Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Pet Board => Topic started by: jaejonna on October 19, 2007, 08:40:28 AM
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My best freind and his wife had this dog named 'Savage' who is like my favorite dog off all time. A beautiful Red Nosed Pit who is super obedient. Big as a house too. Then they adopted a red nose female named Xena who is just adorable. Im going to take pics later but if anyone wants to get one of these guys then let me know.
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what city/state do you live in?
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Why are they trying to place them?
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NJ/NY area... My friend said he wanted to breed his dog and make some $$$. Def. not a puppy mill or anything like that, we treat animals with the upmost respect and dignity. I will be getting a male. He said that he was going to post a craigslist ad, but I know the people on the Pet board are good pet owners so I just randomly brought this up. Correct me if I am out of bounds , by all means.
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NJ/NY area... My friend said he wanted to breed his dog and make some $$$. Def. not a puppy mill or anything like that, we treat animals with the upmost respect and dignity. I will be getting a male. He said that he was going to post a craigslist ad, but I know the people on the Pet board are good pet owners so I just randomly brought this up. Correct me if I am out of bounds , by all means.
well hopefullly his main objective in selling the pups isnt the money. there are just too many scumbags out there who search those ads just looking for pitbulls. maybe he has other friends or family members who would also want to get one. if he does place an ad he should take the time carefully screen and interview everyone.
have the pups been born yet? pictures?
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who wants one?any crack dealer in the NJ/NY area.
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hook up with my homie dmx
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Good luck. There are TONS of Pits down here in Broward, probably due to them being banned in Palm Beach and Dade counties. I got my boy for pretty cheap though, his mother was a Red Nose, father a Blue. However, it seems that the big money at the moment is geared towards BLUES, particularily of the Gotti, Razors Edge, and Gray Fox lines and these dogs are often huuuuge. While a massive, huge-headed Pit looks impressive, I think it actually defeats the overall purpose of a Pit in being an agile, athletic, and medium-sized dog. I call those dogs Hippos :). As for making a bit of money, well, I don't think you'll make THAT much on just 1 litter or 2 of pups...you have to factor in shots, vet visits for the mother post-birth, food, space, accessories.
Hope they find good homes, there are an overwhelming amount of Pit Bulls and Pit Bull mixes in shelters across the US. They make great family dogs and are extremely intelligent.
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This idea has disaster written all over it.
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Good luck. There are TONS of Pits down here in Broward, probably due to them being banned in Palm Beach and Dade counties. I got my boy for pretty cheap though, his mother was a Red Nose, father a Blue. However, it seems that the big money at the moment is geared towards BLUES, particularily of the Gotti, Razors Edge, and Gray Fox lines and these dogs are often huuuuge. While a massive, huge-headed Pit looks impressive, I think it actually defeats the overall purpose of a Pit in being an agile, athletic, and medium-sized dog. I call those dogs Hippos :). As for making a bit of money, well, I don't think you'll make THAT much on just 1 litter or 2 of pups...you have to factor in shots, vet visits for the mother post-birth, food, space, accessories.
Hope they find good homes, there are an overwhelming amount of Pit Bulls and Pit Bull mixes in shelters across the US. They make great family dogs and are extremely intelligent.
Agreed. People do the same thing with Rotties and breed them for size, and you have big lanky disproportionate 160lb Rottweilers. An APBT terrier should be like 40-75lbs, and athletic as can be. These people who breed these supposedly "100lb" beasts are kind of silly, because while the dogs look cool and all, it isn't what they were meant to be and to relate it to bodybuilding. I wonder what age those dogs live to. Most of those kennels have the dogs with chains around their neck and shit like a DMX video. It is such a macho thing. If you want a big dog buy a mastiff or a Dogo or something, a dog that can handle the weight it was meant to carry, don't get a dog that is 100lbs and 17 inches at the shoulder, lol. I'd never buy one of those puppies without meeting the parents, in fear of what kind of temperament they came from.
If I personally were ever to buy a pitbull I'd find someone who has both the male and female on the property, and is affiliated with SOME sort of governing body, obviously not the AKC since APBT's aren't recognized.
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Agreed. People do the same thing with Rotties and breed them for size, and you have big lanky disproportionate 160lb Rottweilers. An APBT terrier should be like 40-75lbs, and athletic as can be. These people who breed these supposedly "100lb" beasts are kind of silly, because while the dogs look cool and all, it isn't what they were meant to be and to relate it to bodybuilding. I wonder what age those dogs live to. Most of those kennels have the dogs with chains around their neck and shit like a DMX video. It is such a macho thing. If you want a big dog buy a mastiff or a Dogo or something, a dog that can handle the weight it was meant to carry, don't get a dog that is 100lbs and 17 inches at the shoulder, lol. I'd never buy one of those puppies without meeting the parents, in fear of what kind of temperament they came from.
If I personally were ever to buy a pitbull I'd find someone who has both the male and female on the property, and is affiliated with SOME sort of governing body, obviously not the AKC since APBT's aren't recognized.
I have a red nosed pit. And she is the most obedient, affectionate dog I've ever owned. Just a great dog. You do make some good points in your post. Most people do not understand that a pit is not a real big dog according to the standards of the UKC. My female is just under 50 pounds. The 100 plus pound dogs that you see advertised on the net aren't pits that are true to the breed. And they come with a whole host of ortho problems. And the people that continue to breed these monsters are ruining the breed.
But I'd really tell Jae to re-think breeding to make a few bucks. Most people don't make that much. Consider the vet bills, food, time commitment, etc. and it's an expensive proposition. Then, unless you have a really good bloodline, the price you can charge may not cover your costs. Just some things to consider. If you want to learn more about breeding and the breed itself, there are a few forums specific to game dogs out there where you can talk to people about it
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I have a red nosed pit. And she is the most obedient, affectionate dog I've ever owned. Just a great dog. You do make some good points in your post. Most people do not understand that a pit is not a real big dog according to the standards of the UKC. My female is just under 50 pounds. The 100 plus pound dogs that you see advertised on the net aren't pits that are true to the breed. And they come with a whole host of ortho problems. And the people that continue to breed these monsters are ruining the breed.
But I'd really tell Jae to re-think breeding to make a few bucks. Most people don't make that much. Consider the vet bills, food, time commitment, etc. and it's an expensive proposition. Then, unless you have a really good bloodline, the price you can charge may not cover your costs. Just some things to consider. If you want to learn more about breeding and the breed itself, there are a few forums specific to game dogs out there where you can talk to people about it
By game dogs do you mean fighting dogs?
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I use the word game to describe their temperment and intensity, although people do use the word game to describe their fighting ability. When people familiar with the breed now refer to a pit as being game (as I do), most refer to the fact that true bred pits do everything at 110%--they will play at 110% (my pit plays with a couple rots at the dog park and is relentless, even when they are pooped), love you at 110%, defend themselves at 110%, defend YOU at 110% and want to please you at 110% (which incidently is why they are quick learners). That is to be distinguished from a dog that has been "game tested" which does relate to its fighting charachteristics.
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Good luck. There are TONS of Pits down here in Broward, probably due to them being banned in Palm Beach and Dade counties. I got my boy for pretty cheap though, his mother was a Red Nose, father a Blue. However, it seems that the big money at the moment is geared towards BLUES, particularily of the Gotti, Razors Edge, and Gray Fox lines and these dogs are often huuuuge. While a massive, huge-headed Pit looks impressive, I think it actually defeats the overall purpose of a Pit in being an agile, athletic, and medium-sized dog. I call those dogs Hippos :). As for making a bit of money, well, I don't think you'll make THAT much on just 1 litter or 2 of pups...you have to factor in shots, vet visits for the mother post-birth, food, space, accessories.
Hope they find good homes, there are an overwhelming amount of Pit Bulls and Pit Bull mixes in shelters across the US. They make great family dogs and are extremely intelligent.
who cares if the dogs are built for size-----------yes they arent the breed standard and they would be worthless as "fighting dogs" but I would never want to own a dog for that anyway
personally i love the bully pits, their temparment are second to none in terms of gentleness and tempermant. People are breeding them without "fighting" in mind, they are breed more as show dogs. They also are quite athletic though, more so than a person who has never owned them would think. I think taking the focus off pits as "fighting dogs" is a great thing. I own to pits that are "breed standard" and one who is a bully pit, and I love them both and would not judge anyone better than the other.
I cant stand when people get all judgmental about bully pits----------they are not "cows", they are very very athletic and agile for their size--if you dont think so then you have never owned one and are just being ignorant. They are beautiful dogs and not the breed standard but I dont think thats a bad thing.
If you dont like the look then thats cool but to negatively judge them and make assumptions about them is just plain ignorant and absurd :-\
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Finally someone knows the correct size for a APBT!
Looking online at a 100lb Pit Bull is crazy! Totally unnatural, anyone can mix a Pit Bull w/ a mastiff if they wanted to, what's the point?
my dog is not mixed with a mastiff ;)
he is a blue ribbon UKC registered dog----I have his pedigree back 7 generations and their is no mastiff "mixed" in
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my dog is not mixed with a mastiff ;)
he is a blue ribbon UKC registered dog----I have his pedigree back 7 generations and their is no mastiff "mixed" in
If you are going to brag about a dog that you supposedly have, then get it right. It's PURPLE RIBBON, not BLUE
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If you are going to brag about a dog that you supposedly have, then get it right. It's PURPLE RIBBON, not BLUE
AHahahahaha.
I like emn1964.
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If you are going to brag about a dog that you supposedly have, then get it right. It's PURPLE RIBBON, not BLUE
ok mr detail nazi---------first off all I wasnt bragging, if you happened to read my earlier posts you will see i own pits that are breed standard and bully and dont see any as better than the other--------secondly irregardlessIf i mistakenly said blue instead of purple--- my dog's pedigree is still documented 7 generations back and there is no "mastiff" mixed in :-*
oh and bro If you think I "supposedly" have the dog then you must not have seen my thread where I have pics of my puppy and parents and ancestors----------sorry to burst your bubble :-\
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ok mr detail nazi---------first off all I wasnt bragging, if you happened to read my earlier posts you will see i own pits that are breed standard and bully and dont see any as better than the other--------secondly irregardlessIf i mistakenly said blue instead of purple--- my dog's pedigree is still documented 7 generations back and there is no "mastiff" mixed in :-*
oh and bro If you think I "supposedly" have the dog then you must not have seen my thread where I have pics of my puppy and parents and ancestors----------sorry to burst your bubble :-\
meltdown
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ok mr detail nazi---------first off all I wasnt bragging, if you happened to read my earlier posts you will see i own pits that are breed standard and bully and dont see any as better than the other--------secondly irregardlessIf i mistakenly said blue instead of purple--- my dog's pedigree is still documented 7 generations back and there is no "mastiff" mixed in :-*
oh and bro If you think I "supposedly" have the dog then you must not have seen my thread where I have pics of my puppy and parents and ancestors----------sorry to burst your bubble :-\
I feel compelled to tell you that "irregardless" is not a word. Please don't melt again.
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meltdown
haha nice to see your're still following me around :-*
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All I ask is that we keep this shit out of CHucka's thread, which you guys have so far thanks....
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All I ask is that we keep this shit out of CHucka's thread, which you guys have so far thanks....
well I dont even know what Im doing in this thread since according to "eminem1964" I dont even own a pit :-\ :P ;D
oh and congrats on chucka being dog of the month sin----well deserved, great looking boy for 8 months 8)
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well I dont even know what Im doing in this thread since according to "eminem1964" I dont even own a pit :-\ :P ;D
oh and congrats on chucka being dog of the month sin----well deserved, great looking boy for 8 months 8)
Thanks Nordic your boy is getting fucking huge......Yeah my boys are sitting at about 60 lbs or so.. but chucka doesnt show his muscle the way chaos does?
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Thanks Nordic your boy is getting fucking huge......Yeah my boys are sitting at about 60 lbs or so.. but chucka doesnt show his muscle the way chaos does?
some bloodlines take a little longer to "pop" in terms of muscle---------the part of my boy's bloodline (Chaos blood) is notorius for taking up to 2 years for some of the males really fill out.
ohh and here is some pics of my boy for the doubters and people full of malice ;)
how can you hate on such a cute little guy :-\
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well I dont even know what Im doing in this thread since according to "eminem1964" I dont even own a pit :-\ :P ;D
oh and congrats on chucka being dog of the month sin----well deserved, great looking boy for 8 months 8)
never said you don't own a pit. just that if you are going to brag about your dog at least get it right, that's all. don't get your panties in a bunch. BTW--good looking dog you posted.
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never said you don't own a pit. just that if you are going to brag about your dog at least get it right, that's all. don't get your panties in a bunch. BTW--good looking dog you posted.
haha no you said a dog I "supposedly" own----------and I wasnt bragging about my dog just making a point that he isnt a pit/mastiff mix thats all and to bust someone's balls on saying blue instead of purple is childish (and so is being a grammer nazi)--you obviously knew what i meant so I got my point across
other than that I never get my panties in a bunch and if I did I wouldnt hang out on the V and Y like I do----------
thanks for the compliment :)-----hes a smart and gentle little monster and if you like him check out my thread on the Y about him
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haha no you said a dog I "supposedly" own----------and I wasnt bragging about my dog just making a point that he isnt a pit/mastiff mix thats all and to bust someone's balls on saying blue instead of purple is childish (and so is being a grammer nazi)--you obviously knew what i meant so I got my point across
other than that I never get my panties in a bunch and if I did I wouldnt hang out on the V and Y like I do----------
thanks for the compliment :)-----hes a smart and gentle little monster and if you like him check out my thread on the Y about him
I see where emn1964 is coming from, because it is a detail you shouldn't miss.
Really is a great looking dog, btw, whether or not you know anything about the UKC :) I personally am not a fan of pitbulls at all because I do not meet many people who 1) Know anything about dogs and behavior, and 2) Have the actual dog trained and socialized.
Either way, great looking pitbull.
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some bloodlines take a little longer to "pop" in terms of muscle---------the part of my boy's bloodline (Chaos blood) is notorius for taking up to 2 years for some of the males really fill out.
Most dogs are 90% done growing by 12-16 months. Dogs put on 5-10lbs tops over the rest of their lives of actual working weight. This is depending on the breed of course. If a Chihuahua is 6lbs at 12 months it isn't going to wind up weighing 16lbs, lol.
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I see where emn1964 is coming from, because it is a detail you shouldn't miss.
Really is a great looking dog, btw, whether or not you know anything about the UKC :) I personally am not a fan of pitbulls at all because I do not meet many people who 1) Know anything about dogs and behavior, and 2) Have the actual dog trained and socialized.
Either way, great looking pitbull.
I really hate people who ruin the name of pitbulls for people like you----------my dogs are really well socialized and trained very well, all of my dogs love kids and get along with dogs of all size and shape.
I was never really into pure breeds before thus my mistake of saying blue instead of purple---first dog UKC registered----all my other pits are rescues
my bully pit is really great in terms of tempermant and is a pure breed blue--------Ive really started to get into the pit scene after getting him, I belong to a bunch of message boards that are focused on bully pits where most of the people have kennels and its a great way to network to stud your dog out or get puppies or just meet people whose dogs are related to yours
thanks for the kind words about my boy----he is a pit you would really like if you met him
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I really hate people who ruin the name of pitbulls for people like you----------my dogs are really well socialized and trained very well, all of my dogs love kids and get along with dogs of all size and shape.
I was never really into pure breeds before thus my mistake of saying blue instead of purple---first dog UKC registered----all my other pits are rescues
my bully pit is really great in terms of tempermant and is a pure breed blue--------Ive really started to get into the pit scene after getting him, I belong to a bunch of message boards that are focused on bully pits where most of the people have kennels and its a great way to network to stud your dog out or get puppies or just meet people whose dogs are related to yours
thanks for the kind words about my boy----he is a pit you would really like if you met him
I think even as a pitbull owner you can agree that most owners of pitbulls know nothing about their dogs, play a ton of dominance games with them(tug of war), encourage aggression, have no boundaries, know nothing about posture and how to read their dog, etc etc etc.
It is sad really. I would like to get a pitbull one day and make it a therapy dog but I love my rottweiler too much and will get another rottie when he passes away many years from now.
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I think even as a pitbull owner you can agree that most owners of pitbulls know nothing about their dogs, play a ton of dominance games with them(tug of war), encourage aggression, have no boundaries, know nothing about posture and how to read their dog, etc etc etc.
It is sad really. I would like to get a pitbull one day and make it a therapy dog but I love my rottweiler too much and will get another rottie when he passes away many years from now.
i agree with you------but a lot of my friends own pits since theyve met mine and seen how good they are with their children, so I get to see a lot of really balanced and well behaved dogs
Ive had pitbulls ever since I was a baby and it was the greatest joy growing up with my family dog who was a female pit---she was gentle, protective (saved my mom, brother and I, when him and I were toddlers, from a burglar) and the most loving dog ever. I really want my kids to experience that.
I do a lot of training with my puppy and he is only 5 months old but walks without a leash and listens to heel, sit, stay and come even if there are distractions-------he is also great on a leash. I also have a lot of cousins from age 4-16yrs old so I make sure he is around them alot to socialize him with children and all my friends have dogs so he meets and hangs out with a myriad of dogs all the time.
any bully breed you really have to be knowledgeable about socializing and dominance issues, it sounds like you know a lot and it would be good for the pitbull breed for someone like you to have one. I have influenced a lot of people to get and also realize that pits are great family dogs.
oh yeah and 10 page meltdown ;D ;)
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thats cool dude, what I was saying is I like the bulldogs that are about 60lbs (male) and 45-50lbs (female) max. The big ones are cool to look at, but I like the more traditional look.
I'm just not a huge fan of the 100lb pit bull...(not saying all the bulldogs that are 100lbs are mix-breed), I should of choose my words better.
I tell you what, 5lbs or 500000lbs, in my mind it doesnt' get much better than the APBT....I love 'em all!!
There are some great looking dogs on this site also...very cool
I think what some people were saying is there is no 100lb APBT. They were cross bred with SOMETHING.
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I think what some people were saying is there is no 100lb APBT. They were cross bred with SOMETHING.
I wont argue with you that a 100-150lb pitbull is not the breed standard-----my only arguement was that for my dog whose father is 115lbs, I know for sure is pure pit and has not had any other breed mixed in----I have teh UKC pedigree, a 7 generation poster that shows all the ancestors. I have also seen pic pedigree of my dog going back 5 generations and its clear that tehy were breeding the biggest pits together to slowly get a bigger pit.
even if someone wanted to name big pits, "bully pitbulls" it doesnt bother me, but I know for a fact mine is pure pitbull, people just breed for size and tempermant instead of the breed standard.
I see nothing wrong with that as long as people also breed pitbulls breed standard----american bulldogs have two differnt versions, the Johnson and the I really cant remember the southern maybe.-------------
yes teh big pits would be worthless as fighting dogs which is what the breed standard is oriented around but I dont think thats a bad thing--------you wont ever see people fighting bully pits and I think anything that takes Fighting focus off of pitbulls is inherently a positive thing.
do you guys know anyone very closely that breeds bully pits or are you just speculating that they are breeding them with mastiffs because they are big ???
I can tell you anyone who is discovered to do anything like that in the bully pit breeding game would be ostracised and riduclued. that is a severe insult to a person's dogs, Ive seen people want to kill each other of accusations of that (no joke, i belong to many bully pit message boards where everyone knows everyone's real life name and kennel) and seen people present pedigrees to disprove that.
oh yeah and meltdown ;D
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I never said they are breeding them with mastiffs. But the actual "American Pitbull Terrier" by definition of the breed is no where near 100+lbs. Not even close, that is insane. Those pitbull farms like Muglestons, if those dogs are in fact over 100lbs they are doing SOMETHING to them. That is not normal.
The above picture is an APBT. The bottom pic is not. If you want a big dog, get a Mastiff.
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Breeding pits for the enormous size is ruining the breed. Sure, they may make great pets and be obedient and have a great temperment, but they aren't pits in the traditional sense of the word. Everyone involved to any extent with the breed will tell you that. There are breed standards for several reasons. Not the least of which is to cull the breed of bad genetic traits such as ortho problems in these 100pound pit/mastiff crosses. Sorry to tell you Nord, but any dog over 100 pounds is not pure pit. No way, no how. I really don't care how many generations back your dog's pedigree goes. There's one in the wood pile as they say and it's a mastiff. someone lied to you pal.
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Breeding pits for the enormous size is ruining the breed. Sure, they may make great pets and be obedient and have a great temperment, but they aren't pits in the traditional sense of the word. Everyone involved to any extent with the breed will tell you that. There are breed standards for several reasons. Not the least of which is to cull the breed of bad genetic traits such as ortho problems in these 100pound pit/mastiff crosses. Sorry to tell you Nord, but any dog over 100 pounds is not pure pit. No way, no how. I really don't care how many generations back your dog's pedigree goes. There's one in the wood pile as they say and it's a mastiff. someone lied to you pal.
They are cross-bred with SOMETHING. Mastiff would likely give a much different response, but that is no pure pitbull.
Nordics dog, I dunno. It isn't like Muglestons type pitbull, so who knows.
I am no expert on genetics/breeding, I know behavior and thats about it lol.
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Its funny seeing his pit at this age being the same age as mine and looks like he's 4 times the size of my pit. There is a specific mix breed referred to as bandogges that are pitbull and mastif mix, just an FYI. Pretty similar in looks to nordics.
(http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/dog-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/american-bandogge-mastiff-pictures-breeders-puppies-rescue/pictures/american-bandogge-mastiff-0009.jpg)
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I understand your arguements but I dont think its ruining hte breed----becuase their will always be the breed standard. I dont think having a sub-division of pitbull is a bad thing. I dont think all pits should be this big---Im not argueing to change the breed.
I have 2 other pits which are rescues also and breed standard and Ive owned breed standard pits all my life. I can tell you that my bully pit acts and behaves just like a pitbull.
I really dont want to argue about this but I just want to say that I love my bully pit and I dont think that they are a detriment to the breed, anything that makes the breed more popular and more socially understood and accepted is a good thing.
I dont think we should be putting down any pitbulls-----too many people do that. Big or small pitbulls are the greatest dogs in the world, most loyal and best family dog.
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I think its a cool breed bullybreed either way. Just depends on what you want. Seems like there is much debating of the obvious. Nordic has already said many times he gets it.
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lol at Brandy sitting in the car seat. Dogs pwn.
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I think its a cool breed bullybreed either way. Just depends on what you want. Seems like there is much debating of the obvious. Nordic has already said many times he gets it.
cool----guys I appreciate that you understand what Im trying to say and I respect your viewpoint about how a pitbull should be breed standard.
I have actually owned an american bulldog------great breed, i had one though that was given to my girl from a shitty breeder who I found out later was continueing to breed this line even though they had severe aggresion problems. I had a male who was the most protective dog I have ever had----real one person dog, I had him trained well, even took him to a police dog trainer. I always wondered why he was the way he was since I had pits all my life and never had an aggresive dog but I found out later that the dogs mom had killed dogs and his entire bloodline was real aggresive but the guy continued to breed them since they were real diesal.
It really broke my heart he was so dog and people aggresive-----I loved him since he was so bonded to me but it was challenging to say the least. He got along with my other pits but that was since he knew them from a puppy, any other dog he tried to kill.
For instance, even though my brother was at my house every day and the dog loved him, if my dog was in my car he wouldnt him in, snarled and growled at anybody except me. No one could go near me when I was sleeping except my girl. It was just his nature----I tried everything.
That was really my only experience with an american bulldog (so my viewpoint is skewed) except my girls parents owned a female who was the opposite and the sweetest dog ever.
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cool----guys I appreciate that you understand what Im trying to say and I respect your viewpoint about how a pitbull should be breed standard.
I have actually owned an american bulldog------great breed, i had one though that was given to my girl from a shitty breeder who I found out later was continueing to breed this line even though they had severe aggresion problems. I had a male who was the most protective dog I have ever had----real one person dog, I had him trained well, even took him to a police dog trainer. I always wondered why he was the way he was since I had pits all my life and never had an aggresive dog but I found out later that the dogs mom had killed dogs and his entire bloodline was real aggresive but the guy continued to breed them since they were real diesal.
It really broke my heart he was so dog and people aggresive-----I loved him since he was so bonded to me but it was challenging to say the least. He got along with my other pits but that was since he knew them from a puppy, any other dog he tried to kill.
For instance, even though my brother was at my house every day and the dog loved him, if my dog was in my car he wouldnt him in, snarled and growled at anybody except me. No one could go near me when I was sleeping except my girl. It was just his nature----I tried everything.
That was really my only experience with an american bulldog (so my viewpoint is skewed) except my girls parents owned a female who was the opposite and the sweetest dog ever.
If a dog aggressive bitch gives birth, it does NOT mean the pups are born aggressive. RIDICULOUS.
"For instance, even though my brother was at my house every day and the dog loved him, if my dog was in my car he wouldnt him in, snarled and growled at anybody except me. No one could go near me when I was sleeping except my girl. It was just his nature----I tried everything."
That is because you weren't in charge of that dog and he felt the need to protect you. You were his possession. It is called dominance my friend.
I had a male who was the most protective dog I have ever had----real one person dog, I had him trained well, even took him to a police dog trainer.
Police trainers don't know shit and most police dogs are NOT lovey dovey happy dogs because they dont have to be. They are treated like shit. Being a "one person dog" does not mean it will be protective. Whether the dog is a one person dog or a family dog, it is supposed to feel PROTECTED BY YOU. Not the other way around. Alpha dogs don't get protected by their pack. Alpha dogs protect their pack.
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I dont think having a sub-division of pitbull is a bad thing.
Don't you think perhaps the AKC should recognize the APBT before people start adding "sub-divisions"? The breed has a bad name as it is. You don't need 100lb pitbulls instead of the 60lb pitbulls that are causing all the problems.
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Temper I dont understand how you can argue that a dog with a mother or father with an animal or people aggressive temperment wouldnt at least be prone to that type of behavior. Doesnt seem rediculous to me.
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Temper I dont understand how you can argue that a dog with a mother or father with an animal or people aggressive temperment wouldnt at least be prone to that type of behavior. Doesnt seem rediculous to me.
How can I argue it? Its 100% false. Aggression is learned through socialization. Dogs used in the pit aren't born dog aggressive, they are taught to be aggressive towards dogs during the phase that they are SUPPOSED to be taught to be friendly.
If aggression is genetic then why do people have calm and obedient pitbulls? To say it comes from birth would mean the aggression is irreversible and unavoidable.
There is a difference between the overall temperament of a dog and stuff like aggression. My dogs father was very aloof, so Plato is very aloof. That is personality. Aggression is not personality. Dogs aren't born aggressive to every dog they see like dogs in the pit. If they were, puppies would be attacking their litter. This isn't the case because aggression is a learned behavior.
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ok if aggression is not carried on through genes then how do you explain the breeding of fighting dogs vs say bichon frises------they both started out as the same thing long ago
many traits are genetic and tempermant and aggression are defintly one of those and to argue against that is ridicuolous and one of the most ignorant things I have ever heard.
and I didnt train the dog to attack people and I only took him to the police trainer for a little while so your arguement against that is void. I have had dogs all my life and have never had one be aggresive except for that dog so its not a coincidence that it behaved like that and had a family history of aggresive behavoir.
it sounds like you are an expert in your head though and dont want to hear anything else so I won't argue with you about it.
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Dude, no offense, but you are fucking clueless.
1) You didn't even know the certifcation of your own dog. That is flat out pathetic.
2) Do you even know what "aggression" is ? You obviously do not. The reason pitbulls are bred is because of their gameness, not because of AGGRESSION. Do you know what "gameness" is? You obviously do not. Gameness is willingness to fight and reluctance to submit. Pitbulls are not bred because of how aggressive they are as adults. Shit, adult dogs in the pit who are TOO aggressive is frowned upon, especially towards humans who are labeled "man biters". An overly aggressive dog is NOTHING positive in dogfighting.
"and I didnt train the dog to attack people and I only took him to the police trainer for a little while so your arguement against that is void."
I never said you did, and no one said your dog was trained to attack people. Police dogs are trained in personal protection. Everything is done via command, they don't want the dogs thinking for themselves or making their own decisions. Alot of the times there are scenarios where cops are attacked in the line of duty with the dog in a car/on a leash, and unless the dog is given the command he will not defend the police officer. Why? Like I said because they treat them like shit... Having a police dog schooled in personal protection is much different than having your own personal protection dog who WOULD defend you without command because its pack drive is harnessed throughout its training. Alot of time with police dogs the officer who is with him is NOT the one who trained him, therefore THERE IS NO BOND.
You went to a police trainer...WOW. Is this supposed to impress me? You know what will impress me? Get your dog that you have right now his CGC by 9 months and then his CD by a year and a half. Real great job that police trainer did. He was so smart he can't even explain to you what the problem was and why so now you cloud this forum with your pointless banter.
"I have had dogs all my life and have never had one be aggresive except for that dog so its not a coincidence that it behaved like that and had a family history of aggresive behavoir."
By this logic you are blaming the breed and the dog. By this logic pitbulls should be aggressive and it isn't the owners fault. Isn't it pitbull owners that like to claim "punish the deed, not the breed" ? You are flat out defying that saying. You are blaming lineage and breed characteristics, and not someones own stupidity and ignorance in training their dog.
"it sounds like you are an expert in your head though and dont want to hear anything else so I won't argue with you about it."
I am no expert, but some of my closest friends are certified experts who have been training dogs in personal protection and titling schutzhund dogs for over 20 years.
Hows this "Nordic Beast"
I will bet you FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS you can take a male and female who fight in the pit, breed them through a rape stand if the female is unwilling to take the male, and those puppies that come out I can raise them(one of them is really the easiest, I do have a life) to be as good with people and animals alike as fucking Petey from the Little Rascals.
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I'm not even close to an expert on breeding or geneitcs, but I would say that if both parents are naturally agressive, then the child is also likely to be agressive (talking about bulldogs here)?
I know nurture is also a huge part, is it safe to say that the APBT is 9 times out of 10 going to be naturally dog agressive unless he/she is properly socialized to NOT be agressive? As you all know gameness is also another trait that has been bred into the bulldog, if both parents are game; there is a good chance the pups will be game as well?
I'd say you're looking at a mixture of how much is inhereted through breeding and how much is learned through socialization. Like I said I may be 100% wrong....one thing I know for sure is that most of the time I don't know shit!
It is not safe to say that at all. That is absurd, jesus christ. Do you not understand I could take any puppy of any breed at 8 weeks old and make it devastatingly aggressive to humans and dogs alike by the time it is 12 months.
APBT's are dominant dogs, and that is where the problems come from. They are also extremely energetic dog and because of their history a surplus of energy + no boundaries = aggression. This is how they release their pent up energy, just as I dunno, a herding dog might herd your kids in the yard.
Gameness is GENETIC. Puppies used for fighting are killed once they realize they aren't game as they would like because they are BORN with this trait, and if it is strong enough, it is harnessed. Dogs who are not willing to fight are KILLED.
Aggression is learned. "Punish the deed, not the breed." The mother of all pitbull sayings.
deed = teaching your dog to be aggressive. a learned behavior.
breed = the dog is inherently aggressive as the public believes, and this behavior cannot be changed.
What side of the fence are you and Nordic on? You are both pitbull owners.
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Ok now because I dont agree with you I obviously dont know anything about pitbulls and support dogfighting---ala the "which side are you on" statement
you are having a temper tantrum man :-\
tempermant is trait passed on----thats why breeders wont breed a dog with a bad one so that its not carried on----and its easy to make a dog aggresive =just abuse it===that doesnt prove anything :-\
your other arguements aren't even addressing that----
are you a breeder??? I guarantee you arent.
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oh and it wasnt even a pitbull I was talking about it was an American Bulldog---so your going off about the wrong premise
my Vet has also said he has seen that problem in American Bulldog's many times-----and so have other breeders told me the same thing
and it is also widely known some breeds are more aggresive in nature than others------is that nurture--no its the genetics of the dog.
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You sir, know nothing.
I would take the time to rip apart your last two posts but it is just too easy. No offense but you might have the worst reading comprehension of anyone ive seen on the internet. You aren't even reading what I am saying. It is really sad because you could learn a thing or two and why you are wrong about the way you view dogs. This is why I hate the internet, everyone knows everything. Their "vet" told them this, they have a friend who breeds collies who told them that. So much misinformation. Reading your posts to anyone with a large amount of knowledge in dog behavior is just ASTOUNDING that you believe the things you do, and especially when you own the breed you do.
Am I breeder? No, lol. Like that makes someone an authority?
"Bad Newz Kennels" was owned an operated by Michael Vick, a registered breeder with the AKC.
Unless you would like to take me up on my five thousand dollar bet that I can do everything I said and have a puppy obedience titled by 18 months as well, I will no longer respond to your posts directly.
Good luck with your dog.
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you contradict yourself--first you say a fighting dog isnt an aggresive dog and its not needed or encouraged but your bet is predicated on turning taking a puppy from a pitbull who is a fighting dog and showing it isnt aggresive ??? well according to you they arent breed to be that aggresive so what are you showing, nothing.
Ive rescued pits from the innercity and they are socialized and nice to dogs, cats and kids. you think because since you have rescued a dog and its nice you know everything and can change any dog. your holier than thou attitude is shit and it shows your ignorance.
makes no sense----what your problem is you relate aggressive to fighting when I wasnt talking about dog fighting in the first place. Yes fighting pitbulls arent breed to be that aggresive so why are you using them s examples in this arguement??
I asked if you were a breeder becuase breeders understand what it takes to achieve, through breeding what kind of dog you want and what traits are passed on genetically. yet you use the dog fighting example again, ala Mike Vick. this shows your ignorance and failure to see the arguement for what it is. i wasnt talking about dog fighting but thats all you want to talk about.
you are an idiot and if you did know anything about breeding you would know straight up that tempermant is passed on genetically. you will not understand this though because of your ego and since you dance around the issue and just use example after example of dog fighting.
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hey dude, I made a statement that was my opinion, don't come on here and question what side of the fence I'm on about my dogs...
I think I've been pretty cool w/ everyone on this board, I came on here to learn about dogs and BS w/ people, not bicker back and forth...I don't agree w/ some of the things you said, in your own words 'everyone on the internet is an expert' who says you're 1000% right?
You're own words are ABPT's are dominant dogs, in order to be dominant dogs they have to be dog agressive?? In the wild they are dominant b/c they are agressive towards anyone that challenges them, am I wrong? They dominate thru agression? And you don't have a dominant breed w/o having an agressive breed. I'm showing my ignorance b/c I didn't know you could have a dominant breed, only a dominant animal, all breeds have alpha dogs and submissive dogs.
A boundless supply of energy + no boundries absolutely does NOT equal agression, that's untrue dude...
if you can breed a dog to be game, you can breed them to be agressive towards other animals, they are both mental states.
And yes I understand what punish the deed not the breed means, I have a pit bull, well trained, and she's never fought a day in her life, and never will, don't punish her for the deed of someone else.
Dude my dad has a brittney, and the dog has been pointing since he was 2 years old and was NEVER taught to do so, because it's bred into him just like agressiveness is bred into pit bulls.
Have the last word dude, like I said I don't need to get into negatives, I just came on here to bullshit after work and talk about dogs....
Please read a book or something. Oh my god would someone please shed some light on this. With this post, I am also no longer responding directly to you at any time either, LOL.
"In the wild they are dominant b/c they are agressive towards anyone that challenges them, am I wrong? "
Yes, you are VERY VERY VERY VERY wrong.
WOW
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What have we become? :-\
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Please read a book or something. Oh my god would someone please shed some light on this. With this post, I am also no longer responding directly to you at any time either, LOL.
"In the wild they are dominant b/c they are agressive towards anyone that challenges them, am I wrong? "
Yes, you are VERY VERY VERY VERY wrong.
WOW
you answer nothing------just sink to personal insults since thats the best you can do, or respond with arguments that have don't pertain to what we are talking about.
Temperament is passed on through genes, period----thats a fact. It means that a dog or breed have a greater predisposition towards aggression. Anyone who knows dogs will tell you some breeds are more aggressive than others and those breeds were created Through selective breeding thus proving aggression is a trait that is genetic (yes it can be nurtured but you think because it can be nurtured then its not genetic which is false).
Are you telling me a Canary Island dog is not more disposed towards aggression than a beagle?? Many breeds have had aggression breed out of them. Mastiffs for one are a dog that is much more gentle and docile than it was hundreds of years ago, and how was that done, through selective breeding (not breeding the more aggressive dogs). If you were a breeder or knew anything about breeding you would understand this. Temperament and aggression can be breed into or out of a dog just as height or weight or color can. To argue it cant shows your ignorance towards not only dog breeding but science and genetics.
but you resort to your frail personal insults since you cannot logically argue my points. So good day and good riddance :D
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hey dude, I made a statement that was my opinion, don't come on here and question what side of the fence I'm on about my dogs...
I think I've been pretty cool w/ everyone on this board, I came on here to learn about dogs and BS w/ people, not bicker back and forth...I don't agree w/ some of the things you said, in your own words 'everyone on the internet is an expert' who says you're 1000% right?
You're own words are ABPT's are dominant dogs, in order to be dominant dogs they have to be dog agressive?? In the wild they are dominant b/c they are agressive towards anyone that challenges them, am I wrong? They dominate thru agression? And you don't have a dominant breed w/o having an agressive breed. I'm showing my ignorance b/c I didn't know you could have a dominant breed, only a dominant animal, all breeds have alpha dogs and submissive dogs.
A boundless supply of energy + no boundries absolutely does NOT equal agression, that's untrue dude...
if you can breed a dog to be game, you can breed them to be agressive towards other animals, they are both mental states.
And yes I understand what punish the deed not the breed means, I have a pit bull, well trained, and she's never fought a day in her life, and never will, don't punish her for the deed of someone else.
Dude my dad has a brittney, and the dog has been pointing since he was 2 years old and was NEVER taught to do so, because it's bred into him just like agressiveness is bred into pit bulls.
Have the last word dude, like I said I don't need to get into negatives, I just came on here to bullshit after work and talk about dogs....
dont let him bother you bro--------he obviously has the best dog and is the best dog trainer and has all the knowledge and answers about dog breeding and genetics ::)
he's just a prick egomaniac that is running with his arguement even though its false and ridiculous and since he knows this his ego forces him to resort to insults and childish negatives.
pathetic and sad really. we were having a posistive discussion until he had to throw his incredible intellect and knowledge around. We should really all bow our heads to him and hand over our first born to him :D ::)
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Everything temper says is an absolute MELTDOWN. He cant even hold a civil discussion.
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Everything temper says is an absolute MELTDOWN. He cant even hold a civil discussion.
Oh yes an absolute MELTDOWN.
The problem is I know for a fact what I say is right. 2 + 2 = 4. That is a fact. What I say are facts. If people had even bothered to read a SIMPLE dog psychology book like Cesar's Way which is like dog psychology for dummies, this post would not have gone 3 pages. People get very sensitive when it comes to their dogs because they look at them like their children and they refuse to believe that the way they treat them is not the best case scenario. Unfortunately for Nordic and "Mr 40 Posts and I'm an Expert James Dalon", they are both typical pitbull owners.
There are people on this forum who know their shit, and alot of times the most knowledged dog owners are owners of dominant breeds. just SOME off the top of my head for example are Knny(rottie), emn(pitbull i think), flower kills me with the raw diet but she still has 3 huge dogs and they seem very calm, and of course vet who knows pretty much alot of everything and rescues dogs which is a gamble in and of itself.
When someone has a golden retriever and doesnt know alot of the shit I bitch about it doesn't worry me. THey are by and large submissive dogs, and by treating them like a baby you make them even more submissive by nurturing that state of mind. It is dominant breed owners who are just ignorant and uninformed that are the problem and absolutely just compound the issues and the way the public views their breed.
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Oh yes an absolute MELTDOWN.
The problem is I know for a fact what I say is right. 2 + 2 = 4. That is a fact. What I say are facts. If people had even bothered to read a SIMPLE dog psychology book like Cesar's Way which is like dog psychology for dummies, this post would not have gone 3 pages. People get very sensitive when it comes to their dogs because they look at them like their children and they refuse to believe that the way they treat them is not the best case scenario. Unfortunately for Nordic and "Mr 40 Posts and I'm an Expert James Dalon", they are both typical pitbull owners.
There are people on this forum who know their shit, and alot of times the most knowledged dog owners are owners of dominant breeds. just SOME off the top of my head for example are Knny(rottie), emn(pitbull i think), flower kills me with the raw diet but she still has 3 huge dogs and they seem very calm, and of course vet who knows pretty much alot of everything and rescues dogs which is a gamble in and of itself.
When someone has a golden retriever and doesnt know alot of the shit I bitch about it doesn't worry me. THey are by and large submissive dogs, and by treating them like a baby you make them even more submissive by nurturing that state of mind. It is dominant breed owners who are just ignorant and uninformed that are the problem and absolutely just compound the issues and the way the public views their breed.
yet again you fail to actually respond to any of my points :-\
great job on blowing hot air and saying nothing------------just go stroke your ego somewhere else child.
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My last post in response to Nordic Beast said:
"Unless you would like to take me up on my five thousand dollar bet that I can do everything I said and have a puppy obedience titled by 18 months as well, I will no longer respond to your posts directly.
Good luck with your dog."
My last post in response to James Dalton said:
"Oh my god would someone please shed some light on this. With this post, I am also no longer responding directly to you at any time either, LOL."
Reading comprehension anyone?! This was my entire point since this thread got out of hand. People don't even read what I wrote. You didn't read those two things, and you didn't read my posts. I guess ignorance is bliss.
I'm going to PM Knny to ask him to delete/lock this thread or delete my posts because it has gone completely off course of the original topic.
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My last post in response to Nordic Beast said:
"Unless you would like to take me up on my five thousand dollar bet that I can do everything I said and have a puppy obedience titled by 18 months as well, I will no longer respond to your posts directly.
Good luck with your dog."
My last post in response to James Dalton said:
"Oh my god would someone please shed some light on this. With this post, I am also no longer responding directly to you at any time either, LOL."
Reading comprehension anyone?! This was my entire point since this thread got out of hand. People don't even read what I wrote. You didn't read those two things, and you didn't read my posts. I guess ignorance is bliss.
I'm going to PM Knny to ask him to delete/lock this thread or delete my posts because it has gone completely off course of the original topic.
you didnt even read my response to your bet---------you are saying fighting pits arent even aggresive (I agree with you on that point) so if you take a puppy from them its not proving you can take a dog with a tempermant problem and turn it around :-\
reading comprehension-----you havent read any of my posts or points, you just go back to beating a dead point I addresed already----------go get this thread deleted, that fits in with your immature discussion style of having to resort to personal attacks .
you listen and read nothing----im wasting my time typing responses so Im done
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This thread got off track.
Both side made points...but the lovely part about having a dog....is everyone is entitled how they run their pack...or...live with a dog....or have their dog supplement their family.
I don't believe in one sole matter of raising a dog....but the one that makes us happy...the dog happy....& everyone that comes into contact with him - happy.
I've also learned that although there is a base...a foundation on owning a dog...each & every dog has a different personality or whats called temperament. That can even be the same with two dogs from the same breed. What one has to do...is fit your dogs temperament with your lifestyle.
We have to remember....that you're bringing a dog into your family & household.....& not the other way around.
This thread will be remained locked as it's gotten off track.