Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: The Coach on October 13, 2007, 09:21:07 AM
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This is from another thread but should be seriously discussed.............
"How many thread have there been that were similar to this? Hundreds? Maybe thousands? I'm not talking about just on this forum, but others. Yet the judges won't pay attention and I know for a fact that they get on not only here, but others. What I see is that the majority and concensus of the bodybuilding world are just sick and tired of seeing big, bloated, unsymmetrical, lack of work ethic, unconditioned (compared to yester year) "bodybuilders".
Not one post have I seen that anyone came on to defend todays pro's.......why? Because about 90% realize that they don't compare to the BBer's in this thread, Milos hasn't defended or any other current pro that either comes on here or posts on here or any other board for that matter..........it's pathetic that the judges, sponsors, current competitors can't defend what they ultimately screwed up......the industry"
Judges...are you freaking blind at the FACT that the fans and BBing historians are just sick of your crap and favoritism??
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The judges can ONLY judge what is on front of them ! period .
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This is from another thread but should be seriously discussed.............
"How many thread have there been that were similar to this? Hundreds? Maybe thousands? I'm not talking about just on this forum, but others. Yet the judges won't pay attention and I know for a fact that they get on not only here, but others. What I see is that the majority and concensus of the bodybuilding world are just sick and tired of seeing big, bloated, unsymmetrical, lack of work ethic, unconditioned (compared to yester year) "bodybuilders".
Not one post have I seen that anyone came on to defend todays pro's.......why? Because about 90% realize that they don't compare to the BBer's in this thread, Milos hasn't defended or any other current pro that either comes on here or posts on here or any other board for that matter..........it's pathetic that the judges, sponsors, current competitors can't defend what they ultimately screwed up......the industry"
Judges...are you freaking blind at the FACT that the fans and BBing historians are just sick of your crap and favoritism??
r u saying judges have no ethics?
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I don't think you guys should worry too much. Word out on the street is that people are starting back away from GH usage. There is also a younger generation coming into the sport. It will eventually change but it will take years.
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you change things by just doing it for God's sake, stop giving Branch Warren a win when he looks like shit. Stop giving the olympia away based on bodyweight or who's the "biggest", go back to what was popular back when BB was actually kinda popular with te public circa 1988-1992...
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you change things by just doing it for God's sake, stop giving Branch Warren a win when he looks like shit.
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The judges can ONLY judge what is on front of them ! period .
The head judges for every pro bb contest should be selected by the athlets and judg panel should be international, the way is at the amator IFBB Mr.Univers.
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The head judges for every pro bb contest should be selected by the athlets and judg panel should be international, the way is at the amator IFBB Mr.Univers.
And if any of the judges doing any cheating should be suspended and find $$$.
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i'm not sure what the point is in this thread.
if it relates to jay beating wolf then agreed, but that has nothing to do with physique aesthetics as such and everything to do with who was the better bber on the night.
people want to see freaks when they open a mag or go to a show. that is why the fat contracts go to the freaks like ronnie (past tense) and the poor little guys are left to discuss things.
thus it has always been ie i'm sure frank zane complained about this very thing while people knocked him over trying to get a look at the freaks of the time, arnold, sergio, ferrigno, platz...
gh has been used since the 80s at least so i don't think that is the problem and, let's face it, if you put a 70s bber (besides arnold due to fame factor) up on stage at the 2003 olympia he would heckled back off the stage aand taken to the emergency room at a mental hospital.
bodybuilding is a sport for freaks who want to push the envelope.
end of discussion.
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It's just a sad state of things : when u have people mixed with money and endorsing athletes...it's a tough mix. Do u guys forget that judges eat from " the industry " also ?
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i'm not sure what the point is in this thread.
if it relates to jay beating wolf then agreed, but that has nothing to do with physique aesthetics as such and everything to do with who was the better bber on the night.
people want to see freaks when they open a mag or go to a show. that is why the fat contracts go to the freaks like ronnie (past tense) and the poor little guys are left to discuss things.
thus it has always been ie i'm sure frank zane complained about this very thing while people knocked him over trying to get a look at the freaks of the time, arnold, sergio, ferrigno, platz...
gh has been used since the 80s at least so i don't think that is the problem and, let's face it, if you put a 70s bber (besides arnold due to fame factor) up on stage at the 2003 olympia he would heckled back off the stage aand taken to the emergency room at a mental hospital.
bodybuilding is a sport for freaks who want to push the envelope.
end of discussion.
You're not sure what the point of the thread is????
This has NOTHING to do with out come of the Olympia, I'm pretty sure 95% of the BBing world figured out it was flat out fixed. You said people want to see freaks when they open a magazine or go to a show, I say that's bullshit simple because of the input people have on here and other boards (it has a bigger infulence than you might think) again, most are sick of the bloated, unaesthetic physiques that are presented today. There's too many polls out there that PROVE that people would rather see the 'old school' physique that todays.....besides, it's much harder to attain the old school conditioning than it is now.
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The judges can ONLY judge what is on front of them ! period .
No no no.....the judges are the ones who set the standard....the onus is on them!
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No no no.....the judges are the ones who set the standard....the onus is on them!
exactly...but they're all high and mighty and know what's best for the "sport" remember when steve W.-don't know how to spell his last name-got up and yelled back at the fans for booing at the NOC a few years ago...that speaks volumes.
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You're not sure what the point of the thread is????
This has NOTHING to do with out come of the Olympia, I'm pretty sure 95% of the BBing world figured out it was flat out fixed. You said people want to see freaks when they open a magazine or go to a show, I say that's bullshit simple because of the input people have on here and other boards (it has a bigger infulence than you might think) again, most are sick of the bloated, unaesthetic physiques that are presented today. There's too many polls out there that PROVE that people would rather see the 'old school' physique that todays.....besides, it's much harder to attain the old school conditioning than it is now.
you're probably right about most people but the hardcore nuts that shell out the money want to see the prime colemans and dillets of the word.
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No no no.....the judges are the ones who set the standard....the onus is on them!
No they don't set the standard they have criteria to follow which includes muscular bulk , muscle density , balanced development , conditioning , posing & presentation and its usually who meets the criteria the best wins the contest as of late its been the biggest and who had the best conditioning at that weight and everything else follows
they could start by penalizing guys with bloated guts and set a precedent but that depends on how well they hold it in , see Cutler who has an obvious gut but manages to keep it under control , the trend has move onto size and thats why Ronnie won thats why Jay won its a prerequisite in this day and age and the onset GH IG1 and Isulin guys are getting a lot bigger but their conditioning and balance are going to hell for it
I've been bitching about this for years now but in the end size rules the day
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how to eat fried shrimp
step 1
pick up
step 2
pull off tail
step 3
place in mouth
step 4
chew the shrimp until able to swallow
step 5
swallow
step 6
drink(your choice of beverage)
step 7
repeat
i hope i have shed some light on this groundbreaking issue,if not feel free to PM me ;D
bench
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No they don't set the standard they have criteria to follow which includes muscular bulk , muscle density , balanced development , conditioning , posing & presentation and its usually who meets the criteria the best wins the contest as of late its been the biggest and who had the best conditioning at that weight and everything else follows
they could start by penalizing guys with bloated guts and set a precedent but that depends on how well they hold it in , see Cutler who has an obvious gut but manages to keep it under control , the trend has move onto size and thats why Ronnie won thats why Jay won its a prerequisite in this day and age and the onset GH IG1 and Isulin guys are getting a lot bigger but their conditioning and balance are going to hell for it
I've been bitching about this for years now but in the end size rules the day
No, ND you're wrong on this one, what you stated that they judges are supposed to do is correct, what they do is another thing. Jay Cutler looks the way he does right now because the judges "told" him he had to look like that to win the olympia, same with alot of the guys who's bodies have changed over the years-Branch, DJ, Ronnie etc.
Jay did exactly what the judges wanted him to do to have him win, they could easily make a statement and have a guy like Wolf step up and be the standard and the whole sport would follow the leader, they are the key but until they change the way they do things the "sport" will never change.
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No, ND you're wrong on this one, what you stated that they judges are supposed to do is correct, what they do is another thing. Jay Cutler looks the way he does right now because the judges "told" him he had to look like that to win the olympia, same with alot of the guys who's bodies have changed over the years-Branch, DJ, Ronnie etc.
Jay did exactly what the judges wanted him to do to have him win, they could easily make a statement and have a guy like Wolf step up and be the standard and the whole sport would follow the leader, they are the key but until they change the way they do things the "sport" will never change.
You're right because I mean there was NO way Jay was beating Ronnie if he wasn't on par size wise ! but its not size alone if that was the case Art Atwood and Alex Fedrov would be Mr Olympia its still the combo of size , conditioning and to a lesser extent balance & posing etc
And the case for a ' new ' movement would better suited for Dexter Jackson I mean he's symmetrical , has enough size , great conditioning but again mass rules the day !
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you're probably right about most people but the hardcore nuts that shell out the money want to see the prime colemans and dillets of the word.
Dillet circa 96-98 would be a welcome change on a pro stage now. Big and freaky, yes, but still had a fantastic taper and had good balance between mass and aesthetics. Just couldn't pose worth a shit.
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No they don't set the standard they have criteria to follow which includes muscular bulk , muscle density , balanced development , conditioning , posing & presentation and its usually who meets the criteria the best wins the contest as of late its been the biggest and who had the best conditioning at that weight and everything else follows
they could start by penalizing guys with bloated guts and set a precedent but that depends on how well they hold it in , see Cutler who has an obvious gut but manages to keep it under control , the trend has move onto size and thats why Ronnie won thats why Jay won its a prerequisite in this day and age and the onset GH IG1 and Isulin guys are getting a lot bigger but their conditioning and balance are going to hell for it
I've been bitching about this for years now but in the end size rules the day
The criteria is clear on judging standards (you forgot SYMMETRY) yet they are not followed. If you were to take an old school ripped physique with decent size and symmetry and put him against the bigger less conditioned BBers with less or very little symmetry, who do think the judges would give too?
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This would stand to reason that Troy Alves would sell tickets to shows right?
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This would stand to reason that Troy Alves would sell tickets to shows right?
Explain please.
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The criteria is clear on judging standards (you forgot SYMMETRY) yet they are not followed. If you were to take an old school ripped physique with decent size and symmetry and put him against the bigger less conditioned BBers with less or very little symmetry, who do think the judges would give too?
how are you going to have judges that are ethical let alone know physiology
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how are you going to have judges that are ethical let alone know physiology
They should know what a well conditioned balanced physique looks like!
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Explain please.
His type of physique is old school. Are you saying that is what people want to see?
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They should know what a well conditioned balanced physique looks like!
ok, now the tough part....corruption, endorsements etc
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ok, now the tough part....corruption, endorsements etc
Thats where the feds comes in!
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His type of physique is old school. Are you saying that is what people want to see?
Yes....how many people complained about his placing in his last show?
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The judges innocently believe that they "know who the fans want" to see as the champ.... And as a result we're seeing placings that we don't necassarily agree with 'ala Wolf winning the bb.com fans choice but not being in contention for the O.
I would wager a bet that they the judges think that they are trying to move bb forward, yet what the fan and joe public want to see is it not get too extreme (as it has since Dorian and Ronnie's reigns).
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the judges are too associated with sponsors and endorsers for this sport to become serious. this has always been the Weider issue
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the judges are too associated with sponsors and endorsers for this sport to become serious. this has always been the Weider issue
I agree.....thats why I think there should be an investigation!
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I agree.....thats why I think there should be an investigation!
it's not in the IFBB interests to go legitimate, that would mean strict standards and consistant applicability. not shawning favoritism and backroom deals. ;)
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it's not in the IFBB interests to go legitimate, that would mean strict standards and consistant applicability. not shawning favoritism and backroom deals. ;)
Haha, agreed again, force them to be legit. BTW, I have this feeling no matter how good of size and conditioning I will have coming into this show and I look like I deserve to win.......I won't :-\ Being outspoken isn't a plus in BBing.
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The criteria is clear on judging standards (you forgot SYMMETRY) yet they are not followed. If you were to take an old school ripped physique with decent size and symmetry and put him against the bigger less conditioned BBers with less or very little symmetry, who do think the judges would give too?
No I didn't forget symmetry and all rounds are physique rounds meaning symmetry is NOT judged as a separate and distinct element which is why guys like Yates could beat guys like Shawn Ray in the symmetry round , they look at all the criteria in all the rounds , the same goes with the other rounds
If you were to take an old school ripped physique with decent size and symmetry and put him against the bigger less conditioned BBers with less or very little symmetry, who do think the judges would give too?
And you have that senario today with Dexter Jackson and who do they give it to? lets say Dexter Jackson was 260 pounds with the same conditioning he's beat Cutler in moments ! he's lacking in muscular bulk despite showing advantages in ' symmetry ' and in conditioning , he's like Ray was to Yates and Labrada was to Haney
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Haha, agreed again, force them to be legit. BTW, I have this feeling no matter how good of size and conditioning I will have coming into this show and I look like I deserve to win.......I won't :-\ Being outspoken isn't a plus in BBing.
that's the narrowness of club style events and keeping pro bodybuilding a boutique endeavor. there are the house favored and the uncontrollable contenders
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They should know what a well conditioned balanced physique looks like!
You think Wolf is well balanced? he's not he has a pleasing physique and great symmetry ( well at least part of it ) his conditioning was good but not as great as Dexters .
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Wolf was nowhere near as hard as dexter.
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Wolf was nowhere near as hard as dexter.
He wasn't ! he had very good condition again the victim of peaking to many times on the year !
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Pros today are too caught up in going up in weight. It seems that they're always saying "ill be ten pounds heavier"
They should be like Arnold and focus on weakpoints....
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No I didn't forget symmetry and all rounds are physique rounds meaning symmetry is NOT judged as a separate and distinct element which is why guys like Yates could beat guys like Shawn Ray in the symmetry round , they look at all the criteria in all the rounds , the same goes with the other rounds
And you have that senario today with Dexter Jackson and who do they give it to? lets say Dexter Jackson was 260 pounds with the same conditioning he's beat Cutler in moments ! he's lacking in muscular bulk despite showing advantages in ' symmetry ' and in conditioning , he's like Ray was to Yates and Labrada was to Haney
I HAD Dexter winning and so did the original scorecard right before the final placings at the finals.
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You think Wolf is well balanced? he's not he has a pleasing physique and great symmetry ( well at least part of it ) his conditioning was good but not as great as Dexters .
Again, I had Dexter winning, Wolf was not nearly as conditioned or balanced as Dexter, but better conditioned and balanced than Victor. Martinez was ginin another gift.
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I HAD Dexter winning and so did the original scorecard right before the final placings at the finals.
The original score card did NOT have Dex winning ! where did you get that from? 2007 Mr Olympia was a two man contest Jay & Vic it could have went to Vic and I wouldn't have batted an eyelash , Jay was lucky to win no doubts about it Dex wasn't beating them
now you could make a case for the type of physique that Dex displayed to be the ideal for the Mr Olympia but based on the criteria they go by he wasn't winning.
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Pros today are too caught up in going up in weight. It seems that they're always saying "ill be ten pounds heavier"
They should be like Arnold and focus on weakpoints....
Yep, i agree. Being bigger doesn't make your weakpoints better, same with insulin, it won't help wek bodyparts.
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Again, I had Dexter winning, Wolf was not nearly as conditioned or balanced as Dexter, but better conditioned and balanced than Victor. Martinez was ginin another gift.
You know if Dexter won I think it would be better for the sport I think he clearly looks better than Cutler & Victor but he's not going to win by the criteria before him , like Shawn Ray the time of a close to 200 pound Mr Olympia ended with Samir Bannout , but I understand your point.
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The original score card did NOT have Dex winning ! where did you get that from?
I can't tell you, you just have to trust me. But if you know me, you know I wouldn't lie!
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Word out on the street is that people are starting back away from GH usage.
what street do you live on?
if you wouldnt post such nonsense, no one would guess your retarded.
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the problem is when i come on getbig and read couple threads and i see post about how "bad" gaspari arms were,,,thats were the problem is,,his arms were far far farrrrrrrrrrrr from bad or pathetic,,its not the judges fault that people get impressed with sheer size with out any connection to bodybuilding its like when girls say they want big teddy bear not the small one ,,its in the head and the judges reward it because it became the norm in 2000s,,it will go back though sooner or later
to say gaspari had average arms,,,give me a break runner up MR OLYMPIA doesnt have averge nothing,,when you take a look at any top 10 bodybuilders in the world there is nothing average on them not even calves,,stand with your calf next to them and you will see what i mean,,even if small its always quality! and quality = illusion and ilussion = size thats bodybuilding
give it couple years and it will get back to mid 90s type of physiqes
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I can't tell you, you just have to trust me. But if you know me, you know I wouldn't lie!
come on just say you dont lie much
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Coach did you do your AM cardio this morning? How about the trash, have you taken out the trash yet? Got your chicken made for tomorrow? What about groceries? Are you stocked up? ;D
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isn't here a stepmill you should be chained to?
your not going to melt that backfat off on here bitching about judging.
hope this helps.
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Coach did you do your AM cardio this morning? How about the trash, have you taken out the trash yet? Got your chicken made for tomorrow? What about groceries? Are you stocked up? ;D
yes, yes, yes, yes and YES ;D
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isn't here a stepmill you should be chained to?
your not going to melt that backfat off on here bitching about judging.
hope this helps.
Thanks for you're concern "gimmick"!
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Thanks for you're concern "gimmick"!
your welcome.
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This is from another thread but should be seriously discussed.............
"How many thread have there been that were similar to this? Hundreds? Maybe thousands? I'm not talking about just on this forum, but others. Yet the judges won't pay attention and I know for a fact that they get on not only here, but others. What I see is that the majority and concensus of the bodybuilding world are just sick and tired of seeing big, bloated, unsymmetrical, lack of work ethic, unconditioned (compared to yester year) "bodybuilders".
Not one post have I seen that anyone came on to defend todays pro's.......why? Because about 90% realize that they don't compare to the BBer's in this thread, Milos hasn't defended or any other current pro that either comes on here or posts on here or any other board for that matter..........it's pathetic that the judges, sponsors, current competitors can't defend what they ultimately screwed up......the industry"
Judges...are you freaking blind at the FACT that the fans and BBing historians are just sick of your crap and favoritism??
I think you're too much focus on the Jay/Victor result,which i will 100% agree with you,about today's BB everything in the world evolutes and thats no exception with BB.
Despite hes middle section Ronnie Coleman will always be one of the greatest BB of all times,he brought the Freaky size muscles to the Olympia stage and the fans love that.
Its true that some people don't have the genetics or commint some mistakes which reflects in phisic but we cant turn that as a general issue.
And i am not saying that Ronnie Coleman was not maybe also favored a couple of times and Kevin Levrone might have a word on that.
If you ask me which body of the all times BB would i like to have i will say maybe 1 or 2 if you ask me which body of todays BB would i like to have
its a huge extended list so its not about Bodybuilders.....
i think Bodybuilding is made of Bodybuilders and they more then anybody know this game rules and they are on the right track so i think all this old/new Bodybuilders talk is nonsense.if you want to talk about politics thats another thing.
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we got a little muscle worshipper here.... ???
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What you all are witnessing with Men's Bodybuilding is the same thing that happened with Female Bodybuilding.
The judging killed it.
The competitors were only responding to what the judges were rewarding. I remember seeing Lenda Murray, Cory Everson, and Rachel McLish on Television. I found Lenda Murray to be particularly inspiring physique wise.
Now when I see the Ms. Olympia's I want to vomit and hide in a corner.
We saw it even with fitness. They started off BEAUTIFUL...and now they are like a smaller version of women's bodybuilding. They sent out letters telling them to tone it down, but at some contests over muscularity was rewarded and at others it was frowned on.
They seem to get it right (most of the time) at the National Amatuer contests but you may as well give it up and go home at the Pro Level if your physique is not a mess.
When you look at pics of Jay versus Haney...you think WTF?
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Can someone please post a pic of the O when Shawn Ray was beat by a One Armed Yates :o....for me thats when I completely lost faith in the Judges :-\.
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Can someone please post a pic of the O when Shawn Ray was beat by a One Armed Yates :o....for me thats when I completely lost faith in the Judges :-\.
1994 was a very close contest ........................ ............for second & third ............Shawn Ray was never close to Yates .
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1994 was a very close contest ........................ ............for second & third ............Shawn Ray was never close to Yates .
Shawn blew away Yates, again, don't look at the size but pay attention to the whole picture.
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Shawn blew away Yates, again, don't look at the size but pay attention to the whole picture.
i am but i can't see sean.
maybe he got himself lost in someone's shadow again. ;D
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Shawn blew away Yates, again, don't look at the size but pay attention to the whole picture.
there's just too much blowing in probodybuilding
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I'm still baffled to this day how Shawn Ray did not win '94 Olympia ... :-\ ...He was THE best man on that stage THAT day .
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Shawn blew away Yates, again, don't look at the size but pay attention to the whole picture.
No lets not look at size in a bodybuilding contest ::) everything considered Yates was the clear winner in 1994 to quote Shawn " tonight I feel I got the place I deserved " do you know Shawn was very lucky to place second? in fact after the prejudging he was trailing Kevin Levrone in points and only ' beat ' him in the posing round !
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I'm still baffled to this day how Shawn Ray did not win '94 Olympia ... :-\ ...He was THE best man on that stage THAT day .
Agreed 8)
No lets not look at size in a bodybuilding contest ::) everything considered Yates was the clear winner in 1994 to quote Shawn " tonight I feel I got the place I deserved " do you know Shawn was very lucky to place second? in fact after the prejudging he was trailing Kevin Levrone in points and only ' beat ' him in the posing round !
I did not know that :o, but surely you can't say that Yates was better On that Day than Ray...or Levrone for that matter, hell he could have been as low as 5th or so :o. Just two cents, but it is one of those topics that will go on forever I guess 8)
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Agreed 8)
I did not know that :o, but surely you can't say that Yates was better On that Day than Ray...or Levrone for that matter, hell he could have been as low as 5th or so :o. Just two cents, but it is one of those topics that will go on forever I guess 8)
No according to the scoresheets Ray was trailing Levrone he was no where near Yates ! he was very lucky to beat Kevin which the crowd upon hearing this strongly disapproved.
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true, but sadly no one cares about bbing...unless it related to steroids.
the Mitchell Report is being released to the public after the world series but given to players association before so lawyers for players have time to respond. we can expect leaks soon.