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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: pumpster on October 01, 2007, 10:01:10 AM
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Politics in many of the decisions, including Columbu over Padilla, Yates over various BBs, etc. now this.
Flex Wheeler speaking absolute common sense on this years' crap, after the show:
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1192/173/
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Politics in many of the decisions, including Columbu over Padilla, Yates over various BBs, etc. now this.
Flex Wheeler speaking absolute common sense on this years' crap, after the show:
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1192/173/
Pumpy, the Olympia is the supreme honor in bodybuilding; it represents the pinnacle of glory that eludes every bodybuilder. You just don't throw Sandows around. Like Shawn Ray once put it beautifuly:
"It's not about the money. I don't care about the money. It has always been about the Olympia. It has always been about fulfilling my destiny."
Victor Martinez is aesthetically superior to Gutler, and he has less symmetrical flaws, exactly the reason why Gay defeated him a by a single point. However, Victor is still not in the same league of Gay when it comes to sheer muscular development. Gutler carries some 20 to 30 lbs more lean muscle than martinez, and that's why he won. When the contest is this close, the reigning champ wins by default. Again: you just don't throw Sandows around: you need to take it.
The senior I.F.B.B judges who judge the Olympia had a very though call, and they decided to give it to Gay as a reward for his greater muscularity and because he's the reigining champ. So while the decision was partially political, the only reason why politics came into play is because the actual pysiques were so incredibly damn close overral. Trust me: if Martinez was clearly superior overral, the judges would have given it to him because no "politics" can save a reigning champ if the difference between him and his closest competitor is too great. You need to trust the wise and experienced judgement call of the I.F.B.B judges on this one, Pumpy! :)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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the olympia was ruined starting in 1972 , continued in 1980 and the year after that ... and im not going to go thru the list but yea ...started in1972, ask sergio.
hope this helps
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Integrity and Olympia DO NOT belong in the same sentence.
Hope this helps.
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Agreed it started in the early 70s, but there were worse decisions like Robinson never winning, Padilla getting screwed, some of Yates' abortions, etc.
Pumpy, the Olympia is the supreme honor in bodybuilding; it represents the pinnacle of glory that eludes every bodybuilder. You just don't throw Sandows around.
This is the theory and what they tell you, that's not necessarily the reality. All it takes is one questionable decision in 40 years to know there's something else goin on at least some of the time.
As far as Shawn Ray's comments, he's not saying there's no politics, he's saying it's the supreme honor-2 different things completely.
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You can't have a Mr. Olympia with OIL in his calves(plus biceps are looking a little odd too)... :-\ Until Victor understands that....I don't think he'll ever win.
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Politics in many of the decisions, including Columbu over Padilla, Yates over various BBs, etc. now this.
Flex Wheeler speaking absolute common sense on this years' crap, after the show:
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1192/173/
Flex said it like it is. Jay is not the real champ. Everybody who takes an honest look at the situation realizes that. I bet Jay even knows it deep down (and if he doesn't, then he's pretty good at deluding himself).
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Agreed it started in the early 70s, but there were worse decisions like Robinson never winning, Padilla getting screwed, some of Yates' abortions, etc.
This is the theory and what they tell you, that's not necessarily the reality. All it takes is one questionable decision in 40 years to know there's something else goin on at least some of the time.
As far as Shawn Ray's comments, he's not saying there's no politics, he's saying it's the supreme honor-2 different things completely.
Pumpy, this does not change the fact that Martinez was not clearly better than Gay. Like I said, he was more aesthetic and symmetrical, but Gay carried at least 20 and maybe 30 lbs of muscle more than Martinez. My point is that you are right that there was some politics involved in the decision, but that's only because it was so close. Another good example would be Dorian vs Haney at the 1991 Olympia. It was very close, and when it is that close the title goes to the reigning champ by default. There is no such thing as politics saving a reigning champ when his closest competitor is clearly superior. This has never happened in Olympia history. If Martinez had been clearly superior, he would have won.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I really don't give a shit anymore who wins. I was on the Cutler bandwagon all year but I have stepped off. He looked like shit and it was a travesty. Worse than Yates half bicep pose.
I will never waste my f**king time again watching this shit on a Saturday night when I could have been out picking up some plump women.
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yeah im done with everything IFBB/NPC......im just gonna lift ( when my shoulder heals)
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Pumpy, this does not change the fact that Martinez was not clearly better than Gay. Like I said, he was more aesthetic and symmetrical, but Gay carried at least 20 and maybe 30 lbs of muscle more than Martinez. My point is that you are right that there was some politics involved in the decision, but that's only because it was so close. Another good example would be Dorian vs Haney at the 1991 Olympia. It was very close, and when it is that close the title goes to the reigning champ by default. There is no such thing as politics saving a reigning champ when his closest competitor is clearly superior. This has never happened in Olympia history. If Martinez had been clearly superior, he would have won.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Agreed on all of the above, then on top of that add in Martinez's criminal background and MD. No one like that has been allowed to win.
Even so, just look at the response here; business as usual by the IFBB might not work this time. BB and even the IFBB's overall tragectory would have been better served by throwing the above considerations out for a change even when it's close, instead of continuing a physique look that is turning everyone off.
That's probably more important to the big picture than all of the above if they have their priorities right, which they don't. They're way too slow to address the bigger picture. Maybe that catches up with them this time re: Olympia rep.
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I've never really cared for bodybuilding shows, I find the "strength" side of the game far more interesting. As an outsider looking in, I must say this was the worst Olympia I've seen in a long time, and genuinely consider the 2000's the most lackluster era of bodybuilding.
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Hell ya it did. I guess the only one I will pay attention to is the Arnold. It's a good thing Phil Heath stayed out of this one, so that he doesn't have his name associated with such poor quality.
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I used to follow the Mr. O every year with anticipation. Now that the scripted 2007 fiasco has been finalized, I no longer want to tune into future Mr. O competitons. I'd rather watch regional or local shows than that gift Cutler received.
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This was my first Olympia and I was psyched!
I will not be going again. Totally disappointed in the judging.
What does the fact that Dennis Wolfe is "still young" have to do with his placing? He kicked Jays' ass up and down that stage.
Im sure Jay Cutler is a nice guy, but he couldn't even beat Jay Cutler of last year with this years "condition" or lack thereof...
And the event was NOT sold out. When Chicherello kept saying that, we the fans in the audience kept looking around at all of the empty seats.
On the finals, I had a ticket for row R....I paid good money for those tickets.
I walked all the way down to the very first row and watched the finals from there. Didn't need my binoculars at all.
Sandra
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Video doesn't work for me.
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I wanted to attend this Olympia, but after what some of you says, it seems like I didn't miss anything.
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Video doesn't work for me.
It's working..
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I went in 01 and haven't been back since, I follow bbing less and less every year.
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I wanted to attend this Olympia, but after what some of you says, it seems like I didn't miss anything.
I choose to go to the Arnold next year, I never wanted to go to the O, if I have to travel all the way to the USofA from Europe it has to be the Arnold, way more classy and prestige's than the O plus a chance to see my all time hero and rolemodel the Austrian Oak.
(http://www.goddudes.com/1.gif)
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Agreed on all of the above, then on top of that add in Martinez's criminal background and MD. No one like that has been allowed to win.
This is shooting for the stars. We have no way to know if his criminal record played a part or not. Dorian was a skinhead and spent several years in a juvenile facility as a youth, and he still won. What we do know is that it was very close, so there is no way that it can be demonstrated that the judges pretered Martinez for Gutler for any reasons other than physique. I can assure you that Martinez would have won even if he had killed someone if his physique was much better than Gay's. If Martinez had been clearly better and still lost, then yes, the explanation could only possibly be something political like a criminal record, but this is not the case.
Even so, just look at the response here; business as usual by the IFBB might not work this time. BB and even the IFBB's overall tragectory would have been better served by throwing the above considerations out for a change even when it's close, instead of continuing a physique look that is turning everyone off.
Mass is what the people who attend pro shows wats to see. It is as simple as that. Mass trumps everything else in the eyes of the hardcore fans, and the bottom line is that Gutler had more mass than Martinez by a considerable margin. I don't agree with it, as I like the total package, but this is what the fans want to see. Don't believe me? Look at how many people prefer the bloated, pregnant, soft Coleman of 2003 over the infinitely better 1998 version simply because the former version carried more mass.
That's probably more important to the big picture than all of the above if they have their priorities right, which they don't. They're way too slow to address the bigger picture. Maybe that catches up with them this time re: Olympia rep.
The I.F.B.B judges do have a judging criteria that takes all into consideration: mass, symmetry, structure and hardness, and they do try to apply it, only to be booed by the hardcore fans. Look how the judges are booed every time Markus Ruhl places low in a contest. He places low because he has nothing other than mass, but the crowd want to see mass freaks rewarded, so they boo the judges for trying to apply the criteria and mark Ruhl down for his lack of symmetry, aesthetics, conditioning, etc.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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The lighting this year was especially bad.
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Video still doesn't work. Any other ways to see it?
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Start a boycott of next year's Olympia and spend your money on the Arnold. If you hit the Olympia promoters in their pocketbooks, where it hurts, they'll have to make a change.
Seeing Cutler win, undeservedly, makes one think that we are back on the multiple Olympia bandwagon. Yates and Coleman didn't deserve all their wins and with Cutler it looks like same-old, same-old. Unless Jay pisses off the Weiders, like Bannout did, he can hold onto the Olympia for years.
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Even competitors have always mentioned that the Arnold was better run than the Olympia. It hasn't been the same since 1998...that was the truly the last great suspenseful year. It's been crappy ever since.
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Jay should retire with dignity and admit that he should of not won.
Then next year will have a guaranteed new champion plus everyone will be surprised that Jay actually thinks like 95% of the population.
Monster Hype Machine.
Discuss
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All the shows are lame. We should start a boycott of BB Mags.........who needs the magazines (which are nothing but advertisement vehicles) anyway? Fcuk Weider and all of those money grubbing whores! Getbig and other BB sites have all the contest coverage and information you could ever want and more.
If everyone stopped buying the shit supplements and mags the industry would change....for the better IMO.
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Jay should retire with dignity and admit that he should of not won.
Then next year will have a guaranteed new champion plus everyone will be surprised that Jay actually thinks like 95% of the population.
Monster Hype Machine.
Discuss
yes Jay "Veinless Steel" Cutler aka "olive oil" aka gay gutler should seriously contemplate retirement and focus on his social life and his neglected wife before she starts to fuck around. i think he will go into a deep depression the day he retires and will need heavy medication.
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He's a strictly business-minded kinda guy it seems. I doubt he would risk creating tension with sponsors by speaking his TRUE opinions.
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All the shows are lame. We should start a boycott of BB Mags.........who needs the magazines (which are nothing but advertisement vehicles) anyway? Fcuk Weider and all of those money grubbing whores! Getbig and other BB sites have all the contest coverage and information you could ever want and more.
If everyone stopped buying the shit supplements and mags the industry would change....for the better IMO.
I stopped buying mags because of getbig. They're just so stupid and all the same. Every once in a blue moon one will captivate me enough to buy it. ;D
Getbig has all the news and coverage 2 months ahead of time, and it's unedited.
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Ronnie got out too late....like three years late. It kinda makes you feel old when you see these people just deteriorate in front of your eyes. Then you have Vince Taylor
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He's a strictly business-minded kinda guy it seems. I doubt he would risk creating tension with sponsors by speaking his TRUE opinions.
of course not..olive oil probably thinks he really won the mr o, and even if he doesnt he will never admit it...just say that it was really close and could have gone either way and finish with saying that dennis wolf is a real good up and coming bb who needs to add 67lbs
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yes Jay "Veinless Steel" Cutler
WHAT DOES HAVING NO VEINS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING JAY WON HE BEAT DOWN ALL THE COMPETITION JAY JAY
...is what all the Jay fanboys would say in this topic. Hahaha, Cutler's arms were smoother than a baby's bottom.
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yes Jay "Veinless Steel" Cutler aka "olive oil" aka gay gutler should seriously contemplate retirement and focus on his social life and his neglected wife before she starts to fuck around. i think he will go into a deep depression the day he retires and will need heavy medication.
Let's see pics of your house, cars and "wife". If you've got better than Jay maybe you've got room to criticize.
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Let's see pics of your house, cars and "wife". If you've got better than Jay maybe you've got room to criticize.
So now we have to have more stuff than someone to voice an opinion? Epic logic
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Let's see pics of your house, cars and "wife". If you've got better than Jay maybe you've got room to criticize.
im not married. but i have a maid. does that count ?haaaaaaahahaha
go wipe yourself, you stinky you. :)
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This is shooting for the stars. We have no way to know if his criminal record played a part or not. Dorian was a skinhead and spent several years in a juvenile facility as a youth, and he still won. What we do know is that it was very close, so there is no way that it can be demonstrated that the judges pretered Martinez for Gutler for any reasons other than physique. I can assure you that Martinez would have won even if he had killed someone if his physique was much better than Gay's. If Martinez had been clearly better and still lost, then yes, the explanation could only possibly be something political like a criminal record, but this is not the case.
Mass is what the people who attend pro shows wats to see. It is as simple as that. Mass trumps everything else in the eyes of the hardcore fans, and the bottom line is that Gutler had more mass than Martinez by a considerable margin. I don't agree with it, as I like the total package, but this is what the fans want to see. Don't believe me? Look at how many people prefer the bloated, pregnant, soft Coleman of 2003 over the infinitely better 1998 version simply because the former version carried more mass.
The I.F.B.B judges do have a judging criteria that takes all into consideration: mass, symmetry, structure and hardness, and they do try to apply it, only to be booed by the hardcore fans. Look how the judges are booed every time Markus Ruhl places low in a contest. He places low because he has nothing other than mass, but the crowd want to see mass freaks rewarded, so they boo the judges for trying to apply the criteria and mark Ruhl down for his lack of symmetry, aesthetics, conditioning, etc.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
These are your particular explanations & interpretations, which are not necessarily reality. ;)
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Integrity and Olympia DO NOT belong in the same sentence.
You can say that again.
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Video still doesn't work. Any other ways to see it?
The money quote:
"I guess I'm just stupid, blind, ignorant, and dumb." - Flex Wheeler
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These are your particular explanations & interpretations, which are not necessarily reality. ;)
Better than blaming politics for any result you disagree with while supplying no evidence that the decisions were political! :P for instance, you claim that shawn won te 1994 olympia, when the fact is that it wasn't even close. It's not like Dorian won by 1 point or so. It's far more reasonable to accept the explanation that he won because he carried 60 lbs more muscle than shawn while still having good symmetry and excellent conditioning, rather than because Uncle Joe decided that Dorian should win for commercial reasons you've never explained. ;)
SUCKMYMUSCLE
P.S: Having a white guy win the Olympia is not as PC as having a black guy win it. Having a black guy win the Olympia actually sits better with the general public as far as Joe's image goes than having a white guy win it because it shows that he's not a racist.
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Even competitors have always mentioned that the Arnold was better run than the Olympia. It hasn't been the same since 1998...that was the truly the last great suspenseful year. It's been crappy ever since.
It always will, it is Arnold, we are talking about. Only the best....I think the Arnold should replace the Mr. O as the pinnacle of bodybuilding. If The Morning Show was going to interview a winner, what would have more cache, Mr. Olympia or The Arnold Swartzenegger Classic winner?
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old ben was right when he was on stage and said there'd be a surprise. the surprise was that the winner lost and jay got the award
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Politics in many of the decisions, including Columbu over Padilla, Yates over various BBs, etc. now this.
Flex Wheeler speaking absolute common sense on this years' crap, after the show:
http://mdtv.musculardevelopment.com/content/view/1192/173/
shut it u dumb-ass muppet......go back to smelling Ronnie's balls or whatever u do
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Ronnie got out too late....like three years late. It kinda makes you feel old when you see these people just deteriorate in front of your eyes. Then you have Vince Taylor
Vince Taylor only had 6 weeks prep and still looked as good as most of the top ten line up!! He agrees totally with the concensus on here by the way re the Olympia and wished he had not been injured and had had the time to get into top shape. Sees the poor 2007 line up as a missed opportunity for him and is looking to do some damage in 2008. I think he could show some of these young drug boated guns a thing or 2 next year!!
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Vince Taylor only had 6 weeks prep and still looked as good as most of the top ten line up!! He agrees totally with the concensus on here by the way re the Olympia and wished he had not been injured and had had the time to get into top shape. Sees the poor 2007 line up as a missed opportunity for him and is looking to do some damage in 2008. I think he could show some of these young drug boated guns a thing or 2 next year!!
he needs to bring up his legs (among other things). i doubt he will do that. guy is too old to do any real damage at the mr o.
he should focus on the smaller shows.
when vince was at his biggest in the mid 90s, guy was incredible. (way better than jay has ever been).
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Yeh, could crack top 5 again at the 'O' if 2007 is anything to go by. Regardless, Vince is Pure Class.
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if nothing change about the Olympia, it would make more sense to change the name to Mr OlymCrap.