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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: loco on December 03, 2007, 05:03:47 AM
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Voters reject Chavez's referendum
"...The most controversial amendment would do away with term limits, thereby allowing the 53-year-old former paratrooper, who has already served almost eight years in power, to hold it indefinitely as long as he is re-elected..."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/03/venezuela.referendum/index.html
Venezuela rejects bid by Chávez to amend charter
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/03/america/venez.php
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odd switch from exit polls.
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This is a happy day for the NWO...
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It was funny to see him trying to pose as a democratic person and accepting he lost.
More like he didnt want his referendum approved by a 50,1%, because that would have been nothing but an epic failure.
Smart guy though, he will rule venezuela for another 20 years until he waste the last single oil drop.
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It was funny to see him trying to pose as a democratic person and accepting he lost.
More like he didnt want his referendum approved by a 50,1%, because that would have been nothing but an epic failure.
Smart guy though, he will rule venezuela for another 20 years until he waste the last single oil drop.
acutally he's always claimed this, this has always been an accusation he has refuted. Doesn't this back that up? I hate to tell you all this but he has enough support in the military that he could have easily, many times taken a more agressive path. Had it not been for him having a significant pro-chavez faction in the military, the coup would have not been stopped. Like him or not, he has put everything up to the people, if that's not democracy, I have no idea what is. So really, the "play democratic" is bullshit. Sorry, he's backed it up over and over.
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i have near-zero interest in thsi chavez story.
this leaked thing about how we were going to interfere. maybe it's true, maybe he made it up to fire up his base and secure fencesetter votes.
either way, who cares. We'll keep buying oil from him. If he messes with the dollar or stops playing ball with us, we'll find a reason to take him out. Business as usual. I dont understand why we care much about him. Yes, venez has oil. Yes, he believes 911 was self-attack. Yes, he craps on our imperialism. But why all the discussion about him? Lots of leaders worldwide feel the same way he does. Why aren't we bashing putin right now?
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He's losing support from people. For decades, the past goverments used to benefit only the rich class of venezuela, chavez gave the low class a chance to get some (to not say all) of that too.
Sadly, people is now seeing that chavez is wasting their oil by giving the money coming from it, to countries such as cuba, peru, bolivia, argentina, etc.
Just to backup my point: Since chavez got the power, there has been no real changes in the old oil fields, they are still using old technology when they could have improved everything.
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acutally he's always claimed this, this has always been an accusation he has refuted. Doesn't this back that up? I hate to tell you all this but he has enough support in the military that he could have easily, many times taken a more agressive path. Had it not been for him having a significant pro-chavez faction in the military, the coup would have not been stopped. Like him or not, he has put everything up to the people, if that's not democracy, I have no idea what is. So really, the "play democratic" is bullshit. Sorry, he's backed it up over and over.
The air force, the most powerful in Venezuela is neither for Chavez nor against him. They are for democracy. If Chavez tries to use the military to get his way, the air force will oppose him.
Berserker, are you an American? Just out of curiosity, America elected W. Bush, then re-elected him. Many Americans are not happy about that, but it happened anyway. How do you feel about W. Bush pushing congress to amend the constitution to allow him to be re-elected over and over again and America going for it?
In my opinion, any leader wishing to be re-elected over and over again, consecutively, is not about democracy at all. Such a leader is a power hungry dictator wannabe.
BTW, have you noticed how fat Chavez has gotten since he became president, while the poor get poorer and the hungry starve to death? Fat boy is eating good these days. He has gotten used to the good life and wants to keep it up for the rest of his life.
Before
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6f/Hugo_Ch%C3%A1vez_%281992_Coup_Surrender%29.jpg)
After
(http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/news/_files/Image/november28/chavez2.jpg)
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The air force, the most powerful in Venezuela is neither for Chavez nor against him. They are for democracy.
Berserker, are you an American? Just out of curiosity, America elected W. Bush, then re-elected him. Many Americans are not happy about that, but it happened anyway. How do you feel about W. Bush pushing congress to amend the constitution to allow him to be re-elected over and over again and America going for it?
In my opinion, any leader wishing to be re-elected over and over again, consecutively, is not about democracy at all. Such a leader is a power hungry dictator wannabe.
BTW, have you noticed how fat Chavez has gotten since he became president, while the poor get poorer and the hungry starve to death? Fat boy is eating good these days. He has gotten used to the good life and wants to keep it up for the rest of his life.
actually there is a pro-Chavez element in the military. Indeed they did help in ending the coup attempt. No not the Generals but there is undeniably an element in the military that would back Chavez. My only point was that he did not, once elected, take a more aggressive path and did indeed keep the people's vote in mind. I have never personally been for term limits, but at the same time I question the motives of career politicans as everyone should. But in the end, if the people want George goddamned W Bush for life and keep electing him, well.... I wouldn't like it, but the people obviously want it... so.... booya! :D And you're full of shit on the starve to death bullshit, save it!!!! The unemployment rate has dropped to 7% despite all the shenanigans of the opposition with their dumb ass boycotts, coup attempts and sabotage attempts. "197,323 fewer people are unemployed in comparison to October 2006" Have you seen a market in Venezuela? Starving to death ::) The one thing they're not doing is starving ::)
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Your before picture is way before. He was much younger there, I think that was taken early 90's He's about the same weight as he was when he was elected... nice try.
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And you're full of shit on the starve to death bullshit, save it!!!! The unemployment rate has dropped to 7% despite all the senanigans of the opposition with their dumb ass boycotts, coup attempts and sabatoge attempts. "197,323 fewer people are unemployed in comparison to October 2006" Have you seen a market in Venezuala? Starving to death ::) The one thing they're not doing is starving ::)
The poor in Venezuela are starving. Things are getting worse. Why don't cha come over here and see for yourself? Luckily, I have a large family of semi-middle class professionals who stick together and help each other out with food, basic needs and stuff like that, but things are getting worse. There are a few of the poor who Chavez helps just for publicity and socialist propaganda, but that does not reach the great majority of the poor.
Hey, wasn't it you who posted that documentary done by some British guy? Remember the British guy asking Chavez why the poor in Venezuela are still poor? What was Chavez's answer? "I always tell the poor, you don't want to be wealthy like the Americans, you want to have just enough"....ha ha ha. All the while he is living the good life, better life than the average American business owner.
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Your before picture is way before. He was much younger there, I think that was taken early 90's He's about the same weight as he was when he was elected... nice try.
Age and time have nothing to do with it.
Ron Paul:
Before:
(http://www.illuminati-news.com/graphics/ron-paul.gif)
After
(http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/congress/members/photos/228/P000583.jpg)
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You said since he took office, that's not correct... Good god grow up man... who gives a fuck rats ass about his weight ::) I don't fucking care if he looks like Jaba the hut. But since you're all into his looks ::) A poll conducted in Venezuala placed Chavez in the top 5 most sexy... I guess my father still has it ;D
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The poor in Venezuela are starving. Things are getting worse. Why don't cha come over here and see for yourself? Luckily, I have a large family of semi-middle class professionals who stick together and help each other out with food, basic needs and stuff like that, but things are getting worse. There are a few of the poor who Chavez helps just for publicity and socialist propaganda, but that does not reach the great majority of the poor.
Hey, wasn't it you who posted that documentary done by some British guy? Remember the British guy asking Chavez why the poor in Venezuela are still poor? What was Chavez's answer? "I always tell the poor, you don't want to be wealthy like the Americans, you want to have just enough"....ha ha ha. All the while he is living the good life, better life than the average American business owner.
What a load of bullshit...
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Luckily, I have a large family of semi-middle class professionals who stick together and help each other out with food, basic needs and stuff like that, but things are getting worse.
I have to quote this one more time.... Complete and utter bullshit... It's absolutely laughable and people would know it if you didn't have CNN and all the rest backing these kind of crap ass lies ::)
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I have to quote this one more time.... Complete and utter bullshit... It's absolutely laughable and people would know it if you didn't have CNN and all the rest backing these kind of crap ass lies ::)
You think he's lying about his family? I doubt loco would make up facts to try and prove a point.
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You think he's lying about his family? I doubt loco would make up facts to try and prove a point.
On this one, I'm totally calling him out as exaggerating his ass off... I know of families in this position in Venezuela and it's overblown like you wouldn't believe. So much so it's a joke. Do you know Loco? What do yo base your doubt on? You doubt someone would blow something out of proportion for political gain? PULEASE ::)
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On this one, I'm totally calling him out as exaggerating his ass off... I know of families in this position in Venezuela and it's overblown like you wouldn't believe. So much so it's a joke. Do you know Loco? What do yo base your doubt on? You doubt someone would blow something out of proportion for political gain? PULEASE ::)
I've never met loco, but I think he's honest based on numerous posts I've read on this site.
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I've never met loco, but I think he's honest based on numerous posts I've read on this site.
and??? that can't be your only response?
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and??? that can't be your only response?
Ooookay. What more do I need to say? He made a statement. I think he's honest. I see no reason why he would lie about his family.
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Ooookay. What more do I need to say? He made a statement. I think he's honest. I see no reason why he would lie about his family.
Jesus Christ... If I ever end up in court, I hope to hell I don't get someone like you on the jury ::) You can't actually tell me you couldn't imagine why someone would mislead on this subject... For shit sake, I can show you half a dozen misleading stories in the main stream media on Chavez... It doesn't take a freaking genius to figure out motive ::)
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Thanks Beach Bum, for giving me the benefit of the doubt! It could be a lot worse for my family, but it's not...yet.
Mine is a large, lower middle class family of physics, math, geography, history, computer science, and English high school teachers and university professors. I don't see how low income teachers can have any political gain in this. Some of my family even voted for and supported Chavez at the beginning, but after seeing how little he has done for the country with all the time, money and support he has, they no longer support him.
No hard feelings, Berserker! The truth about Castro, Pinochet, etc. and their abuse of power eventually came to the light in the media. I can safely assume it will be the same with Chavez. I think I'll just stop here before I reveal too much about myself and about my family. I've said enough already. I could get myself and my family in trouble, especially certain family members of mine. You never know who is reading this. A discussion board on the Internet is not worth it. Have a great day!
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Thanks Beach Bum, for giving me the benefit of the doubt! It could be a lot worse for my family, but it's not...yet.
Mine is a large, lower middle class family of physics, math, geography, history, computer science, and English high school teachers and university professors. I don't see how low income teachers can have any political gain in this. Some of my family even voted for and supported Chavez at the beginning, but after seeing how little he has done for the country with all the time, money and support he has, they no longer support him.
No hard feelings, Berserker! The truth about Castro, Pinochet, etc. and their abuse of power eventually came to the light in the media. I can safely assume it will be the same with Chavez. I think I'll just stop here before I reveal too much about myself and about my family. I've said enough already. I could get myself and my family in trouble, especially certain family members of mine. You never know who is reading this. A discussion board on the Internet is not worth it. Have a great day!
You are so laughable... LMAO ;D know you are full of shit, Chavez and Pinochet???????? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHa... Yes loco, you picked a good name
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You are so laughable... LMAO ;D know you are full of shit, Chavez and Pinochet???????? BWHAHAHAHAHAHAAHa... Yes loco, you picked a good name
You are right, Berserker! I'm full of it. Glad I can amuse you!
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You are right, Berserker! I'm full of it. Glad I can amuse you!
Oh yea, you showed your hand with the Pinochet comparison. It is laughable. If there were even a speck of proof that Chavez is doing what Pinochet did, we'd be all over that country with troops... The only reason it didn't happen with Pinochet was because he disappeared and tortured leftists or suspected leftists which is something we train people for right here in America at the School of the Americas which is an American santioned terror training camp right here on our soil. This crap has happend all over Central and South America and it's absolutely hilarious you'd try to play that card against Chavez knowing how often it's happened on the right... If there were hard facts on this being the case, it would be plastered on American Media and we'd have sent troops in so yea, I call bullshit.
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Oh yea, you showed your hand with the Pinochet comparison. It is laughable. If there were even a speck of proof that Chavez is doing what Pinochet did, we'd be all over that country with troops... The only reason it didn't happen with Pinochet was because he disappeared and tortured leftists or suspected leftists which is something we train people for right here in America at the School of the Americas which is an American santioned terror training camp right here on our soil. This crap has happend all over Central and South America and it's absolutely hilarious you'd try to play that card against Chavez knowing how often it's happened on the right... If there were hard facts on this being the case, it would be plastered on American Media and we'd have sent troops in so yea, I call bullshit.
Hey, I never said Chavez is currently torturing and murdering the opposition...not yet anyway and I hope he never does, though it is something we fear very much. Venezuelans have good reason to fear this as they went through this with former Venezuelan dictators general Juan Vicente Gómez between 1908 and 1935, and Marcos Evangelista Pérez Jiménez between 1952 and 1958. Like most dictators, these two were not tolerant of criticism and their governments ruthlessly pursued and suppressed the opposition in Venezuela.
My comparison was that as the truth about dictators such as Castro and Pinochet abusing their power came to light, likewise the truth about Chavez abusing his power will come to light. He is a dictator wannabe and he is abusing his power. Don't believe me? Will you believe John Pilger, who is a Chavez supporter? In one of his documentaries, John Pilger admits that Chavez has denied Venezuelans some basic rights and liberties, then he justified it by saying that Chavez says he is doing this only to accelerate reform...yeah right. Did you not watch the documentary you posted?
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Hey, I never said Chavez is currently torturing and murdering the opposition...not yet anyway and I hope he never does, though it is something we fear very much. Venezuelans have good reason to fear this as they went through this with former Venezuelan dictators general Juan Vicente Gómez between 1908 and 1935, and Marcos Evangelista Pérez Jiménez between 1952 and 1958. Like most dictators, these two were not tolerant of criticism and their governments ruthlessly pursued and suppressed the opposition in Venezuela.
My comparison was that as the truth about dictators such as Castro and Pinochet abusing their power came to light, likewise the truth about Chavez abusing his power will come to light. He is a dictator wannabe and he is abusing his power. Don't believe me? Will you believe John Pilger, who is a Chavez supporter? In one of his documentaries, John Pilger admits that Chavez has denied Venezuelans some basic rights and liberties, then he justified it by saying that Chavez says he is doing this only to accelerate reform...yeah right. Did you not watch the documentary you posted?
::) Gee, why on earth would a leader be lead down such a road? Can you honestly say there would be an issue if crap like this (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=184197.0) wasn't an issue? What do you want? Every single leader that doesn't follow Washington's dictates to just roll over and expose their bellies to the carnivores? http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=184197.0 Who's really to blame huh??? You want to match up tactics from leftists vs. the right in Central and South America, you're going to lose this argument bigtime...
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::) Gee, why on earth would a leader be lead down such a road? Can you honestly say there would be an issue if crap like this (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=184197.0) wasn't an issue? What do you want? Every single leader that doesn't follow Washington's dictates to just roll over and expose their bellies to the carnivores? http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=184197.0 Who's really to blame huh??? You want to match up tactics from leftists vs. the right in Central and South America, you're going to lose this argument bigtime...
Berserker, did or did not John Pilger admit that Chavez has denied Venezuelans some basic rights and liberties, then he justified it by saying that Chavez says he is doing this only to accelerate reform?
I don't care about winning or losing arguments. I care about my family. I don't want Venezuela under a dictatorship again. Would you want that for your family? What is it with you and your love for Chavez anyway? If Washinton is so bad and Chavez so good, then give up your American citizenship and move to Venezuela.
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Jesus Christ... If I ever end up in court, I hope to hell I don't get someone like you on the jury ::) You can't actually tell me you couldn't imagine why someone would mislead on this subject... For shit sake, I can show you half a dozen misleading stories in the main stream media on Chavez... It doesn't take a freaking genius to figure out motive ::)
We're not talking about someone. We're talking about loco. And no, after reading his posts on this site, I can't imagine why he would try and mislead you on this subject. I'd say he is pretty credible overall and the fact he lives in Venezuela enhances his credibility even more.
But not something worth debating.
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(http://www.thewe.cc/thewei/&_/images8/venezuela/saddam_hussein_hugo_chavez.jpe)
Two courageous leaders.
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Berserker, did or did not John Pilger admit that Chavez has denied Venezuelans some basic rights and liberties, then he justified it by saying that Chavez says he is doing this only to accelerate reform?
I don't care about winning or losing arguments. I care about my family. I don't want Venezuela under a dictatorship again. Would you want that for your family? What is it with you and your love for Chavez anyway? If Washinton is so bad and Chavez so good, then give up your American citizenship and move to Venezuela.
I've posted the whole video, pinned so people can see exactly what John Pilger said. So glad you bring John into the argument :) and I hope people will take the time to view it and have a better understanding of America's role throughout Latin America.
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Voters reject Chavez's referendum
"...The most controversial amendment would do away with term limits, thereby allowing the 53-year-old former paratrooper, who has already served almost eight years in power, to hold it indefinitely as long as he is re-elected..."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/12/03/venezuela.referendum/index.html
Venezuela rejects bid by Chávez to amend charter
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/03/america/venez.php
I think it was great that the "No!" side won.
And I was very pleased to see that Chavez accepting the result, it was something that gave me hope that he has a wish for a legit Democracy in Venezuela.
Recent events, eg when Chavez and the Spanish king had their run-in, and Chavez failing in Colombia, had me very worried.
I genuinely hope that the Western world will support Venezuela, and refrain from the gangster methods that is Reagan's legacy of handling the South America region in the 80's.
That kind of stupidity has effectively sabotaged Democracy in the region for 30 years.