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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Princess L on December 11, 2007, 08:51:54 PM
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I found it a little awkward at first, but after I got used to it I was able to do more weight than usual.
Not the greatest picture :-\
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Not yet, a member just brought one in, said it was OK to use it, just put it back in the same spot for him. I'm going to try it next week.
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I used one for a time when I injured my shoulder and was unable to hold a bar behind my neck.
I believe I heard one of the veterans at my gym refer to it as a Hatfield (as in Fred) bar.
Do you hold onto the rack while executing the squat?
I’ve seen plenty of people do this. After trying it myself, yes, it is possible to handle more weight.
Though in my mind, holding on kind of makes the movement analogous to using a machine.
If you’re grabbing onto something for balance, you’re almost pushing the weight through just one plane of motion because you’re no longer using the ancillary muscles to balance it.
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I used one for a time when I injured my shoulder and was unable to hold a bar behind my neck.
I believe I heard one of the veterans at my gym refer to it as a Hatfield (as in Fred) bar.
Do you hold onto the rack while executing the squat?
I’ve seen plenty of people do this. After trying it myself, yes, it is possible to handle more weight.
Though in my mind, holding on kind of makes the movement analogous to using a machine.
If you’re grabbing onto something for balance, you’re almost pushing the weight through just one plane of motion because you’re no longer using the ancillary muscles to balance it.
At first I held on, but it seemed very "wobbly" ~ probably cuz it was new to me. Once I was able to stabilize and let go, it was much easier. Putting a finger or two on the rack pegs helped (more mentally than anything).
Here's another mental thing (or maybe it's not :-\ I'm not a physics major ???) I find it easier to squat with smaller plates than big ones (of the same weight). So say I'm doing 135 (I know ::)) I load it with quarters and dimes rather than 45s.
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That pic's hard to see.
The bar itself-whatever works it will help some. Draper's got something like this, Zane used to might still sell it.
The rack's also key, IMO-racks like this are great because with heavier exercises like squats, the danger of getting stuck prevents training to failure as with other exercises. A rack allows harder training without worrying.
Not like a machine, no. The ROM is like free weights. Nothing wrong with machines though, that whole theory that the ROM's too rigid is both unproven and is countered by equal advantages.
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Never seen a squat safety bar in my life - I've always stuck to the smith machine whenever I was lifting heavier weights than normal and a bit worried about balance issues with free-weight squats.
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That pic's hard to see.
The bar itself-whatever works it will help some. Draper's got something like this, Zane used to might still sell it.
The rack's also key, IMO-racks like this are great because with heavier exercises like squats, the danger of getting stuck prevents training to failure as with other exercises. A rack allows harder training without worrying.
Not like a machine, no. The ROM is like free weights. Nothing wrong with machines though, that whole theory that the ROM's too rigid is both unproven and is countered by equal advantages.
That one looks like it's wrapped up with electrical tape :D pretty hard core.
I like this one :P
(http://www.power-systems.com/Photos/Sku/2675.jpg)
:-\ wait ~ this one doesn't have perpendicular handles :-\
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In the Nov issue of PowerLifting USA there is an article by Louie Simmons about his new Zercher harness which makes total sense. Improve anyone's strength and leg mass with this one. Requires more of a proper squating stance, which can relieve much lower back stress. And no serious hand involvement is needed. Might be a great advantage when used for BB'ing. Also could erase any of the tension that the front squat can give some people. Theory around, for many years, is that any squat, with the weight held below the shoulder girdle is better all around. And any exercise with the weight below the hip region is the most superior of all when it comes to raw power and leg development. Something like belt squats and hip lifts come to mind. Even the DL can fall into this class of below the hip region area. Even thinking of the old Jefferson lift in this regard.
That first bar pictured (supplied by Pumpster) is a cam'ed bar. But the handles/grips seem a little short for proper use. In the second picture (supplied by Pumpster) you can see that the plates/weight are lower down a bit from the shoulder girdle, giving a better squating dynamic for most people. The yoke is in place, but the center of the work load/weight has dropped down a bit.The one's I have used have the handles a littler longer and usually wrapped with duct tape. They can really improve anyone's squat, in style and proper form, with a whole new approach to the confidence factor when working under heavy loads.
As the Lovely Princess L was stating, most any form of squating requires a learning period. Just takes reps to get the motor units under proper function. I really can not tell by the picture what that version of her safety bar is. Good Luck.
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That pic's hard to see.
The bar itself-whatever works it will help some. Draper's got something like this, Zane used to might still sell it.
The rack's also key, IMO-racks like this are great because with heavier exercises like squats, the danger of getting stuck prevents training to failure as with other exercises. A rack allows harder training without worrying.
Not like a machine, no. The ROM is like free weights. Nothing wrong with machines though, that whole theory that the ROM's too rigid is both unproven and is countered by equal advantages.
yeah the original Hatfield safety squat bar just like the one pictured had a set of handles that you could put on the power rack and help to push yourself out of the bottom of the last few tough reps, the bar is heavy usually like 60-65 pounds, awesome bar.
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You can see Lee Priest using it here, holding onto the rack.
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You can see Lee Priest using it here, holding onto the rack.
Rusty doesn't look like he's having a good time towards the end of that clip... :-\
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You can see Lee Priest using it here, holding onto the rack.
Ya, he's def holding on. Right or wrong, I just put my fingers on the pegs. Looking through Youtube, it looks like this bar is used a lot in the powerlifting arena for box squats and with chains. I can not for the life of me do front squats. Getting the bar in position hurts like he!!. I wonder if you could use this bar turned around ???
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yeah the original Hatfield safety squat bar just like the one pictured had a set of handles that you could put on the power rack and help to push yourself out of the bottom of the last few tough reps, the bar is heavy usually like 60-65 pounds, awesome bar.
Yep.
We had the handles along with the bar.
I used to see a lot of guys position the handles way up high and basically pull themselves up to complete the rep (as opposed to just helping them get out of the hole).
This technique was often accompanied by a 2/3 rep.
The veterans more often placed the handles lower and only used them when needed.
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I can not for the life of me do front squats. Getting the bar in position hurts like he!!. I wonder if you could use this bar turned around ???
Where/how does it hurt?
Charles Poloquin once detailed a technique using lifting straps to help hold the bar in position for a front squat.
I believe someone posted a pic of this method here a while back.
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Where/how does it hurt?
Charles Poloquin once detailed a technique using lifting straps to help hold the bar in position for a front squat.
I believe someone posted a pic of this method here a while back.
My wrists are not strong enough or flexible enough to hold the bar and the weight in the proper position. So if I get into the "I Dream of Jeanie" stance ~ with the bar under the neck resting on the front delts, it wants roll off. In order for it not to roll, ya gotta hike it up, keeping the elbows up and still resting on the delts. THAT HURTS :'( I guess I don't have enough meat up there :P
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Princess the most important thing is to keep your head up the whole time, eventually it will become second nature and that will keep the bar from rolling down, the second you start looking downwards that bar will start to roll on you, honestly i've never seen the benefit of doing front squats over regular back squats anyway.
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My wrists are not strong enough or flexible enough to hold the bar and the weight in the proper position. So if I get into the "I Dream of Jeanie" stance ~ with the bar under the neck resting on the front delts, it wants roll off. In order for it not to roll, ya gotta hike it up, keeping the elbows up and still resting on the delts. THAT HURTS :'( I guess I don't have enough meat up there :P
Here’s a pic. & link:
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1401530 (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1401530)
(http://www.t-nation.com/img/photos/07-005-training/image005.png)
In a nutshell, you basically loop the strap around the bar and hold the long ends using a hammer grip. This eliminates the need for the Barbara Eden technique.
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Here’s a pic. & link:
In a nutshell, you basically loop the strap around the bar and hold the long ends using a hammer grip. This eliminates the need for the Barbara Eden technique.
I realize that some like front squats and say it hits the muscles slightly differently, but this sounds like a lot of work. Just do the damn standard squats. ;)
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Both types of squats are good and many switch and find one to be a better fit for them. Eddie Robinson, PLer and BBer, swore by front squats and eventually discontinue regular squatting. Bob Chick recommends them for taller BBers and those with long legs. If front squats suit you do them. Don't do back squats just because but try them to evaluate the exercise; the same with front squats.
I do front squats and would never strap up like that though. I do them Coleman style and have tried the Milos style with arms straight forward (not easy with heavy weight). It always seemed more natural to me for some reason.
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Both types of squats are good and many switch and find one to be a better fit for them. Eddie Robinson, PLer and BBer, swore by front squats and eventually discontinue regular squatting. Bob Chick recommends them for taller BBers and those with long legs. If front squats suit you do them. Don't do back squats just because but try them to evaluate the exercise; the same with front squats.
I do front squats and would never strap up like that though. I do them Coleman style and have tried the Milos style with arms straight forward (not easy with heavy weight). It always seemed more natural to me for some reason.
I feel front squats a lot more in the quads, I do them every so often for variety but like backsquats better.
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I feel front squats a lot more in the quads, I do them every so often for variety but like backsquats better.
Good choice. My build just dictates I train differently so I roll with it but I would encourage people to do both if they can safely. I find that front squats has helped my Olympic Cleans so it has a dual benefit.
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Front squats hurt like hell and screw my shoulders for a week >:(
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Front squats hurt like hell and screw my shoulders for a week >:(
I have also had shoulder injuries from front squats
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Princess the most important thing is to keep your head up the whole time, eventually it will become second nature and that will keep the bar from rolling down, the second you start looking downwards that bar will start to roll on you, honestly i've never seen the benefit of doing front squats over regular back squats anyway.
Here’s a pic. & link:
http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1401530 (http://www.t-nation.com/readArticle.do?id=1401530)
In a nutshell, you basically loop the strap around the bar and hold the long ends using a hammer grip. This eliminates the need for the Barbara Eden technique.
Front squats hurt like hell and screw my shoulders for a week >:(
I have also had shoulder injuries from front squats
Well, at least now I don't feel so bad. I'm not the only one that finds them hard/impossible and I don't feel so bad not having them as part of my regime. Thanks for all the advice and tips, but I think I'm just going to stick with back squats.
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Princess, I actually like the way front squats feel on my quads better that reg squats, but once I get to a certain weight, to work the muscle, it becomes very uncomfortable on the front delts. If I knew of a way to keep the bar off my delts, I would do front squats more often.
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Princess,tape your wrists with athletic tape during front squats....might help a bit.
Pumpster,the two lifts are much different and front squats are a great exercise,to say not to do them would definately be shortchanging yourself.
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How is taping your wrists going to help the shoulder pain from the bar?
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Since I had given up on front squats long ago, I came up with this alternative. I'm the only one in the gym that does it, so maybe I'm totally off my rocker. :P I use the perfect squatter, but turned around. I think people are afraid they're gonna get the stick up the butt ;D but if you keep perfect form that won't happen. If you have one of these at your gym, try it. Let me know what you think.
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Since I had given up on front squats long ago, I came up with this alternative. I'm the only one in the gym that does it, so maybe I'm totally off my rocker. :P I use the perfect squatter, but turned around. I think people are afraid they're gonna get the stick up the butt ;D but if you keep perfect form that won't happen. If you have one of these at your gym, try it. Let me know what you think.
Some would consider that multi-tasking.
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Since I had given up on front squats long ago, I came up with this alternative. I'm the only one in the gym that does it, so maybe I'm totally off my rocker. :P I use the perfect squatter, but turned around. I think people are afraid they're gonna get the stick up the butt ;D but if you keep perfect form that won't happen. If you have one of these at your gym, try it. Let me know what you think.
I have no doubt that some of these machines provide a great workout. Each has to be tried, facing in both directions.
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Since I had given up on front squats long ago, I came up with this alternative. I'm the only one in the gym that does it, so maybe I'm totally off my rocker. :P I use the perfect squatter, but turned around. I think people are afraid they're gonna get the stick up the butt ;D but if you keep perfect form that won't happen. If you have one of these at your gym, try it. Let me know what you think.
that's actually a great machine Princess, nothing wrong with that at all, too many guys around here get caught up in the "hardcore" bb squats or nothing horseshit, those machines are fantastic.
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Rusty doesn't look like he's having a good time towards the end of that clip... :-\
I was on the treadmill when they were filming that...they were doing a superset of bench, squats and deadlifts of 20 reps each...I was feeling sick watching them!!