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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: suckmymuscle on September 30, 2007, 04:21:16 PM
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He would. Let's compare him to winner, Gay Gutler. Dorian was 260 lbs, only 14 lbs lighter than Gutler. When you take into consideration that Dorian is still harder than Jay at 270 lbs, you realize that they are at least tied in mass, and Dorian might actually have more. Dorian's conditioning is still better than Gay's at 270 lbs, which means that it is infinitely better at 260 lbs. Dorian 1995 has:
- A back as big as Gay's, but with superior separations and it is much harder.
- Quads are tied for size, but Dorian has better calves.
- Superior triceps.
- Superior abdominal/serratus separations
- Smaller waist.
On account of all that, Dorian would win:
- Back double biceps.(backs equivalent in size, but Dorian has better separations and hardness)
- Abs-and-thighs.(Dorian's waist is smaller and his abdominal separations are much better)
- Front lat spread(dorian's lats are as wide as Gutler's, and his taper is superior)
They would tie:
- Rear lat spread - It could go either way. Their backs are about the same in size and neither the two are missing anything in this mandatory.
- Side triceps - I still think Dorian has the best side triceps of a Mr.Olympia ever, but Gay's is very, very good. Both have long triceps bellies, and both are missing nothing in this mandatory.
Gutler would win:
Side chest - They are both missing nothing in this mandatory, but Gay's pecs are thicker, so it would go to him.
Front double biceps - Give it to Gay, because Dorian's arms mass doesen't add up in this pose.
The symmetry round would go to Dorian flat out because he has better taper than Gutler from the three angles.(front, back and sides)
In conclusion: Dorian would be the 2007 Mr.Olympia if he stepped onstage in the exact shape he was circa 1995. It is amazing that an Olympia physique from a dozen years ago would still be good enough to win the Olympia nowadays! The Yates was truly light-years ahead of his time!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Could you repeat that?
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i believe Jay's true weight last night was a soft 262-263 honestly, no way he was 274.
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I still think Wolf should have won, with 95 Dorian in 2nd. I would say 93 Dorian probably should have won.
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Cutler honestly shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Yates.
Cutler would look like a water balloon standing next to Yates.
Yates' back detail alone would make Jay look 3 weeks out.
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I agree that Doughian would beat Jaw Gutler.
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I agree that Doughian would beat Jaw Gutler.
I agree that both Dorian and Ronnie at their bests are infinitely superior to Gay. But Hulkster, there's no need to direspect Dorian by calling him "Doughian". Give a six-time standard-bearer his dues. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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there are a lot of faults you could call out Dorian for but conditioning IS NOT one of them.
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I agree that both Dorian and Ronnie at their bests are infinitely superior to Gay. But Hulkster, there's no need to direspect Dorian by calling him "Doughian". Give a six-time standard-bearer his dues. :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
8)
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i believe Jay's true weight last night was a soft 262-263 honestly, no way he was 274.
I think you're right , first time I saw him he looked leaner noticeably smaller in the legs .
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there are a lot of faults you could call out Dorian for but conditioning IS NOT one of them.
According to our good body Hulkster Dorian's conditioning was a myth !
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According to our good body Hulkster Dorian's conditioning was a myth !
he's wrong on that.
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I think dorian has a much better rear lat spread than Jay. I am very surprised you think that they are close.
so does Ronnie 98/99..
Jay is a step backward.
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he's wrong on that.
Oh anyone with any understanding of bodybuilding knows that , he doesn't lol
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According to our good body Hulkster Dorian's conditioning was a myth !
in the arms and quads dorian does not display good conditioning. very smooth. very 'dough like' see for yourself:
in the back and abs, you bet.
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you don't get much more puffy and dough like than that folks.
and there are 500 shots showing the same damn thing.
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Someone post a pic of Dorian from 95 please.
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in the arms and quads dorian does not display good conditioning. very smooth. very 'dough like' see for yourself:
in the back and abs, you bet.
even in that shot where his conditioning was a little off he's way harder than anyone onstage last night, look at the striations in the chest, Dorian's arms were always subpar.
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in the arms and quads dorian does not display good conditioning. very smooth. very 'dough like' see for yourself:
in the back and abs, you bet.
You are such a tool.
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you don't get much more puffy and dough like than that folks.
and there are 500 shots showing the same damn thing.
Dorian's complete physique was done dry & rock hard !
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Someone post a pic of Dorian from 95 please.
still very dough like in the arms.
sorry.
ND must be pulling his hair out right about now.
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You are such a tool.
why because I do not fall for the dorian hype?
the man could put pepperoni on his arms and you would have pizza:
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still very dough like in the arms.
sorry.
ND must be pulling his hair out right about now.
yawn never heard that empty claim before
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even in that shot where his conditioning was a little off he's way harder than anyone onstage last night, look at the striations in the chest, Dorian's arms were always subpar.
LOL ND is going to love you for that.
his conditioning was not a little off. that shot is from 1993! his best ever shape! hahahaha
like I said, dough like arms and quads.
why the nuthuggers cannot admit what everyone can see is beyond me.
oh wait, no it isn't: they are so biased they see whatever they want to see.
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why because I do not fall for the dorian hype?
the man could put pepperoni on his arms and you would have pizza:
Looks like polished marble to me.
Maybe he doesn't genetically have striations?
Weird.
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why because I do not fall for the dorian hype?
the man could put pepperoni on his arms and you would have pizza:
your pathetic remarks are the result of your latest pathetic meltdown.
notice how you're the only one talking shit about dorian.
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Cutler honestly shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Yates.
Cutler would look like a water balloon standing next to Yates.
Yates' back detail alone would make Jay look 3 weeks out.
Yes, exactly. Gay is a very, very soft 14 lbs bigger than Dorian, but that's about it. When you include conditioning into the equation, I would say that they are roughly equivalent in muscle mass. The 14 lbs advantage gay has over Dorian is all fat and water. dorian was also 274 lbs at the night show at the 1997 Olympia, and he still looked much harder than Jay. When you consider that they are tied for mass, dorian's superior symmetry and conditionign would tip the scales in his favor.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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yawn never heard that empty claim before
funny you post two back shots, when I specifically mention his great conditioning in the back.. ::)
its amazing you got past grade 3 with your lack of reading comprehension skills.. :-\
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yawn never heard that empty claim before
That side try is perfection.
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LOL ND is going to love you for that.
his conditioning was not a little off. that shot is from 1993! his best ever shape! hahahaha
like I said, dough like arms and quads.
why the nuthuggers cannot admit what everyone can see is beyond me.
oh wait, no it isn't: they are so biased they see whatever they want to see.
bc you are pretty much the only one who can see it.
trying to change the subject of dorian's so called smoothness will not reverse ronnie's palumboism or the fact that ronnie ruined his legacy where as yates legacy is untarnished.
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your pathetic remarks are the result of your latest pathetic meltdown.
notice how you're the only one talking shit about dorian.
no, others on this thread are saying exactly what I am saying: his conditioning in the arms was a little off..
even in 1993 lol
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That side try is perfection.
back in 95.
things changed a little later on (refer to truce thread for 99 ronnie shot blowing that side tri off the map)
hahahaa
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LOL ND is going to love you for that.
his conditioning was not a little off. that shot is from 1993! his best ever shape! hahahaha
like I said, dough like arms and quads.
why the nuthuggers cannot admit what everyone can see is beyond me.
oh wait, no it isn't: they are so biased they see whatever they want to see.
You're damn right his conditioning is NOT off his conditioning is the yardstick in which conditioned mass is measured by ! Dorian's conditioning was better in 1993 than ANYONE in 2007 and his whole body is done dry & rock hard , not pieces all . ;)
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back in 95.
things changed a little later on (refer to truce thread for 99 ronnie shot blowing that side tri off the map)
hahahaa
That side tri shot you referred to sucks.
Its a dark shitty screencap where you cant even see half his arm.
Sorry.
Plus Ronnie looks like a mass of randomly cobbled together parts.
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funny you post two back shots, when I specifically mention his great conditioning in the back.. ::)
its amazing you got past grade 3 with your lack of reading comprehension skills.. :-\
Oh you can't see his arms in those ' back shots ' ::) can't see clear separation between every god-damn muscle in the who shot lol Dorian's conditioning was a myth lol classic
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You're damn right his conditioning is NOT off his conditioning is the yardstick in which conditioned mass is measured by ! Dorian's conditioning was better in 1993 than ANYONE in 2007 and his whole body is done dry & rock hard , not pieces all . ;)
That twisting arm shot is awesome also.
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That side tri shot you referred to sucks.
Its a dark shitty screencap where you cant even see half his arm.
Sorry.
Plus Ronnie looks like a mass of randomly cobbled together parts.
Ha Ha Ha Ha owned like a 4th place Coleman
Need to have balance & proportion to have a great side triceps shot , need to have calves lol need to have unrivaled density need to be dry as hell , you need to be Dorian Yates
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That side tri shot you referred to sucks.
Its a dark shitty screencap where you cant even see half his arm.
Sorry.
Plus Ronnie looks like a mass of randomly cobbled together parts.
bump.
so true.
by the way hulkser, which color pic of ronnie are you talking about?
lmao.
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Hulkster please allow me to teach you what bodybuilding is and is NOT this my friend is a arm that is in no way shape or form ' soft ' this is a bone dry and rock hard arms this is Dorian Yates
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Guys, don't turn this into the 10th incarnation of the truce thread. I started this to argue that Dorian 1995 would be able to defeat the 2007 rendition of Gay Gutler and win this year's Olympia. I don't want my thread merged with the other one because the topic is different. >:(
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Guys, don't turn this into the 10th incarnation of the truce thread. I started this to argue that Dorian 1995 would be able to defeat the 2007 rendition of Gay Gutler and win this year's Olympia. I don't want my thread merged with the other one because the topic is different. >:(
SUCKMYMUSCLE
I agree, the problem is this thread has no possible arguments.
There is no way Gutler could beat any rendition of Yates.
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Guys, don't turn this into the 10th incarnation of the truce thread. I started this to argue that Dorian 1995 would be able to defeat the 2007 rendition of Gay Gutler and win this year's Olympia. I don't want my thread merged with the other one because the topic is different. >:(
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Well said Dorian 1995 would have crushed Jay without effort . Jay is much bigger and wider but looks off season , hell Yates offseason would beat Jay
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bump.
so true.
by the way hulkser, which color pic of ronnie are you talking about?
lmao.
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Nice argument.
Well thought out.
Excellent explaining of your logic.
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anyone who was top 5 in the 90s would have won last night olympia
ANYONE
and thats fucking sad
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Well said Dorian 1995 would have crushed Jay without effort . Jay is much bigger and wider but looks off season , hell Yates offseason would beat Jay
He is not even bigger, let alone "much" bigger. I don't think he's even as big. The evidence? Dorian was 274 lbs by the night show of the 1997 Olympia, and he still looked harder than Gutler. What does that tell you? That Dorian carried at least as much but probably more mass than Cutler did this year! Gay was 14 lbs bigger than Dorian this year but when you put conditioning into the picture you realize he probably carried 5 lbs less muscle! :P
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Wolf would make dorian look like a little kid, even the grainy dorian coudnt stop the WOLF.
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Wolf would make dorian look like a little kid, even the grainy dorian coudnt stop the WOLF.
Noob meltdown.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Wolf would make dorian look like a little kid, even the grainy dorian coudnt stop the WOLF.
Haha.
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I'm a fan of Cutler, but he's not in Dorian's league.
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I'm a fan of Cutler, but he's not in Dorian's league.
Exactly.
I like Jay 01, early pre-pro Jay, and I think he won in 06.
He just can't compare to Dorian.
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Wolf would make dorian look like a little kid, even the grainy dorian coudnt stop the WOLF.
Wolf has a great structure and good size , however he's conditioning is less than stella I think a much improved Wolf would give Yates trouble but last nights version no way he's years away from being his best.
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anyone who was top 5 in the 90s would have won last night olympia
ANYONE
and thats fucking sad
each year you realize how much better guys where in the 90's.
superior conditioning.
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Wolf has a great structure and good size , however he's conditioning is less than stella I think a much improved Wolf would give Yates trouble but last nights version no way he's years away from being his best.
A tight midsection counts more then a pair of calves in bb. Dorian only has him at conditioning and back detail, on everything else WOLF is clearly superior, enough to be a better bb in my book.
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A tight midsection counts more then a pair of calves in bb. Dorian only has him at conditioning and back detail, on everything else WOLF is clearly superior, enough to be a better bb in my book.
Wolf's lats are too high, no calves, although he is wider and taller.
He definitely has the potential to be mentioned with the greats though.
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A tight midsection counts more then a pair of calves in bb. Dorian only has him at conditioning and back detail, on everything else WOLF is clearly superior, enough to be a better bb in my book.
BTW, Dorians midsection was very tight up to 93 and 95, his two best years.
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A tight midsection counts more then a pair of calves in bb. Dorian only has him at conditioning and back detail, on everything else WOLF is clearly superior, enough to be a better bb in my book.
See pics for a tight midsection , and weak calves can be seen in every pose in every angle , and Dorian's has him in muscle density & conditioning , and thickness especially in his back Yates' has lower lats better ba;ance & proportion and its okay you think Wolf is better in your book but your book isn't how contests are judged
Wolf has a clear edge in symmetry in the context of naturally wider clavicles and small waist & hips , but on the flip side Yates has the clear edge in balance & proportion
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If we wanna talk Dorian and conditioning check out the 92
version. I watched the 93 - 15 pounds heavier version and
I'm still not sure the 92 version is not better.
Watch them back to back and decide for yourself.
The added conditioning always makes someone appear larger than they
actually are.
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any version of yates would have won this year's olympia (except maybe 92).
every year - even his worst of 94, he was still in superior shape to anyone in 07.
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I too liked the look of dorian 92 better than 93 except for the arms.
dorian 92 would have decimated the 07 stage.
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Anyone who doesen't agree that Dorian 1995 would have won this year's Mr.Olympia is a moron. It is not even debatable. Amazing: a physique that won the Olympia a dozen years ago would still be good enough to win it today!
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Anyone who doesen't agree that Dorian 1995 would have won this year's Mr.Olympia is a moron. It is not even debatable. Amazing: a physique that won the Olympia a dozen years ago would still be good enough to win it today! :o
SUCKMYMUSCLE
it gets worse that that.
Shawn Ray's 87 nationals presentation would have still likely been good enough to win.
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it gets worse that that.
Shawn Ray's 87 nationals presentation would have still likely been good enough to win.
LOL,
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There are plenty of people who would say that arnold of year X could have won too.
They wouldn't be right either.
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There are plenty of people who would say that arnold of year X could have won too.
They wouldn't be right either.
Meltdown. Dorian was 260 lbs bone-dry in 1995 at a height of 5'10. Arnold at his biggest was 237 lbs at 6'2. Big difference! Arnold could never have won this year's Olympia because he would be too small for his height. His aeshtetics and symmetry would blow everyone away, yes, but he would be too lacking in the mass department. This is not the case with Dorian 1995. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Bump for this thread.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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He would. Let's compare him to winner, Gay Gutler. Dorian was 260 lbs, only 14 lbs lighter than Gutler. When you take into consideration that Dorian is still harder than Jay at 270 lbs, you realize that they are at least tied in mass, and Dorian might actually have more. Dorian's conditioning is still better than Gay's at 270 lbs, which means that it is infinitely better at 260 lbs. Dorian 1995 has:
- A back as big as Gay's, but with superior separations and it is much harder.
- Quads are tied for size, but Dorian has better calves.
- Superior triceps.
- Superior abdominal/serratus separations
- Smaller waist.
On account of all that, Dorian would win:
- Back double biceps.(backs equivalent in size, but Dorian has better separations and hardness)
- Abs-and-thighs.(Dorian's waist is smaller and his abdominal separations are much better)
- Front lat spread(dorian's lats are as wide as Gutler's, and his taper is superior)
They would tie:
- Rear lat spread - It could go either way. Their backs are about the same in size and neither the two are missing anything in this mandatory.
- Side triceps - I still think Dorian has the best side triceps of a Mr.Olympia ever, but Gay's is very, very good. Both have long triceps bellies, and both are missing nothing in this mandatory.
Gutler would win:
Side chest - They are both missing nothing in this mandatory, but Gay's pecs are thicker, so it would go to him.
Front double biceps - Give it to Gay, because Dorian's arms mass doesen't add up in this pose.
The symmetry round would go to Dorian flat out because he has better taper than Gutler from the three angles.(front, back and sides)
In conclusion: Dorian would be the 2007 Mr.Olympia if he stepped onstage in the exact shape he was circa 1995. It is amazing that an Olympia physique from a dozen years ago would still be good enough to win the Olympia nowadays! The Yates was truly light-years ahead of his time! :o 8)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
No need to write all this. You seem to think writing so much will make your points more valid. Dorian 1993 was better than Jay at the show. Just as Ronnie overall was better than Dorian overall. No need to write in depth to demonstrate these facts.
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No need to write all this. You seem to think writing so much will make your points more valid. Dorian 1993 was better than Jay at the show.
Dorian 1995 was better than Dorian 1993. Yeah, Dorian 1993 would still defeat Gay, but Dorian 1995 defeats both Gay and his 1993 version.
Just as Ronnie overall was better than Dorian overall.
Ha ha ha ha...and your reasons are? I have already provided enormous evidence for my case at the truce thread, while you have failed to provide any evidence at all, except saying that "Ronnie is better than Dorian". I find the Coleman fans hilarious. They believe that Ronnie is better than Dorian for no other reason than that's their opinion. What a a moron...
No need to write in depth to demonstrate these facts.
Fuck you.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
P.S: how does it make you feel that your hero was defeated by a fly named Dexter Jackson?
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No need to write all this. You seem to think writing so much will make your points more valid Just as Ronnie overall was better than Dorian overall. No need to write in depth to demonstrate these facts.
great post!
the nuthuggers seem to think that endless paragraphs of babbling will somehow make their invalid points stronger..
it doesn't work that way.
all that matters is how they look onstage..
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great post!
One Coleman guy agreeing with another. You proved me wrong! ::)
all that matters is how they look onstage..
Yes, except that what the judges are looking for is not the same as what you're looking for, Hulky. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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great post!
the nuthuggers seem to think that endless paragraphs of babbling will somehow make their invalid points stronger..
it doesn't work that way.
all that matters is how they look onstage..
Let me translate this post " I can't articulate my point and when I make a feeble attempt I fall flat on my face and look stupid in the process , so what I prefer to do is post pics are say " see Ronnie is better " and " everyone agrees with me "
Onstage at his best Yates was untouchable .
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Onstage at his best Yates was untouchable but only well before Ronnie hit his peak .
fixed.
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Don't you two have a six billion page thread for this shit?
PS Ronnie was better at his peak
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fixed.
Oh yeah peak Ronnie was lighter , lagged behind in balance & proportion and density & conditioning and just barely beat Flex Wheeler a man Dorian DOMINATED peak Ronnie doesn't offer anything Yates can't handle ;)
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Oh yeah peak Ronnie was lighter , lagged behind in balance & proportion and density & conditioning and just barely beat Flex Wheeler a man Dorian DOMINATED peak Ronnie doesn't offer anything Yates can't handle ;)
according to you and no one else. :P
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Oh yeah peak Ronnie was lighter , lagged behind in balance & proportion and density & conditioning and just barely beat Flex Wheeler a man Dorian DOMINATED peak Ronnie doesn't offer anything Yates can't handle ;)
I'll second that.
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according to you and no one else. :P
Wow I guess everyone else is right ::)
peak ( 1998 ) Ronnie had his hands full with Flex Wheeler a man who never once came close to Dorian Yates and when Dorian beat him he looked leaps & bounds better than he did in 1998 , Ronnie pulled a Jay Cutler and won by 3 points lol
peak Ronnie would be left for dead by Yates
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Wow I guess everyone else is right ::)
peak ( 1998 ) Ronnie had his hands full with Flex Wheeler a man who never once came close to Dorian Yates and when Dorian beat him he looked leaps & bounds better than he did in 1998 , Ronnie pulled a Jay Cutler and won by 3 points lol
peak Ronnie would be left for dead by Yates
I really don't care either way, i just like watching you guys flip out about contests that happened 10 years ago
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Was Jay even bigger than Dorian at last year's Olympia? He looked to be the same size, only much softer. However, even if Jay had greater size on Dorian, I agree that Dorian's overraç package in 1995 was much better - size + cuts + hardness + symmetry.
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Dorian's 95 condition was superb - perhaps his best. Dorian's 93 and 95 showings would both have won any Olympia since. I agree with ND about Flex in 98. He was a whisker away from winning and not as good as he had been in 93.