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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Mr. Cortisol on October 22, 2007, 07:45:39 AM
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I'm having a discussion with a gymmate about this and I think it's bad for the metabolism, and that you'd burn muscle first thing in the AM.
He says it's great cause it burns fat stores or seomthing.
Who is right? Should you have breakfast before cardio? Why/Why not? thanks!
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You're probably going to burn a little of both, but first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is really the best time to do cardio for fat burning purposes.
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You're probably going to burn a little of both, but first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is really the best time to do cardio for fat burning purposes.
but why?
I'm using a PT for the first time, I'm ashamed to say. I want to have some supports man. thanks.
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google.com
type in
cardio morning empty stomach
opinions vary on this subject.
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google.com
type in
cardio morning empty stomach
opinions vary on this subject.
hey thanks bro
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hey thanks bro
From my experiances it worked the best on a empty stomach. The immeadiatly after, have a shake.
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The theory is pretty basic. The body will have no carbs to use for energy, so it will start burning fat (and some muscle) for energy. It has worked very well in the past for me. Its hard to get going, but when you're done, you usually feel pretty good.
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As staed..if there is food in your body, it will be used first...no food in your body....fat stores will be used (dependent on the length and type of activity)
I have asked all of the Pros on this board, Chic, Shawn, Milos, Lee and others...consensus.....
Low impact: IE treadmill 3.5-4 mph for 30-45 minutes, empty stomach
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The theory is pretty basic. The body will have no carbs to use for energy, so it will start burning fat (and some muscle) for energy. It has worked very well in the past for me. Its hard to get going, but when you're done, you usually feel pretty good.
BEST time to do cardio is just before you turn in for the night, your metabolism will stay up for several hours and you'll burn even more fat in your sleep - FACT.
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I hated empty stomach cardio!!! Not for how I felt or how tired I was.
The effect was horrible, burned a ton of muscle and less fat than muscle leaving a very stringy look.
I happen to think that it's best to do either after your weights (my preferred method) or after you eat a meal of some sort. If you really feel that it's best to do in the morning as you first wake up (or can't do it at any other time) have half a can of tuna and 5-10g of BCAA's, wait 20-30min and have at it.
:)
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More gym thoeries passed down from gym rat to gym rat.
Don't make sense but you get results anyway...just because you are doing something......but not for the reason you may think.
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BEST time to do cardio is just before you turn in for the night, your metabolism will stay up for several hours and you'll burn even more fat in your sleep - FACT.
The leanest I've ever been was when I was actually doing this and first thing in the morning cardio.
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You're probably going to burn a little of both, but first thing in the morning on an empty stomach is really the best time to do cardio for fat burning purposes.
I did get leaner doing this but, feel it cost me some muscle size overall.
The theory is you get into the fat stores easier when on an empty stomach.
My experience and feeling on this, is to do cardio after a good workout (wts /bodypart)
This seems to be the best of all worlds.
The key is to do cardio when the blood sugar is LOW>
I am going to experiment with taking some amino tabs right after a body part workout BEFORE I do cardio.
Howard
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I think it burns muscle, but maybe if you do very low intensity it works better?
I do higher intensity cardio, in the middle of the day. Fast pace walking, throw in a couple of runs. I do cardio to increase my metabolism, not to burn fat directly. I don't do cardio on lifting days because that effect has already been achieved in the gym.
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I'm having a discussion with a gymmate about this and I think it's bad for the metabolism, and that you'd burn muscle first thing in the AM.
He says it's great cause it burns fat stores or seomthing.
Who is right? Should you have breakfast before cardio? Why/Why not? thanks!
if you do first thing in the morning, sip on BCAA's while doing cardio....will help spare muscle tissue with an immediate amino supply, yet
give you no carbs to burn instead of fat
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if you do first thing in the morning, sip on BCAA's while doing cardio....will help spare muscle tissue with an immediate amino supply, yet
give you no carbs to burn instead of fat
BCAAs - is that the orange syrup in the tall black containers from GNC?
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works much better with drugs (stimulants)
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no no no no no no no
never ever take in proetein or amino acids while doing your "empty stomach cardio"
this is stupid!
cardio in the morning is either done on zero calories, or done on a few grams of fats.
if you give your body protien in the morning before doing cardio, and thats all you give it, your body will try to use that protein for energy...because your body will always use any available circul;ating energy sources before it will ever use itself for energy. prtoeins CAN be converted into energy. and when consumed before tcardio they WILL BE. amino acids are the same thing...they will be converted into energy for use. the only way they are "sparing muscle", is by giving your body something to use instead of muscle for a short period of time. but what happens when these sources of energy are gone? your body will start to use itself for nergy. but what cource will it use? well, if you just fed it protein,youir body will continue to use protein...your body wants to use whatever source of energy is easiest and best for itself.
BUT, if you supplement with a few grams of fats befor eyou morningc cardio...yoru body will break these fats down and use them for energy. once these fats are used up, then your body will move directly into fat stores for energy.
really, all you can do is PROMOTE a source of enrgy's use in your body. you cannot simply tell your body "dont use this!" by giving it some..("aminos protect muscle")..
and doing it on ZERO CALORIES will provide a mixture of fats and proteins as energy....the ratio fo the mixture can be tipped highly in the favor of fat use by keeping it very moderate in intensity, by consuming some zero calorie fat burners like green tea or caffiene or soemthing like that... and l-carnitine is supposed to promote the oxidation of fat cells while not effecting the rate at which protein is mobilized for energy.
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I never had nearly as much success in getting lean when I was doing the fasted AM cardio as I did when I was doing HIIT for less than half the time. I'll never go back to AM cardio.
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to the bloke who claimed it made him stringy,,,, u never had the muscle you thought u had in the 1st place, most people thing there much bigger than what they are, look in the mirror and say, i could compete if i were 20lbs lighter, where in fact it would take more near 50lbs !!!
cardio morning and pm if you wanna get realy ripped,,,
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Not an empty stomach. Eat a little bit first. For example, an apple or yogurt. The small amount of food will trigger insulin release and you will burn more calories....
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Not an empty stomach. Eat a little bit first. For example, an apple or yogurt. The small amount of food will trigger insulin release and you will burn more calories....
:o
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Not an empty stomach. Eat a little bit first. For example, an apple or yogurt. The small amount of food will trigger insulin release and you will burn more calories....
Actually, I'm pretty sure triggering insulin release is the opposite of what you want to have happen when trying to burn fat. Go back to biology class.
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got to agree,,, pretty stupid statement
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Doing cardio first thing shows a complete lack of common sense....in the end, its calories burned vs calories consumed....a.m cardio is a myth.
has anyone here seen a calorie chart that claimed MORE calories were burned for the same activity in the morning vs in the afternoon....no.....
take an already depleted precontest bodybuilder doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning will make that individual CATABOLIC as fast as you can blink.
Doing aerobics at such a time will force your body into even a brief "starvation" mode where it will burn muscle for both energy, and to conserve fat. Your body doesnt know you are going into a show and only wish to lose fat!
It may not hurt a BB who is "enhanced", but it could destroya natural one.
Think about it.
Dont believe the crap you read in the magazines
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Doing cardio first thing shows a complete lack of common sense....in the end, its calories burned vs calories consumed....a.m cardio is a myth.
has anyone here seen a calorie chart that claimed MORE calories were burned for the same activity in the morning vs in the afternoon....no.....
take an already depleted precontest bodybuilder doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning will make that individual CATABOLIC as fast as you can blink.
Doing aerobics at such a time will force your body into even a brief "starvation" mode where it will burn muscle for both energy, and to conserve fat. Your body doesnt know you are going into a show and only wish to lose fat!
It may not hurt a BB who is "enhanced", but it could destroya natural one.
Think about it.
Dont believe the crap you read in the magazines
Very, very, very good point.
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Doing cardio first thing shows a complete lack of common sense....in the end, its calories burned vs calories consumed....a.m cardio is a myth.
has anyone here seen a calorie chart that claimed MORE calories were burned for the same activity in the morning vs in the afternoon....no.....
take an already depleted precontest bodybuilder doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning will make that individual CATABOLIC as fast as you can blink.
Doing aerobics at such a time will force your body into even a brief "starvation" mode where it will burn muscle for both energy, and to conserve fat. Your body doesnt know you are going into a show and only wish to lose fat!
It may not hurt a BB who is "enhanced", but it could destroya natural one.
Think about it.
Dont believe the crap you read in the magazines
TA??? ::)
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i can only talk for my self and every single other competitive bodybuilder i know!
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Its funny...people argue constantly about where the fuel for A.M. cardio comes from, but ultimately it doesnt matter. What matters is creating a calorie deficit...and that happens WHENEVER you do cardio. Better to do AFTER a meal, so as not to deplete glycigen stores too far to create a catabolic state.
The key to recovery is having replenished/full glycogen stores, low glycogen storage will put your body in a catabolic state. thats why its BREAK fast.
Its naive to think that low glycogen (not eating) stores makes your body burn fat as the prefered choice of fuel....then NOT eating at all will make sure that your body will only burn fat for fuel. Then, all those poor starving people in the desert are precontest gurus now!
The ETHIOPIAN Precontest diet!
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yes. a claorie defecit will allow you to burn fat. but how? because during a calorie defecit...there are periods during the day, or at night, when your body has to function on itself for energy. (burn fat). why does it have t use itself for energy? because you are giving it less calories in one day than it needs to operate...so all of the ingested calories from the day, or from the day SO FAR, have been used up. thus, your body is "starved", and because it is starved, it will use itself for energy.(burn fat). this is the result of a diet that has a caloric defecit. but in a diet with a caloric defecit...you are only forcing your bod to use itself for energy during short, spaced out intervals in the day. and oxidizing body fat takes about 20 mins. so in reality, a caloric defecits real fat loss happens at night, when your body is empty of all calories for hours on end. so the real goal of any dieter wanting to burn body fat is to get your body into a state where its using itself for energy, and the only way to do that is to empty it of any nutrients. a caloric defecit diets main gaol is to achieve this "starved state" several times throughout the day.
morning cardio is allowing for your to burn off hundreds of calories directly from your body. because in the morning, you have ZERO nutrients in your system. your making your body function on itself for energy.
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i can only talk for my self and every single other competitive bodybuilder i know!
Mainly because they read it in a magazine.....really high reps and training six days a week was also a really popular way of getting ripped years ago (even arnold did it)...everybody did it...but there was a better way.
Which is the problem with exercise and diet.....someone can do EVERYTHING wrong and still get decent results...thats where all the "experts" and "new" training ideas come from.
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Its funny...people argue constantly about where the fuel for A.M. cardio comes from, but ultimately it doesnt matter. What matters is creating a calorie deficit...and that happens WHENEVER you do cardio. Better to do AFTER a meal, so as not to deplete glycigen stores too far to create a catabolic state.
The key to recovery is having replenished/full glycogen stores, low glycogen storage will put your body in a catabolic state. thats why its BREAK fast.
Its naive to think that low glycogen (not eating) stores makes your body burn fat as the prefered choice of fuel....then NOT eating at all will make sure that your body will only burn fat for fuel. Then, all those poor starving people in the desert are precontest gurus now!
The ETHIOPIAN Precontest diet!
your not going to burn bodyfat food in your body, or glycogen stores. the only way you will burn body fat is by making your body function with out these nutrient stores. then it will use itself for energy. that is the only way to lose body fat....to use it for energy.
heres a deductive argument to show you what i mean..
-the only way to lose bodyfat is by making your body use the bodyfat for energy.
-the only way your body will use bodyfat for energy is when it is asked to function when there are energy source alternatives(zero calories present, zero glycogen stores) other than body fat.
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ___
thus, the only way to lose bodyfat is by asking your body to function at a time when there is no other alternative source of energy other than body fat. (zero calories present, zero glycogen stores).
a caloric defecit diet achieves bodyfat loss only because it makes this state of no-other-available-energy-source occur by means of feeding your body less nutrients than it actually uses in a day. thus, there are times in the day when there are zero nutrients available, and ti must function off of itself. the same thing as in the morning, when you do cardio on an empty stomach.
you work so hard all day creating these small windows of 'starved cardio" when on a caloric defecit iet....why not take advantage of the morning starvation and burn up way more fat than you ever could during those small windows in the day.
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yes. a claorie defecit will allow you to burn fat. but how? because during a calorie defecit...there are periods during the day, or at night, when your body has to function on itself for energy. (burn fat). why does it have t use itself for energy? because you are giving it less calories in one day than it needs to operate...so all of the ingested calories from the day, or from the day SO FAR, have been used up. thus, your body is "starved", and because it is starved, it will use itself for energy.(burn fat). this is the result of a diet that has a caloric defecit. but in a diet with a caloric defecit...you are only forcing your bod to use itself for energy during short, spaced out intervals in the day. and oxidizing body fat takes about 20 mins. so in reality, a caloric defecits real fat loss happens at night, when your body is empty of all calories for hours on end. so the real goal of any dieter wanting to burn body fat is to get your body into a state where its using itself for energy, and the only way to do that is to empty it of any nutrients. a caloric defecit diets main gaol is to achieve this "starved state" several times throughout the day.
morning cardio is allowing for your to burn off hundreds of calories directly from your body. because in the morning, you have ZERO nutrients in your system. your making your body function on itself for energy.
So you are agreeing that a calorie deficit is necessary to burn fat, but .......doing cardio first thing in the morning will magically cause more calories to be burned from fat, forcing your body to burn fat for energy and preserving mass.....so if I could stand it, the best precontest diet would be 0 food, because my body/muscles will know that I am getting ready for a show and thus Ill be huge and shredded because Ill only lose muscle
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well were all turning up ripped and your just talking about it!
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So you are agreeing that a calorie deficit is necessary to burn fat, but .......doing cardio first thing in the morning will magically cause more calories to be burned from fat, forcing your body to burn fat for energy and preserving mass.....so if I could stand it, the best precontest diet would be 0 food, because my body/muscles will know that I am getting ready for a show and thus Ill be huge and shredded because Ill only lose muscle
nope. i never said that. your skills of argumentation are very poor.
i already stated that cardio done in the moring on an empty stomach gave you a mixture of both fat and muscle being burned.
your statement is so asssasanin that i shouldnt even respond. but i will.
a diet of zero food would result in a loss of both fat and muscle. a diet of pure fat would reult in a loss of pure fat. exceptif you were to damage muscle tissue while dieting, then you would lose that muscle tissue..because there owuld be zaero protein to fix it. so, as a weighlifter, damaging muscle tissue on a daily basis, the ideal diet would be a fats AND proteins. in a caloric defecit, with slightly more fat calories than protein calories. this would allow for all those caloric defecit gaps of "starved cardio" to be entirely burned body fat(because the body is already using fat for energy so its very easy for it to convert to body fat), and for your damged muscle tissues to get repaired by the protein...and for ZERO fat storage to take place. (a "well balanced" caloric defecit diet will still have fat storage taking place...because whenever there are free floating carbs in your system at least a small amount will be stored as fat, along with a small amount of fats...but in the end because its a caloric defecit you still end up lsoing more fat than you gain.)
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your not going to burn bodyfat food in your body, or glycogen stores. the only way you will burn body fat is by making your body function with out these nutrient stores. then it will use itself for energy. that is the only way to lose body fat....to use it for energy.
heres a deductive argument to show you what i mean..
-the only way to lose bodyfat is by making your body use the bodyfat for energy.
-the only way your body will use bodyfat for energy is when it is asked to function when there are energy source alternatives(zero calories present, zero glycogen stores) other than body fat.
________________________ ________________________ ________________________ ___
thus, the only way to lose bodyfat is by asking your body to function at a time when there is no other alternative source of energy other than body fat. (zero calories present, zero glycogen stores).
a caloric defecit diet achieves bodyfat loss only because it makes this state of no-other-available-energy-source occur by means of feeding your body less nutrients than it actually uses in a day. thus, there are times in the day when there are zero nutrients available, and ti must function off of itself. the same thing as in the morning, when you do cardio on an empty stomach.
you work so hard all day creating these small windows of 'starved cardio" when on a caloric defecit iet....why not take advantage of the morning starvation and burn up way more fat than you ever could during those small windows in the day.
by your thinking a starving person is burning nothing but fat...
the whole challenge of bodybuilding and precontest dieting is maintaining muscle and burning fat. Its about working with the human body's natural tendency to STORE fat and burn muscle. Biologically, your body has no use to be all muscle and no fat....
The human body changes constantly and is either in catabolic state or an anabolic state...upon waking a human being is in a catabolic state, and eating right away is the human animals main concern/instinct to halt this process
your "windows" theory is something Id never heard of before
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you are right, my skills of
ARGUMENTATION
are very poor. I therefore withdraw my participation in your otherwise extremely intelligent and thought provoking discussion.
I is going to the gym wif my bro Jerone, he be down wif your theory also .
Peace, out
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Wow, I am surprised on the lack of knowledge being thrown around here. Lets keep this simple.
The body takes all the carbs you eat and converts it to glucose, the more carbs you eat the more glycogen you will have in your muscle stores.
When you do cardio the body burns the glycogen into energy, so you have to burn a great deal of glycogen before you start burning fat.
In the morning, since you slept all night and haven't had any carbs then your glycogen stores are down to a minimum. When glycogen stores are down your body react by going into starvation mode.
When your body is in starvation mode then it produces ketones (state of ketosis).The ketones allow you to tap into your bodyfat in replacement for food and an alternative source of fuel. thus burning more fat per cardio session.
You can also burn more fat after a workout because your workout could have burned most of your glycogen. If you are scared to lose muscle then do a less intense cardio session. The more intense the session the more fuel you'll need at once and that might come in the form of muscle.
Hope this helps
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Wow, I am surprised on the lack of knowledge being thrown around here. Lets keep this simple.
The body takes all the carbs you eat and converts it to glucose, the more carbs you eat the more glycogen you will have in your muscle stores.
When you do cardio the body burns the glycogen into energy, so you have to burn a great deal of glycogen before you start burning fat.
In the morning, since you slept all night and haven't had any carbs then your glycogen stores are down to a minimum. When glycogen stores are down your body react by going into starvation mode.
When your body is in starvation mode then it produces ketones (state of ketosis).The ketones allow you to tap into your bodyfat in replacement for food and an alternative source of fuel. thus burning more fat per cardio session.
You can also burn more fat after a workout because your workout could have burned most of your glycogen. If you are scared to lose muscle then do a less intense cardio session. The more intense the session the more fuel you'll need at once and that might come in the form of muscle.
Hope this helps
It still comes down to total calories burned, smart guy. You wont burn any more calories before breakfast than after, show me that chart if you have it. Whether the calories come from fat, or glycogen, it doesnt matter. The trick is to get your body to burn fat exclusively, which is against its tendency.
You can get shredded without cardio, its ultimately about how much you take in versus your activity level.
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Wow, I am surprised on the lack of knowledge being thrown around here.
In the morning, since you slept all night and haven't had any carbs then your glycogen stores are down to a minimum. When glycogen stores are down your body react by going into starvation mode.
When your body is in starvation mode then it produces ketones (state of ketosis).The ketones allow you to tap into your bodyfat in replacement for food and an alternative source of fuel. thus burning more fat per cardio session.
you have no idea what ketosis is, do you?
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by your thinking a starving person is burning nothing but fat...
the whole challenge of bodybuilding and precontest dieting is maintaining muscle and burning fat. Its about working with the human body's natural tendency to STORE fat and burn muscle. Biologically, your body has no use to be all muscle and no fat....
The human body changes constantly and is either in catabolic state or an anabolic state...upon waking a human being is in a catabolic state, and eating right away is the human animals main concern/instinct to halt this process
your "windows" theory is something Id never heard of before
your a complete idiot. a starving person burns fat as well as muscle. and i neevr advocated starving. i advocated doing cardio in the mornig on a few grams of fats, actually. and this would cause your body to burn, after burning those few grams of fat, almost entirely body fat for the rest of that cardio. your body burns what you give it. if its burnign fat for fuel, and then there is no more fat in the blood stream, it will slip intoo burning fat from your body. only after a long stretch of cardiow ould it then delve into muscle tissue for energy.
its not a "windows theory". it is fact. the only time you burn body fat is when your body doesnt have any other option. your bodyw ill not use body fat when there are caolries present elsewhere. its during the times in the day when your functioning off of zero calories..."starved cardio"... that you are burning body fat. a caloric defecit diet is creating a bunch of little gaps where this occurs, or, it could be creating a few large ones. or, it could just be creating one massive gap during the night or day... but thats what it does, it creates a time when you are operating on zero calooires. and that is the only time you are losing body fat.
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to the bloke who claimed it made him stringy,,,, u never had the muscle you thought u had in the 1st place, most people thing there much bigger than what they are, look in the mirror and say, i could compete if i were 20lbs lighter, where in fact it would take more near 50lbs !!!
cardio morning and pm if you wanna get realy ripped,,,
Never ever said that I was huge at all, did I? You read into that one didn't ya? >:(
In the period I was referring to, I had done 8-10 weeks of regular cardio in the day after eating quite a few times, and doing it separate from weights (2 different sessions entirely). During this time I got much much leaner (measured near 6%) and only lost around 5lbs total from my starting weight.
Then I decided I would do empty stomach cardio to get in order to get to 5%. I ended up losing 10lb in 2 weeks (compared to 10 in the prior period), and I was measured at 5.5%.
You do the math, genius. ::) ::)
In the end, I agree with insidescoop....a calorie in vs. a calorie out is the basic equation...and empty stomach cardio doesn't exactly make you leaps and bounds better if you factor that into the calorie in vs. calorie out logic. ;)
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It still comes down to total calories burned, smart guy. You wont burn any more calories before breakfast than after, show me that chart if you have it. Whether the calories come from fat, or glycogen, it doesnt matter. The trick is to get your body to burn fat exclusively, which is against its tendency.
your a complete idiot!
before brekafast you are burning body fat(and a little bit of muscle, but you can make it be almost completely body fat by doing a few small things liek taking a gram or two of efa's). after breakfast you are burnign up....BREAKFAST!
if the trick is burnign body fat exclusively, and one cardio session burns fat, while the other burns ingested calories, then how does it not occur to you that the form of cardio that burns fat is the better option?
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It still comes down to total calories burned, smart guy. You wont burn any more calories before breakfast than after, show me that chart if you have it. Whether the calories come from fat, or glycogen, it doesnt matter. The trick is to get your body to burn fat exclusively, which is against its tendency.
You can get shredded without cardio, its ultimately about how much you take in versus your activity level.
So by your logic, it doesn't matter whether the calories burned are from amino acids in the blood, glycogen in the muscle or fat stored in adipose tissue.
The amount of calories burned in the AM may well be identical to the amount burned in the PM, but a larger % of them come from stored bodyfat because of:
1. Reduced glycogen stores
2. Lack of elevated insulin levels
3. Stored bodyfat being the immediate source of energy (assuming we're talking low-intensity cardio).
Your argument makes no sense.
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i do cardio in the morning.... simply causei got no time at night...i read a lot about it and ithas worked forme 35 minutes each morning....
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You can get shredded without cardio, its ultimately about how much you take in versus your activity level.
yes! this is true!
but do you know HOW you get shredded ithout doing cardio?
ill explain it to you...
lets say your a total couch potatoe. you la on the couch all day long and do nothing. so our daily caloric expenditure is goign to be low..lets say for you its 1700 calories. so in order to get shredded without changing your couch potatoe lifestyle, youll need to ingest less than 1700 calories in a day. that way...there will be a point in the day when your body still has a need for calories, but there are no calories present; so your body HAS to use itself for energy...and thus, you are doing, in essence, "starved cardio" for the remainder of your daily caloric expenditure needs. the greater the caloric defecit, the longer you will be in a mode of "starved cardio", whether its at just one point in the day, of whether there are several small gaps in the day.
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So by your logic, it doesn't matter whether the calories burned are from amino acids in the blood, glycogen in the muscle or fat stored in adipose tissue.
The amount of calories burned in the AM may well be identical to the amount burned in the PM, but a larger % of them come from stored bodyfat because of:
1. Reduced glycogen stores
2. Lack of elevated insulin levels
3. Stored bodyfat being the immediate source of energy (assuming we're talking low-intensity cardio).
Your argument makes no sense.
YES! correct! coem on guys...lets get soem more knowledgeable people in this thread to help crush these morning cardio nay-sayers once and for all.
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you have no idea what ketosis is, do you?
What are you a f...king grade 2 student . I am a competitive bodybuilder and I 've won shows and this garbage you've been throwing around is how they did in the 70's. Calorie deficit, ya OK amateur. You think when I am down to under 6 percent bodyfat your body won't be catabolic anyway, thats why you can't build muscle at that low body fat so being catabolic from low carbs is just a myth plus we have substances that will take care of that problem anyway. Toney Freeman eats only 50 grams of carbs a day during pre-contest, why, because he wants to be in the state of ketosis all the time for maximum fat burning. You know better then Ronnie, Dennis, Shawn ray Flex wheeler and our current mr. O Cutler, because if you watch there videos they all wake up at 5 to do cardio. Or maybe they just feel like doing cardio at that time?
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Doing cardio first thing shows a complete lack of common sense....in the end, its calories burned vs calories consumed....a.m cardio is a myth.
has anyone here seen a calorie chart that claimed MORE calories were burned for the same activity in the morning vs in the afternoon....no.....
take an already depleted precontest bodybuilder doing cardio on an empty stomach first thing in the morning will make that individual CATABOLIC as fast as you can blink.
Doing aerobics at such a time will force your body into even a brief "starvation" mode where it will burn muscle for both energy, and to conserve fat. Your body doesnt know you are going into a show and only wish to lose fat!
It may not hurt a BB who is "enhanced", but it could destroya natural one.
Think about it.
Dont believe the crap you read in the magazines
The moral of the story is make sure you're on the sauce before you get on the treadmill in the morning.
ALL DRUGS!!!
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in order to burn body fat you HAVE to be in a catabolic state. by definition. lol.
"you dont want to be in a catabolic state, but you want to burn fat"..ahahaha
hahahahahha...
hahahahaha
yeah okay. let me know how your "anabolic fat burning" works out...
hahahhahahaha
look up the words before you use them dumbasses
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So by your logic, it doesn't matter whether the calories burned are from amino acids in the blood, glycogen in the muscle or fat stored in adipose tissue.
The amount of calories burned in the AM may well be identical to the amount burned in the PM, but a larger % of them come from stored bodyfat because of:
1. Reduced glycogen stores
2. Lack of elevated insulin levels
3. Stored bodyfat being the immediate source of energy (assuming we're talking low-intensity cardio).
Your argument makes no sense.
My argument makes no sense?
All the points you made are correct...but you are assuming your bodys first priority is to burn fat and hold onto muscle (just take some EFA's!) it is not...thats why bodybuilding is a challenge...!
Going along with your argument, you burn fat before breakfast by creating the defecit/activity...what happens after...your body restores the glycogen, any excess calories are stored as fat( there is a calorie surplus)......the rub is if you dont eat enough calories to replace the glycogen, youll be depleted, overtrained and soon catabolic.
You are an example of someone whose education came from MuscleMag, and you've never stepped onstage and held a trophy. You are lost in the details, and cant comprehend the big picture.
Thats how you helped make supp company owners rich!
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Its funny...people argue constantly about where the fuel for A.M. cardio comes from, but ultimately it doesnt matter. What matters is creating a calorie deficit...and that happens WHENEVER you do cardio. Better to do AFTER a meal, so as not to deplete glycigen stores too far to create a catabolic state.
hahahahahahahahahahahaha
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YES! correct! coem on guys...lets get soem more knowledgeable people in this thread to help crush these morning cardio nay-sayers once and for all.
Really, it comes down to what works. Early morning cardio didn't work for me; in actuality it sucked more dicks than Adonis does daily.
I prefer slower cardio after weights. It works, it's efficient, and it's something that I tried after I've tried pretty much every other way out there (slow and long in the morning, HIIT in the morning, slow walking throughout the day, etc...). That is what works BEST for me.
Other than that, I won't battle someone and try to convert them if they really feel a different way works better for them. As long as they've tried all the different methods to justifiably say what works best for them.
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by your thinking a starving person is burning nothing but fat...
the whole challenge of bodybuilding and precontest dieting is maintaining muscle and burning fat. Its about working with the human body's natural tendency to STORE fat and burn muscle. Biologically, your body has no use to be all muscle and no fat....
The human body changes constantly and is either in catabolic state or an anabolic state...upon waking a human being is in a catabolic state, and eating right away is the human animals main concern/instinct to halt this process
your "windows" theory is something Id never heard of before
hahahahahahahahahahhahah
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Going along with your argument, you burn fat before breakfast by creating the defecit/activity...what happens after...your body restores the glycogen, any excess calories are stored as fat( there is a calorie surplus)......the rub is if you dont eat enough calories to replace the glycogen, youll be depleted, overtrained and soon catabolic.
thank you for proving our point!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Really, it comes down to what works. Early morning cardio didn't work for me; in actuality it sucked more dicks than Adonis does daily.
I prefer slower cardio after weights. It works, it's efficient, and it's something that I tried after I've tried pretty much every other way out there (slow and long in the morning, HIIT in the morning, slow walking throughout the day, etc...). That is what works BEST for me.
Other than that, I won't battle someone and try to convert them if they really feel a different way works better for them. As long as they've tried all the different methods to justifiably say what works best for them.
HEY MAN, WHATEVER WORKS; WORKS.
if you have found what works best for you, thats cool. do it.
i am only arguing with this guy because he is saying that the science is against it, not his own personal body or results. he is trying to influence other people... if he would just say "its not what works best for ME", i would say alright cool man. and i wouldnt be arguing with him...
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hahahahahahahahahahhahah
You didnt get me on that argumentation, buddy.
How many lifters on GETBIG want to be in a catabolic state precontest?!?!!? Everybody raise your hands!!!!!
You are a dumbass
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My argument makes no sense?
All the points you made are correct...but you are assuming your bodys first priority is to burn fat and hold onto muscle (just take some EFA's!) it is not...thats why bodybuilding is a challenge...!
Going along with your argument, you burn fat before breakfast by creating the defecit/activity...what happens after...your body restores the glycogen, any excess calories are stored as fat( there is a calorie surplus)......the rub is if you dont eat enough calories to replace the glycogen, youll be depleted, overtrained and soon catabolic.
You are an example of someone whose education came from MuscleMag, and you've never stepped onstage and held a trophy. You are lost in the details, and cant comprehend the big picture.
Thats how you helped make supp company owners rich!
You're right, of course. My weight class win last year at a National qualifier must have been all in my mind. Presonal attacks are the refuge of a weak mind. I never criticized you, just your argument.
My points did not assume that the body's natural propensity is to burn fat and store muscle, in fact it was quite the opposite. I was discussing a way to trick the body into doing something counter to design.
The feeding that occurs during the day has nothing to do with what I referenced. You can eat enough to replenish glycogen (IF you're not on a ketogenic diet) without adding fat.
And how, exactly, am I an example of a MuscleMag educated mind? That's pretty funny, considering I haven't bought that mag since high shcool. As for supplements: Whey, creatine, multi-vitamin, fish oil, and MSM.
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i am only arguing with this guy because he is saying that the science is against it,
Looks to me, that you're doing quite the same. ;)
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You didnt get me on that argumentation, buddy.
How many lifters on GETBIG want to be in a catabolic state precontest?!?!!? Everybody raise your hands!!!!!
You are a dumbass
Eating enough healthy fats & proteins will help guard against this. You can burn fat on minimal carbs, while preserving muscle, if you're eating the right balance of pro-fat.
Ultimately, a person should do what works for them. But by no means would I dismiss something outright, especially when it has worked for so many people.
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Forget catabolic state you morons, thats your excuse to walk around with a 40 inch waist. The candid said best
MORNING CARDIO = FAT BURNING
AFTERNOON CARDIO = INGESTED CALORIE BURNING
Dieting is hard, so hard that you go crazy at times, ask any bodybuilder. So consider this do cardio empty stomach then eat and the calories you bring in won't make you sluggish throughout your day and you'll burne them anyway.
Or eat first then do cardio, burn what you ate then since you have no more fuel in you feel like like shit for the rest of the day, ya vary smart stupid
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You didnt get me on that argumentation, buddy.
How many lifters on GETBIG want to be in a catabolic state precontest?!?!!? Everybody raise your hands!!!!!
You are a dumbass
hahaha. okay...
if you want to be anabolic; go right ahead. being anabolic means muscle growth. awesome. but we are talking about fat loss. you cannot be anabolic and lose fat. its a contradiction of terms. you HAVE to be catabolic to be burning fat. by definition. you are confusing CATABOLISM, with muscular catabolism! there is two kind of catabolism....fat catabolism, and muscle catabolism. what you have to do is keep yourself in a state of fat tissue catabolism.
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Looks to me, that you're doing quite the same. ;)
that is because i know what im taking about. i am correct. he is incorrect. i have a responsibilty to make sure that all of the readers of this thread walk away with the correct knowledge...that the a.m. cardio side of the argument is the clear winner.
i should be awarded a medal for this shit.
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I think most people here don't realize that the body VERY seldom burn fat only. Most of the time fat is being burned together with glycogen and creating a synergistic effect. And my opinion is that calorie deficit is the only thing that matters in the end.
BTW Onetimehard, wtf does it matter if the calories burned are from the body or from newly digested food? They all are calories and need to be burned one way or the other and they do get burned if your on a calorie deficit diet. Simple physics: More energy burned than consumed=loss of mass.
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You didnt get me on that argumentation, buddy.
How many lifters on GETBIG want to be in a catabolic state precontest?!?!!? Everybody raise your hands!!!!!
You are a dumbass
You are so stupid, and your taking this catabolic state thing way to serious. Its called ECA, Clen, T4, AAS and high protein diet. Want to play the game thats the price you pay to be shredded. I can take zero carbs and not hit catabolic state. If you worried about losing a little bit of muscle then your completely don't know what your talking about because thats the least of anybody's worries, your main concern should be if you have the balls to do this, because its not a walk in the park, no carbs, morning cardio is only for the strong
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WEll looks like morning cardio wins again. sorry about the anger insidescope but you drew first
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WEll looks like morning cardio wins again. sorry about the anger insidescope but you drew first
Well....how do you come up with that?
I "drew" first...duh huh.......
Do cardio in the morning you dumbass, who cares?
Ive been arguing with a dumb guido and some ignorant black guy......
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a dumb guido and an ignorant black guy....
i guess he leaves me out of the equation because he knows my arguments destroyed his.
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a dumb guido and an ignorant black guy....
i guess he leaves me out of the equation because he knows my arguments destroyed his.
Yeah, your argumentations wuz much more intelygenz.
Fucking moron
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Yeah, your argumentations wuz much more intelygenz.
Fucking moron
hahah. i love how the whole time you were trying to debate me the only points you made that were valid had to do with my spelling and grammar.
way to side step and attack semantics.
actually, in and of that fact; you acually d have decent debate skills. ... diverting attention from a losing argument. that is slightly above amature level. ill give you some slight props on that.
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http://www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/archive/index.php/t-4105.html
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=437613
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4017043
hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahah
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http://www.proactivehealthnet.com/healthBB/archive/index.php/t-4105.html
http://www.sherdog.net/forums/showthread.php?t=437613
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=4017043
hahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahah
yes i think their ignorance of sports nutrition and physiology are quite amusing as well.
:D
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bob chick (and most other pros) swear by 45-hour of really slow cardio ...on bb.com its been debated for more then 10+ pages...and chick even claims its beneficial for natural athletes
he had a good article on it
anyways layne, leafy_bug, and other naturals claim that HIIT cardio is the most efficient way for naturals to loose fat
how many naturals use the slow cardio method?
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bob chick (and most other pros) swear by 45-hour of really slow cardio ...on bb.com its been debated for more then 10+ pages...and chick even claims its beneficial for natural athletes
he had a good article on it
anyways layne, leafy_bug, and other naturals claim that HIIT cardio is the most efficient way for naturals to loose fat
how many naturals use the slow cardio method?
visit golds venice and you wont see ANY of the pros doing hi intensity cardio......it almost seems leisurely.
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I know what works best for me and for my wife, and that is with out a doubt A.M. cardio (45 mins.) on an empty stomach. We also do a P.M. cardio session (30 mins.) before bed. Many seem to over train during cardio and lose muscle as well, I just get my heart rate up to get the fat burning process going.
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I'm having a discussion with a gymmate about this and I think it's bad for the metabolism, and that you'd burn muscle first thing in the AM.
He says it's great cause it burns fat stores or seomthing.
Who is right? Should you have breakfast before cardio? Why/Why not? thanks!
A.M. low intensity on empty stomach is debatable . . .
Do HIIT cardio and stop wasting your time doing low intensity. . .
Doing low intensity cardio trains your body to store fat more easily. . .ie. if you are using your emergency fat stores, your body will then try to replace them at the earliest possible time. . .a simplistic explanation but anyway:)
The KEY is diet. . . .and always will be.
You said you have a trainer. .if this is for motivation, that is great. . .but don't expect to learn anything from a "regular" pt. .which most of them are. . . .:)
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visit golds venice and you wont see ANY of the pros doing hi intensity cardio......it almost seems leisurely.
visit golds venice and you wont see ANY of the pros doing hi intensity cardio......it almost seems leisurely.
ya but they all use some sort of juice...but bob claims that its the most efficient way even for naturals
him and layne had a slow cardio vs HIIT war for a while on bb.com
heres bobs article
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bobchic3.htm
heres the layne vs chick war...its kinda funny..meltdowns everywhere
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=233400&highlight=slow+cardio