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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Hugo Chavez on November 27, 2007, 03:22:35 AM
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No big shocker here...
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Monday signed a deal setting the foundation for a potential long-term U.S. troop presence in Iraq, with details to be negotiated over matters that have defined the war debate at home — how many U.S. forces will stay in the country, and for how long.
The agreement between Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki confirms that the United States and Iraq will hash out an "enduring" relationship in military, economic and political terms. Details of that relationship will be negotiated in 2008, with a completion goal of July, when the U.S. intends to finish withdrawing the five combat brigades sent in 2007 as part of the troop buildup that has helped curb sectarian violence.
cont... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071126/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq
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No big shocker here...
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Monday signed a deal setting the foundation for a potential long-term U.S. troop presence in Iraq, with details to be negotiated over matters that have defined the war debate at home — how many U.S. forces will stay in the country, and for how long.
The agreement between Bush and Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki confirms that the United States and Iraq will hash out an "enduring" relationship in military, economic and political terms. Details of that relationship will be negotiated in 2008, with a completion goal of July, when the U.S. intends to finish withdrawing the five combat brigades sent in 2007 as part of the troop buildup that has helped curb sectarian violence.
cont... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071126/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_iraq
Fuck.... :-\
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Fuck.... :-\
Not to long ago people were called conspiracy nuts for suggesting this day would happen.... Well here we are :D
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Not to long ago people were called conspiracy nuts for suggesting this day would happen.... Well here we are :D
I have still not received an answer on your political positions/affiliations...I am waiting...
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I have still not received an answer on your political positions/affiliations...I am waiting...
actually I was typing it up in between posting a few things. I wasn't ignoring you. I woke up around 2:00 and I started it around 3:00am and got caught up with some stuff I wanted to look up and post. I also had to shower shit shave and eat ;D
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Not to long ago people were called conspiracy nuts for suggesting this day would happen.... Well here we are :D
Beach Bum just got a facial full of reality.
Our "temporary" bases just became permanent.
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Having been there and seen what we've built up..i always thought we'd never leave. And that was 2003. We're never leaving Afghanistan..never. Every second things become more permanent. Much like Iraq, it does not mean that we'll have tens of thousands of men..but we will maintain the Green zone and places like Camp Victory/Balad etc, that will allow us to operate in the Middle East. We have a huge presence in Kuwait with a large infrastructure. The largest city in kosovo is Camp Bondsteel, we still have 5000 guys over there as well. They already have the outline plan to make Afghanistan like Korea. In that u do a 1 year tour with a series of permanent units there. The unit is based there and manned on year or two year assignments..unaccompani ed of course. So there would be no more units rotating from the states. u can do that if the Army gets bigger.
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Having been there and seen what we've built up..i always thought we'd never leave. And that was 2003. We're never leaving Afghanistan..never. Every second things become more permanent. Much like Iraq, it does not mean that we'll have tens of thousands of men..but we will maintain the Green zone and places like Camp Victory/Balad etc, that will allow us to operate in the Middle East. We have a huge presence in Kuwait with a large infrastructure. The largest city in kosovo is Camp Bondsteel, we still have 5000 guys over there as well. They already have the outline plan to make Afghanistan like Korea. In that u do a 1 year tour with a series of permanent units there. The unit is based there and manned on year or two year assignments..unaccompani ed of course. So there would be no more units rotating from the states. u can do that if the Army gets bigger.
True. This isn't news. I don't think anyone ever suggested we will completely leave Iraq. We're never leaving. We'll probably keep a presence similar to what we have at the DMZ.
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True. This isn't news. I don't think anyone ever suggested we will completely leave Iraq. We're never leaving. We'll probably keep a presence similar to what we have at the DMZ.
BB... do you believe that before we fired a single missile, our military planners KNEW we'd be setting up longterm bases in Iraq and afghanistan?
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BB... do you believe that before we fired a single missile, our military planners KNEW we'd be setting up longterm bases in Iraq and afghanistan?
I don't know.
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True. This isn't news. I don't think anyone ever suggested we will completely leave Iraq. We're never leaving. We'll probably keep a presence similar to what we have at the DMZ.
Sorry BB, it was a debate.
I remember quite well being told otherwise and I remember debating Bush and War supporters on this matter and being told I'm nuts.
"I can assure you that we have no intention at the present time of putting permanent bases in Iraq."--Donald Rumsfeld
U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, assured Congress, "We have no goal of establishing permanent bases" in Iraq.
"The presence in Iraq is for a very clear purpose, and that's to enable Iraqis to be able to govern themselves and to create security forces that can help them do that. I don't think that anybody believes that we really want to be there longer than we have to... "I would think the people will tell you, we're not seeking permanent bases, really, pretty much anywhere in the world these days."--Condasleeza Rice
oops
http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/19955
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Sorry BB, it was a debate.
I remember quite well being told otherwise and I remember debating Bush and War supporters on this matter and being told I'm nuts.
"I can assure you that we have no intention at the present time of putting permanent bases in Iraq."--Donald Rumsfeld
U.S. ambassador to Iraq, Zalmay Khalilzad, assured Congress, "We have no goal of establishing permanent bases" in Iraq.
"The presence in Iraq is for a very clear purpose, and that's to enable Iraqis to be able to govern themselves and to create security forces that can help them do that. I don't think that anybody believes that we really want to be there longer than we have to... "I would think the people will tell you, we're not seeking permanent bases, really, pretty much anywhere in the world these days."--Condasleeza Rice
oops
http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/19955
You never got that debate from me.
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You never got that debate from me.
??? I never said that it was with you... I was only replying to your "this isn't news, nobody suggested" and I think my post slams that notion down.
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??? I never said that it was with you... I was only replying to your "this isn't news, nobody suggested" and I think my post slams that notion down.
lol. Wires crossed. I was referring to 240's implication that I didn't believe we would have a long-term presence in Iraq.
When I said "nobody" I was referring to people posting on the board; me in particular. I wasn't talking about Bush, Rumsfeld, etc.
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The 'Iraqi Liberation Act' was already legislation on the table in 1998 so it was already in the works under Clinton....first kill and starve them with bombs and sanctions as he did and pave the way for invasion....
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It is a sad state if US military presence becomes permanent.
The problem is that it is very similar to how European countries leeched their colonies for resources in the 18th, 19th and 20th century, leading to political, social and economical chaos in those areas.
The Marshall plan was brilliant, building up and helping Germany after it had been conquered, not trying to leech on it.
The result is that USA-France-UK and Germany have very strong ties, and will never go to war with each other again.
Why not learn from that good example, instead of repeating the faults of the Europeans? ???
Let Iraq prosper, let them use their enormous natural riches to re-build their infrastructure, and give any help they need with education of police force et al. That will give democracy a fair chance.
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Why not learn from that good example, instead of repeating the faults of the Europeans?
why not? because germany didn't have vast amounts of oil resources...that's why not.
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It is a sad state if US military presence becomes permanent.
The problem is that it is very similar to how European countries leeched their colonies for resources in the 18th, 19th and 20th century, leading to political, social and economical chaos in those areas.
Are you saying that the US invasion of Iraq is modern day colonialism?
We know that hundreds of years ago, countries sent armies to install leadership, take resources, and set up trading/military outposts. They didn't need the permission of their populace, becaues they were oblivious or just swallowed "british expansion" as the cause.
With today's internet, citizens here would see the bloodshed involved in "colonizing" iraq for oil and bases. To get them behind it, the WMD lie was created. Fear gave permission slips.
We're colonizing another country and pilfering their resources. Just like man has done since it learned to leave its own camps.
Is that what you're saying, Hedge?
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Are you saying that the US invasion of Iraq is modern day colonialism?
We know that hundreds of years ago, countries sent armies to install leadership, take resources, and set up trading/military outposts. They didn't need the permission of their populace, becaues they were oblivious or just swallowed "british expansion" as the cause.
With today's internet, citizens here would see the bloodshed involved in "colonizing" iraq for oil and bases. To get them behind it, the WMD lie was created. Fear gave permission slips.
We're colonizing another country and pilfering their resources. Just like man has done since it learned to leave its own camps.
Is that what you're saying, Hedge?
The problem with colonization, is that it create future problems. Look at France and the problems they have with their former colonies.
Or look at Zimbabwe, where England pulled out fairly recently.
In contrast, look at how Germany, a country totally destructed, was able to recover in record time.
Marshall plan, de-militarisation (Germany was not allowed any military of its own in the beginning, and still has a relatively small military), and help with general restructuring.
And, unlike after the WW I, Germany didn't get an unfair deal in the peace agreement.
Give Iraq a deal that will be considered a fair shake, and help it back on its feet.
Then Iraq and its people will become an ally for USA in years to come.
Otherwise it will only be the current leader who will have some sort of temporary pledge to USA.
It's all about rationalism.
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I would agree..but ur one mistake is in assuming that Iraqi's and indeed many arabs are rational. The rational ones left. The Germans and Japanese where rational folks. They were'nt hamstrung by a nutbag and worthless religion. Its amazing to look at countries like the UAE and Kuwiat who pay lip service to Islam but go about life as super capitalists, while the rest ot the middle east, with some exceptions, continues to butcher themselves and their neighbors. Islam is the enemy of peace in the Middle East.
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Hedge,
I don't think our leaders are too worried about the future destablization of Iraq.
I think they're concerned with keeping Iraqi oil flowing in Dollars, which stalls a dollar crisis.
The point of the iraqi hydro oil law was to give 80% of iraqi oil contracts to US firms.
This ensures the dollar is used for 4/5 of Iraqi oil, forever, regardless of whatever govt is elected next.
I think short-term is all they're thinking in. Sure, this will spawn another saddam, possibly al sadr. But that'll be Chelsea or Jeb's problem to inherit. Bush will be living in his S American mansion by then.
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The 'Iraqi Liberation Act' was already legislation on the table in 1998 so it was already in the works under Clinton....first kill and starve them with bombs and sanctions as he did and pave the way for invasion....
Sounds like genocide :D
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BB, go in the corner with your dunce cap.
:)
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum or group with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
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:)
"An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who intentionally posts controversial or contrary messages in an on-line community such as an on-line discussion forum or group with the intention of baiting users into an argumentative response." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll
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Plagiarizer! :)