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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Livewire on October 14, 2007, 12:52:51 AM

Title: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Livewire on October 14, 2007, 12:52:51 AM
You gave it to Lee Priest decades ago when he petitioned after winning Mr Australia.  You gave a card to Milos for taking 5th at some Yugo show.  You guys do it all the time.

Sami is better than most IFBB pros. 

He wants to be in the IFBB.  He's won his national championship for his nation what, 8 times now?

he's polite and well-mannered and would be an asset to the sport.

His physique is incredible - he rivals Silvio, easily.

He never "left" the IFBB - he did PDi cause it was there and IFBB wouldn't accept him.


So come on, IFBB officials reading getbig.  Make it happen.  We'd all love to see Sami competing and would follow his placings greatly.  He's a top physique - please give him a pro card via his national win.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Andre Nickatina on October 14, 2007, 12:57:24 AM
Cue Bob the rain cloud  ;D
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Livewire on October 14, 2007, 01:01:23 AM
Cue Bob the rain cloud  ;D

LOL

Seriously, the IFBB does these things when it wants to.  Didn't Gunter get SIX Olympia invites or something, just so he'd compete at the show?

They have the ability to give tickets if they choose.

Bob will probably tell us all the reasons why he doesn't deserve one.  Cause being right is better than doing what's best for bbing :(
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Tre on October 14, 2007, 08:54:00 AM

What a tremendous PR move this would be for the International Federation of Bodybuilders. 

Do it and do not look back!
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: bigdumbbell on October 14, 2007, 08:56:37 AM
he aint paid his dues   that would send the wrong messege to everybody
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Tre on October 14, 2007, 09:11:18 AM
he aint paid his dues   that would send the wrong message to everybody

What would the wrong message be?

And how does that message compare to the message sent by giving Mr. Cutler another Olympia title this year?
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: bigdumbbell on October 14, 2007, 09:13:40 AM
What would the wrong message be?

And how does that message compare to the message sent by giving Mr. Cutler another Olympia title this year?
might be dont pay dues and get a gift...oh yeah...that's the way they operate, my bad.  give him the card
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Livewire on October 14, 2007, 10:17:12 AM
he aint paid his dues   that would send the wrong messege to everybody

he won nationals in Bahrain for 8 years.

He can't compete in nationals or USAs cause he's not an American or Canadian!

he's paid his dues already.

Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Ex Coelis on October 14, 2007, 10:30:23 AM
What would the wrong message be?

And how does that message compare to the message sent by giving Mr. Cutler another Olympia title this year?

I believe his legal name is Mr. Muscletech now

He gave up all ownership when he accepted a Sandow purchased by the company
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 14, 2007, 10:41:08 AM
You gave it to Lee Priest decades ago when he petitioned after winning Mr Australia.  You gave a card to Milos for taking 5th at some Yugo show.  You guys do it all the time.

Sami is better than most IFBB pros. 

He wants to be in the IFBB.  He's won his national championship for his nation what, 8 times now?

he's polite and well-mannered and would be an asset to the sport.

His physique is incredible - he rivals Silvio, easily.

He never "left" the IFBB - he did PDi cause it was there and IFBB wouldn't accept him.


So come on, IFBB officials reading getbig.  Make it happen.  We'd all love to see Sami competing and would follow his placings greatly.  He's a top physique - please give him a pro card via his national win.

The Bahrain bb federation has to request a pro card for Sami, if the Bahrain bb federation for sum reason would not cooperate than  is 2 possibilities :1 with Rafael Santoja the new IFBB President, and is a 2nd possibility which to represent a different contry,  the 2nd possibility it is little complicated but is very much possible.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: timfogarty on October 14, 2007, 11:28:01 AM
The Bahrain bb federation has to request a pro card for Sami,

No, the IFBB can and has given pro cards to anyone they want.  Recent examples include Sergei Ogorodnikov (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ogorodnikov,+Sergei) and Marcos Chacón (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Chac%F3n,+Marcos).
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Livewire on October 14, 2007, 12:42:07 PM
No, the IFBB can and has given pro cards to anyone they want.  Recent examples include Sergei Ogorodnikov (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ogorodnikov,+Sergei) and Marcos Chacón (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Chac%F3n,+Marcos).

biceps, I appreciate your input.

But I defer to Tim Fogarty here.  Many recognize him as the pre-eminent bodybuilding historian in the industry.  I'm sure he could list ten other guys who were given pro cards without earning them the usual way.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Captain Slin on October 14, 2007, 12:51:16 PM
i think steve namat was also given a pro card.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Tre on October 14, 2007, 01:01:16 PM
The Bahrain bb federation has to request a pro card for Sami...

You're not completely wrong, but Tim is completely right here.

Although it might help to have his local federation's endorsement, it is not required

Anyone - even Vince Goodrum - may petition the IFBB directly for pro status. 
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: HERACLES on October 14, 2007, 01:12:14 PM
You're not completely wrong, but Tim is completely right here.

Although it might help to have his local federation's endorsement, it is not required

Anyone - even Vince Goodrum - may petition the IFBB directly for pro status. 

ANyone can get a pro card? That is gayer than Vince Goodbum in posing trunks.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: timfogarty on October 14, 2007, 01:39:42 PM
Many recognize him as the pre-eminent bodybuilding historian in the industry. 

that's a bit much.  I'm a statistician with a website.  Joe Roark, David Chapman, and many others are historians.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 14, 2007, 02:54:48 PM
i think steve namat was also given a pro card.

Steve Namat is the Hungarian national champ and he representing Hungary as a IFBB Pro.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Nordic Beast on October 14, 2007, 02:57:31 PM
"Please give Sami a pro card"


haha I hope so--------then he can stop his self aggrandizing, post whoring about himself ;D------

he doesnt contribute anything else to the board :-\
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 14, 2007, 03:11:14 PM
No, the IFBB can and has given pro cards to anyone they want.  Recent examples include Sergei Ogorodnikov (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ogorodnikov,+Sergei) and Marcos Chacón (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Chac%F3n,+Marcos).

Is not just for anyone the person has to be a national champion for a country.
Sami has to explane to Rafael Santoja way the Bahiaran bb federation ignores Sami`s request, than is up to Rafael to make the decision.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: JasonH on October 14, 2007, 03:14:35 PM
Sami not having a pro card is ridiculous - it's quite possible he'd have made the posedown in this year's Olympia.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Tre on October 14, 2007, 03:15:38 PM
Is not just for anyone the person has to be a national champion for a country.

This is not true. 

Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 14, 2007, 03:21:31 PM
This is not true. 



To compet in any international bb competition you need to represant a country.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Livewire on October 14, 2007, 03:23:57 PM
"Please give Sami a pro card"


haha I hope so--------then he can stop his self aggrandizing, post whoring about himself ;D------

he doesnt contribute anything else to the board :-\

Shawn's a pro.  His posts are self-aggrandazing.
Chic's a pro.  his posts are both obnoxious AND self-aggrandazing.

Should I go on?  Sami will fit right in!
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 14, 2007, 03:29:01 PM
biceps, I appreciate your input.

But I defer to Tim Fogarty here.  Many recognize him as the pre-eminent bodybuilding historian in the industry.  I'm sure he could list ten other guys who were given pro cards without earning them the usual way.

Than have Tim Fogarty PM me so I can give him extra info on the IFBB Pro cards.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Tre on October 14, 2007, 03:56:35 PM
To compet in any international bb competition you need to represant a country.

You can represent a country without being a national champion.  That's the part I was referring to. 
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: timfogarty on October 14, 2007, 07:13:42 PM
Than have Tim Fogarty PM me so I can give him extra info on the IFBB Pro cards.

I'm right here.  I have given many examples.  Let's look at one:

Sergei Ogorodnikov (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ogorodnikov,+Sergei).  NABBA competitor from 1994 to 2006,  Winner of the amateur NABBA Mr Universe in 2000.  Competed in the NABBA Pro Universe 2001-2005, winner of the NABBA Pro Universe 2005.   After five years of competing as a pro in another league, he competed in the IFBB Santa Susanna Pro in 2006 and 2007.

Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 15, 2007, 08:29:10 AM
I'm right here.  I have given many examples.  Let's look at one:

Sergei Ogorodnikov (http://musclememory.com/show.php?a=Ogorodnikov,+Sergei).  NABBA competitor from 1994 to 2006,  Winner of the amateur NABBA Mr Universe in 2000.  Competed in the NABBA Pro Universe 2001-2005, winner of the NABBA Pro Universe 2005.   After five years of competing as a pro in another league, he competed in the IFBB Santa Susanna Pro in 2006 and 2007.



The Russian bb federation requested the IFBB pro card for Sergei. If you don`t believe me ask Sergei.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: emn1964 on October 15, 2007, 08:35:13 AM
Why should the ifbb give a pro card to someone that is a member of an organization dedicated to the destruction of the US and our way of life?  He is islamic, right?  And for all those religious scholars about to chime in with Islam is peaceful, etc save it.  Its one of the most intolerant ways of life on the planet.  In public they claim to be open and peaceful but in private they are willing to die to kill even one US citizen.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Sami The Black-smith on October 15, 2007, 03:32:23 PM
You gave it to Lee Priest decades ago when he petitioned after winning Mr Australia.  You gave a card to Milos for taking 5th at some Yugo show.  You guys do it all the time.

Sami is better than most IFBB pros. 

He wants to be in the IFBB.  He's won his national championship for his nation what, 8 times now?

he's polite and well-mannered and would be an asset to the sport.

His physique is incredible - he rivals Silvio, easily.

He never "left" the IFBB - he did PDi cause it was there and IFBB wouldn't accept him.


So come on, IFBB officials reading getbig.  Make it happen.  We'd all love to see Sami competing and would follow his placings greatly.  He's a top physique - please give him a pro card via his national win.

  THANK you very much for the THREAD bro... and i have the anttention so be back with IFBB if things can be worked up...
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Andre Nickatina on October 15, 2007, 03:39:02 PM
  THANK you very much for the THREAD bro... and i have the anttention so be back with IFBB if things can be worked up...
I love the idea Sami but after competing in the PDI (and winning!) there is no way I think the IFBB will let you in.

Especially after the great Lee Priest wasn't let back in.

Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 15, 2007, 04:03:17 PM
I love the idea Sami but after competing in the PDI (and winning!) there is no way I think the IFBB will let you in.

Especially after the great Lee Priest wasn't let back in.



Sami never said any negative  about the IFBB, so his chances are very good.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 15, 2007, 04:13:01 PM
You gave it to Lee Priest decades ago when he petitioned after winning Mr Australia.  You gave a card to Milos for taking 5th at some Yugo show.  You guys do it all the time.

Sami is better than most IFBB pros. 

He wants to be in the IFBB.  He's won his national championship for his nation what, 8 times now?

he's polite and well-mannered and would be an asset to the sport.

His physique is incredible - he rivals Silvio, easily.

He never "left" the IFBB - he did PDi cause it was there and IFBB wouldn't accept him.


So come on, IFBB officials reading getbig.  Make it happen.  We'd all love to see Sami competing and would follow his placings greatly.  He's a top physique - please give him a pro card via his national win.

I think Milos get his pro card by vining the Yugoslavian nationals.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: emn1964 on October 15, 2007, 07:05:14 PM
Besides, the ifbb will never GIVE "Sami" a pro card because he competed in the pdi and continues to do so.  If they do GIVE him one, it will only be after a long timeout during which he will not be allowed to compete in other federations
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Andre Nickatina on October 15, 2007, 07:11:38 PM
You simply can't talk about getting in the IFBB and have a show coming in 12 days with the PDI!!! Especially after ebign a champion of their shows!

Lee said a bunch of shit blah blah oh well Lee does that. Sami is not valueable to the IFBB at all and they have no problem turning their back on him and mark my words they will.

Lee Priest is an attraction! And they don't want him for the fact he went PDI and they can live without him! Hew even gave it up and sat out of shows and still got shot down.

And you think the PDI champ Sami will get in? I like him but there's  not a chance in hell.

IFBB has talent for miles and Sami is not valueable to them. Sorry just being real.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Nordic Beast on October 15, 2007, 07:37:05 PM
Like it or not Sami has become the face of the PDI------winning shows and being on posters


he has become the representation of the IFBB's competition

does anyone really think that the IFBB wants teh face of the PDI in their organization?????  Of course not!!!!!  It makes them look bad.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: sgt. d on October 15, 2007, 07:41:10 PM
Hedge, Sami already decline last time. Sorry dude
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: biceps on October 15, 2007, 08:33:27 PM
Like it or not Sami has become the face of the PDI------winning shows and being on posters


he has become the representation of the IFBB's competition

does anyone really think that the IFBB wants teh face of the PDI in their organization?????  Of course not!!!!!  It makes them look bad.

PDI  is not a recognized federation and has almost no rules and regulations and it looks like the PDI is finish, the IFBB is the bigest bb organization in the world with  rules and regulations. And they will gladly take Sami in the IFBB, and in the near future Sami will be a IFBB member.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: bigdumbbell on October 15, 2007, 08:35:45 PM
what happened to Hank Wood?
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Andre Nickatina on October 15, 2007, 08:41:14 PM
PDI  is not a recognized federation and has almost no rules and regulations and it looks like the PDI is finish, the IFBB is the bigest bb organization in the world with  rules and regulations. And they will gladly take Sami in the IFBB, and in the near future Sami will be a IFBB member.
No way. never.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: sgt. d on October 15, 2007, 09:56:09 PM
what happened to Hank Wood?

TIMEOUT ;D
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: onlyme on October 15, 2007, 11:05:10 PM
Besides, the ifbb will never GIVE "Sami" a pro card because he competed in the pdi and continues to do so.  If they do GIVE him one, it will only be after a long timeout during which he will not be allowed to compete in other federations

But the IFBB rules do not state he can't compete in a rival organization if he is not a member.  Competing in the PDI should have NO bearing on his admittance into the IFBB.  None at all.  He is not a member so the rules do NOT apply to him.  The should give him the pro card cause that is what they have done with many others in his situation.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 15, 2007, 11:28:08 PM
Why should the ifbb give a pro card to someone that is a member of an organization dedicated to the destruction of the US and our way of life?  He is islamic, right?  And for all those religious scholars about to chime in with Islam is peaceful, etc save it.  Its one of the most intolerant ways of life on the planet.  In public they claim to be open and peaceful but in private they are willing to die to kill even one US citizen.
WTF,, u dont know what ur talkin about kid.......what does religion has to do with bbing...if som terrorists are using  the name of islame or whatever religon to do ther thing that doesnt mean all of em are bad.
acctually terorrism been around in europe for ages ,,and its nothing new over here........if ur livin in the states u probably never heard about it till 2001...
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 15, 2007, 11:39:54 PM
You simply can't talk about getting in the IFBB and have a show coming in 12 days with the PDI!!! Especially after ebign a champion of their shows!

Lee said a bunch of shit blah blah oh well Lee does that. Sami is not valueable to the IFBB at all and they have no problem turning their back on him and mark my words they will.

Lee Priest is an attraction! And they don't want him for the fact he went PDI and they can live without him! Hew even gave it up and sat out of shows and still got shot down.

And you think the PDI champ Sami will get in? I like him but there's  not a chance in hell.

IFBB has talent for miles and Sami is not valueable to them. Sorry just being real.
u might be right ,,,but we need to understand that Lee's case with the IFBB is not over yet its still looked after....he might soon be back on stage.
It also true that Sami is not valueable to the IFBB..but the IFBB knows very well that he has a great potential for the next few years to make a name for himself in the organisation since he got wht it takes to earn a pro card...
Sami is a great guy ,,i really wish him all the best..cuz he deserv it
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 15, 2007, 11:47:23 PM
No way. never.

huhahahaaaa,,,and who the fvck r u to decide whether Sami should be in the IFBB or not  ;)
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 16, 2007, 02:13:20 AM
But the IFBB rules do not state he can't compete in a rival organization if he is not a member.  Competing in the PDI should have NO bearing on his admittance into the IFBB.  None at all.  He is not a member so the rules do NOT apply to him.  The should give him the pro card cause that is what they have done with many others in his situation.
ur so right buddy..but one mor thing to add..is that the IFBB dont just give Pro Cards to any loser...u should be som kind of a champion in whichever country u r,and then they ll see what kind of potentials u hav and how good u ll be as a pro .apro card might be cosidered then
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 16, 2007, 02:20:44 AM
No way. never.
BTW brutal avatar.  lol. cant stop lookin at it.  hahahaaa
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: davidpaul on October 16, 2007, 04:27:34 AM
BTW brutal avatar.  lol. cant stop lookin at it.  hahahaaa
is there a problem monster?
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 16, 2007, 06:18:24 AM
is there a problem monster?
did i talk to u david?
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: emn1964 on October 16, 2007, 06:46:27 AM
But the IFBB rules do not state he can't compete in a rival organization if he is not a member.  Competing in the PDI should have NO bearing on his admittance into the IFBB.  None at all.  He is not a member so the rules do NOT apply to him.  The should give him the pro card cause that is what they have done with many others in his situation.

What this thread is asking the ifbb to do is a DISCETIONARY act.  So their rules have no bearing what so ever.  None at all.  They can do what they want.  The ifbb has already made clear, thru its actions against Lee, that if you compete in another org, you will not be allowed to compete in the ifbb.  Right or wrong, that is their policy.  They will not give Sami a pass.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: emn1964 on October 16, 2007, 06:52:29 AM
WTF,, u dont know what ur talkin about kid.......what does religion has to do with bbing...if som terrorists are using  the name of islame or whatever religon to do ther thing that doesnt mean all of em are bad.
acctually terorrism been around in europe for ages ,,and its nothing new over here........if ur livin in the states u probably never heard about it till 2001...

Hahahahaha--I smell sand melting!  So what sand dune do you live in?  It's nothing new where you live because you live in a third world country that has no sense of order.  Religion has everything to do with Sami's quest to become an ifbb member.  The ifbb is first and foremost an AMERICAN organization created by AMERICANS.  We are at war with these muslims.  Why would any AMERICAN invite the enemy into our backyard?
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: bigdumbbell on October 16, 2007, 06:57:03 AM
i agree, that's like giving drivers licenses to illegal aliens like Governor Spitzer is doing here in NYS.  that's insanity. 
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 16, 2007, 10:06:19 AM
Hahahahaha--I smell sand melting!  So what sand dune do you live in?  It's nothing new where you live because you live in a third world country that has no sense of order.  Religion has everything to do with Sami's quest to become an ifbb member.  The ifbb is first and foremost an AMERICAN organization created by AMERICANS.  We are at war with these muslims.  Why would any AMERICAN invite the enemy into our backyard?
hahaaaaaaa,,,ur so called enemies been kickin ur as# since 2001.,and still kickin it in iraq,,lol
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Sami The Black-smith on October 16, 2007, 10:50:40 AM
Hahahahaha--I smell sand melting!  So what sand dune do you live in?  It's nothing new where you live because you live in a third world country that has no sense of order.  Religion has everything to do with Sami's quest to become an ifbb member.  The ifbb is first and foremost an AMERICAN organization created by AMERICANS.  We are at war with these muslims.  Why would any AMERICAN invite the enemy into our backyard?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: emn1964 on October 16, 2007, 12:05:45 PM
hahaaaaaaa,,,ur so called enemies been kickin ur as# since 2001.,and still kickin it in iraq,,lol

USA is still the greatest country in the world and always will be.
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Monster81 on October 16, 2007, 12:16:17 PM
USA is still the greatest country in the world and always will be.
yeah buddy,,and part of that greatness was also built and shared by the millions of muslims(ur enimies) who live out there  ;)
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: timfogarty on October 16, 2007, 04:15:35 PM
The ifbb is first and foremost an AMERICAN organization created by AMERICANS. 

Canada being the 51st state, of course.

(Joe and Ben Weider are Canadians, the IFBB is incorporated in Canada)
Title: Re: Dear IFBB: Please give Sami a pro card
Post by: Rampage on October 16, 2007, 09:06:40 PM
Quote
Why should the ifbb give a pro card to someone that is a member of an organization dedicated to the destruction of the US and our way of life?  He is islamic, right?  And for all those religious scholars about to chime in with Islam is peaceful, etc save it.  Its one of the most intolerant ways of life on the planet.  In public they claim to be open and peaceful but in private they are willing to die to kill even one US citizen.

 :o

WoW

You know alot what happens behind peoples closed doors....thems scary powers