Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: abc123 on November 25, 2007, 11:36:39 AM
-
50mg Stanozolol EOD or 50mg Anavar ED
Which do you think provides better results?
-
Winny hands down
-
Agree winny, this is a no brainer
-
Agree winny, this is a no brainer
Yep, var is great...if you're a girl.
Guys, there is a reason why anavar is the most highly recommended AAS for females. BTW, no serious female BB/lifter/competitor should be without it! :)
-
I like them both and have doubts how much UG var is real.
Var is a spendy chemical and the UG prices I often see are too cheap to be real, even UG.
Either compound will help hang on to lean mass at the end of a cycle.
I normaly never run a oral only, but if you try var only as last compound when there is truly NOTHING else in your system at the bitter end, I think you'd be impressed. Its not very supressive, and even 25mg of
US Pharm var will tip the balance.
Smooth recovery and virtualy Zero crash. Decent little strength drug.
-
I like them both and have doubts how much UG var is real.
Var is a spendy chemical and the UG prices I often see are too cheap to be real, even UG.
That's because a lot of it's winny. They try to pass it off as anavar because you'll get some results from it.
-
50mg Stanozolol EOD or 50mg Anavar ED
Which do you think provides better results?
Why EOD with the winny?
-
Why EOD with the winny?
Shots?
-
Shots?
That's what I was thinking but you never know.
-
Better results in WHAT? strength? mass? getting ready for a show?
REAL Human Grade Var by a landslide if you want strength.
8)
-
Var is better in that you'll be stronger and it won't affect HPTA therefore it can stand alone, winny alone is not androgenic enough and it'll fuck up your HPTA. Winny is a great additiion to an androgen or with clen precontest last 30 days.
-
Why EOD with the winny?
I have always only done shots of winny EOD because I react well to hormones in general. I like the var but prefer the more vascular look that winny provides. It just seems to stack better with test.
-
Even the Var at low therapeutic dose has some effect on natural testo.
But not anything like aromatizing steroid.
If your stopping steroid completely for 6+ weeks (I think 100days off after a long run is better)
and your all the way off long-acting stuff; and then go to var only at even 25-30mg ed, split in 3 doses,
run like that for a week to 10 days, as your very last steroid.
Then clomid. See what you think. Smooth landing. Minimal weight loss/ size loss, and other unpleasant issues.
Primo works nice like that too.
I prefer Stanoz with Tprop (100mg eod each) prior as the last fact acting.
-
If money was no object, definetly Var better results and not as harsh on your skin or hair..
realistically winny is a much better 'bang for your buck'
-
50mg Stanozolol EOD or 50mg Anavar ED
Which do you think provides better results?
both are bullshit ;)
bench
-
REAL Human Grade Var by a landslide if you want strength.
8)
Agreed. Anavar is insane for strength if taken at sufficient dosage and length of time.
-
Var is better in that you'll be stronger and it won't affect HPTA therefore it can stand alone,
Anavar is in fact pretty damn suppressive. Just 15mg for 3 days will lower your test by 30%.
-
Anavar is in fact pretty damn suppressive. Just 15mg for 3 days will lower your test by 30%.
SO you got a spectromater and lab at home?
In the real world, Ill tell you var is not near as supressive as Testos and Deca.
My Real World Actual impression - Var is The least supressive of all the HG AAS Ive used, and thats pretty much ALL OF THEM.
Take all reasearch with a grain of salt. Typical book bullshit.
-
SO you got a spectromater and lab at home?
In the real world, Ill tell you var is not near as supressive as Testos and Deca.
My Real World Actual impression - Var is The least supressive of all the HG AAS Ive used, and thats pretty much ALL OF THEM.
Take all reasearch with a grain of salt. Typical book bullshit.
I'm basing it off personal experience plus the research that is available. For me it's very suppressive, more than any other oral I've tried - drol, dbol, winstrol, methyltest, halo, etc.
Why do you think the research on Anavar is unreliable?
(http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/vol84/issue8/images/large/eg0895923003.jpeg)
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/8/2705?ijkey=1c18e10cb501555f36c9cd0781adbaeac590bbaf
-
I'm basing it off personal experience plus the research that is available. For me it's very suppressive, more than any other oral I've tried - drol, dbol, winstrol, methyltest, halo, etc.
Why do you think the research on Anavar is unreliable?
(http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/vol84/issue8/images/large/eg0895923003.jpeg)
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/84/8/2705?ijkey=1c18e10cb501555f36c9cd0781adbaeac590bbaf
Was that in journal of clinical endocrinology?
I question ALL research, and I give WAY more credence to your personal experience - for your body.
Ive not seen taht kind of findings for var. Quite the opposite. But,Theres research to show most everything.
I find var (and that would be USA FDA HG var) least suppressive of any steroid Ive used. I dont doubt it may affect you different.
ANdriol shuts me down fast, and Cyp gives me wicked zits in compare to any testo.
Have you used HG USA Pharma Var?
Lots UG out there is not var, but low dose Dbol, or even methyl. Take that female BBers!
Also, what kind of dose were you on? Real var is also spendy.
-
Read that study, it has about ZERO relevance to real world use of this stuff.
5 guys, 5 days.
There is SO much nonsense (typical) in the study its a laugh.
-
Was that in journal of clinical endocrinology?
I question ALL research, and I give WAY more credence to your personal experience - for your body.
Ive not seen taht kind of findings for var. Quite the opposite. But,Theres research to show most everything.
I find var (and that would be USA FDA HG var) least suppressive of any steroid Ive used. I dont doubt it may affect you different.
ANdriol shuts me down fast, and Cyp gives me wicked zits in compare to any testo.
Have you used HG USA Pharma Var?
Lots UG out there is not var, but low dose Dbol, or even methyl. Take that female BBers!
Also, what kind of dose were you on? Real var is also spendy.
I put the link at the bottom. "The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism". Do you have some research showing it does not shut you down or that the suppression is mild?
No I haven't used US Pharm Var. I've used powder which I trust is legit. It wasn't Chinese powder however. I've used between 20 and 80mg+.
That's weird that you say Andriol shuts you down fast since it's just not absorbed well. The research also shows it to not be very suppressive (no doubt since it doesn't absorb and raise test levels very much).
-
Read that study, it has about ZERO relevance to real world use of this stuff.
5 guys, 5 days.
There is SO much nonsense (typical) in the study its a laugh.
Why does it have zero relevance? You think a larger study would show different results?
-
UG Powder sums up your experience.
Get some legal HG USA mfg var and try again.
5 subjects for 5 days is not a study.
I dont feel like digging up research right now, Ill have a look some time.
All this stuff acts in the individuals particular body chemistry, and here and there odd results are found.
Evey user finds a product that reacts abnormal in them.
But var dont have a users rep for being suppressive. It may in you, but I suspect you were sold other than oxandrolone.
Var was made for women and kids. IT was specifically made with intent not to influence the HPTA is my understanding. Drawling conclusions from UG gear is pointless.
THe idea your getting what its sold as is fantasy.
-
UG Powder sums up your experience.
Get some legal HG USA mfg var and try again.
5 subjects for 5 days is not a study.
I dont feel like digging up research right now, Ill have a look some time.
All this stuff acts in the individuals particular body chemistry, and here and there odd results are found.
Evey user finds a product that reacts abnormal in them.
But var dont have a users rep for being suppressive. It may in you, but I suspect you were sold other than oxandrolone.
Var was made for women and kids. IT was specifically made with intent not to influence the HPTA is my understanding. Drawling conclusions from UG gear is pointless.
THe idea your getting what its sold as is fantasy.
Was your Anavar compounded in a pharmacy i.e. not brand name Oxandrin etc? The reason I'm asking, and I could be totally wrong here so correct me if I'm wrong, is that hasn't a lot of the material used by some of the compounding pharmacies been Chinese material? From what I've read about the pharmacy busts in the US I know they had been getting GH and steroid hormones from China. So how can one be sure it's quality material?
As far as what I've used I'm pretty sure as to the quality, not getting too much into why but I'll say it was synthesized in Western Europe and lab tested by some I trust.
In any case all effective steroids are suppressive, we can disagree as to the extent. One of the reasons Anavar has been used in kids is that it doesn't aromatize and therefore doesn't stunt growth (estrogen causes the sealing of the growth plates). And it's effective without being very androgenic. This of course doesn't mean it doesn't suppress the HPTA.
-
Var was made for women and kids. IT was specifically made with intent not to influence the HPTA is my understanding.
Here's an example of studies in kids. Notice the low dosage.
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1993 Apr;38(4):393-8.
The effects of oxandrolone on the growth hormone and gonadal axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
Malhotra A, Poon E, Tse WY, Pringle PJ, Hindmarsh PC, Brook CG.
Endocrine Unit, Middlesex Hospital, London, UK.
OBJECTIVE: We studied the effects of oxandrolone on serum concentrations of LH, FSH, testosterone, GH, SHBG, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty. DESIGN: Ten boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty, mean age 13.8 years (range 12.4-15.5) were studied. Twenty-four-hour serum concentration profiles of GH, LH and FSH were constructed by drawing blood samples at 20-minute intervals. Three study occasions over a period of 6 months were chosen to assess hormone concentrations before, during and 6 weeks after a 3-month course of oxandrolone (2.5 mg once daily) therapy. RESULTS: Growth velocity increased during oxandrolone treatment and stayed higher after therapy (pre 3.9 +/- 0.5; on 6.3 +/- 0.8; post 6.4 +/- 0.9 cm/year (mean +/- SEM) two way ANOVA, F = 5.3, P = 0.02). Oxandrolone had androgenic effects, suppressing mean serum LH concentrations from 1.7 +/- 0.3 to 1.1 +/- 0.2 U/I and serum testosterone concentrations from 1.9 +/- 0.6 to 0.8 +/- 0.1 nmol/l. SHBG concentrations were also reduced from 130.9 +/- 14.6 to 30.7 +/- 7.3 nmol/l. Serum GH concentration fell slightly from 5.9 +/- 0.6 to 4.8 +/- 0.5 mU/l. After cessation of treatment, there was a significant 'rebound' in mean 24-hour serum LH (2.6 U/l +/- 0.4) and testosterone concentrations (3.2 +/- 0.9 nmol/l) but no change in serum GH concentrations. SHBG values also rose but not to the same extent as those observed before therapy (82.0 +/- 8.4 nmol/l). There were no statistically significant differences in serum concentrations of FSH, DHEAS, IGF-I and insulin over the study period. In a stepwise multiple regression analysis of factors that might influence the growth rate observed, the 24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration and the treatment (on or off) with oxandrolone were the main influences. The relationship was described by the equation Height velocity = 0.69 (24-hour mean serum testosterone concentration)+1.70 (treatment regimen)+3.37 (adjusted R2 = 0.35, F = 8.39, P = 0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Oxandrolone has an androgenic action as shown by changes in serum LH, testosterone and SHBG concentrations and by the lack of effect on FSH. No effect of oxandrolone on the GH axis was documented. We suggest that the growth promoting effects of oxandrolone are related in part to the mild androgenic effects of the steroid and the growth acceleration following oxandrolone withdrawal may reflect increasing total serum testosterone concentrations and decreasing levels of SHBG and progress in puberty.
Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1997 Feb;46(2):209-16. Related Articles, Links
Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.
Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.
Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.
OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial. PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures. RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.
-
Was your Anavar compounded in a pharmacy i.e. not brand name Oxandrin etc? The reason I'm asking, and I could be totally wrong here so correct me if I'm wrong, is that hasn't a lot of the material used by some of the compounding pharmacies been Chinese material? From what I've read about the pharmacy busts in the US I know they had been getting GH and steroid hormones from China. So how can one be sure it's quality material?
As far as what I've used I'm pretty sure as to the quality, not getting too much into why but I'll say it was synthesized in Western Europe and lab tested by some I trust.
In any case all effective steroids are suppressive, we can disagree as to the extent. One of the reasons Anavar has been used in kids is that it doesn't aromatize and therefore doesn't stunt growth (estrogen causes the sealing of the growth plates). And it's effective without being very androgenic. This of course doesn't mean it doesn't suppress the HPTA.
THere was one particular HRT & its main supply that got way greedy and was one of the 1st popped.
THey were ripping off charging for USA GH and selling Chinese.
I'm not aware of others, and the quality of everything I used from them was right up with Legit HG pharma I used outside of the USA. You get a feel for it. I'd be very surprised if the var was fake.
It actually makes for kind of a nervous energy in me. Way different from any other steroid. Hard to describe.
I was most impressed using it alone at the very end of a cycle. (I almost NEVER use a oral only)
Id gone to fast acting shots for about 2months prior, then Var only for about last 2 weeks. Recovery was basically
instant. That ain't normal for me.
If your stuff was tested by a legit lab, its prolly just another example of steroids acting a little different in each user.
Dbol dont bloat me, Anapolon dont hurt my eating one bit....
Got to take "Research" for what it is, egg-heads with no real world steroid use experience.
ANd, bias & agendas.
If I was laying in the intensive burn unit, Id be on more than 7mg of var ed. ;)
The medical clowns have had their heads up their ass about AAS for decades. It didnt change overnight.
-
THere was one particular HRT & its main supply that got way greedy and was one of the 1st popped.
THey were ripping off charging for USA GH and selling Chinese.
I'm not aware of others, and the quality of everything I used from them was right up with Legit HG pharma I used outside of the USA. You get a feel for it. I'd be very surprised if the var was fake.
It actually makes for kind of a nervous energy in me. Way different from any other steroid. Hard to describe.
I was most impressed using it alone at the very end of a cycle. (I almost NEVER use a oral only)
Id gone to fast acting shots for about 2months prior, then Var only for about last 2 weeks. Recovery was basically
instant. That ain't normal for me.
If your stuff was tested by a legit lab, its prolly just another example of steroids acting a little different in each user.
Dbol dont bloat me, Anapolon dont hurt my eating one bit....
Got to take "Research" for what it is, egg-heads with no real world steroid use experience.
ANd, bias & agendas.
If I was laying in the intensive burn unit, Id be on more than 7mg of var ed. ;)
The medical clowns have had their heads up their ass about AAS for decades. It didnt change overnight.
I've had the same observation. I've had a bunch of nervous energy since I've been on 50mg of Var ED. It is US pharma grade prescribed by a HRT doc.
-
Yeah, nervous leg, run the mouth... If I weren't White, I'd spontaneously start to Rap... ;D
-
How much of a difference is the the pill verse injecting? It just seems more convenient to swallow the pill.
-
Winny hands down
Agreed. Even better if you can get your hands on real Zambon injectables. Good winny orals are tough to come by. I personally have used Teragon Labs oral winny and have gotten great results with it.
-
THere is now injectable Oxandrin availible in the USA HRT pharmas!
50mg/ml $115.
Be a interesting add to end of a cycle at come off time.
-
THere is now injectable Oxandrin availible in the USA HRT pharmas!
50mg/ml $115.
Be a interesting add to end of a cycle at come off time.
I've always gotten the oral for HRT. I assume that the injectable is much easier on the liver?
-
I've always gotten the oral for HRT. I assume that the injectable is much easier on the liver?
IMO liver not a issue at low HRT, or low end of cycle doses for that oral.
Im interested in the slow steady release of the Inject.
thats where its at for any oral compound except for slamin' shit like Drol, Dbo, Halo, Methyl on top of a Inj base.
IME A Oral only droping dose at very end of a real stoppage of gear is Ok for a final Anabolic for a week or so,
Inj Var is interesting to me there.
ALso many women may be interested.
Inj is much steadier blood level.
-
Agreed. Even better if you can get your hands on real Zambon injectables. Good winny orals are tough to come by. I personally have used Teragon Labs oral winny and have gotten great results with it.
Yep...the Zambon's are fantasic!
-
Yep...the Zambon's are fantasic!
I would tend to agree if you are comparing to UG garbage, but how can Zambons be any different than stanozolol via a HRT doc?
-
I would tend to agree if you are comparing to UG garbage, but how can Zambons be any different than stanozolol via a HRT doc?
Only thing that can be said is some UG is actually overdosed. But damn little is .
I prefer USA/FDA inspected labs. Their Stan is competively priced even.(And Legal)
-
THere is now injectable Oxandrin availible in the USA HRT pharmas!
50mg/ml $115.
Be a interesting add to end of a cycle at come off time.
Is it water based? What is the half life?
-
Is it water based? What is the half life?
Not sure, Im not going to use any AAS for awhile, Im totally clean and feel fine.
But I can get you the Reps Ph# & E-Mail. He's very knowledgable and experienced.
Been on t he scene way back to PowerMedica inception.....
All the HGH & even a couple new ones also available. Starting at $7.5iu (Same old price) This BS about DEA taking all the HGH off the market is BullShit!
There is a SHITLOAD OF BAD INFO HERE ON THESE BOARDS. COMICAL.