Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: HowieW on October 25, 2007, 08:15:01 PM
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Why not come out with this press release:
In an attempt to make bodybuilding achieve more universal appeal, the IFBB Pro Div, will begin to implement stringent ,consistant drug testing and judging standards. As was previously started by Mr Jim Manion,( the belly ban edict), we will judge with an EQUAL emphasis on shape, balance , conditioning, definition ,presentation and mass.
Sheer mass will no longer be the main criteria for winning a pro show. WE will judge the contest as a physique rather than size freak event. In addition to this we have keen desire to make bodybuilding the ideal image of health and fitness. We will no longer allow banned substances such as steroids or diuretics.
While some may sneak past the testing protocols, we will stem the tide of drug abuse that has been a sad part of our sport .
I urge the pro bodybuilders to embrace this change . No longer will you have you risk your health by feeling the preasure to use dangerous drugs or endure unhealthy precontest regimes. You will no longer have to risk taking illegal drugs and the cost that goes with it. It is my sincere hope that this will lead to a more positive image and attract more sponsers and TV coverage.This will lead to a larger fan base, universal respect and more earnings as a result.
I ask the fans to also support us during this change. We will do our best to make IFBB pro shows a top notch production . WE will do our best to judge the events in a fair and objective manner. To help inspire more confidence in you, the fans, we will post the placements and scores , similar to what is done in gymnastics and figure skating, as the bodybuilders are judged. I can't put enough emphasis on the support of you, the fans ,at this time. Togther, we can all pull together to make bodybuilding the healthy , universal sport is was meant to be.
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sounds good but... will never happen!!!
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sounds good but... will never happen!!!
LOL, yeah I know. Seriously , is there anything wrong or bad for bodybuilding in what I suggest?
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LOL, yeah I know. Seriously , is there anything wrong or bad for bodybuilding in what I suggest?
FWIW, I think you've got some great ideas.
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FWIW, I think you've got some great ideas.
Thanks! I would sincerely love to see pros not have to use drugs, be really healthy and the ideal spokesmen for the gym and fitness boom.
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The last press release bodybuilding had was regarding Craig Titus and the love of his life, Kelly Ryan.
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The last press release bodybuilding had was regarding Craig Titus and the love of his life, Kelly Ryan.
Don't remind me.... ::)
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I'm okay if they use drugs.
Look at Jay looking all Coked up here:
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Why not come out with this press release:
In an attempt to make bodybuilding achieve more universal appeal, the IFBB Pro Div, will begin to implement stringent ,consistant drug testing and judging standards. As was previously started by Mr Jim Manion,( the belly ban edict), we will judge with an EQUAL emphasis on shape, balance , conditioning, definition ,presentation and mass.
Sheer mass will no longer be the main criteria for winning a pro show. WE will judge the contest as a physique rather than size freak event. In addition to this we have keen desire to make bodybuilding the ideal image of health and fitness. We will no longer allow banned substances such as steroids or diuretics.
While some may sneak past the testing protocols, we will stem the tide of drug abuse that has been a sad part of our sport .
I urge the pro bodybuilders to embrace this change . No longer will you have you risk your health by feeling the preasure to use dangerous drugs or endure unhealthy precontest regimes. You will no longer have to risk taking illegal drugs and the cost that goes with it. It is my sincere hope that this will lead to a more positive image and attract more sponsers and TV coverage.This will lead to a larger fan base, universal respect and more earnings as a result.
I ask the fans to also support us during this change. We will do our best to make IFBB pro shows a top notch production . WE will do our best to judge the events in a fair and objective manner. To help inspire more confidence in you, the fans, we will post the placements and scores , similar to what is done in gymnastics and figure skating, as the bodybuilders are judged. I can't put enough emphasis on the support of you, the fans ,at this time. Togther, we can all pull together to make bodybuilding the healthy , universal sport is was meant to be.
Howie...
We've had this discussion before my friend....bottom line is, athletes will always find a way to gain an advantage...in ALL sports.
Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best? Fans dictate what they will support, and what they won't...the fans have spoken a looooong time ago on what they want to see...freaky muscle without the guts...plain and simple.
No one supported the scab baseball players back in the MLB strike days, the USFL, XFL, or anything else that was "mediocre"....and their not willing to pay for it either....
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Howie I see you remain fundamentally confused when it comes to bodybuilding. :-\
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Howie...
We've had this discussion before my friend....bottom line is, athletes will always find a way to gain an advantage...in ALL sports.
Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best? Fans dictate what they will support, and what they won't...the fans have spoken a looooong time ago on what they want to see...freaky muscle without the guts...plain and simple.
No one supported the scab baseball players back in the MLB strike days, the USFL, XFL, or anything else that was "mediocre"....and their not willing to pay for it either....
Chic, thanks so much for having the integrity to post a well thought reply to this controversial topic.
As you know I fully respect your ideas and feel you are an ideal MC and spokeman for our sport.
I sincerely think that if the best and biggest bodybuilding organization made a valid attempt to do what I outlined in the above hyothetical press release , it would work and bodybuildning would explode as a sport.
Consider how many gyms there are now compared to when we both first started? INCREDIBLE growth!
I think the sport could tap into that if and only if it was more in line with real , genuine fitness and physiues that were big and ripped but NOT unreal aka drugged....just my 2 cents.
>:(Of course, as I have said before, my ideas might just sound good and not be practical or even good for business.
Thanks for being candid , I will continue to support and enjoy pro bodybuilding , REGARDLESS of the drug policy or judging, etc. We are both intelligent men that love bodybuilding , so we will have to agree to disagree on this issue.
All the best, Howard
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Howie...
We've had this discussion before my friend....bottom line is, athletes will always find a way to gain an advantage...in ALL sports.
Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best? Fans dictate what they will support, and what they won't...the fans have spoken a looooong time ago on what they want to see...freaky muscle without the guts...plain and simple.
No one supported the scab baseball players back in the MLB strike days, the USFL, XFL, or anything else that was "mediocre"....and their not willing to pay for it either....
I agree completely. The fans have basically encouraged the freak show so that's become the norm.
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Drugs are bad, I keep saying that.
Look at this pic of Jay. His blood pressure looks thru the roof here!
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1990 Mr. Olympia was drug tested. Attendance went down. 1991 Mr. Olympia wasn't drug tested.
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Echoing what Bob chick said. If natural would draw, it would be drawing. NPC shows that I have attended (and competed) for the last 13 years have better attendance that the natural shows in which I have competed and attended.
Howie, your intentions are good, if a bit naiive. I would like to see at least less insulin and gh so we can return to the physiques of the late 80s & early to mid 90s. But if you are so anti-drug, what's with the avatar? Just asking.
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I completely agree with Howie. As long as steroids and questionable judging are attached to Pro Bodybuilding, the sport will never grow.
Most people look at bodybuilding like they look at the WWE. There is no real sport involved. The health/injury risk prevent a lot of the top young talent from seriously pursuing a career in bodybuilding. So your left with a show that is mildly entertaining with mediocre talent.
As for why do the natural shows have poor turn out? Because they are currently viewed as the minor leagues. A lot of people love baseball, but very few single A teams draw much attendance.
The current fan base is the 1 percenters. You could very possibly lose the 1 percenters if you remove steroids. But its the only chance to attract a portion of the other 99%. People like to fantasize about emulating their sports hero's. The naturally unobtainable physiques we currently see rob people of this fantasy. Therefore, there is little interest in the sport.
I understand the IFBB is not ready to make this transition yet, but I hope they will be some time in the future.
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How would fans react to being bigger than the guys on stage? because that is the gist of it. You can say let's all be natural! but there has and always will be guys who enjoy bodybuilding and use gear but don't compete, like a lot of you guys who post here. Are you really going to pay or take time to see a show of natural guys who you outsize completely? Are you going to support a Mr Olympia who takes away a $100,000 pay check yet couldn't come close to hanging with you in the gym??
And with drug testing how will it be done? seriously are they going to get piss and blood samples from guys all over the world and test them in one central lab? or different labs? will it be IOC drug reg or some other type? Will athletes consent to blood testing (the only known way to test for external GH use right now and even that test isn't 100% accurate) as it is highly controversial to take someones DNA. What about insulin? how can they monitor that? The cost and size of the operation is too great especially for a sport that only has a niche market right now.
Also i agree with Chick guys will always find an edge, always, they could implement drug testing tomorrow but fact is unless it is year round guys will ALWAYS be on gear or some form of external illegal substance to help them be better than an opponent. If the Olympics can't get drug testing right and that is a billion dollar world wide mass market enterprise what hope does bodybuilding?
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According to Chick, since people are going to drink and drive we should make it legal to do so. Hell people are going to want to do drugs, let them. Child molesters..well chick seems to think that they will always want to abuse some children so why dont we just let them free on a school playground. Nukes? well countries are going to want nuculear weapons, just give it to them. Why put any stop to any behaviors that people are going to want to do, they will do it anyways...
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Howie....what I would like to see is aesthetics and symmetry for ALL shows and not just the smaller ones
At the "O" it's always the freakiest....I would love to see a smaller guy like the Toney's, Darrems etc but just aint gonna happen
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People should ask themselves why the National amateur shows are always so exciting and well attended compared with pro shows. It is supposed to be the other way around.
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Do you REALLY believe the fans will embrace natural physiques? If that be the case, why do the natural shows always have a smattering of fans attending at best?
If the IFBB drug tested, they would still have the best physiques in the world. You can't use physiques from current natural organizations as the benchmark to what's achievable. Fan attendance is low at natural contests, because they have B League bodybuilders. If the IFBB was drug tested, a lot of the guys would still look good. For every fan lost, there would be another gained because of the testing.
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Echoing what Bob chick said. If natural would draw, it would be drawing. NPC shows that I have attended (and competed) for the last 13 years have better attendance that the natural shows in which I have competed and attended.
Howie, your intentions are good, if a bit naiive. I would like to see at least less insulin and gh so we can return to the physiques of the late 80s & early to mid 90s. But if you are so anti-drug, what's with the avatar? Just asking.
The avatar is of Titus as is my signature motto " Kelly Ryan married well" and is a JOKE , nothing more.
Ween Tang and some others here understand my main ideas do NOT stem from being anti drug or 100% against steroids or concern over perfect drug testing would be, etc.
1. I am concerned with the LEGAL aspects of drug use . I am a core libertarien and don't think the government should tell me or anyone else what they can or can't put in their own body. I don't make the laws and like it or not, most of the extreme drug use is against the current US drug laws. A pro bodybuilder just can't tell a judge or DEA agent to mind their own business if they get caught with drugs. One thing we can agree on is that this behavior is against the actual law. To sit by and ignore it is to keep ones head in the sand.
2. I am also puzzled as to why a top pro would subject themselves to the health risks and financial hardships that the current bodybuilding drug use requires. Basic logic dictates that not having to take all those bodybuilding related drugs in extreme amounts would be a lot more healthy for a pros physical and financial health.
Doesn't it make a lot more sense to have healthy pros. Pro bodybuilders that woud NOT have to spend thousands on "supplements" to compete.
3. Everyone and his brother now knows about steroids. It is no longer a dirty little secret in bodybuilding and strength circles. Bob Chic feels that fans wants to see the best , the biggest, the fastest, which is true. While I am in 100% agreement with that, I don't think fans admire those same athletes when they learn they use steroids.
I think it s fair to say that Barry Bonds HR record is tarnished and not held in the same high regard as Henry Aaron or Babe Ruth. Fans want to see the best, no question, but when they cheat and break rules to do it, most fans won't accept that. The ironic thing is that while other sports look at steroids as a bad thing , bodybuilding encourages the use of drugs and acts like NOT useing is retarded.
4. Going to a gym, working out and trying to look better and stay healthy is fairly common and mainstream these days. As was already pointed out the reg folks out number the hardcore extreme bunch many times over.
My ideas would change the sport , that is for sure and many of the hardcore crowd would protest. Bob Chic and others that share my same passion for bodybuilding may agree with him. Bob and these folks know that such a drastic change would be a huge risk. I understand and accept that as a reason for the IFBB not to change .
At least the sport will survive as it is, for better or worse.
I know I intend to go to IFBB pro events and support bodybuilding , no matter what drug policy standards they choose to use.
Thanks again to all those that gave a thoughtful reply, regardless if you agree/disagree with me.
Howard
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If the IFBB drug tested, they would still have the best physiques in the world. You can't use physiques from current natural organizations as the benchmark to what's achievable. Fan attendance is low at natural contests, because they have B League bodybuilders. If the IFBB was drug tested, a lot of the guys would still look good. For every fan lost, there would be another gained because of the testing.
Exactly what the reality is. Of course this would end the 'drugs will make you Mr Olympia myth' .
So many guys are in denial that without the genetics and drive to be a champ, all the drugs in the world won't make it happen.
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WHY DOES IT MATTER THEY LET BILLY AN DVINNY POSEDOWN AND DISGRACE THE BODYBUILDING WORLD AT THE BIGGEST EVENT FOR BODYBUILDING
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What Bob said is right on the money...to echo, look at the lack of success "natural" organizations have.
However Howie, I do agree that some of the drug use is out of hand and is dangerous for some of the competitors considering the limits they push their drug use to...especially when we're talking about what many do right before a comp.
Even so, although everything you said sounds nice on paper, it's just not plausible. We're talking about "pro-bodybuilding" and people want to see "Pro's" big guys who are beyond what the average guy can obtain himself.
This is not to knock what you said, but what you're asking for seems to be a stage of basically male fitness models. Anyone who leans out enough is going to display some level of muscle, they're going to appear healthy and in shape...anyone can do this. But to be able to do it (lean out) and still display mountains of muscle, this is one of the biggest things that separate pro's from the rest of the gym rats.
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What Bob said is right on the money...to echo, look at the lack of success "natural" organizations have.
However Howie, I do agree that some of the drug use is out of hand and is dangerous for some of the competitors considering the limits they push their drug use to...especially when we're talking about what many do right before a comp.
Even so, although everything you said sounds nice on paper, it's just not plausible. We're talking about "pro-bodybuilding" and people want to see "Pro's" big guys who are beyond what the average guy can obtain himself.
This is not to knock what you said, but what you're asking for seems to be a stage of basically male fitness models. Anyone who leans out enough is going to display some level of muscle, they're going to appear healthy and in shape...anyone can do this. But to be able to do it (lean out) and still display mountains of muscle, this is one of the biggest things that separate pro's from the rest of the gym rats.
Believe it or not I agree with what Bob Chic has said about the reality of what makes a pro bodybuilding show a reasonable success aat present. I think the sport can and should go in a new direction, one NOT directed to the gym rats but , the mainstream gym goer.
Few seem to remember that when George Butler wanted to get financial backing for Pumping Iron, he had Arnold and Zane pose on revolving platforms at the Brooklyn Arts Acadamy. Many had no idea about bodybuilding, but wanted to back it then and there. It came off more like a a physique as living work of art.
I don't want glorified male fitness models either. I know for a fact that a guy that is mostly clean can develop an impressive physique with decent size, if they have the genetic gifts .
The idea that a bodybuilder has to take large amounts of drugs to have bigger than a 16" arm is bullpucky.
In my opinion, an IFBB drug tested pro event , run like the Olympia or ASC would be an incredible success and open the door to a whole new world. Granted some of the hardcore crowd woould leave , but I bet they would be replaced 10 fold by new fans, who never paid attention to the current mass freaks.
The current status quo is fine with me. I just hate seeing the pros I admire taking such crazy risks with their health and freedom or reputations. I can't help but think, that down deep , no sensible pro bodybuilder wants to take such risks with their health by doing the crazy amount of drugs they now are required to use to compete .
Wouldn't it be a lot better for the pros, if they didn't have to send the money and deal with all the drug related hassles they now must endure.
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note- I am a muscle head and have been in and around bodybuilding for 3 decades now.
However, when I think aout how far out of touch my ideals are with the real world of modern bodybuilding, it makes me wonder why do I bother ... yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh
I think I would be better off by snorkeling more and thinking about bodybuilding less hehe
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Believe it or not I agree with what Bob Chic has said about the reality of what makes a pro bodybuilding show a reasonable success aat present. I think the sport can and should go in a new direction, one NOT directed to the gym rats but , the mainstream gym goer.
Few seem to remember that when George Butler wanted to get financial backing for Pumping Iron, he had Arnold and Zane pose on revolving platforms at the Brooklyn Arts Acadamy. Many had no idea about bodybuilding, but wanted to back it then and there. It came off more like a a physique as living work of art.
I don't want glorified male fitness models either. I know for a fact that a guy that is mostly clean can develop an impressive physique with decent size, if they have the genetic gifts .
The idea that a bodybuilder has to take large amounts of drugs to have bigger than a 16" arm is bullpucky.
In my opinion, an IFBB drug tested pro event , run like the Olympia or ASC would be an incredible success and open the door to a whole new world. Granted some of the hardcore crowd woould leave , but I bet they would be replaced 10 fold by new fans, who never paid attention to the current mass freaks.
The current status quo is fine with me. I just hate seeing the pros I admire taking such crazy risks with their health and freedom or reputations. I can't help but think, that down deep , no sensible pro bodybuilder wants to take such risks with their health by doing the crazy amount of drugs they now are required to use to compete .
Wouldn't it be a lot better for the pros, if they didn't have to send the money and deal with all the drug related hassles they now must endure.
I understand what you're saying, but to get the caliber BB that competes in todays IFBB to compete in a tested show would be imposable...it would be like asking a top notch football player to forgo his NFL opportunity and join the CFL instead.
I also understand that everything you're saying is really just hypothetical, simply what you'd like to see, but you understand that it's not really a reality.
To reiterate, I do hate the fact that so many BB inevitably take risk with their health for compitions sake, and I say this as someone who themselves is very much Pro-AAS. I'm a big advocate for proper and safe performance drug use.
But when it comes to the "fan base" and the idea of drawing in more fans to the sport, I honestly do not believe that the main issue is the drug element of the sport. I believe that a lot of it comes down to two things, markability and perception.
Take for instance the NFL. It has surpassed pro baseball as the national past time, yet you'd be hard pressed to find one single NFL team that doesn't have the majority of its players using these very same drugs as pro-BB...but the fans simply turn a blind eye. Sure, you hear of athletes all the time who are put under fire for drug use, but they are picked out of the pile simply for a "media friendly" example and are used for an ulterior agenda. These athletes are then crucified all over the media circuit, therefore causing the fan to be left disillusioned to the fact that this athletes team members are more then likely doing the exact same thing...it's the perception the media desires to protray...just ask Sports Illustrated writer Rick Reilly....he's been known to write some of the most biased and blatant lying articles on drug use in all of sports media.
The key for pro-BB is to market BB's in a more positive light, therefore changing the general publics perception of the athletes on stage. For years this has been a problem, and it's still a problem but I do believe many steps have and are being taken to remedy this...but there is still much to be done. But the biggest factor into insuring that this happens to the fullest measure plausible, has got to come from within BB itself...between the athletes and those in charge of pro-BB. Right now, there are too many internal wars being waged, too much needless bickering that only harms the sport as a whole. There are individuals on both sides that fingers can be pointed at, but that's not really the point. Yet the structure does need to evolve in a positive manner if progress is ever to be made in a serious stride.
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Great pts here and what is ironic is that I have lost most of my interest in Pro team sports the last few years. What many guys seem to prefer in sports, I disagree with in terms of my ideals and objectives.
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I understand what you're saying, but to get the caliber BB that competes in todays IFBB to compete in a tested show would be imposable...it would be like asking a top notch football player to forgo his NFL opportunity and join the CFL instead.
I also understand that everything you're saying is really just hypothetical, simply what you'd like to see, but you understand that it's not really a reality.
To reiterate, I do hate the fact that so many BB inevitably take risk with their health for compitions sake, and I say this as someone who themselves is very much Pro-AAS. I'm a big advocate for proper and safe performance drug use.
But when it comes to the "fan base" and the idea of drawing in more fans to the sport, I honestly do not believe that the main issue is the drug element of the sport. I believe that a lot of it comes down to two things, markability and perception.
Take for instance the NFL. It has surpassed pro baseball as the national past time, yet you'd be hard pressed to find one single NFL team that doesn't have the majority of its players using these very same drugs as pro-BB...but the fans simply turn a blind eye. Sure, you hear of athletes all the time who are put under fire for drug use, but they are picked out of the pile simply for a "media friendly" example and are used for an ulterior agenda. These athletes are then crucified all over the media circuit, therefore causing the fan to be left disillusioned to the fact that this athletes team members are more then likely doing the exact same thing...it's the perception the media desires to protray...just ask Sports Illustrated writer Rick Reilly....he's been known to write some of the most biased and blatant lying articles on drug use in all of sports media.
The key for pro-BB is to market BB's in a more positive light, therefore changing the general publics perception of the athletes on stage. For years this has been a problem, and it's still a problem but I do believe many steps have and are being taken to remedy this...but there is still much to be done. But the biggest factor into insuring that this happens to the fullest measure plausible, has got to come from within BB itself...between the athletes and those in charge of pro-BB. Right now, there are too many internal wars being waged, too much needless bickering that only harms the sport as a whole. There are individuals on both sides that fingers can be pointed at, but that's not really the point. Yet the structure does need to evolve in a positive manner if progress is ever to be made in a serious stride.
Do you think a strict adherence to the Manion "belly ban" edict would help?
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There are many issues here and not a single one.
There are ethical issues. Should illegal drugs be allowed in professional bodybuilding. Should there be testing and disqualifications and banning? Should Synthol be allowed? Should breast enlargements be allowed? Should women have equality in contests and prize money? Should bodybuilders be allowed to compete where they like?
There are aesthetic issues. Should big guts be allowed? Should symmetry and aesthetics count more in contests? Should females be allowed to augment size to compensate for breast loss?
There are financial issues. What kinds of contests draw more money? How can promoters make the most money? Which professionals are marketable? Does women's bodybuilding pay?
Then there are IFBB issues. What rules do they enforce and which do they overlook? Who is the athletes rep and how is he determined? Who gets elected to run the professional division? Etc., etc.
There are health and fitness issues. Are steroids and other drugs dangerous to health? What are the long-term effects of drug use? Should women take male hormones? Should chemicals be injected into muscles to increase size? Does heavy mass affect health?
Then there are athletes issues. What do the athletes think and want? Should there be contracts? Should prize money be increased? Should there be testing.
Finally there are fan issues. What do the fans want? Should the fan base be enlarged? Should fans have a say in this sport?
Oh, I forgot, there are issues re Chick. What he determines will be what happens in the sport. That is, if he isn't convinced then nothing will change. If he is convinced he will say it is a good idea and sweep it under the carpet.
Rule 1 in the IFBB. Obey the directions of your superiors. All other rules see Rule 1.
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If the IFBB drug tested, they would still have the best physiques in the world. You can't use physiques from current natural organizations as the benchmark to what's achievable. Fan attendance is low at natural contests, because they have B League bodybuilders. If the IFBB was drug tested, a lot of the guys would still look good. For every fan lost, there would be another gained because of the testing.
I don't think any IFBB Pro's would have made it to that level without drugs. I also don't agree the fans would still be there, kind of like watching amateur Drag racing after seeing the Top Fuel Funny Cars, Boring !
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Exactly what the reality is. Of course this would end the 'drugs will make you Mr Olympia myth' .
So many guys are in denial that without the genetics and drive to be a champ, all the drugs in the world won't make it happen.
dude, they can't now. it may have been possible in the 1960s or 1970s when mr olympia was 235, but if they went drug testing now two things would happen.
1) every single ifbb pro would be gone until the time limit of how long you have to be "clean" was up.
2) mr olympia would be minimum 80 pounds lighter than he is now.
if arnold was mr olympia and then the next guy was 205, they could just say that they're going for "shape over size" and that's why, but when the entire olympia crop is 60+ pounds lighter than it's been in 10 years, that casts such an awful shadow over pretty much every IFBB contest that's ever happened.
testing all the athletes and watching them shrink down would prove irrefutably just how much drugs play a part. as it stands they can at least go for innocence by degree, that it's "not as much as you'd think". but when lee haney's 240, dorian's 260, ronnie's between 250 and 290, jay's over 270, and the next guy is 195? now everyone in the "non-tested" era is tainted.
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Do you think a strict adherence to the Manion "belly ban" edict would help?
Maybe, but I don't see that as being as big of a flaw in the sport as many do. I agree, big "bellies" flopping over posing trunks, of course this is bad...protruding midsection (slightly) because ones abs have become so thick, just like the rest of the physique, this is totally differant...of course there is a fine line as to what is still and should be acceptable IMO.
Again, I still believe that marketing the BB in a positive light and manner is the ultimate key. Change the perception of the sport by means of allure and then you've got something. Think about it, if some of those fat slobs in the WWE can be made into superstars and viewed as "muscle kings" then it should be a simple task to do the same in pro-BB.