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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: columbusdude82 on September 11, 2007, 03:58:20 PM
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Two visions for Ohio (5 minute Youtube video) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFeoFGow1oU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFeoFGow1oU)
Typical of the preachers of hate in this country... the Columbus Monthly magazine reports:
Parsley, his wife, Joni, and their two young children live in a five-bedroom house they have built next to his parents’ house on a 21-acre compound in northwest Fairfield County. The compound has an electronic gate at the road to discourage uninvited visitors, and stables and a corral have been built in one corner. Rod Parsley’s home is worth $857,090, say records at the Fairfield County recorder’s office. His parents’ home, also new, is valued at $831,480. Each was built with a $200,000 mortgage taken out in 1990. ... Parsley also owns a $500,000 jet, a seven-passenger Hawker Siddeley 125.
These nutjobs sicken, and I don't know if I feel sorry or contempt towards the fools who give their money to him and his kind.
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... and people wander why the Republicans lost Ohio so bad...
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What point are you trying to make columbus? Whatever it is, you're protesting too much.
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Am I?
How so? Do you want some hypocritical Bible-thumping nutjob running your life?
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Yes.
By trying to portray all preachers as nuts. It's really silly. "Bible-thumping nutjobs" don't run my life.
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I didn't ask if they did. I asked if you'd want them to :)
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Distinction without a difference. No I don't want them to. No they don't. Essentially same difference.
Still, you're being an extremist, which is ironic because you're apparently trying to make a point about extremism.
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I'm being an extremist because I don't want Rod Parsley and his followers imposing their opinions on the rest of us as Ohio law .... sure....
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I'm as anti-religious as you are, but the money these preachers make is an example of the free market at work. Obviously, a number of deluded people feel there is value in what he has to say, and pay him accordingly. If he ceases delivering what they perceive as value, they'll cease paying him.
Makes me think I should start a church and sell "Jebus" to the brain-dead godbots. I could use a private plane. ;D
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I'm being an extremist because I don't want Rod Parsley and his followers imposing their opinions on the rest of us as Ohio law .... sure....
No, you're being an extremist "by trying to portray all preachers as nuts." Your anti-religious crusade is extremist.
And how exactly is "Rod Parsley and his followers imposing their opinions on the rest of [you] as Ohio law"? If this is about voting then go to the polls. What's the big deal? You don't gain or lose the right to participate in the political process because you are Christian.
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I said in my first post that Parsley is "typical of the preachers of hate in this country." You say I try to portray all preachers as nuts.
I said no such thing, unless you think all preachers are preachers of hate! Do you think that?
As for your next claim, Christian or not, you don't have the right to impose your opinions on my testicles or anyone's private parts. Parsley appeals to the basest of instincts by promoting hatred of anyone who is different, e.g. Muslims, gays, and anyone who doesn't want to be subjected to Christianist fascism.
Of course, if you had watched the video to which I provided the link, you'd know all that.
Religion may talk about life in the next world, but it is all about grabbing power in this one. It cannot rest until it imposes its pettiest rules on the rest of us who want to be free from it. Talk about how "Religion Poisons Everything."
Not one time did these people think of living out their own Christianist values and minding their own business. Instead they want to legislate their Christianist values into law and force them on everyone else!
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In rural Ohio, guys like Parsley still has a lot of pull. That's the sick truth.
Doesn't matter how enlightened the big cities gets, once you get far out in the countryside, it's "Deliverance" all over again. :-X
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Hedge, you are sadly correct. As much as I love this state, I just can't stand that aspect of it. The man is such a charlatan, such an obvious fake...
Fortunately though, so many of the young people from rural Ohio will come to that great secular institution, Ohio State, where their prejudices are challenged...
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Good video. It will pump up those on either sides of the issues. I was hoping to go to a similar "values voters" summit in Washington. I'm encouraged when I watch that video for a couple of reasons.
1. It finally seems that those who feel this country has fallen vastly astray from its original character have awakened and are ready to fight
and
F. If this is just a snapshot of the passion that we'll see from voters from all spectrums, we'll actually see more people get out and vote. Since I was 18 years old and able to vote, I've seen a major decline at the polls. It seems people care now.
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Colossus, you seem like the evangelical type, no offense :)
Are you familiar with the "work" of this pastor?
His religious preachings are right on the intersection of silly and blasphemous, his requests for money are shameless, and his alliances within the evangelical movement involve the likes of Benny Hinn...
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Colossus, you seem like the evangelical type, no offense :)
Are you familiar with the "work" of this pastor?
His religious preachings are right on the intersection of silly and blasphemous, his requests for money are shameless, and his alliances within the evangelical movement involve the likes of Benny Hinn...
Put me in any category you like, bro. To be truthful, C-dude, I'm only interested in sharing the Gospel man and staying as true to its teaching as possible. Yet I realize all fall short of the perfection of it.
I'm definitely not a big fan of Parsley. Kind of put him in the category of T.D. Jakes, Joel Olsteen, etc. I want to believe that these pastors started out with their hearts in the right places, but somewhere along the way they have gotten caught up in the influence of the money versus the influence of using their gift to bring others to a personal relationship with Christ.
I'm impressed with the likes of Sen. Walter Jones, Ken Blackwell, and Sam Brownback. They are politicians who seem to get it.
Surely you'll now tell me how "ignorant" I am.
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If you don't like what the guy says..don't listen or support him. people have the right to listen to, accept or reject his teachings...if you don't like the nutjob say so, but don't belittle people for listening.
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If you don't like what the guy says..don't listen or support him. people have the right to listen to, accept or reject his teachings...if you don't like the nutjob say so, but don't belittle people for listening.
Sure.
The problem is the anti-intellectual environment that is a reality in rural Ohio.
A guy like Parsley preys on this, and since there are little options, it's easy to become a zealot.
In a place with intellectual debate, diversity and debates, a guy like Parsley don't stand a chance.
But areas like this... it's where he can spread his venom.
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Sure.
The problem is the anti-intellectual environment that is a reality in rural Ohio.
A guy like Parsley preys on this, and since there are little options, it's easy to become a zealot.
In a place with intellectual debate, diversity and debates, a guy like Parsley don't stand a chance.
But areas like this... it's where he can spread his venom.
So, Parsley is the only one who preys on the belittled knowledge of others? ???
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Sure.
The problem is the anti-intellectual environment that is a reality in rural Ohio.
A guy like Parsley preys on this, and since there are little options, it's easy to become a zealot.
In a place with intellectual debate, diversity and debates, a guy like Parsley don't stand a chance.
But areas like this... it's where he can spread his venom.
you call it venom, some called it salvation or whatever he preaches...i have no idea because i don't know the guy from adam..but when we start trying to dictate what people listen to, read, and watch then we start meddling in lives that shouldn't be meddled with..whether it's venom or not, i don't know, but i'd much rather be given free choice to choose to listen or not to listen than have some government hack tell me what i can or cannot do...
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How is "salvation" involved in enacting state laws that discriminate against gays, for instance?
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it isn't, but some believe that homosexuality is a sin...so they believe that what they are doing they are saving themselves and the rest of us..delusional as it sounds to you,,it's their right to believe --you have a problem with it, fine, but to resort to name calling makes you sound immature and your argument that all religious preachers are ''nuts'' baseless.
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I happen to agree with you though, C-dude...I believe these guys are leeches and that these beliefs systems cause more harm than good...but if the catholic church (which I happened to be retired from) can still run around preaching abstinence, pro-life, and still hide the molestation of children from the public then i guess guys like Parsley can preach his form of ''religion''...
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As a recovering ex-Catholic myself, I sympathize with your views.
BUT if people have a problem with homosexuality, then they should abstain from homosexual sex. I abstain from homosexual sex every day. It's not that hard! Neither they nor I have the right to intrude into other people's bedrooms. I would ridicule gays if they wanted to pass laws forcing the rest of us (dudes) to svck c0ck, and I am ridiculing the Parsleys for wanting to force their bedroom rules on everyone else. (Or should I say, public bathroom rules ;) )
I did NOT argue that all religious preachers are nuts, so you may now retract that accusation :)
I am all FOR Parsley preaching his form of religion. I am all against him and his like riding the swagger of power over blind followers to get contributions and money and legislate morality for the rest of us.
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The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs of course not all but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
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you call it venom, some called it salvation or whatever he preaches...i have no idea because i don't know the guy from adam..but when we start trying to dictate what people listen to, read, and watch then we start meddling in lives that shouldn't be meddled with..whether it's venom or not, i don't know, but i'd much rather be given free choice to choose to listen or not to listen than have some government hack tell me what i can or cannot do...
My problem is the extreme intellectual poverty in these regions.
Sure, you may be a Manhattan native, who's getting your daily dose of intellectual input from everywhere. Or perhaps you're born and bred in the University area up in north east.
But these people, they're just in an intellectual vacuum, for lack of better wording.
They're a world apart from the rest of the USA.
Visit Columbus. Then travel 40 minutes in any direction, out in the countryside. You will feel the brain drain.
Whether or not homosexuality is ok is not the issue. The issue is that intolerance and lack of intellectualism is so prevalent.
I've seen all of this with my very own eyes.
I would recommend anyone to see this side of USA. :-\
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Yes Hedge. You are so right.
In my three years in Columbus, I have been amazed at how open, educated, enlightened, vibrant, fun, and cosmopolitan this city is.
Yet you travel outside to the small towns, you meet people who are deeply racist, sexist, prejudiced, homophobic, and - shall we say - highly deficient in critical thinking skills.
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The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs of course not all but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
And how did you arrive at this conclusion, OzmO? Can you show me your statistics, show me some numbers? Can you show me your studies and research?
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And how did you arrive at this conclusion, OzmO? Can you show me your statistics, show me some numbers? Can you show me your studies and research?
So, loco, are you saying there haven't been Pastors who've been exposed for homosexuality, Adultery, stealing church funds and doing drugs?
::)
Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do. But yet, we hear about some of these pastors in the news from time to time and how many more do we NEVER here about because they aren't news worthy even in their local news markets? And you'd have to think that if they caught a few, there are probably many more doing sinful dispecable things and still haven't been caught.
So much for the Holy Spirit sales pitch. ::)
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So, loco, are you saying there haven't been Pastors who've been exposed for homosexuality, Adultery, stealing church funds and doing drugs?
::)
No, I am not saying that.
Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do. But yet, we hear about some of these pastors in the news from time to time and how many more do we NEVER here about because they aren't news worthy even in their local news markets? And you'd have to think that if they caught a few, there are probably many more doing sinful dispecable things and still haven't been caught.
So much for the Holy Spirit sales pitch. ::)
That is not what you said above. You said:
The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs of course not all but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
And I am asking you: how did you arrive at this conclusion, OzmO? Can you show me your statistics, show me some numbers? Can you show me your studies and research?
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No, I am not saying that.
That is not what you said above. You said:
And I am asking you: how did you arrive at this conclusion, OzmO? Can you show me your statistics, show me some numbers? Can you show me your studies and research?
Having problems understanding English today?
I said:
The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs of course not all but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
then I further explained:
Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do.
Summary:
1. I said the percentage is too high.
2. You asked for studies showing the percentage
3. I responded by explaining my point further that: "Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do. "
Did the holy spirit leave these pastors?
Are you gonna mis direct the subject again?
Or can you answer or respond to the assertion: The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs, of course not all, but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
Is the power of the holy spirit as identified in the Bible so weak?
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Having problems understanding English today?
I said:
The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs of course not all but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
then I further explained:
Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do.
Summary:
1. I said the percentage is too high.
2. You asked for studies showing the percentage
3. I responded by explaining my point further that: "Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do. "
Did the holy spirit leave these pastors?
Are you gonna mis direct the subject again?
Or can you answer or respond to the assertion: The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs, of course not all, but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
Is the power of the holy spirit as identified in the Bible so weak?
"Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do. "?
Amymore than one percent of what? 100%? How can you be certain 100% of all men in the "pastoral ranks" ever had the "power of the holy spirit"?
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Yes Hedge. You are so right.
In my three years in Columbus, I have been amazed at how open, educated, enlightened, vibrant, fun, and cosmopolitan this city is.
Yet you travel outside to the small towns, you meet people who are deeply racist, sexist, prejudiced, homophobic, and - shall we say - highly deficient in critical thinking skills.
It's like that in all places...Every place in the us has that elmer gantry type preacher who preaches old time country values...values that are pretty well meaning too but some rather pretty vile...you see this in every town..i went to college in a small town in pennsylvania...about an 90 minutes outside philadelphia and they were the most open minded and accepted individuals..yet, i grew up in inner city philadelphia and saw and experienced more racism, homophobia, and sexism in one week than i experienced in 5 years of college...it's not just unique to small towns--philadelphia is a host to many respected universities but it's still a deeply divided racially.
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"Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do. "?
Amymore than one percent of what? 100%? How can you be certain 100% of all men in the "pastoral ranks" ever had the "power of the holy spirit"?
Are you implying that some pastors haven't accepted Jesus Christ as thier saviors? ::)
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Are you implying that some pastors haven't accepted Jesus Christ as there saviors? ::)
Why can't you answer a simple question, OzmO? Then you go on saying that I avoid/ignore your questions.
Amymore than one percent of what? 100%? How can you be certain 100% of all men in the "pastoral ranks" ever had the "power of the holy spirit"?
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Why can't you answer a simple question, OzmO? Then you go on saying that I avoid/ignore your questions.
Amymore than one percent of what? 100%? How can you be certain 100% of all men in the "pastoral ranks" ever had the "power of the holy spirit"?
ok, for the third time now I'll say thing since your position or your response is SO WEAK that you have to go back to your mis-read assumption of my point.
I said:
The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs of course not all but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
then I further explained:
Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do.
Summary:
1. I said the percentage is too high.
2. You asked for studies showing the percentage
3. I responded by explaining my point further that: "Anymore than one is too much and far from what the power of the holy spirit is billed as being able to do. "
Did the holy spirit leave these pastors?
Are you gonna mis direct the subject again?
Or can you answer or respond to the assertion: The pastoral ranks are filled with nut jobs, of course not all, but a far larger percentage then it should be considering the "power of the holy spirit"
Get it now? Or are you gonna bring up abortion because you have no where to go? ::)
Here's the question again:
Are you implying that some pastors haven't accepted Jesus Christ as there saviors? ::)
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So, loco, are you saying there haven't been Pastors who've been exposed for homosexuality, Adultery, stealing church funds and doing drugs?
::)
Has the pastor in this video been exposed for homosexuality, adultery, stealing church funds and doing drugs?
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ok, for the third time now I'll say thing since your position or your response is SO WEAK that you have to go back to your mis-read assumption of my point.
Get it now? Or are you gonna bring up abortion because you have no where to go? ::)
Here's the question again:
You have not answered my question because you won't admit that you are just making baseless statements, accusations, and throwing numbers and percentages that you came up with in your head.
Are you implying that some pastors haven't accepted Jesus Christ as there saviors? ::)
No need to imply
"Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is one"
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=108681.msg1567943#msg1567943
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You have not answered my question because you won't admit that you are just making baseless statements, accusations, and throwing numbers and percentages that you came up with in your head.
Didi i indicate a percentage in my assertion? NO.
Therefore any percentage is correct to my assertion. And even it it is just 1 person among thousands which it is obviously not, then it's too much.
No need to imply
"Not everyone who claims to be a Christian really is one"
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=108681.msg1567943#msg1567943
Wow, so God can't even insure that the people representing his WORD are legitimate? So much for omnipresence.
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Didi i indicate a percentage in my assertion? NO.
Therefore any percentage is correct to my assertion. And even it it is just 1 person among thousands which it is obviously not, then it's too much.
::)
Whatever, OzmO! I know you won't answer my question so I'll just drop it.
Wow, so God can't even insure that the people representing his WORD are legitimate? So much for omnipresence.
God does not have to. These things have a way of coming to the light on their own. And the word is Omnipotence, meaning God can do anything. Omnipresence is another one of God's attributes, but it means that He is everywhere.
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Oh brother... why don't the two of you just get a room 8)
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::)
Whatever, OzmO! I know you won't answer my question so I'll just drop it.
If your question was based exactly on my assertion i would. Besides, who keeps records of those things?
God does not have to. These things have a way of coming to the light on their own. And the word is Omnipotent, meaning God can do anything. Omnipresence is another one of God's attributes, but it means that He is everywhere.
How many people will be led astray because GOD did not make sure the pastor was true?
Not a very good system.
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Oh brother... why don't the two of you just get a room 8)
Every time i suggest it he goes back to my abortion views. 8) ;D ;)
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Every time i suggest it he goes back to my abortion views. 8) ;D ;)
I am guessing he is against contraception too.
Maybe you can talk him into natural family planning 8)
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Every time i suggest it he goes back to my abortion views. 8) ;D ;)
Does it bother you that I do that? Is it off topic when I bring it up? How about you bringing up the Amalekites and the "3000 dead men in exodus" when the topic has nothing to do with it. See my point?
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Does it bother you that I do that? Is it off topic when I bring it up? How about you bringing up the Amalekites and the "3000 dead men in exodus" when the topic has nothing to do with it. See my point?
Nope, not at all. The subject is about GOD killing and they both relate. My views on abortion do not.
Get it?
;D
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Oh brother... why don't the two of you just get a room 8)
Every time i suggest it he goes back to my abortion views. 8) ;D ;)
Every time you suggest it, I have to remind you that I am straight...oh, and that I believe homosexuality is a sin too.
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Every time you suggest it, I have to remind you that I am straight...oh, and that I believe homosexuality is a sin too.
It didn't stop Ted Haggard... ;)
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Nope, not at all. The subject is about GOD killing and they both relate. My views on abortion do not.
Get it?
;D
Well, if it doesn't bother you, then stop whining about it. I don't care either. And I was talking about threads that have nothing to do with either topic.
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It didn't stop Ted Haggard... ;)
Who is Ted Haggard?
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Preacher, head of a megachurch in Colorado, president of the National Association of Evangelicals... google him :)
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Preacher, head of a megachurch in Colorado, president of the National Association of Evangelicals... google him :)
ok
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Well, if it doesn't bother you, then stop whining about it. I don't care either. And I was talking about threads that have nothing to do with either topic.
Who's is whining? I'm just joking with you about it in the last few responses and in the other ones where i bring it up I'm only exposing it for what it is: A weak ploy to distract from the original argument because yours is so unsubstantial.
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I said in my first post that Parsley is "typical of the preachers of hate in this country." You say I try to portray all preachers as nuts.
I said no such thing, unless you think all preachers are preachers of hate! Do you think that?
As for your next claim, Christian or not, you don't have the right to impose your opinions on my testicles or anyone's private parts. Parsley appeals to the basest of instincts by promoting hatred of anyone who is different, e.g. Muslims, gays, and anyone who doesn't want to be subjected to Christianist fascism.
Of course, if you had watched the video to which I provided the link, you'd know all that.
Religion may talk about life in the next world, but it is all about grabbing power in this one. It cannot rest until it imposes its pettiest rules on the rest of us who want to be free from it. Talk about how "Religion Poisons Everything."
Not one time did these people think of living out their own Christianist values and minding their own business. Instead they want to legislate their Christianist values into law and force them on everyone else!
I don't impose my views on anyone. Neither do people like Parsley. If you disagree with him or any other Christian then go vote. If people don't want legislated Christian values then they can vote against those issues. Again, what's the big deal? That's how democracy works.
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Who's is whining? I'm just joking with you about it in the last few responses and in the other ones where i bring it up I'm only exposing it for what it is: A weak ploy to distract from the original argument because yours is so unsubstantial.
OzmO,
I don't mind if you are joking or "exposing it for what it is". The problem is that once you bring up something we have discussed over and over again in another thread, something that has nothing to do with the current topic, we will get the current thread off topic. I will not just let it go, I will resume our discussion every time you do that.
If you were not satisfied with my answers to your issues, then keep debating me on the topic in the appropriate thread, instead of abandoning the original discussion and bringing it up in other unrelated threads.
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Neither do people like Parsley.
You don't notice the contradiction in your statements. You say he doesn't impose his views on others, then you admit he wants to legislate Christianist values...
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You don't notice the contradiction in your statements. You say he doesn't impose his views on others, then you admit he wants to legislate Christianist values...
columbusdude82,
Who are you addressing this to?
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Sorry, I quoted that from BeachBum's post. My bad.
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Sorry, I quoted that from BeachBum's post. My bad.
Oh, okay. No problem. ;D
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You don't notice the contradiction in your statements. You say he doesn't impose his views on others, then you admit he wants to legislate Christianist values...
Not at all. Asking someone to vote a certain way isn't imposing anything. So what if the guy wants laws that promote Christian values. Big deal. If enough people agree, then those types of laws will pass. If people disagree, they won't pass.
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So presumably you have no problem with gays mounting a campaign to amend the laws to force everyone to engage in homosexual sex?
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So presumably you have no problem with gays mounting a campaign to amend the laws to force everyone to engage in homosexual sex?
I have no problem with anyone using the democratic process to pass laws, including the absurd one you just mentioned.
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Why is it any more absurd?
Both that (imaginary) case I mentioned and Parsley's all too real plans aim to control other people's private sex lives.
If Parsley can presume to interfere in other people's bedrooms, other people can tell him where to...
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If your question was based exactly on my assertion i would. Besides, who keeps records of those things?
How many people will be led astray because GOD did not make sure the pastor was true?
Not a very good system.
How so? Why would God stop a man who is preaching the truth about Jesus Christ, whether he is a Christian or not?
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Why is it any more absurd?
Both that (imaginary) case I mentioned and Parsley's all too real plans aim to control other people's private sex lives.
If Parsley can presume to interfere in other people's bedrooms, other people can tell him where to...
Oh come on. If you're talking about homosexual marriage, that is asking the state to sanction what goes on in someone's bedroom. Your hypothetical forces people to have sex. Ridiculous.
In any event, democracy rules. If someone wants to propose a law that forces people to have homosexual sex, then more power to them. No legislator will be dumb enough to introduce it. On the other hand, nearly every state in the country has either passed a law prohibiting homosexual marriage and/or rejected laws requiring homosexual marriage. Democracy in action.
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How so? Why would God stop a man who is preaching the truth about Jesus Christ, whether he is a Christian or not?
Is he? Haw can he be credible if he is engaging in major sins? How much damage has he done to how people view "the Word" and the power of salvation if he doing the things that contradict what he preaches?
How can God allow those people to be soured and mislead by people representing him who are in many cases more vile than the very people they are preaching to?
Anther big kink in the armor of the alleged "word of God" in the bible.
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Oh come on. If you're talking about homosexual marriage, that is asking the state to sanction what goes on in someone's bedroom. Your hypothetical forces people to have sex. Ridiculous.
In any event, democracy rules. If someone wants to propose a law that forces people to have homosexual sex, then more power to them. No legislator will be dumb enough to introduce it. On the other hand, nearly every state in the country has either passed a law prohibiting homosexual marriage and/or rejected laws requiring homosexual marriage. Democracy in action.
I wasn't quite talking gay marriage, more contraception and discrimination laws.
But since you bring it up, I am surprised how those people whose marriages are so threatened by monogamous lesbians who have been together for 30 years, don't feel that the sanctity of marriage is at all affected by Britney Spears' weekend long marriages, and the general promiscuity, adultery, and high divorce rate of the heterosexual population at large.
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Is he? Haw can he be credible if he is engaging in major sins? How much damage has he done to how people view "the Word" and the power of salvation if he doing the things that contradict what he preaches?
How can God allow those people to be soured and mislead by people representing him who are in many cases more vile than the very people they are preaching to?
Anther big kink in the armor of the alleged "word of God" in the bible.
Is he what? How do you know that he is engaging in major sins, unless his sins come out in the open? And if we all know that he is engaging in major sins, then he won't be credible. If he is not credible, then how can people be mislead by him?
If he is engaging in major sins, whether in secret or in the open, he has just as much of an opportunity as anyone to repent and get saved. He also has as much free choice not to. It is his soul. As for anyone who may have put such a man in a pedestal, the Bible warns against putting anyone on a pedestal, preacher or not.
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I wasn't quite talking gay marriage, more contraception and discrimination laws.
But since you bring it up, I am surprised how those people whose marriages are so threatened by monogamous lesbians who have been together for 30 years, don't feel that the sanctity of marriage is at all affected by Britney Spears' weekend long marriages, and the general promiscuity, adultery, and high divorce rate of the heterosexual population at large.
I don't know precisely why so many people oppose homosexual marriage, but the fact people like Britney and J Lo treat normal marriage like a revolving door, etc. doesn't support an argument for homosexual marriage.
Importantly, this is something that has been rejected by liberals and conservatives alike. It isn't just "nut job" preachers who oppose. It has been rejected in liberal havens like Hawaii and Oregon and pretty much everywhere else it has come up for a vote.
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I am guessing he is against contraception too.
Maybe you can talk him into natural family planning 8)
No, I ain't Roman Catholic. ;)
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I am not saying it is an argument for or against gay marriage.
I was just wondering why those people who felt their marriages threatened by a pair of old dykes don't feel the least bit threatened by far more obvious and straightforward activities that undermine marriage.
They should pass a law banning divorce in any marriage that has lasted under 5 years. ;)
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Is he what? How do you know that he is engaging in major sins, unless his sins come out in the open? And if we all know that he is engaging in major sins, then he won't be credible. If he is not credible, then how can people be mislead by him?
If he is engaging in major sins, whether in secret or in the open, he has just as much of an opportunity as anyone to repent and get saved. He also has as much free choice not to. It is his soul. As for anyone who may have put such a man in a pedestal, the Bible warns against putting anyone on a pedestal, preacher or not.
I'm talking about the ones who get busted for things like doing meth and having sex with men, like that prominent penecostal pastor last year.
Like it or not leaders of churches are on a pedestal and their actions influence others people's salvation.
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I am not saying it is an argument for or against gay marriage.
I was just wondering why those people who felt their marriages threatened by a pair of old dykes don't feel the least bit threatened by far more obvious and straightforward activities that undermine marriage.
They should pass a law banning divorce in any marriage that has lasted under 5 years. ;)
How do you know married heterosexuals believe their marriages are threatened by lesbians? Also, not everyone who votes is married. Just fyi. :)
On the divorce law, go for it. Write your Congressman. :)
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I'm talking about the ones who get busted for things like doing meth and having sex with men, like that prominent penecostal pastor last year.
Like it or not leaders of churches are on a pedestal and their actions influence others people's salvation.
Good point, OzmO! And the Bible does address this, warning leaders and followers alike. This is why I stress with other Christians that they need to study the Bible daily, so that they won't be mislead. Leaders should know that they are held at a higher standard, while the rest should know not to put leaders, or anybody for that matter, on a pedestal.
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Good point, OzmO! And the Bible does address this, warning leaders and followers alike. This is why I stress with other Christians that they need to study the Bible daily, so that they won't be mislead. Leaders should know that they are held at a higher standard, while the rest should know not to put leaders, or anybody for that matter, on a pedestal.
And that goes back to God's Holy Spirit not doing it's job in the first place and God allowing this to happen.
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And that goes back to God's Holy Spirit not doing it's job in the first place and God allowing this to happen.
Should God take away the power to choose?
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Should God take away the power to choose?
That's not what I'm getting at.
I'm questioning God allowing his message of salvation to be distorted by people who actually haven't been saved but are in leadership positions in the church.
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And that goes back to God's Holy Spirit not doing it's job in the first place and God allowing this to happen.
It's all there in the Bible. God's Holy Spirit does His job through scripture. Unfortunately, many Christians don't read it. Even Paul commended those Christians who daily searched the Old Testament to test Paul's massage and made sure that Paul wasn't making stuff up. Christians should not put preachers on a pedestal. A preacher can preach the word of God and do much good, as long as he sticks to the truth, whether he is a Christian or not. If he sins and misleads people, that's between him and God. If people put him on a pedestal, then that's between them and God.
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That's not what I'm getting at.
I'm questioning God allowing his message of salvation to be distorted by people who actually haven't been saved but are in leadership positions in the church.
What is he supposed to do? I guess every preacher who commits the really bad sins could be struck down by lightening? Would be a little difficult to recruit new blood if the bad ones were constantly getting zapped. :)
I do have a huge problem with people in leadership positions who abuse their authority.
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What is he supposed to do? I guess every preacher who commits the really bad sins could be struck down by lightening? Would be a little difficult to recruit new blood if the bad ones were constantly getting zapped. :)
I do have a huge problem with people in leadership positions who abuse their authority.
I'm bewildered that the power of the holy spirit and God would not insure his message delivered by someone who has not truly accepted Jesus and in turn risk misleading people or setting a bad example and turning away followers.
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BeachBum, why not??? Given God's bloody brutal record of killing in the Old Testament, why not kill people today?
Or has he gone from omnipotent to impotent? I suspect as much :)
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I'm bewildered that the power of the holy spirit and God would not insure his message delivered by someone who has not truly accepted Jesus and in turn risk misleading people or setting a bad example and turning away followers.
In other words, take away the ability of a person to choose whether or not to do right or wrong.
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In other words, take away the ability of a person to choose whether or not to do right or wrong.
No.
An honest person still has a choice, but remains honest. A holy person should do the same with guidance from the holy spirit.
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No.
An honest person still has a choice, but remains honest. A holy person should do the same with guidance from the holy spirit.
What do you mean by a honest person and what do you mean by a holy person? How do you define "holy" person?
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No.
An honest person still has a choice, but remains honest. A holy person should do the same with guidance from the holy spirit.
True, although honest people do dishonest things and "holy" people do unholy things.
But I echo loco's questions about how you define honest and holy.
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True, although honest people do dishonest things and "holy" people do unholy things.
But I echo loco's questions about how you define honest and holy.
Is a Pastor a man of God?
Does a honest man tell the truth?
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Is a Pastor a man of God?
Does a honest man tell the truth?
A pastor should be a man of God, but a man of God isn't perfect. No man is perfect.
An honest man tells the truth. An honest man sometimes lies.