation above, even though that story seems suspicious to say the least.
Pit bulls are the most abused and most exploited breed in the world essentially, and that is how we have arrived at the situation of the breed we have today. That might be the simple explanation you need.
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What trab fails to realize is that while he is indeed correct that pit bulls were bred to fight dogs, and this is indeed a linebred trait that is there, but can be controlled and nullified with socialization, pit bulls were also bred for extreme loyalty to humans. any fighting dogs who showed aggression towards the owners or "cut-men" back in the day when the breed was being molded were destroyed as it was not a desireable trait. Any pit expert, will tell you that the american pit bull terrier is the one dog that has been bred for temperment and personality and not appearance. A well bred american pit bull terrier will never show human aggression, nor will they ever be the dogs you hear about in the news. the problem lies with bad owners, image and bad breeding, its a dagerous mixture and can lead to a situation such as the one described in the story, although the story itself doesn't really make any sense. take your average ghetto thug or white trash who wants a pit. can he afford a pure bred, breed standard pit bull? No, he's spent that money on rims and meth. So he goes to the guy a couple blocks or trailer parks away who has a litter of pups, which came from two dogs who were poorly bred, which came from a pit with a little presa or a little cane corso mixed in, which each came from inbred dogs, and each came from a bad owner which came from a bad upbringing, but hey, they can sell a bunch of pit pups and make a lot of money!!
But back to negro joe and jimmy trailer; who want their pits to look tough and provide an air of strength about them. they haven't had dogs before, but they want a pit because a pit provides an image that they want to convey. But they get a little tired of taking care of a puppy cuz they also want more rims, grills, crack and meth... and they aren't the best people in the first place so they neglect the dogs, maybe let them wander free or just chain them up. The dogs aren't socialized, aren't trained, are hungry, are lonely and depressed and eventually become a bit apprehensive of humans. At this point we have the state of many pit bulls in america, which really can't be classified as pit bulls anymore, more aptly they are "image bulls." But they still have traits of pit bulls, such as tenacity, strong jaws and athletic prowess. Do i believe each of these dogs is an inhererent danger to the world? probably not, but i don't think they are anywhere near as dependable as a well bred american pit bull terrier. There are certain conistencies that dogs need in their lives to become members of society, which if you own a dog, you need to prepare a dog for the real world. At this point though, you have many dogs out there with short hair and a big head, called pit bulls, doing things completely misrepresentative of the breed, such as the situation above, even though that story seems suspicious to say the least.
Pit bulls are the most abused and most exploited breed in the world essentially, and that is how we have arrived at the situation of the breed we have today. That might be the simple explanation you need.
Excellently put. I agree 1000% ;D
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Traps, I dont disagree w/ much of that, and you seem to know these dogs and could responsibly own one.
That dont change the fact that most ppl that have them dont fit in your category.
The "Breed" is contaminated. Better they'd stayed in the hands of the old timers who fought them.
Again NOTE - Its not the Dogmen's animals involved in these maulings. Its idiots who dont have a clue what they got on their hands.
I do responsibly own a pit bull and my girlfriend works for the SPCA and I do volunteer work there so we are both on the "frontlines" so to speak. We see every side of the story for better or for worse
The breed is not contaminated, the american pit bull terrier is just fine. Poorly bred dogs labled as pit bulls are the problem. What needs to be done is some sort of bill needs to be passed, that does something about the backyard breeding epidemic, which is indeed the heart of the problem. If you can't afford a well bred dog, you probably shouldn't own a dog. Dogs are not a right, they are a privelidge.
Your response of the dogs being better off with the fighters is extremely cynical and i can't agree with it, but i do see where you are coming from.