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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: biceps on November 07, 2007, 08:17:47 PM
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This is not for the average getbigers.
1.You will need a good Smith machine.
2. The Delczeg system require tow spotter, the job of the spotters is not to lift the weight for you. They should never touch the bar or assist you with forced reps. The purpose of the spotters to manipulate the weight by reducing the total during the positive portion of the rep and increasing the weight during the negative portion of the rep.
This method allows the heaviest possible weights to be used during the negative portion of each rep while also allowing the lifter to complete the positive portion of each rep without help. The spotters simply remove weight at the bottom of each rep and add it at the top of each rep. They should never touch the bar unless the lifter gets stuck at the bottom and can`t move the weight at all.
Example for squats:
I perform 4 strict ,full repetition with 455 lbs , so I begin my squat in a slow , strict , fluid and continuous motion, until you have completed 4 repetitions.
Without resting, I begin my 5th repetition. When my ass almost touch the ground a spotter on either side of the bar will remove the incremental weight 90 lbs ( 45 lbs each side of the bar) continue to stand up with 365 lbs. While in the standing position, my training partners quickly add the the incremental weight back to the bar (90lbs) and I begin your 6th repetition. In other words, after 5 repetitions, the negative portion of the movement will be done with full weight, while the positive portion will be pressed at the original weight. I`ll continue stripping and addind the incremental weight, until I have completed a total of 10 repetitions. This is how negatives are used effectively to penetrate every fiber within the leg.
I`ll take 5 minutes rest period between sets.
This is not for the average getbigers.
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If you decide to try this system and to be most effective, all 3 training partners must work as a team to complete their own reps and then quickly assist each other as spotters. With practice , your training team will become efficient. However, each partner should never rush through their actual set. The performance of reps should be controlled and deliberate. Never sacrifice the quality of each set. After all, that`s where muscle growth and strength increases are accomplished.
You see, traditional negative training might may be ineffective after all. That`s because during regular negative training the a training partner must involve himself to get the weight back to a point of stability. At this point a portion of the motor units(fiber and nerve connections) involved, shut off and the effectiveness of the negative repetition is significantly reduced. With this system, the effectiveness of the negative portion of the movement is what will cause you to gain more muscle in less time!
This system can be used for every body part and can be repeated every 7 day.
Also a special hight protein diet is necessary.
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good stuff man, you must be pretty big, post a picture.
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Far too long to read.
Please condense down to no more than 3 lines and repost.
Thanks in advance.
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Here's what I do: Squats ~ up and down with weights on the bar
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This is not for the average getbigers.
1.You will need a good Smith machine.
2. The Delczeg system require tow spotter, the job of the spotters is not to lift the weight for you. They should never touch the bar or assist you with forced reps. The purpose of the spotters to manipulate the weight by reducing the total during the positive portion of the rep and increasing the weight during the negative portion of the rep.
This method allows the heaviest possible weights to be used during the negative portion of each rep while also allowing the lifter to complete the positive portion of each rep without help. The spotters simply remove weight at the bottom of each rep and add it at the top of each rep. They should never touch the bar unless the lifter gets stuck at the bottom and can`t move the weight at all.
Example for squats:
I perform 4 strict ,full repetition with 455 lbs , so I begin my squat in a slow , strict , fluid and continuous motion, until you have completed 4 repetitions.
Without resting, I begin my 5th repetition. When my ass almost touch the ground a spotter on either side of the bar will remove the incremental weight 90 lbs ( 45 lbs each side of the bar) continue to stand up with 365 lbs. While in the standing position, my training partners quickly add the the incremental weight back to the bar (90lbs) and I begin your 6th repetition. In other words, after 5 repetitions, the negative portion of the movement will be done with full weight, while the positive portion will be pressed at the original weight. I`ll continue stripping and addind the incremental weight, until I have completed a total of 10 repetitions. This is how negatives are used effectively to penetrate every fiber within the leg.
I`ll take 5 minutes rest period between sets.
This is not for the average getbigers.
why are you pretending like this is some great discovery? You're basically doing SuperSlow training. FWIW, if you want to recruit as many stabilizer muscles as possible and thus get the best possible workout, do free weight squats in a cage....none of this smith machine bullshit. That's for pussies. ;)
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biceps, ive been doing more negs in my workouts and muscles seem to be really responding, great for just maintenance workouts. When I was younger they did nothing, thought it was bullshit, but now they are really effective.
I dont use workout partners though, they are too annoying.
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why are you pretending like this is some great discovery? You're basically doing SuperSlow training. FWIW, if you want to recruit as many stabilizer muscles as possible and thus get the best possible workout, do free weight squats in a cage....none of this smith machine bullshit. That's for pussies. ;)
Why do you think stabilizing muscles aren't used in a Smith? Just because some asspipe said something in Flex magazine 20 years ago doesn't make it so.
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This is not for the average getbigers.
thats because the average get-bigger doesnt train as he is too busy sitting in his mom's basement posting on here 44 times a day.
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biceps, ive been doing more negs in my workouts and muscles seem to be really responding, great for just maintenance workouts. When I was younger they did nothing, thought it was bullshit, but now they are really effective.
I dont use workout partners though, they are too annoying.
I have to be at the Gym in 20 minutes I will respond you this afternoon.
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The origins of this system and about its creator.
http://fitnessenterprises.com/delczeg_training.html
http://www.getbig.com/iview/delczeg040217.htm
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Why do you think stabilizing muscles aren't used in a Smith? Just because some asspipe said something in Flex magazine 20 years ago doesn't make it so.
Note that I didn't say that stablizing muscles aren't used in a smith. I said: "if you want to recruit as many stabilizer muscles as possible and thus get the best possible workout, do free weight squats in a cage." Some stabilizers of course will come into play with a smith, but I don't think anyone could reasonably deny that the free weight squat is preferable in this regard.
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biceps, ive been doing more negs in my workouts and muscles seem to be really responding, great for just maintenance workouts. When I was younger they did nothing, thought it was bullshit, but now they are really effective.
I dont use workout partners though, they are too annoying.
You need to find 2 very serious guys to train with you. PM me your address and I will send you 3 of the system free of charge, this way you can give 1 out to each guy before they make a commitment.
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why are you pretending like this is some great discovery? You're basically doing SuperSlow training. FWIW, if you want to recruit as many stabilizer muscles as possible and thus get the best possible workout, do free weight squats in a cage....none of this smith machine bullshit. That's for pussies. ;)
The reason for the smith machine (is the back and fort stripped weights), if the weights are not stripped in same time you could lose the your balance and can cause injure for the lower back. I am not forsing any body on this system.
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Note that I didn't say that stablizing muscles aren't used in a smith. I said: "if you want to recruit as many stabilizer muscles as possible and thus get the best possible workout, do free weight squats in a cage." Some stabilizers of course will come into play with a smith, but I don't think anyone could reasonably deny that the free weight squat is preferable in this regard.
That is correct that the stabilizing will come in to play very little, that way I start the warm up with the free weight on till the negatives, my last warm up is is 355 lbs. If you in power lifting you can alterate this system one week and free weight next week.
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What if your training partners don`t show up..............you`re screwed!! LOL :)
Not a good idea unless you can find twi idiots who like to screw around with heavy plates all day and ruin their training so you can make progress.
Negatives have been done for eons.........nothing new under the sun.
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Interesting concept but I would have to agree with Pandaemonium that for full affect, getting under a regular squat bar is prime choice. And within a cage/PR. Too many weak areas are encouraged (open to injuries) with a Smith machine, if extra heavy squating is done (the original Nautilus equipment handled the three phase strength curve very well with their leg press machines also. Worked extremely well when negatives were applied, eliminating the need to strip/add plates each rep). BB'ers have to be the most inventive group around when it comes to new slants on training and diet. Pioneers in a way.
I have seen two other exercise that this negative strip method has worked on. That was chins and BB curls. And of course the two guy's at the ends of the squat bar get a good arm/delt workout. Good Luck.
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Interesting concept but I would have to agree with Pandaemonium that for full affect, getting under a regular squat bar is prime choice. And within a cage/PR. Too many weak areas are encouraged (open to injuries) with a Smith machine, if extra heavy squating is done (the original Nautilus equipment handled the three phase strength curve very well with their leg press machines also. Worked extremely well when negatives were applied, eliminating the need to strip/add plates each rep). BB'ers have to be the most inventive group around when it comes to new slants on training and diet. Pioneers in a way.
I have seen two other exercise that this negative strip method has worked on. That was chins and BB curls. And of course the two guy's at the ends of the squat bar get a good arm/delt workout. Good Luck.
I am familiar with the Nautilus equipment, and I am not trying to push this system on anybody, I am not in powerlifting I am in bodybuilding , in my teens I was competing in Olympic weight lifting so am familiar with power training also. It works wery well when you need to bring up a body part. Especially for the upper back.
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in my teens I was competing in Olympic weight lifting so am familiar with power training also. It works wery well when you need to bring up a body part. Especially for the upper back.
Good stuff. Haven't seen many Oly lifters around these parts.
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Good stuff. Haven't seen many Oly lifters around these parts.
My best lift standing over head press at 148 lbs body weight was 220 lbs (at age 17 back in 1969).
The reason I am yousing this system so I work both fast-twitch and slow-twich fibres to maximum capacity in same day, and is the only training system in which the lifter perform all of the work during the positive phase and the negative. The strength gains based individually on person. I train each body part every 7 days. I use this system in my suppersets or giant sets. It takes 2 months till you mind and body adjust for this torture. Is very hard to fine training partners most of them quit after 2 weeks. You have nothing to loose give it a try and lat me know how you liked.
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This is not for the average getbigers.
1.You will need a good Smith machine.
2. The Delczeg system require tow spotter, the job of the spotters is not to lift the weight for you. They should never touch the bar or assist you with forced reps. The purpose of the spotters to manipulate the weight by reducing the total during the positive portion of the rep and increasing the weight during the negative portion of the rep.
This method allows the heaviest possible weights to be used during the negative portion of each rep while also allowing the lifter to complete the positive portion of each rep without help. The spotters simply remove weight at the bottom of each rep and add it at the top of each rep. They should never touch the bar unless the lifter gets stuck at the bottom and can`t move the weight at all.
Example for squats:
I perform 4 strict ,full repetition with 455 lbs , so I begin my squat in a slow , strict , fluid and continuous motion, until you have completed 4 repetitions.
Without resting, I begin my 5th repetition. When my ass almost touch the ground a spotter on either side of the bar will remove the incremental weight 90 lbs ( 45 lbs each side of the bar) continue to stand up with 365 lbs. While in the standing position, my training partners quickly add the the incremental weight back to the bar (90lbs) and I begin your 6th repetition. In other words, after 5 repetitions, the negative portion of the movement will be done with full weight, while the positive portion will be pressed at the original weight. I`ll continue stripping and addind the incremental weight, until I have completed a total of 10 repetitions. This is how negatives are used effectively to penetrate every fiber within the leg.
I`ll take 5 minutes rest period between sets.
This is not for the average getbigers.
1. use free bar
2. chains
3. delczeg system lol ::)
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1. use free bar
2. chains
3. delczeg system lol ::)
The chains system use to be on of my favorite training systems, and I still use free weights.
I am not telling you that this is the best system, every work out system is a good system lung as you have results, (I try them all) but if you looking for a new challenge this would be the one.
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My best lift standing over head press at 148 lbs body weight was 220 lbs (at age 17 back in 1969).
That's a very respectable lift for your age and bodyweight at the time. Do you still do the oly lifts? For the past several months I've made cleans a staple of my workout routine but have basically stopped OHPing because of a bad shoulder.
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Here's what I do: Squats ~ up and down with weights on the bar
that's far too easy to ever see results bud ;D
none of this smith machine bullshit. That's for pussies. ;)
yup
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That's a very respectable lift for your age and bodyweight at the time. Do you still do the oly lifts? For the past several months I've made cleans a staple of my workout routine but have basically stopped OHPing because of a bad shoulder.
I don't do any OHP lifting, but I like to lift heavy.
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that's far too easy to ever see results bud ;D
yup
Give it a try and lat see how easy is.
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that's far too easy to ever see results bud ;D
yup
Geo,
Next time try this for you legs
1. Leg extension ( if the weight stack on the lag extension total 220 lbs than use the whole stack) the incremental weight will be 45 lb Olympic plate for the negative part, have your partner add the plate to the leg extension weight stack on the negative portion of the movement, and remove the plate during the positive movement.
Suppose you can perform 12 strict, full repetition with 220 lbs in a slow, strict and a short pause on the top with you lags totally extended if yes than have your partner add the 45 lbs to the stack and begin your first set do 8 reps with 265 lbs than after 8th rep continue the positive extensions with 220 and the negative with 265 lbs till you complet 12 reps, rest 3 min than repeat 3 more times. The leg extension machines are not the same, if your gym`s leg extension has more weights than 220 and you are able to use heavier than 220 then that is OK just add the 45 lbs to the weight you able to handle for 12 reps.
The next exercise after the extension is squats (the same system), when you are down with the squats next is lags press (agent the same system)
Then finish it up with hamstrig (same system).
Let me know how easy is.
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Geo,
Next time try this for you legs
1. Leg extension ( if the weight stack on the lag extension total 220 lbs than use the whole stack) the incremental weight will be 45 lb Olympic plate for the negative part, have your partner add the plate to the leg extension weight stack on the negative portion of the movement, and remove the plate during the positive movement.
Suppose you can perform 12 strict, full repetition with 220 lbs in a slow, strict and a short pause on the top with you lags totally extended if yes than have your partner add the 45 lbs to the stack and begin your first set do 8 reps with 265 lbs than after 8th rep continue the positive extensions with 220 and the negative with 265 lbs till you complet 12 reps, rest 3 min than repeat 3 more times. The leg extension machines are not the same, if your gym`s leg extension has more weights than 220 and you are able to use heavier than 220 then that is OK just add the 45 lbs to the weight you able to handle for 12 reps.
The next exercise after the extension is squats (the same system), when you are down with the squats next is lags press (agent the same system)
Then finish it up with hamstrig (same system).
Let me know how easy is.
So Geo did you try the system ?
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thats insane and def going to produce results. the hard thing is getting that motivated to train like that on legs day. i think most people. including my self sometimes dont put nearly as much efort into legs as say chest and arms. when i have a good workout partner its easy but unfortunatly i dont have 1 at the moment. def good shit tho.
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thats insane and def going to produce results. the hard thing is getting that motivated to train like that on legs day. i think most people. including my self sometimes dont put nearly as much efort into legs as say chest and arms. when i have a good workout partner its easy but unfortunatly i dont have 1 at the moment. def good shit tho.
Yes motivation is very important and discipline and dedication. Also you need to be very discipline regarding the rest and nutrition ,you will succeed only if you sleep, train and eat like a champion. In the beginning it fills like a torture but by the and of 8th week the pain becomes pleaser. You need to forget about the (I cant or it is impossible to train like this). Stronger you are mentally faster results will fallow.
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Groink, I'll try to break it down for you...
a smith squat is not the same as a free squat because:
Imagine doing a free bench press with about 3mm play laterally.
a steel bar controls natural resistance
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Groink, I'll try to break it down for you...
a smith squat is not the same as a free squat because:
Imagine doing a free bench press with about 3mm play laterally.
a steel bar controls natural resistance
Is no prove that free squats are better than smith squats or smith better than free squats for muscle building, it dipend on preference and training systems.
I can tell you because I believe in both, I had and I have results from both.
I am recomending the smith for this particularly system and to find out why ,you need to give a try, I am WARNING you this system is not a joke. I mentioned earlier that I am involved in bb for 40 years so I incorporate in my trainings the old school and the new era systems. My self I look at bb as a muscle physiology and muscle science. You need to be open minded and try different systems so you give new stimulation to you body and brain.
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If you on of those bb that you been training for years seriously than try this on your biceps day, after a good warm up with the straight bar load up the bar with a wight you can execute in correct form 2 reps curl with out swinging your body, and have ready on other bar with 30 lbs lest weight.
Lat say you can do 2 reps with 11o lbs so the other bar should be 80 lbs.
Curl the 110 lb up close to your chin now slowly than let the bar down half way than curl agent back to you chin than lat back agent half way do this six times (be sure that every single curl is executed in correct form) with out rest grab the 80 lbs bar bent forword slightly and do 10 to 8 reps with the 80 lbs bar rest 2 min and repeat, do all together 5 sets.
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If you on of those bb that you been training for years seriously than try this on your biceps day, after a good warm up with the straight bar load up the bar with a wight you can execute in correct form 2 reps curl with out swinging your body, and have ready on other bar with 30 lbs lest weight.
Lat say you can do 2 reps with 11o lbs so the other bar should be 80 lbs.
Curl the 110 lb up close to your chin now slowly than let the bar down half way than curl agent back to you chin than lat back agent half way do this six times (be sure that every single curl is executed in correct form) with out rest grab the 80 lbs bar bent forword slightly and do 10 to 8 reps with the 80 lbs bar rest 2 min and repeat, do all together 5 sets.
Next biceps exercise should be cable concentrat curl (negative system) with the straight pulley bar. Adjust the the weight on the wight stack that let you execute 12 reps in correct strict form, curl the bar up till you touch your front of you head hold ed and squeezed hard than have you partner add a 35 lbs plate on the edge of the weight stack and then let your arms slowly down with the extra 35 lbs added, when you arms are almost full extended have you partner lift the 35 lbs plate off of the edge of the weight stack than curl the bar back to you front head squeeze hard and have you partner add the 35 lbs back to the edge of the weight stack,and kip doing this till you comlit 10 reps, rest for 2 min and repeat 4 more times.
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Be sure that you executing every exercise with strict form, no cheating , in specially for the once with out of anabolic. Increase you protein intake with10% every week for the first 8 weeks.
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Be sure that you executing every exercise with strict form, no cheating , in specially for the once with out of anabolic. Increase you protein intake with10% every week for the first 8 weeks.
Every workout (don't meter which body part )should include full range of motions, don't confuse bb with power lifting training, use as heavy possible with good form, use negative and partials in every training with controlled motion. Use both slow twitch and fast twitch muscle fibers every work outs. If you train like a power lifter you will look like a power lifter. If you train like a bb you will look like a bb.
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If you able to stuck with the Delczeg system for 4 week you will have a total different view about negatives. Can bee use for every body part.
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So did any of you had chance to try the system?
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Use a heavy workout one week and a moderate workout the following week, be sure that you do the negatives all the time even on the moderate workout days.
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During regular negative training, the targeted muscle passively resists the weight by involving the maximum amount of muscle fiber. In the order to move the weight back up to the satart position, the additional aid of external help is necessary. A training partner must involve himself to get the weight back to a point of stability.
At this point, a portion of the motor units( fibers and nerve connections) involved, shut off and th effectiveness of the negative repetition is significantly reduced.
With the Delczeg system the effectiveness of the negative portion of the movement is what will cause you to gain more muscle. The protein manipulation is very important with this system. You need to use the same spotters every time and take turns back and fort.
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I think its a great method. I do it mostly on unilateral movements. Squats and deads etc I do more conventially to positive failure.