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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: SirTraps on November 15, 2007, 02:08:04 PM
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how the hell do you have any sort of good form with really really heavy weights... my example would be my barbell rows... i have a handful of good reps with good form with 405 but..when i get to 455 i get alot of leg drive in getting it up. I get a ridiculous pump in my lats and they're tired out when it's over but i start out bent over right and finish it pretty close to standing up at the top of the row. My question is how the hell do you get to move big weight, stay balanced, and use what is supposed to resemble good form?! Especially when you're doing close to double your body weight?
I didnt know Ronnie Coleman posts here ;D
Is this believable ? im having a hard time believing this
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if that's wicked they are more like "power shrugs".
8)
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we didn`t know until we see a clip ?? Barbell rows are a exercise on which everybody can use much heavier loads while cheating (like
biceps curls, side-laterals). Also, what someone call "strict", another one will call "bad form". So it`s a relative thing.....
Sometimes when i`m training i also go a bit overboard with strict form when using real heavy weights. But as a re-natural (for 3 Years)
and in my mid-40`s i do exercises which don`t allow me to cheat to much, so i can avoid injury. Example T-Bar rows on a special bench.
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no one can do barbell rows the old fashioned way with that kind of weight, sure the yates style almost stood upright rows yeah
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strict barbell rows parallel to the floor with 4 plates + (each side) is really outstanding. But i disagree that it is impossible. There are a lot of strength athletes (esp. Strongman, heavy powerlifter) who where able to perform sets in good form even with this weight.
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am i the only one never doing bent over rows yates style but parallel to the floor?
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hahaha this thread is priceless....you guys better watch out before thelamefalsehood shows up and blows you all away wiht lbage amazingness! WHEREYOUAT BROTHER RAAAAAAAWRGGH!!!
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The best way to do barbell rows (I'm not saying it's the only way to do them, just that it's the most productive) is with your lower back (lumbar region) parallel to the floor at all times and arching your upper back in such a way that your shoulders rise slightly above your hips at the top of the movement (still keeping your lower back parallel to the floor).
Doing them this way greatly reduces the problem of a shifting centre of gravity.
The real secret however, is to use a shoulder width grip (an EZ-bar allows you to clear your knees a little more easily) and PULL TO YOUR LOWER STOMACH.
Rowing to your sternum or chest is a waste of time with regard to activating the latissimae dorsi muscles... rowing to your lower stomach or public bone area might reduce the weight used but pays dividends in terms of mind-muscle connection and lat development.
For the record, NO ONE can row four plates to their lower stomach without standing up somewhat... even two plates that way is a feat of strength akin to squatting four plates all the way down or deadlifting four plates.
The Luke
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For the record, NO ONE can row four plates to their lower stomach without standing up somewhat... even two plates that way is a feat of strength akin to squatting four plates all the way down or deadlifting four plates.
The Luke
Thats what i said, lee haney used to do them this way and i dont think went much above a plate and a half to two plates
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Thats what i said, lee haney used to do them this way and i dont think went much above a plate and a half to two plates
the only person i've ever seen do them the old fashoined way with the back close to parallel to the floor and standing on some type of block with anything over 300 pounds is Bertil Fox in his second video doing them with 335 or so.
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the only person i've ever seen do them the old fashoined way with the back close to parallel to the floor and standing on some type of block with anything over 300 pounds is Bertil Fox in his second video doing them with 335 or so.
I've seen pics of Franco and Arnold with 3 plates.
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I've seen pics of Franco and Arnold with 3 plates.
yeah them too, matter of fact i think Arnold did them standing on a bench.
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yeah them too, matter of fact i think Arnold did them standing on a bench.
youre right...in his barefeet ;D
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look at huge nasser el sonbaty's form here(1 min 45sec onwards), does this really give the back anywhere near the kind of workout that doing it the old fashioned way would, its gonna hit the traps more i would have thought?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SdWn2oyus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SdWn2oyus)
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youre right...in his barefeet ;D
who you got in the Mizzou/KU game next week, Pete?
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is that a quote from "wickedtruth" aka constantlies :D
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I've seen pics of Franco and Arnold with 3 plates.
...Flex magazine adds the plates by photoshop.
Arnold did his rows with 2 plates and rounded his back. He didn't go above parallel so they still worked, but they work better with a continuously arched back and rowing to lower on the stomach... there's no need to stretch the lat at all in this movement; an arched back creates a strain on the lats even in the relaxed position.
There seems to be this assumption in bodybuilding that what the pros do must be proper training when in fact the opposite is often true... for example: Lee Haney may credit wide grip chins and pulldowns with his flaring lats, but we all know that clavicle-width/lat-attachments are genetic and wide grip rowing/pulling movements are less productive than the narrower grip alternatives yet greatly increase the risk of injury.
If I ever end up in a FLEX magazine training article I similarly could credit working on building sites wearing hob-nail boots with my freaky calf development... when in fact my whole family have exceptionally long calves and I don't even train mine.
For the record: Dorian and Ronnie only row in a semi-upright manner because of their enlarged midsections.
The Luke
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For the record: Dorian and Ronnie only row in a semi-upright manner because of their enlarged midsections.
The Luke
::)
No, moron, they rowed at roughly a 70 degree angle because it shifts the stress from the erector spinae to the latissimus dorsi. Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it? The Yates row is at the optimal angle because it allows for the greatest poundage (stress on the lats) to be used. This is the main reason Dorian and Ronnie's backs were lightyears ahead of anyone elses.
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Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it?
Ronnie, Dorian and "TheWickedTruth" all have ;D ::)
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::)
No, moron, they rowed at roughly a 70 degree angle because it shifts the stress from the erector spinae to the latissimus dorsi. Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it? The Yates row is at the optimal angle because it allows for the greatest poundage (stress on the lats) to be used. This is the main reason Dorian and Ronnie's backs were lightyears ahead of anyone elses.
agreed, luke sounds jealous.
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Ronnie, Dorian and "TheWickedTruth" all have ;D ::)
hahah, that's quite a group
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::)
No, moron, they rowed at roughly a 70 degree angle because it shifts the stress from the erector spinae to the latissimus dorsi. Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it? The Yates row is at the optimal angle because it allows for the greatest poundage (stress on the lats) to be used. This is the main reason Dorian and Ronnie's backs were lightyears ahead of anyone elses.
England_1 knows what he's talking about.
You cant simple handle to have poundages if you're parallel. simply because its impossile to balance the beight at that angle. Ronnie and Doz knew what they where doing.. obviously..
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Usually I row a VW Bug on each end of the bar but next week I'm moving up to an SUV on each side I'M INTENSE BITCHES, 405 FOR ROWS IS WHAT MY GRANDMA IN THE NURSING HOME USES,AGGHHRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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look at huge nasser el sonbaty's form here(1 min 45sec onwards), does this really give the back anywhere near the kind of workout that doing it the old fashioned way would, its gonna hit the traps more i would have thought?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SdWn2oyus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2SdWn2oyus)
if you guys use nasser and dorian as an example of a heavy ass row then i'm golden and don't have any other questions. I not only bend over that far but I pull that shit into my stomach..i don't stop short mid quad like nasser does.
And to the guys that think perfect form is completely bent over..you're full of shit because there's no way your lower back can take that OR you can keep balanced with that kind of weight bent over like that.
And dorian's back was lightyears above francos and arnold's cap...but they're still big ass backs that i'd like to have! ;D
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Usually I row a VW Bug on each end of the bar but next week I'm moving up to an SUV on each side I'M INTENSE BITCHES, 405 FOR ROWS IS WHAT MY GRANDMA IN THE NURSING HOME USES,AGGHHRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
now that's what i'm talkign about baby! way to bring the motherfuckinpain train to the HISZOUSE NAWMEAN!!!
;D ;D
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::)
No, moron, they rowed at roughly a 70 degree angle because it shifts the stress from the erector spinae to the latissimus dorsi. Have you ever tried holding 405 in a completely bent over state, let alone then row it? The Yates row is at the optimal angle because it allows for the greatest poundage (stress on the lats) to be used. This is the main reason Dorian and Ronnie's backs were lightyears ahead of anyone elses.
Nasser did them this way and his back wasnt "light years ahead of everyone else", the notion that a single exersise makes that much difference("light years") is quite frankly absurd!
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Nasser did them this way and his back wasnt "light years ahead of everyone else", the notion that a single exersise makes that much difference("light years") is quite frankly absurd!
That's becuase, as seen on Nasser's BFTO 1996, Nasser's range of motion was horrible on rows. In fact, it was more like a shrug than a row.
If you want proof of this look at these two videos of Yates doing rows and Nasser doing rows and tell me which one will have a more developed latissimus dorsi ;)
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if no matter hwo you do them...it hits the targeted muscles..does it really matter?! ???
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oh sure, im not arguing that but you seemed to imply that the sole reason for yates and coleman having a back light years ahead of everyone else was down to this magical 70 degree row, i say no one movement makes that much difference and their back development was probably mainly down to good genetics for that bodypart
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That's becuase, as seen on Nasser's BFTO 1996, Nasser's range of motion was horrible on rows. In fact, it was more like a shrug than a row.
If you want proof of this look at these two videos of Yates doing rows and Nasser doing rows and tell me which one will have a more developed latissimus dorsi ;)
if you think nasser is bad..you should see jonnie jackson do them in the youtube vid ronnie vs jonnie
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this is what the world thinks a yates row is..
&feature=related
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oh sure, im not arguing that but you seemed to imply that the sole reason for yates and coleman having a back light years ahead of everyone else was down to this magical 70 degree row, i say no one movement makes that much difference and their back development was probably mainly down to good genetics for that bodypart
[/quote
Actually, in Dorian's book he notes the reverse grip barbell row as the single exercise the best built his back up ;)
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i have a verrry strong lower back...
but i sure dont them parallel... i used to
the lower back would give out before my lats and middle back was worked..
and that way has given me great results...
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Complete bullshit.
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that yates row is more for ego lifters, moving the bar an inch with a lot of weight on it. doesnt look too beneficial for building muscle.
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that yates row is more for ego lifters, moving the bar an inch with a lot of weight on it. doesnt look too beneficial for building muscle.
Well it seemed to work for him.
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yeah everything works with that drugs regime and genetics. some pros train like ass, and look how amazing they look.
maybe he would have had a better back if he did them paralel to the ground, who knows.
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Who knows, was the reverse grip row the reason or a contributing factor to his bicep tear? Ive tried them and found the biceps came into play more as opposed to using a regular grip for barbell rows. Still, could have just been me.
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thats because they do come into play with that grip, thats why i dont like doing them that way.
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thats because they do come into play with that grip, thats why i dont like doing them that way.
I stopped doing rows and stuff like that, i'm just shooting for the health look these days
I find that some good stretching every morning is all the backwork I need these days Mars
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are you done too with the good old days bro?
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are you done too with the good old days bro?
yes my bro, all that freeweight stuff only leads to disaster in the end. I wanna be around to see my kids grow older
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yes my bro, all that freeweight stuff only leads to disaster in the end. I wanna be around to see my kids grow older
You really think that? I don't know how you use to train, but it shouldn't really do any harm to you in the long run, i mean its not gonna take years off your life.
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The great Glenn Pendlay could row 500+ strict.
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yeah but the way we used to lift is not real healthy bro.
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You really think that? I don't know how you use to train, but it shouldn't really do any harm to you in the long run, i mean its not gonna take years off your life.
listen you might be caughht up in the exitement from watching pumping iron for the first time, but in the long run you'll probably end up in a wheelchair. 2-3 years of freeweights is enough and then it's safer to move onto bodyweight exercises for maintenance
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listen you might be caughht up in the exitement from watching pumping iron for the first time, but in the long run you'll probably end up in a wheelchair. 2-3 years of freeweights is enough and then it's safer to move onto bodyweight exercises for maintenance
I don't know mate, i know a lot who have lifted for a very long time and they are in great health. Still, might come down to the type of training you do, but i feel what i do isn't gonna do me any harm.
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I don't know mate, i know a lot who have lifted for a very long time and they are in great health. Still, might come down to the type of training you do, but i feel what i do isn't gonna do me any harm.
well it's your life mate, but i'm sure as hell not gonna let a barbell ruin mine.
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(http://www.indepthinfo.com/iraq/gifs/saddam.jpg)
He was a great man.
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that chair was made of real gold
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(http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/news/061230/sadaam1.jpg)
SAHLAM A LAKUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Iraq is avenging the martyrs death as we speak.
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Iraq is avenging the martyrs death as we speak.
you can't keep a good man down!!!!!!
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Well it seemed to work for him.
Remember the guy also deadlifted and did pullovers during every back workout. I think Yates gives so much credit to the rows out of an ego thing because of all the weight he was pulling. Just a small piece of the puzzle.
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These invaders, their tombs will be in Iraq.
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Remember the guy also deadlifted and did pullovers during every back workout. I think Yates gives so much credit to the rows out of an ego thing because of all the weight he was pulling. Just a small piece of the puzzle.
Yeah, a lot of bb'ers like to have an exercise they are known for using,
Dorian- Reverse grip rows
Ronnie- T-bars
Doesn't mean they came up with them or anything, just an exercise a lot of people know that they regularly use.
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hahaaaaa,,,,Sadam makes George B. look like a b### in that pic
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"When we were making the law, when we were writing the literature and the mathematics the grandfathers of Blair and little Bush were scratching around in caves"
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Yeah, a lot of bb'ers like to have an exercise they are known for using,
Dorian- Reverse grip rows
Ronnie- T-bars
Doesn't mean they came up with them or anything, just an exercise a lot of people know that they regularly use.
dont forget the arnold press!
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arnold press is for idiots, just like the cable cross is for fags, just stick to heavy dumbell presses, clean and press, behind the neck press, militairy press for big boulders.
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arnold press is for idiots, just like the cable cross is for fags, just stick to heavy dumbell presses, clean and press, behind the neck press, militairy press for big boulders.
who wants big shoulders? i train for health
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just like the cable cross is for fags
maybe they should rename it the "bob paris cross" then?
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who wants big shoulders? i train for health
well im not really in the game anymore, i earned my marks and just want to stay healthy so i dont do a lot of hardcore stuff anymore.
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Pendlay rows is a great exercise.
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well im not really in the game anymore, i earned my marks and just want to stay healthy.
yes, it's something good to tell my grandkids but I wanna make 50 so i'm just doing reduced calorie/optimum nutrition these days
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yes, it's something good to tell my grandkids but I wanna make 50 so i'm just doing reduced calorie/optimum nutrition these days
Have you gone off the sauce mate? How heavy are you now?
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may his excellency rest in peace.
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rows at 70 degrees are for me the number 1 back exersize, if you do them week in week out and get the feel for them your back feels like its goin to explode afterwards... rows at parrallel are shite, you cant realy contract your lats hard in that position
on the heavy free weights issue,, if u hammer them for years the injuries just get worse and worse, no matter how strict you train
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I guess it all comes down to what you think constitutes proper training...
If you don't see anything wrong with rowing a weight you couldn't deadlift for the same amount of reps, then perhaps you're beyond helping.
The Luke