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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Mixed Martial Arts (MMA/UFC) => Topic started by: americanbulldog on October 09, 2007, 06:49:24 PM
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Benny the Jet Urquidez lost two controversial matches that were scratched from his record.
They were against Narongnoi Kiatbandit and Prayuth Sittiboonlert.
Anyone have vids of these.
Don the Dragon Wilson, a student of Bill Wallace also has two losses in Thailand, Samart Prasmit, and another fighter. Again, can't find any videos of these as well.
The late great Andy Hug lost to Mr. Perfect Ernesto Hoost three times, while only beating him once. Hug also lost to Peter Aerts twice. Both of them thai boxers.
Rob Kaman, 98-11-1, some call him the greatest kickboxer of all time. He is the first European to beat the thai's at their game. Came from the infamous meijiro gym.
Deiselnoi Chor Thanasukarn, king of the knee. Retired from fighting because of no competition. , Beat karate champ John Moncayo barely breaking a sweat.
Sagat Petchyindee, one of the very greatest fighters ever. Beaten Rob Kaman and Ivan Hippolyte
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"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."
You left out that part.
Hoost and Aerts aren't pure Muay-Thai fighters; they're kickboxers.
Kickboxing developed by combining muay-thai and karate.
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Also, Hoost and Aerts were MUCH bigger than Andy Hug.
Full-Contact Karate fighter, and one of the smallest K-1 champs in history, Andy Hug, beating fighter from thailand:
Kickboxer and UFC vet Pat Smith losing to Seidokaikan Karate Fighter Satake:
Undefeated Shotokan Karate fighter Lyoto Machida knocking out Kickboxer Rich Franklin:
Undefeated Shotokan Karate fighter Lyoto Machida knocking out Kickboxer Stephan Bonner:
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K-1 champion and Karate Fighter Semmy Schilt beating Muay-Thai/Kickboxer Ernesto Hoost:
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Looks like you got a good argument going here guys! And with ChuteBoxe and Sincitysmallguy not being mods anymore nobody is going to delete it 8)
I'm getting some Popcorn! :)
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Hahahaha, here comes the excuses for Andy Hug. Hoost was 6'2 and barely 10 pounds heavier than Hug. Aerts is God. Ironic that the arguably two greatest K-1 fighters of all time are kickboxers. I'm a gigantic Hug fan, but his record against Hoost and Aerts was less than stellar.
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Looks like you got a good argument going here guys! And with ChuteBoxe and Sincitysmallguy not being mods anymore nobody is going to delete it 8)
I'm getting some Popcorn! :)
If I was Mod I would how ever delete this post.
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Sorry, been busy at work...
Here is a list of the top teams in MMA.
Xtreme Couture: Striking coaches, Ron Frazier, Sean Thompkins. Boxing, Muay Thai respectively.
Greg Jackson: Mike Winklejohn kickboxing (muay thai, MW is a former muay thai champ and Greg Jackson's only coach. Winklejohn, a former karate stylist, teaches Muay Thai.
AMC: Founded by Matt Hume and Haru Shimanishi. Haru, a former karate stylist, became a muay thai fighter and has opened two HMCs (Hawaii Martial Arts Center). He was Maurice Smith's coach during Mo's heydays. (Still can't make me into a stand up fighter, though.) Muay Thai
MMA Lab: Founded by Royce Gracie, a Fairtex center, head striking coach, Adam Gillespey, student of Walter "The Sleeper" Michowlski. A student of Kru Vut Kamnark. Muay Thai.
Minnesota MMA: Home of Sean Sherk and Brock Lesnar. Head coach, Gregg Nelson, student of Arjarn Chai Sirsuit, Muay Thai.
ATT Florida: Striking coaches, Howard Jackson (1976 gold medalist boxing) and Cristian Toleque (Muay Thai)
Undisputed San Diego: Striking coaches, Roberto Garcia, Jovan Jones, boxing. Kru Anan Borigut, Muay Thai.
Boxing Club San Diego: Head striking coach, Melchor Menor, Muay Thai world champion.
Chute Boxe: Rudimar Fedrigo, Muay Thai.
Black House: Home to UFC champion Anderson Silva, Vitor Belfort, Big Nog, Lil Nog, Nino Schrembi, and LYOTO MACHIDA. NO KARATE ON THE CURRICULUM., started by Anderson, Carlos Barreto and Big Nog, previously called the MUAY THAI DREAM TEAM.
Team Quest: On both Team Quest curriculums, no KARATE listed, but guess what, they have MUAY THAI.
At Legends MMA: Even though Bas was involved with founding it (he and Randy were only figureheads), interestingly enough, there is NO KARATE taught there. And yes, Bas was a karate black belt, but why no karate?
Big John McCarthys Ultimate training center: NO KARATE on the curriculum, even though one of the instructors is a Karate black belt. Guess what they do have there, you guessed it, Muay Thai.
Matt Serra's striking coach: Ray Longo teaches Matt boxing, and MUAY THAI.
So in summation,
UFC lightweight champ trains in boxing, muay thai (Sean Sherk)
UFC Welterweight champ trains in boxing, muay thai (Matt Serra)
UFC Middleweight champ trains in muay thai (Anderson Silva)
UFC Lightheavyweight champ trains in boxing and muay thai (Rampage Jackson)
UFC Heavyweight champ trains in boxing and muay thai (Randy Couture)
Rather than post video after video countering RKBB, I thought it would be best to just show people what PROFESSIONAL fight teams are doing, and let them decide themselves.
Intersetingly enough, a few examples given by RKBB as karate fighters, Lyoto Machida, GSP, Bas, former Karatekas are training guess what? (BTW, Kru Phil Nurse is GSP's head striking coach, and he doesn't teach him Karate)
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The biggest problem with the various styles of Karate is the absence of punches to the head and proper sparring. MOST styles seems to lack this.
That being said, I'm sure it's not a world of difference between a skilled Karate guy teaching low kicks versus a skilled Muay Thai coach doing the same thing.
With schools available to the general public, for commercial reasons it would probably be a better choice to teach Muay Thai rather than Karate that is more of yesterdays news and not the in thing right now. So that could be one reason.
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The biggest problem with the various styles of Karate is the absence of punches to the head and proper sparring. MOST styles seems to lack this.
That being said, I'm sure it's not a world of difference between a skilled Karate guy teaching low kicks versus a skilled Muay Thai coach doing the same thing.
With schools available to the general public, for commercial reasons it would probably be a better choice to teach Muay Thai rather than Karate that is more of yesterdays news and not the in thing right now. So that could be one reason.
This is the challenge with most TMAs. Too much technique, not enough sparring, drilling that would increase set attributes. Good thing about wrestling, judo, jiujitsu, muay thai is they are done in an "alive" setting against resisting opponents. Sparring is a HUGE component to their curriculum. What is the nonesense about "SELF DEFENSE." Why is there different methods, isn't sparring and fighting self defense? There are a lot of good karatekas, kung fu stylists, but they could be even better if they didn't innundate themselves with thousands of techniques, and simply drilled and sparred with techniques that are proven.
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This is the challenge with most TMAs. Too much technique, not enough sparring, drilling that would increase set attributes. Good thing about wrestling, judo, jiujitsu, muay thai is they are done in an "alive" setting against resisting opponents. Sparring is a HUGE component to their curriculum. What is the nonesense about "SELF DEFENSE." Why is there different methods, isn't sparring and fighting self defense? There are a lot of good karatekas, kung fu stylists, but they could be even better if they didn't innundate themselves with thousands of techniques, and simply drilled and sparred with techniques that are proven.
It's way better than most TMA but I wouldn't call it self-defense, I think there needs to be a different set up for that. I agree on the thousand technique part (which I've been talking about before to some extent in the "what defines a mixed martial artist-thread")
For self defense use even fewer techniques should be practiced.
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It's way better than most TMA but I wouldn't call it self-defense, I think there needs to be a different set up for that. I agree on the thousand technique part (which I've been talking about before to some extent in the "what defines a mixed martial artist-thread")
For self defense use even fewer techniques should be practiced.
Wow, we agree.
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This will be my last post on this topic.
A kick is a kick. The principal is the same whether you take Muay-Thai or Tae Kwon Do.
A roundhouse works the same way, as does a front kick. The power comes from proper pivoting of the hips...same with punching.
(Something most of these wrestlers in the UFC can't do...but they got a good enough ground game to pull the win most of the time.
I've always said a strong wrestler is the most dangerous single-style opponent.)
These ring-legal techniques (front kick, roundhouse, etc...) are tought in all the popular stand-up styles. No one style can claim a roundhouse kick or a front kick.
Now why are Muay-Thai, kickboxers, and Full-contact Karate guys more succsesful in MMA then?
The reason is simple. The afformentioned styles get people prepared to be hit. You can train a random yuppie all you want, but if they've never been hit they are going to crumble fast. In Knockdown Karate or Full-contact they practice with no protection, only barring head punches to prevent broken faces. Muay-Thai use gloves but allow face strikes. Kickboxing is sport karate or a combination of Muay-Thai and karate in it's origins. Point-sparring guys like Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan could POTENTIALLY be very good if they're natural fighters and do some kickboxing training to get their conditioning up to par (see Machida). They are usually very precise with their strikes (it's the nature of point sparring.)
There is very little useless technique in karate. If you eliminate all the various throat strikes and and katas you have kickboxing which is sport-karate. Karate was developed under time of war with Japan in okinawa. It was life or death. That's the reason they spend time striking the throat, kicking the groing, headbutting, etc. It's essentially pancratium in it's purest form.
Kata is very important for developing technique, proper shifting of the hips to generate power, endurance, etc. Guys that practice kata with a good instructor hit hard and precise. The principal is the same as typing or hitting a bag. You develop muscle memory through repetitive movements, so that complicated strikes become automatic. It's the same as learning anything really.
In sports where strikes to the throat and groing ar prohibited, you may as well take kickboxing, because kickboxing = that much more time you can spend on the principal ring-combat attacks (front kick, round kick, etc.) However, an expert karate fighter has the advantage of a greater arsenal of attacks (side-kick, spinning back-kick axe kick, etc.) and usually more precision. It takes longer to become effective with though because it's more comprehensive. In other words it's not for everyone.
Nonetheless, many of the best MMA fighters have an extensive background in karate. Bas Rutten is a karate expert. He's 5th degree in Kyokushin karate. Chuck Liddel is a blackbelt in a Kempo style that emphasizes full-contact training in heavy protection. Hence, his "kempo" tat. GSP trained in full-contact karate since he was a child to an adult until his sensei died; winning his first mma match against a boxer with "karate alone" to quote him. Lyoto Machida is an undefeated shotokan karate fighter with wins over Bonner, Penn, and Franklin. Recently he's started crosstraining in Muay-Thai, but his base is shotokan and he credits his wins to shotokan.
The current champ of K-1 is a Seidokaikan karate fighter; former champ Andy Hug was a Kyokushinkai.
Q: How many different styles of fighting have you trained in? Do you have any ranks? Who do you consider your teacher?
Bas: "Tae Kwon Do 2nd Degree, Kyokushin Karate 2nd Degree, Thai boxing yellow slip (just kidding), Kyokushin All round fighting 5th Degree"
"When I won my first amateur (MMA) fight, I was 16 years old and I beat a guy that was 25. I was only a Kyokushin karate fighter and the guy I fought was a boxer. At the time my ground skills were very poor, I didn’t know nothing on the ground.” -Georges Saint Pierre[9]
"St. Pierre won his fight by knockout, going low with several leg kicks and then going high with a kick to the head. To this day many fans and much of the media has him pegged as a wrestler, or a Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighter, but he still considers himself a karate stylist at heart.
There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then.
"Another victor for karate!" - Lyoto Machida
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k-1 fighter ray sefo gets KTFO by washed up boxer
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This will be my last post on this topic.
A kick is a kick. The principal is the same whether you take Muay-Thai or Tae Kwon Do.
A roundhouse works the same way, as does a front kick. The power comes from proper pivoting of the hips...same with punching.
(Something most of these wrestlers in the UFC can't do...but they got a good enough ground game to pull the win most of the time.
I've always said a strong wrestler is the most dangerous single-style opponent.)
These ring-legal techniques (front kick, roundhouse, etc...) are tought in all the popular stand-up styles. No one style can claim a roundhouse kick or a front kick.
Now why are Muay-Thai, kickboxers, and Full-contact Karate guys more succsesful in MMA then?
The reason is simple. The afformentioned styles get people prepared to be hit. You can train a random yuppie all you want, but if they've never been hit they are going to crumble fast. In Knockdown Karate or Full-contact they practice with no protection, only barring head punches to prevent broken faces. Muay-Thai use gloves but allow face strikes. Kickboxing is sport karate or a combination of Muay-Thai and karate in it's origins. Point-sparring guys like Tae Kwon Do and Shotokan could POTENTIALLY be very good if they're natural fighters and do some kickboxing training to get their conditioning up to par (see Machida). They are usually very precise with their strikes (it's the nature of point sparring.)
There is very little useless technique in karate. If you eliminate all the various throat strikes and and katas you have kickboxing which is sport-karate. Karate was developed under time of war with Japan in okinawa. It was life or death. That's the reason they spend time striking the throat, kicking the groing, headbutting, etc. It's essentially pancratium in it's purest form.
Kata is very important for developing technique, proper shifting of the hips to generate power, endurance, etc. Guys that practice kata with a good instructor hit hard and precise. The principal is the same as typing or hitting a bag. You develop muscle memory through repetitive movements, so that complicated strikes become automatic. It's the same as learning anything really.
In sports where strikes to the throat and groing ar prohibited, you may as well take kickboxing, because kickboxing = that much more time you can spend on the principal ring-combat attacks (front kick, round kick, etc.) However, an expert karate fighter has the advantage of a greater arsenal of attacks (side-kick, spinning back-kick axe kick, etc.) and usually more precision. It takes longer to become effective with though because it's more comprehensive. In other words it's not for everyone.
Nonetheless, many of the best MMA fighters have an extensive background in karate. Bas Rutten is a karate expert. He's 5th degree in Kyokushin karate. Chuck Liddel is a blackbelt in a Kempo style that emphasizes full-contact training in heavy protection. Hence, his "kempo" tat. GSP trained in full-contact karate since he was a child to an adult until his sensei died; winning his first mma match against a boxer with "karate alone" to quote him. Lyoto Machida is an undefeated shotokan karate fighter with wins over Bonner, Penn, and Franklin. Recently he's started crosstraining in Muay-Thai, but his base is shotokan and he credits his wins to shotokan.
The current champ of K-1 is a Seidokaikan karate fighter; former champ Andy Hug was a Kyokushinkai.
Q: How many different styles of fighting have you trained in? Do you have any ranks? Who do you consider your teacher?
Bas: "Tae Kwon Do 2nd Degree, Kyokushin Karate 2nd Degree, Thai boxing yellow slip (just kidding), Kyokushin All round fighting 5th Degree"
"When I won my first amateur (MMA) fight, I was 16 years old and I beat a guy that was 25. I was only a Kyokushin karate fighter and the guy I fought was a boxer. At the time my ground skills were very poor, I didn’t know nothing on the ground.” -Georges Saint Pierre[9]
"St. Pierre won his fight by knockout, going low with several leg kicks and then going high with a kick to the head. To this day many fans and much of the media has him pegged as a wrestler, or a Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighter, but he still considers himself a karate stylist at heart.
There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then.
"Another victor for karate!" - Lyoto Machida
Walter Godin, a fixture in the martial arts community in Hawaii up to his death started incorporating muay thai into his training. Godin's theories were honed while he served in the pen. A buddy of mine, Brandyn, was a third degree black belt under Godin. He know trains with Tommy Lam, another former kempo stylist who trains MUAY THAI exclusively. BTW, both of them fight in shooto in Japan. Where most of the fighters there are training more muay thai than Karate. The clinching techniques of muay thai complements greco techneique.
Are there a lot of techniques that could be streamlined? Of course. Does it mean it has no merit? Of course not. My point to the original post by RKBB, WHO ESPOUSED THAT KARATE WAS THE BE ALL END ALL OF STANDUP ARTS, is if you want proficiency in striking range for MMA: perhaps Muay Thai was the expedient way to go.
Truth be known, most folks would not like Muay Thai training. It is brutal, conditioning is paramount, and hard sparring is not for everyone. This is where Karate may offer something for practicioners who don't wisht to pursue combat sports as an advocation.
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Truth be known, most folks would not like Muay Thai training. It is brutal, conditioning is paramount, and hard sparring is not for everyone. This is where Karate may offer something for practicioners who don't wisht to pursue combat sports as an advocation.
Some Karate is as hard, if not harder. Using 'hardening' exercises, having that old sensei worship where they punish their students, and taking punches to the body full contact with no gloves.
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Some Karate is as hard, if not harder. Using 'hardening' exercises, having that old sensei worship where they punish their students, and taking punches to the body full contact with no gloves.
I doubt you can find a school like that anywhere here in the US. If so I would almost bet that their isnt even one in every state. So this example should be thrown out. Yet Muay Tai school are easily accesible and much more abundant.
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I doubt you can find a school like that anywhere here in the US. If so I would almost bet that their isnt even one in every state. So this example should be thrown out. Yet Muay Tai school are easily accesible and much more abundant.
its not about what is most accessable. my post is a response to the comment that muay thai is more brutal and karate training is weaker. this is not correct.
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Some Karate is as hard, if not harder. Using 'hardening' exercises, having that old sensei worship where they punish their students, and taking punches to the body full contact with no gloves.
Obviously you've never done Muay Thai..
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Obviously you've never done Muay Thai..
actually i have. for many years.
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its not about what is most accessable. my post is a response to the comment that muay thai is more brutal and karate training is weaker. this is not correct.
Muay Thai sparring is brutal. Constantly banged up, bruises everywhere, punches to the face....throws, dinged up tibialis anterior from checking kicks, wrecked necks from getting figure eights done to you out of the plumb.... This isn't even the conditioning.
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Muay Thai sparring is brutal. Constantly banged up, bruises everywhere, punches to the face....throws, dinged up tibialis anterior from checking kicks, wrecked necks from getting figure eights done to you out of the plumb.... This isn't even the conditioning.
it can be, it is what you make it. same with boxing or some styles of karate.
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actually i have. for many years.
Obviously not, since you have no idea how enduring the training is... warm ups alone put most people on their ass, and that's before any technique or sparring, I'm talking about just the cardio..
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Obviously not, since you have no idea how enduring the training is... warm ups alone put most people on their ass, and that's before any technique or sparring, I'm talking about just the cardio..
huh? you think the warm up in muay thai is more demanding than in other martial arts? ::)
i hope you're kidding, i have no patience to deal with some kinda troll on here the day of the ufc, i rather talk about that, please use appropriate smileys to avoid missunderstandings.
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huh? you think the warm up in muay thai is more demanding than in other martial arts? ::)
i hope you're kidding, i have no patience to deal with some kinda troll on here the day of the ufc, i rather talk about that, please use appropriate smileys to avoid missunderstandings.
LOL.. this coming from the kid that spends 19 hours online at Getbig and gets owned in every post!!? Ahahahaha...good one, go join a McDojo.. you just might learn something.
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LOL.. this coming from the kid that spends 19 hours online at Getbig and gets owned in every post!!? Ahahahaha...good one, go join a McDojo.. you just might learn something.
I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an attempt at being humerous, but apparantely you're serious.
So you stick by your opinion that Muay Thai, is tougher than other martial arts, because Muay Thai, have a tougher warm up than other martial arts.
Interesting. ::)
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I just wanted to make sure it wasn't an attempt at being humerous, but apparantely you're serious.
So you stick by your opinion that Muay Thai, is tougher than other martial arts, because Muay Thai, have a tougher warm up than other martial arts.
Interesting. ::)
Having studied Karate, Systema, Boxing and Muay Thai, I officially feel that MT has a more rigorous warm up session then I ever had in karate. In Karate I wasn't sweating buckets after 30 minutes of warming up with high energy intense cardio.. in fact it was pretty mild compared to MT where we keep going like machines for 30-45 minutes straight.. That's my personal opinion :)
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it can be, it is what you make it. same with boxing or some styles of karate.
You won't be spending 15-30 minutes a class doing kata's, or practicing against non resisting opponents. At both MT schools I trained at, it was 100 mph from the minute you started. You should know this, you had 19 fights.
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Having studied Karate, Systema, Boxing and Muay Thai, I officially feel that MT has a more rigorous warm up session then I ever had in karate. In Karate I wasn't sweating buckets after 30 minutes of warming up with high energy intense cardio.. in fact it was pretty mild compared to MT where we keep going like machines for 30-45 minutes straight.. That's my personal opinion :)
well make that 1 hour next time and you'll spend all energy before even the real training starts, sounds very smart ::)
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well make that 1 hour next time and you'll spend all energy before even the real training starts, sounds very smart ::)
In all honesty, have you ever been in a real Muay Thai class ?!? or was it Tae Bo or some other kind of Fitness Kickboxing designed for teenage girls ??..
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In all honesty, have you ever been in a real Muay Thai class ?!? or was it Tae Bo or some other kind of Fitness Kickboxing designed for teenage girls ??..
yes. and i never spent more than 15 minutes warming up. the key is the same as bodybuilding - warm up but not to the point where it will affect your training negatively.
hope this helps.
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Bluto is correct. It depends on the school how they train. I basically covered this in my response.
I've seen kickboxing schools that look more like an aerobics class but I don't count that as "real" kickboxing.
It's funny how many people bust a nut over Muay-Thai like it's the greatest standup.
Andy Hug beat the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys, and a karate guy holds the K-1 cup today!
Next thing they'll be saying Bruce Lee was the first Mixed Martial Artist hahaha.
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muay thai is the best
been training for about 3 years. keeps you in great shape.
love throwing knees and elbows.
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muay thai is the best
been training for about 3 years. keeps you in great shape.
love throwing knees and elbows.
Karate throws knees and elbows too. And the champion of standup fighting is a Seidokaikan fighter. :o
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Karate throws knees and elbows too. And the champion of standup fighting is a Seidokaikan fighter. :o
Karate's a joke, it's for little kids.. good luck using your karate in a street fight.. I bounce on the weekends, in 7 years of bouncing karate has done ZILCH for me, while muay thai has kept me from getting my face fucked up and jaw broken.
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Karate's a joke, it's for little kids.. good luck using your karate in a street fight.. I bounce on the weekends, in 7 years of bouncing karate has done ZILCH for me, while muay thai has kept me from getting my face fucked up and jaw broken.
The world champion of standup fighting is a Seidokaikan fighter! :o
You don't know anything about real karate. Sounds like some mom and pop Tae Kwon Do class.
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The world champion of standup fighting is a Seidokaikan fighter! :o
You don't know anything about real karate. Sounds like some mom and pop Tae Kwon Do class.
I know about enough fighting in 'street' situation and inside packed clubs to tell you that Karate in the *REAL* world is USELESS. It's great for exhibition's and tournaments, but in a real life fight situation it's not very useful, the strict stances make it too rigid to fight and defend against another trained fighter, esp. if the opponent has a wrestling or jiu jitsu background.
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"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."
"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."
The stances aren't strict in actual sparring and tournaments.
Jiu-Jitsu isn't the best in a brawl because cops or someone's "bros" can show up while you're rolling around.
The current world champ of standup fighting all styles is a Seidokaikan fighter.
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watch the latest silva vs franklin fight, great muay thai skills.
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watch the latest silva vs franklin fight, great muay thai skills.
Silva yes, Franklin no.
He's just not on Silva's level athletically. He's Dana's golden boy though.
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what about Tank Abbott? ;)
What dicipline is that?
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what about Tank Abbott? ;)
What dicipline is that?
Benching 600
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what about Tank Abbott? ;)
What dicipline is that?
Fat lazy drunk who landed some bombs against people who wouldn't even make dark matches now a days. TANK SUCKS AS MUCH AS KIMBO.... :o :o :o
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Fat lazy drunk who landed some bombs against people who wouldn't even make dark matches now a days. TANK SUCKS AS MUCH AS KIMBO.... :o :o :o
Nah Tank just got old. He was a top guy 10 plus years ago. He almost beat Don Frye. He was a force in a standup war circa 93
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Bluto is correct. It depends on the school how they train. I basically covered this in my response.
I've seen kickboxing schools that look more like an aerobics class but I don't count that as "real" kickboxing.
It's funny how many people bust a nut over Muay-Thai like it's the greatest standup.
Andy Hug beat the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys, and a karate guy holds the K-1 cup today!
Next thing they'll be saying Bruce Lee was the first Mixed Martial Artist hahaha.
You do realise that Andy Hug lost to Ernesto Hoost thrice, and Peter Aerts twice. And I know you will call them kickboxers, but most people know them as thai boxers.
The reason a karateka is the K1 champ is because under K1 rules, and K1 rules will not allow elbows to the head, no clinching/elbowing, or clinching/kneeing. If you do one, you can't do the other. Taking away some of the benefits limits the effectiveness of muay thai.
If you search youtube, you will find a fight between Changpuek Kiatsongrit versus Hug in kyoshukin rules. The first round, the lighter Kiatsongrit was killing Hug. He wanted to clinch, but was chastised by the ref. This is the same fighter who made Rick Roufus, and brother Duke become Thai fighters after he destroyed Rick in a kickboxing match.
You talk about Lyoto supplementing his karate with muay thai, why don't muay thai fighters supplement with karate? Anderson Silva got his black belt in TKD before starting muay thai, is he considered a TKD stylist. GSP, Bas, got started in kyoshukin, but all of them gravitated toward muay thai. WHY? I don't think GSP is training karate when he trains with his primary stand up coach Phil Nurse. Duke Roufus was an American kickboxer who now teaches Muay Thai under Master Toddy. Why? Xtreme Couture and all the camps listed above have Thai trainers, but no Karate, WHY?
Again, Karate does have it's merits, but please, if you will, address these questions. Anderson Silva's, Alan Belcher's Muay Thai looked pretty good tonight, didn't it?
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Nah Tank just got old. He was a top guy 10 plus years ago. He almost beat Don Frye. He was a force in a standup war circa 93
Please just don't say anything ridiculous like Tank in his prime would be a top ten fighter now... TANK SUCKS and ALWAYS HAS!
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Please just don't say anything ridiculous like Tank in his prime would be a top ten fighter now... TANK SUCKS and ALWAYS HAS!
Skill wise, 100% agreed.. he did have one hell of a right hand though... WOW
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tank would beat most people in a street fight
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You do realise that Andy Hug lost to Ernesto Hoost thrice, and Peter Aerts twice. And I know you will call them kickboxers, but most people know them as thai boxers.
The reason a karateka is the K1 champ is because under K1 rules, and K1 rules will not allow elbows to the head, no clinching/elbowing, or clinching/kneeing. If you do one, you can't do the other. Taking away some of the benefits limits the effectiveness of muay thai.
If you search youtube, you will find a fight between Changpuek Kiatsongrit versus Hug in kyoshukin rules. The first round, the lighter Kiatsongrit was killing Hug. He wanted to clinch, but was chastised by the ref. This is the same fighter who made Rick Roufus, and brother Duke become Thai fighters after he destroyed Rick in a kickboxing match.
You talk about Lyoto supplementing his karate with muay thai, why don't muay thai fighters supplement with karate? Anderson Silva got his black belt in TKD before starting muay thai, is he considered a TKD stylist. GSP, Bas, got started in kyoshukin, but all of them gravitated toward muay thai. WHY? I don't think GSP is training karate when he trains with his primary stand up coach Phil Nurse. Duke Roufus was an American kickboxer who now teaches Muay Thai under Master Toddy. Why? Xtreme Couture and all the camps listed above have Thai trainers, but no Karate, WHY?
Again, Karate does have it's merits, but please, if you will, address these questions. Anderson Silva's, Alan Belcher's Muay Thai looked pretty good tonight, didn't it?
I already answered all this in my long post. Shit, I'm going to start quoting myself.
There would be no point in Bas continuing to train karate because he's already and expert, and the additional moves they teach in karate aren't ring-legal. He already learned how to do a front kick and a roundhouse kick expertly in karate
before he ever started Muay-Thai.
How many katas and bareknuckle matches has he already been through in knockdown karate? Thousands.
It would be a waste of time to continue practicing this
He's been there done that, and he'll still use it in a street fight. He's an expert in karate.
Muay-Thai means more time he can train for the ring-legal strikes. In a recent interview he said he still does katas though.
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j51/realkarateblackbelt/280px-RuttenKosaka-1.jpg)
The rest of your post is speculation. True Muay-Thai guys train more in the clinch, but they don't have Andy's signature axe kick, spinning back kicks, side kicks, etc. All those kicks take real training to use effectively,
so you won't so it from the sloppy hayseeds Dana promotes on the UFC, cept from GSP.
In fact, I rarely see a decend front or roundhouse kick from UFC fighters, save GSP and thats from training in Karate 10 + years.
Clinching is grappling. All things being equal, size and strength, I believe the very best karate guy will beat the very best Muay-Thai guy. Like I said though, Karate has all the techniques of Muay-Thai and more, thus it takes longer to become good at it. What opponent are Muay Thai guys facing when they punch a bag? Is that a resisting opponent?
This thread is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...
Well guess what, Muay-Thai vs. Karate already happened in 1963 and the Karate guys won 2 - 1 in Lumpinee stadium, Thailand
long before people started crosstraining I might add.
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Someone needs to find that youtube video where a Muay Thai fighter absolutely destroys a Tae Kwon Do (similar to Karate) fighter in the ring... the TKD guys moves have absolutely no effect on the MT fighter.
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Someone needs to find that youtube video where a Muay Thai fighter absolutely destroys a Tae Kwon Do (similar to Karate) fighter in the ring... the TKD guys moves have absolutely no effect on the MT fighter.
Here you are. Same guy that lost here to the kyokushin (full-contact) guy.
Tae Kwon Do isn't that similar because they don't do nearly as much full-contact training if any as they do in knockdown karate.
It might be different in Korea but I don't know. A Tae Kwon Do guy that cross trains in kickboxing could be very good. The arsenal of kicks are the same as all the principal standup styles. It's the conditioning that puts TKD guys behind other Karate and Muay-Thai.
Here's an example of a TKD guy that's "ring-ready"
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Please just don't say anything ridiculous like Tank in his prime would be a top ten fighter now... TANK SUCKS and ALWAYS HAS!
That's proof (along with my Sapp beating Hoost twice thread) that strength is more important than training in fighting.
Tank has knocked out countless trained fighters, and almost knocked out Don Frye. Imagine how bad he would be if he trained hard and developed cardio and serious ground skills. Imagine how bad Sapp would be! Shit, Sapp already beat former k-1 champion and Muay-Thai fighter Ernesto Hoost with "NFL" as his fighting style.
A tall strongman competitor that trains in wrestling and kyokushin or muay-thai would probably be the toughest fighter in the world.
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actually i have. for many years.
Wow, your nose is growing with every post.
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Dude, it aint 1963.
Secondly, why not answer my questions?
Which prominent MMA fightcamp doesn't have a thai coach, and which ones bring in Karate insructors to cross train? Why has sooo many Karatekas left karate, and train almost exclusively in muay thai? (I know the answer as does everyone else who frequents here, I just wanna see if you'll man up and answer the question) At times like this, I suspect you and Bluto are one and the same.
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Wow, your nose is growing with every post.
LOL, totally agreed!
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Dude, it aint 1963.
Secondly, why not answer my questions?
Which prominent MMA fightcamp doesn't have a thai coach, and which ones bring in Karate insructors to cross train? Why has sooo many Karatekas left karate, and train almost exclusively in muay thai? (I know the answer as does everyone else who frequents here, I just wanna see if you'll man up and answer the question) At times like this, I suspect you and Bluto are one and the same.
I already answered your questions at least twice now, in this thread alone. And no, I'm not Bluto.
I also posted links to legit karate fighters beating legit kickboxers and muay-thai guys.
The champion of standup fighting is a seidokaikan fighter. Clinching is grappling.
I also answered your thread, and I'm not sure what the date has to do with it.
This thread is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...
Well guess what, Muay-Thai vs. Karate already happened in 1963 and the Karate guys won 2 - 1 in Lumpinee stadium, Thailand
long before people started crosstraining I might add.
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A god amongst mere mortals!!!! Probably was the pound for pound greatest standup fighter ever.
They don't wear sissy gloves in Karate and they break bricks with their bare hands!
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This is what real Japanese karate is about...100 man fights, bareknuckle combat, spinning back kicks, bullfighting,
and shattering thick ice and baseball bats with the unprotected hand or foot.
Thai fighters usually punch a bag for 5 hours, and we all know a bag doesn't hit back.
Full-contact karate is far tougher than muay-thai training.
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This is what real Japanese karate is about...100 man fights, bareknuckle combat, spinning back kicks, bullfighting,
and shattering thick ice and baseball bats with the unprotected hand or foot.
Thai fighters usually punch a bag for 5 hours, and we all know a bag doesn't hit back.
Full-contact karate is far tougher than muay-thai training.
You're beyond delusional, karate is a joke.. along with TKD, it's great for kids to learn discipline and channel their anger in their teenage years , but that's about it.. why don't you try a few MT sessions and then we'll see what tune you'll be singing... oh and I'm not talking about some Tae Bo aerobic kickboxing bullshit, I mean *REAL* MT.
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This is what real Japanese karate is about...100 man fights, bareknuckle combat, spinning back kicks, bullfighting,
and shattering thick ice and baseball bats with the unprotected hand or foot.
Thai fighters usually punch a bag for 5 hours, and we all know a bag doesn't hit back.
Full-contact karate is far tougher than muay-thai training.
I am glad you won't answer a direct question. It seems getting a third degree clouds your sense of reason, and you won't man up to certain truths. Fair enough. Let me say this, Karate is a good art, that a lot of us, myself included got our start in. It HAS produced SOME fine fighting champions. That being said, for the sake of answering a question you refuse to accept exists, I will do it for you. They aren't rushing out to do Karate BECAUSE when it was thrown into the laboratory of fighting that was previously NHB, and has since evolved into MMA, Karate has proven to be ineffecitve in preparing fighters to FIGHT. How many Sabaki challenge winners have won a major MMA title? (Not K1, but MMA, because we are on an MMA board) We know how many camps (all of them) think of Muay Thai, all camps have a dedicated Thai trainer. How many have a dedicated Karate trainer? ANSWER, NONE. End of debate.
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You're beyond delusional, karate is a joke.. along with TKD, it's great for kids to learn discipline and channel their anger in their teenage years , but that's about it.. why don't you try a few MT sessions and then we'll see what tune you'll be singing... oh and I'm not talking about some Tae Bo aerobic kickboxing bullshit, I mean *REAL* MT.
Hmmm. So you know more about fighting than world champions Andy Hug and Semmy Schilt? Interesting.
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I am glad you won't answer a direct question. It seems getting a third degree clouds your sense of reason, and you won't man up to certain truths. Fair enough.
I already answered your questions a million times. You just aren't getting the answers you wanted. Sorry to shatter your belief that Mauy-Thai is the greatest standup. It's not.
Let me say this, Karate is a good art, that a lot of us, myself included got our start in. It HAS produced SOME fine fighting champions.
It's produced many, many champions, including the current champion of k-1 now. It seems that when the the Muay-Thai guys leave Thailand and stop fighting other Muay-Thai fighters they lose to the hardcore karate fighters.
That being said, for the sake of answering a question you refuse to accept exists, I will do it for you. They aren't rushing out to do Karate BECAUSE when it was thrown into the laboratory of fighting that was previously NHB, and has since evolved into MMA, Karate has proven to be ineffecitve in preparing fighters to FIGHT.
Bas Rutten trained in karate all his life, as did GSP, as did Hug, Machida, et al. How much more training in karate do they need?
These guys are already experts. Been there, done that with you.
How many Sabaki challenge winners have won a major MMA title? (Not K1, but MMA, because we are on an MMA board) We know how many camps (all of them) think of Muay Thai, all camps have a dedicated Thai trainer. How many have a dedicated Karate trainer? ANSWER, NONE. End of debate.
Oh, so it's about MMA now. Funny that when the facts prove you to be wrong in all your assertions, you go back on your original idea. The thread, need I remind you, is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...so now you've changed it to Karate and MMA since I already proved Muay-Thai is inferior to hardcore karate. But yes, many karate fighters use the style as their standup and continue to win.
Keith Hackney beat a 600 pound sumo wrestler with his Kempo karate. Is that proof Karate is effective vs. larger opponents? ???
Are Muay-Thai fighters fighting a resisting opponent when they punch a bag? No.
Hardcore Karate training is far tougher than Muay-Thai, and the technique is also superior.
These guys smash bricks with their bare fist and engage in bare-knuckled fist-fights with up to 100 people in a day.
The strikes include everything in Muay-Thai and much more.
Even Tae Kwon Do is superior to Muay-Thai technique-wise, but they don't do good because they aren't conditioned to take punches usually. This is not so with hardcore karate however.
So to answer the original idea of this thread (started by you):
This thread is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...
Well guess what, Muay-Thai vs. Karate already happened in 1963 and the Karate guys won 2 - 1 in Lumpinee stadium, Thailand
long before people started crosstraining I might add.
End of debate.
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Who gives a fuck? Muay-Thai/ Karate/ Kempo/ TKD/ Savate/ any other BS Martial Arts...its about MMA now not just one specific style!
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I already answered your questions a million times. You just aren't getting the answers you wanted. Sorry to shatter your belief that Mauy-Thai is the greatest standup. It's not.
It's produced many, many champions, including the current champion of k-1 now. It seems that when the the Muay-Thai guys leave Thailand and stop fighting other Muay-Thai fighters they lose to the hardcore karate fighters.
Bas Rutten trained in karate all his life, as did GSP, as did Hug, Machida, et al. How much more training in karate do they need?
These guys are already experts. Been there, done that with you.
Oh, so it's about MMA now. Funny that when the facts prove you to be wrong in all your assertions, you go back on your original idea. The thread, need I remind you, is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...so now you've changed it to Karate and MMA since I already proved Muay-Thai is inferior to hardcore karate. But yes, many karate fighters use the style as their standup and continue to win.
Keith Hackney beat a 600 pound sumo wrestler with his Kempo karate. Is that proof Karate is effective vs. larger opponents? ???
Are Muay-Thai fighters fighting a resisting opponent when they punch a bag? No.
Hardcore Karate training is far tougher than Muay-Thai, and the technique is also superior.
These guys smash bricks with their bare fist and engage in bare-knuckled fist-fights with up to 100 people in a day.
The strikes include everything in Muay-Thai and much more.
Even Tae Kwon Do is superior to Muay-Thai technique-wise, but they don't do good because they aren't conditioned to take punches usually. This is not so with hardcore karate however.
So to answer the original idea of this thread (started by you):
This thread is called Muay-Thai vs. Karate...
Well guess what, Muay-Thai vs. Karate already happened in 1963 and the Karate guys won 2 - 1 in Lumpinee stadium, Thailand
long before people started crosstraining I might add.
End of debate.
So I GUESS PBF, Hatton, Talor Pavlik no longer need to train boxing anymore, they've done it all their lives? Your a clown. Those guys still train to stay at the top of their game. Their game is boxing. THIS IS AN MMA FORUM. You came on here extolling that karate is teh best, and everyone should ask you questions because you are a "realkarateblackbelt." You even showed a copy of your mcdojo rank to give you a sense of superiortiy.
Bas no longer trains karate, because most elements don't facilitate what fighting NHB/MMA. Neither does GSP. Why is Machida "cross training" in muay thai at blackhouse if karate has all the answers? Name ONE TOP fight club that has a karate teacher/trainer?
Guess what, you won't answer any of these, because you can't. Realkaratefraud. This from a former karateka.
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WINNER.....AMERICANBULLD OG!!
Even i got a blackbelt from a McDojo..you can ask me questions too then!
Kiiiya!! Osu!
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"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."
"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."
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So I GUESS PBF, Hatton, Talor Pavlik no longer need to train boxing anymore, they've done it all their lives? Your a clown. Those guys still train to stay at the top of their game. Their game is boxing. THIS IS AN MMA FORUM. You came on here extolling that karate is teh best, and everyone should ask you questions because you are a "realkarateblackbelt." You even showed a copy of your mcdojo rank to give you a sense of superiortiy.
Bas no longer trains karate, because most elements don't facilitate what fighting NHB/MMA. Neither does GSP. Why is Machida "cross training" in muay thai at blackhouse if karate has all the answers? Name ONE TOP fight club that has a karate teacher/trainer?
Guess what, you won't answer any of these, because you can't. Realkaratefraud. This from a former karateka.
He's still training the same techniques he learned a long time ago in Karate by taking Muay-Thai.
Bas Rutten said he still does katas in a recent interview, so you're wrong again...as usual
Machida started cross training Muay-Thai long after he was winning mma fights with karate. ::)
Karate is superior to Muay-Thai training-wise and technique-wise.
The K-1 champ is a karate fighter.
"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."
"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."
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He's still training the same techniques he learned a long time ago in Karate by taking Muay-Thai.
Bas Rutten said he still does katas in a recent interview, so you're wrong again...as usual
Machida started cross training Muay-Thai long after he was winning mma fights with karate. ::)
Karate is superior to Muay-Thai training-wise and technique-wise.
The K-1 champ is a karate fighter.
"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."
"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."
Thats a BOLD statement...one I disagree with. Go back and watch UFC 1-3 and ALL the Karate fighters got FUCKED UP!
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Buakaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8v9UKw-BUk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8v9UKw-BUk)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBExHg5A-Bw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBExHg5A-Bw)
(M&M sucks)
I'll always love standup and muay thai.
One thing that I would like to happen is that muay thai/kickboxing would become bigger in north america.
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Kickboxing was pretty big back in the 80's and early 90's. Not sure what happened to it though. I love me some Muay Thai!
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Man I bet Anderson Silva is glad he got himself a TKD blackbelt, he surely put his TKD skills on display against Franklin. (For the sarcasm deficit detecting people, this is levity) I bet he surely trains a lot of TKD today, about as much as Bas, GSP, Chuck train karate. (None, again for the ddt people) How many karate instructors at major MMA schools/academy/fight teams again? 0!
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Thats a BOLD statement...one I disagree with. Go back and watch UFC 1-3 and ALL the Karate fighters got FUCKED UP!
No they didn't. That's absolutely wrong. Why do you people comment on things you don't know about.
You already said in another thread you started watching MMA way after UFC 1. ::)
200 pound Kempo Karate practitioner Keith Hackney beating 600 pound Sumo wrestler IN UFC 1 !!!!
Do you think Keith would have won this match if he only practiced Brasilian Jiu Jitsu instead of Kempo? Hahaha. I'd like to see him put an armlock or a rear-naked choke on this guy lmao. They should have thrown Gracie in there with him. But oh yes, I forgot...
The Gracies' ran UFC 1-3? to promote their style. Brutal corruption.
Also in UFC 1 (or 2?), Gerard Gordeau, a Kyokushin and Savate fighter, beats a 400 pound guy bare-knuckle.
Proof again that karate is as effective as Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu or better in overcoming larger opponents.
Karate represented big time in the early UFCs, and it continues to represent today in the UFC.
GSP considers himself a karate fighter primarily, Chuck's background is primarily in Kempo, and Bas Rutten has an extensive Karate background. What you don't see today, now that the Gracies are out of the background as far as running things, is dominance by BJJ. The dominant fighters today are strikers that learn how to avoid going to the ground, and wrestlers. It's been that way since Ken Shamrock sent Gracie into retirement.
Of course Bulldog will chime in and say, "well Randy does BJJ" but it's not his forte. Just like Muay-Thai is not the basis of GSP's style even though he trains in it. Bulldog thinks that as soon as someone does BJJ or MT, even if it's for a month they suddenly become super-powered fighters even though it's a small part of their overall training. He has a hard-on for MT, even though the facts show it to be not as tough or comprehensive as karate. And wrestler Matt Hughes made BJJ expert Gracie look like an ameteur. Where are all the BJJ champs today?
Also, even in Thailand, top Thai-boxers, (just like Karate guys in K-1) cross train in boxing because MT hands aren't sufficient to compete at that level.
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Man I bet Anderson Silva is glad he got himself a TKD blackbelt, he surely put his TKD skills on display against Franklin. (For the sarcasm deficit detecting people, this is levity) I bet he surely trains a lot of TKD today, about as much as Bas, GSP, Chuck train karate. (None, again for the ddt people) How many karate instructors at major MMA schools/academy/fight teams again? 0!
As much as I hate to agree with you, I do! :-\
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"There were "Karate vs. Muay Thai fights" February 12, 1963. The 3 karate fighters from Oyama dojo (Kyokushin later) went to the Lumpinee Boxing Stadium in Thailand, and fought against 3 Muay Thai fighters. The 3 karate fighters' names are Tadashi Nakamura, Kenji Kurosaki and Akio Fujihira (as known as Noboru Osawa). Japan won by 2-1 then."
"Beating the hell out of the Muay-Thai guys since 1963."
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No they didn't. That's absolutely wrong. Why do you people comment on things you don't know about.
You already said in another thread you started watching MMA way after UFC 1. ::)
200 pound Kempo Karate practitioner Keith Hackney beating 600 pound Sumo wrestler IN UFC 1 !!!!
Do you think Keith would have won this match if he only practiced Brasilian Jiu Jitsu instead of Kempo? Hahaha. I'd like to see him put an armlock or a rear-naked choke on this guy lmao. They should have thrown Gracie in there with him. But oh yes, I forgot...
The Gracies' ran UFC 1-3? to promote their style. Brutal corruption.
Also in UFC 1 (or 2?), Gerard Gordeau, a Kyokushin and Savate fighter, beats a 400 pound guy bare-knuckle.
Proof again that karate is as effective as Brasilian Jiu-Jitsu or better in overcoming larger opponents.
Karate represented big time in the early UFCs, and it continues to represent today in the UFC.
GSP considers himself a karate fighter primarily, Chuck's background is primarily in Kempo, and Bas Rutten has an extensive Karate background. What you don't see today, now that the Gracies are out of the background as far as running things, is dominance by BJJ. The dominant fighters today are strikers that learn how to avoid going to the ground, and wrestlers. It's been that way since Ken Shamrock sent Gracie into retirement.
Of course Bulldog will chime in and say, "well Randy does BJJ" but it's not his forte. Just like Muay-Thai is not the basis of GSP's style even though he trains in it. Bulldog thinks that as soon as someone does BJJ or MT, even if it's for a month they suddenly become super-powered fighters even though it's a small part of their overall training. He has a hard-on for MT, even though the facts show it to be not as tough or comprehensive as karate. And wrestler Matt Hughes made BJJ expert Gracie look like an ameteur. Where are all the BJJ champs today?
Also, even in Thailand, top Thai-boxers, (just like Karate guys in K-1) cross train in boxing because MT hands aren't sufficient to compete at that level.
Just because I didnt start watching UFC at UFC 1 doesnt mean I havent seen it genius.
Second, Keith Hackney and Emanuel Yarborough (600lb Sumo) was in UFC 3.
Third, I do agree with the corruption of MMA back in the day, Its a well know fact that many fights were fixed.
Fourth, Royce beat many larger opponents than him ( Art Jimmerson, Gerrard Gordeau, Ichihara, Smith, Kimo) so thats not a valid argument.
Lastly, Just because Chuck and GSP came up in Karate it doesnt mean that they are Karate fighters. They are both primarily strikers, but in no way are they "karate" fighters.
Dude its MMA, you have to have a well rounded game to even step in the cage anymore, why do you keep arguing that Karate if the best technique? Chill!
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An the Shamrock Gracie fight was a DRAW after like a half hour or some shit. How is that even decisive? C'mon now. And Shamrock isnt a Karate fighter, he started out as a shootfighter.