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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Tre on December 20, 2007, 06:14:00 PM
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Curt Schilling wants Roger Clemens to prove he *didn't* use.
How f'ing stupid is that?
His comments show just how stupid America is when it comes to this idiotic witch hunt.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=3162301
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Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling called on Roger Clemens to give up the four Cy Young Awards he's won since 1997 if he can't clear his name from allegations that he used steroids to prolong and enhance his career.
"If he doesn't do that then there aren't many options as a fan for me other than to believe his career 192 wins and three Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end," Schilling wrote Wednesday in his blog, 38pitches.com. "From that point on the numbers were attained through using (performance-enhancing drugs). Just like I stated about Jose (Canseco), if that is the case with Roger, the four Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners, and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations."
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Schilling can go eat a fat dick.
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What's wrong with what Schill said. I agree whole heartedly. If he cheated, he should give them back. Hell, these players are no different then Pete Rose. He gets villified for what he did as a manager too. These guys are still playing!!! Marion Jones cheated and had to give back her medals, that American Tour de France dude got caught and lost his title. Why is Roger any different??? Same thing with Bonds
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SOUNDS LIKE SCHILLING HAS THIS ALL WRONG.. IT IS NOT UP TO CLEMENS TO PROVE HEID NOT DO IT.. IT IS UP TO SCHILLING AND OTHER TO PROVE HE DID DO IT.. SINCE THERE WAS NO TESTING BACK THEN, HOW THE HELL IS HE SUPPOSED TO PROVE HIS INNOCENTS..
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What's wrong with what Schill said. I agree whole heartedly. If he cheated, he should give them back. Hell, these players are no different then Pete Rose. He gets villified for what he did as a manager too. These guys are still playing!!! Marion Jones cheated and had to give back her medals, that American Tour de France dude got caught and lost his title. Why is Roger any different??? Same thing with Bonds
problem with that is that you have to then prove that the second, third, fourth, etc. guy in line for the Cy Young behind him were clean and that's nearly impossible, again NOTHING HAS BEEN PROVEN.
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What's wrong with what Schill said. I agree whole heartedly. If he cheated, he should give them back. Hell, these players are no different then Pete Rose. He gets villified for what he did as a manager too. These guys are still playing!!! Marion Jones cheated and had to give back her medals, that American Tour de France dude got caught and lost his title. Why is Roger any different??? Same thing with Bonds
You sir, are an idiot.
Hope this helps
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You sir, are an idiot.
Hope this helps
HAHA Thanks for playing....bye now
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Seriously you are clueless.
So should world series winners be stripped if anyone on the team gets "accused" of juice?
Should we give it to the other team then? What if someone on that team gets "accused"?
Get all those players from 10years ago back on the field to play 1 more game?
It is what it is, and everyone uses.
The only people who care are those who were never good enough to make it, and now they have a scapegoat for why everyone else was better.
In closing, you are pathetic.
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last time I checked the Cy Young award, MVP, etc was an individual award. Schilling never said Clemens should give back his World Series ring...individual awards(ie-gold medals, Tour de France, CY Young, etc)....who's clueless now...must be a Yankees fan!!!
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Actually Marion Jones AND her teammates were ALL forced to give their medals back.
No I'm not a yankees fan, but you're clearly a sox fan. Ortiz is on shit, so.....
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What's wrong with what Schill said. I agree whole heartedly. If he cheated, he should give them back.
So, the onus is on Clemens to prove his urine was clean 7 years ago??
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Luga was the best baseball player in all of little league.
He would have been drafted by the Red Sox one day.....
but he refused to take "performance enhancing drugs"
Now he works for UPS, but is still a legend at the local batting cages.
::)
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last time I checked the Cy Young award, MVP, etc was an individual award. Schilling never said Clemens should give back his World Series ring...individual awards(ie-gold medals, Tour de France, CY Young, etc)....who's clueless now...must be a Yankees fan!!!
It's still a ridiculous challenge. Go find your pee from 7-8 years ago and show me that it's clean.
Roger should have to do it as soon as Schilling proves that his trick ass was clean back then, too.
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It's still a ridiculous challenge. Go find your pee from 7-8 years ago and show me that it's clean.
Roger should have to do it as soon as Schilling proves that his trick ass was clean back then, too.
Exactly...odds are Schilling has taken something in the past too...maybe he's trying to position himself for a future witchhunt that points the finger at him. Even so, still an asshole move IMO.
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being as how they were not a banned substance then.. he was not cheating.. baseball set the regulations.. if he was within the regulations, he was not cheating..
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Schilling should give back his World Series ring that he won while playing for Arizona...Because as we know, Matt Williams used gear and played for them while winning the series...
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Schilling should give back his World Series ring that he won while playing for Arizona...Because as we know, Matt Williams used gear and played for them while winning the series...
Schilling and John Smoltz are essentially making good points.
They do go out of their way to say that they are Clemens fans.
However, they are saying it should really be simple for Roger to prove his 'cleanness'.
Stand up strong, offer to boldly take and pass any polygraph or other detection testing system MLB may have to offer, lay it on the line and tell the truth.
If the truth is that he was clean, he needn't posture anymore and put up the front he is currently erecting.
It would seem to be simple math. Maybe it isn't though. I don't know.
I am a fan of very few sports or athletes, for what it is worth.
Mike
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Schilling and John Smoltz are essentially making good points.
They do go out of their way to say that they are Clemens fans.
However, they are saying it should really be simple for Roger to prove his 'cleanness'.
Stand up strong, offer to boldly take and pass any polygraph or other detection testing system MLB may have to offer, lay it on the line and tell the truth.
If the truth is that he was clean, he needn't posture anymore and put up the front he is currently erecting.
It would seem to be simple math. Maybe it isn't though. I don't know.
I am a fan of very few sports or athletes, for what it is worth.
Mike
Everyone is missing the point. It's not up to Clemens to "prove" anything... his accusers have to prove their case, otherwise he's innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it works in America, but it seems like the 50% of Americans with double-digit IQ's always forget that. For example, I could publicly say, "Mike is a child mollester". Would that mean that you ARE a child mollester unless you could prove that you're not? Of course not...you don't have to prove anything in that case... it is up to the person making the accusation to offer solid proof.
PS: even if Clemens did have the burden of proof, which he doesn't, a polygraph doesn't prove anything... they are notoriously unreliable, and can be beaten or give false positives which is why they are inadmissible in court.
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Everyone is missing the point. It's not up to Clemens to "prove" anything... his accusers have to prove their case, otherwise he's innocent until proven guilty.
no ...you're missing the point,clemens is'nt dealing with the courts and the legal system.he's gonna be tried in the court of public opinion,and the same court of public opinion reaches into the writers that eventually vote him into the hall.....
an innocent man dos'nt send messages through his freaking lawyer,an innocent man faces the public as soon as the report was released IN FRONT OF CAMERAS and denies all allegations
rogers window for credibility was the first 24 hours after the claims were made public....
now he's stuck in damage control mode !
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no ...you're missing the point,clemens is'nt dealing with the courts and the legal system.he's gonna be tried in the court of public opinion,and the same court of public opinion reaches into the writers that eventually vote him into the hall.....
an innocent man dos'nt send messages through his freaking lawyer,an innocent man faces the public as soon as the report was released IN FRONT OF CAMERAS and denies all allegations
roger window for credibility was the first 24 hours after the claims were made public....
now he's stuck in damage control mode !
It doesn't matter if it's a court case or not, the principle is the same. Otherwise, anyone could accuse anyone of anything without any offer of solid proof, and it would just be accepted at face value.
Geo is a kiddy-diddler! I don't have any proof, but it doesn't matter... I said it, therefore you have to prove you're not! If you can't, your new getbig.com name will henceforth be "Short-Eyes". ::)
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It doesn't matter if it's a court case or not, the principle is the same. Otherwise, anyone could accuse anyone of anything without any offer of solid proof, and it would just be accepted at face value.
Geo is a kiddy-diddler! I don't have any proof, but it doesn't matter... I said it, therefore you have to prove you're not! If you can't, your new getbig.com name will henceforth be "Short-Eyes". ::)
well if I don't get into the kiddy didler hall of fame I'm probably gonna have to hunt ya down and kick ya in your pussy !
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well if I don't get into the kiddy didler hall of fame I'm probably gonna have to hunt ya down and kick ya in your pussy !
shut up, short-eyes!
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Goatboy is right. And the court of public opinion sure as hell cant force him to give his Cy Young's back.
Steroids werent even banned when he's accused of taking them, and there is no way to PROVE who took what 10 years ago. Clemens should just say "yes I took them, but I got them from Schilling".
Then tell curt to dig up some of his old urine to prove otherwise. Its a fukin joke.
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Everyone is missing the point. It's not up to Clemens to "prove" anything... his accusers have to prove their case, otherwise he's innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it works in America, but it seems like the 50% of Americans with double-digit IQ's always forget that. For example, I could publicly say, "Mike is a child mollester". Would that mean that you ARE a child mollester unless you could prove that you're not? Of course not...you don't have to prove anything in that case... it is up to the person making the accusation to offer solid proof.
PS: even if Clemens did have the burden of proof, which he doesn't, a polygraph doesn't prove anything... they are notoriously unreliable, and can be beaten or give false positives which is why they are inadmissible in court.
Your words ring somewhat true, Mr. Goatboy.
Why do you attack IQ's...?
I don't know what mine is, but I have several degrees plus doctorate...but that, too, is not the point.
Do remember this, for our Mr. Clemens, in particular:
"With every statement made, if true or not, there is germinated a seed of truth and belief in the minds of the beholders.
True or not; the burden of it being Clemens to prove or disprove or not, his Hall of Fame Goose may very well be cooked, fair or not.
If I were hnim, and was not guilty, I would be out there taking every test in thge book and simply prove my innocence. It'd go a long way in the book of the BB HOF writers/voters.
He'd be doing something noone else has done, and he'd win big points in doing so.
Mike
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You guys are morons. Clemens needs to prove his innocence because the evidence of his drug purchases is very strong. That's why this is a big deal...the source that has put Clemens on Front Street has proven to be reliable. The allegations wouldn't be this strong if the witness that was given immunity wasn't legit.
Besides, Clemens is an asshole who everyone watching baseball knew was juiced. It's gonna be a long time before his fat head makes the HOF, and I for one am glad.
Fuckin' bunch of drug sympathizers on this board.
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Steroids werent even banned when he's accused of taking them,
you're stupid !
they were illegal !
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Do remember this, for our Mr. Clemens, in particular:
"With every statement made, if true or not, there is germinated a seed of truth and belief in the minds of the beholders.
I understand this concept, and I have nothing but contempt for the unintelligent masses who can be swayed by often-repeated yet wholly unsupported statements. The public is like a bunch of sheep, completely without the ability to think critically.
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Schilling is a fat fuck who's never met an interviewer that he didn't like.
And what's to say that he wasn't clean himself? Fact is that he was never as good as Clemens.
His name just didn't pop in the investigations, but he's still methodical as any other, so why wouldn't he have taken anything?
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you're stupid "GEO". Illegal yes, but nothing about them in baseball.
Are they going to launch an investigation on weed in MLB?
You're just another angry guy who was never good at sports.
Blaming drugs is the pussy way out.
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Schilling is a fat fuck who's never met an interviewer that he didn't like.
And what's to say that he wasn't clean himself? Fact is that he was never as good as Clemens.
His name just didn't pop in the investigations, but he's still methodical as any other, so why wouldn't he have taken anything?
Schilling does indeed have a big mouth. He's an annoying, Bush-supporting moron. Nevertheless, Clemens is busted and shoud 'fess up. I hope they take all his CY Young awards away from that bloated a-hole.
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you're stupid "GEO". Illegal yes, but nothing about them in baseball.
Are they going to launch an investigation on weed in MLB?
You're just another angry guy who was never good at sports.
Blaming drugs is the pussy way out.
What makes you think Geo isn't an athlete?
This is Geo:
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I stand corrected. He looks like schilling. :P
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Nevertheless, Clemens is busted and shoud 'fess up.
Where is the evidence of his failed drug test(s)?
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Where is the evidence of his failed drug test(s)?
Its in the mouth of the guy who said he took them. That guy probably has 10 media interviews set, and is prepping to write a book. He's credible. ::)
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You guys are morons. Clemens needs to prove his innocence because the evidence of his drug purchases is very strong. That's why this is a big deal...the source that has put Clemens on Front Street has proven to be reliable. The allegations wouldn't be this strong if the witness that was given immunity wasn't legit.
Besides, Clemens is an asshole who everyone watching baseball knew was juiced. It's gonna be a long time before his fat head makes the HOF, and I for one am glad.
Fuckin' bunch of drug sympathizers on this board.
Why are you calling us morons?
I don't know if or even think that you are a moron, Benny.
And I am not pro or con on drugs.
Mike
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Curt has used drugs too
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Where is the evidence of his failed drug test(s)?
Well then Clemens should file a lawsuit for slander and let the drug informant testify so that EVERYTHING will come out. Just like Bonds or all of these other players just named could have done. Don't hold your breath for that lawsuit, homie. ::) Why? 'Cause Clemens has been juicin' for years.
It's basically one guy who has the goods on these players...you think Andy Pettitte would have 'fessed up on using HGH if he didn't know he couldn't worm his way out of this? And Pettitte and Clemens are best of friends...
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THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
Do you get it yet???
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THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
THEY ALL USE
Do you get it yet???
EVERYONE? Nah, I don't buy it, sorry. Of course a large percentage do. Much larger than those named in the Mitchell Report because once again, those names came from one source. But I don't believe every professional baseball player is willing to take hormones, especially if they realize they don't have to in order to play at a high level. It isn't like bodybuilding where in order compete at the top level the drugs become a requirement.
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What is the ethical argument against the use of HGH by athletes beyond the high school level?
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Shill has a big mouth and loves to hear himself talk.
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What's wrong with what Schill said. I agree whole heartedly. If he cheated, he should give them back. Hell, these players are no different then Pete Rose. He gets villified for what he did as a manager too. These guys are still playing!!! Marion Jones cheated and had to give back her medals, that American Tour de France dude got caught and lost his title. Why is Roger any different??? Same thing with Bonds
Hi Curt
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You guys are morons. Clemens needs to prove his innocence because the evidence of his drug purchases is very strong. That's why this is a big deal...the source that has put Clemens on Front Street has proven to be reliable. The allegations wouldn't be this strong if the witness that was given immunity wasn't legit.
Besides, Clemens is an asshole who everyone watching baseball knew was juiced. It's gonna be a long time before his fat head makes the HOF, and I for one am glad.
Fuckin' bunch of drug sympathizers on this board.
has nothing to do with being a "drug sympathizer", jackass, but this is America and a person is still innocent until PROVEN GUILTY and as of yet all we've heard is heresay, if the man is guilty let's see the PROOF.
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Schilling is a fuckin rat ass bitch...guarantee you he is'nt exactly clean himself...I really wish he was back in the Natl league so he could catch a few 90+ fastballs in the ear hole..what a fuckin doooooooooosh!
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has nothing to do with being a "drug sympathizer", jackass, but this is America and a person is still innocent until PROVEN GUILTY and as of yet all we've heard is heresay, if the man is guilty let's see the PROOF.
don't be surprised if receipts and a paper trail eventually closes the door on all doubt here
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Schilling is a fuckin rat ass bitch...guarantee you he is'nt exactly clean himself...I really wish he was back in the Natl league so he could catch a few 90+ fastballs in the ear hole..what a fuckin doooooooooosh!
wow, you sound like a tough guy.
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Schilling should give back his World Series ring that he won while playing for Arizona...Because as we know, Matt Williams used gear and played for them while winning the series...
Yup, he's enjoyed the success from teammates were obviously using. Don't forget this guy:
(http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/2004/06/17/gonzalez-ap.jpg)
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Curt has used drugs too
Yes, but he dips them in butter first.
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has nothing to do with being a "drug sympathizer", jackass, but this is America and a person is still innocent until PROVEN GUILTY and as of yet all we've heard is heresay, if the man is guilty let's see the PROOF.
Then Clemens should sue for slander. Why won't he? ::)
This isn't a court of law. MLB doesn't have to prove jack shit, you fat racist. They have the goods on Clemens and others.
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Then Clemens should sue for slander. Why won't he? ::)
Few people have the time or interest to engage in that sort of crap.
What makes you think Roger is any different? Like most Americans, he doesn't need the hassle.
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don't be surprised if receipts and a paper trail eventually closes the door on all doubt here
I know that I always insist on a receipt when I pay my heroin dealer!
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If MLB really wanted to inform us, they should publish results of all the failed drug tests that showed the threshold for usage had exceeded what the MLPA and baseball decided was reasonable. They have all of this information.
Instead, they hire a leading official from an MLB team who gets 70% of his information from one clubhouse drug dealer who was facing criminal charges. It was a smokescreen to make them appear that they've taken some action.
The whole thing stinks, and I think, in time, the court of public opinion will look at this whole "investigation" as a complete farce. It's credibility has already been tarnished and it's only been a little more that a week.
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Few people have the time or interest to engage in that sort of crap.
What makes you think Roger is any different? Like most Americans, he doesn't need the hassle.
The hassle? Give me a break...if his legacy is on the line he should fight the allegations. But he won't, because he is GUILTY AS SIN. As someone else stated, the paper trail that a lawsuit would bring would remove all doubt...
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The hassle? Give me a break...if his legacy is on the line he should fight the allegations. But he won't, because he is GUILTY AS SIN. As someone else stated, the paper trail that a lawsuit would bring would remove all doubt...
Among people with even basic common sense, his legacy is securely intact.
Among people with advanced common sense, no one cares whether he used or not...because they know many men get bigger as they get older.
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Among people with even basic common sense, his legacy is securely intact.
Among people with advanced common sense, no one cares whether he used or not...because they know many men get bigger as they get older.
Keep telling yourself that when you see the shitstorm that will follow him at every stadium next year should he not retire. Not to mention the HOF denials he'll get when he becomes eligible. The bloated a-hole is finished. He can't even speak to Texas high school kids anymore. :D
You may gain some weight as you age, but not the kind of weight Clemens gained. Not to mention how he improved as a pitcher late in his career.
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Few people have the time or interest to engage in that sort of crap.
What makes you think Roger is any different? Like most Americans, he doesn't need the hassle.
I have you news for you, Tre...Roger is already in hassle jail. Schilling said on the radio if somebody named him he would sue the guy immediately. If he can't address the specific allegations that macnamee has levelled he is gonna be fucked.
A few other points
Steroids and HGH have ALWAYS been against the MLB policy. Prior to the steroid scandal, any drug taken without a prescription of a dr. is illegal. I'm pretty sure healthy young males don't need winstrol and HGH. Because of some of the psuedo dr's, dentists giving athletes prescriptions the rules were changed to specifically mention drugs that are illegal no matter the circumstances.
Clemens is making the same mistake bonds made...continuing to lie. It will be the end of both of them. Look at Giambi, he admitted to rampant use and all is forgiven. WHERE ARE ALL THE PEOPLE BITCHING ABOUT THE BONDS THING BEING RACE RELATED??? Same issue; same result; different skin color.
The guy saying clemens used is not just some random dude. He was clemens personal guru. They got together after clemens left the redsox around the same time his career rebounded. He followed him to toronto, houston AND new york. Wake up.
Schilling is pissed off because someone he looked up to turned out being a liar. No way schilling is using any physique enhancing drug; he's skinny fat in a bad way
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Skinny Fat....such a great word and perfect for Schilling. If Roger truely was clean, he would have filed suit already. The most important reason he hasn't is because he/his attorneys are afraid having Roger on the stand. Under cross examining Roger could be demolished and he/his attorneys do not want that shit storm........
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Why would Roger need to 'take the stand' for any purpose? He has absolutely nothing to prove.
It's a sad, sad statement when Americans stand ready to convict someone of a non-crime based on HEARSAY from an admitted criminal.
What is the ethical argument against using HGH for any athlete that is beyond the high school level?
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He has absolutely nothing to prove.
Wrong. He has been accused of taken illegal drugs to extend his career. His hall of fame status and cy youngs after '97 are in serious question right now = money and legacy is on the line.
It's a sad, sad statement when Americans stand ready to convict someone of a non-crime based on HEARSAY from an admitted criminal.
Wrong. Non-crime? According to whose definition? Taking steroids and HGH without a script is against the Law and MLB rules.
What is the ethical argument against using HGH for any athlete that is beyond the high school level?
It's pretty simple. Drugs enhance performance. For the same reason you're not allowed to spit on the baseball, you're not allowed to take drugs. Not sure what HGH or high school have to do with anything...
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No way schilling is using any physique enhancing drug; he's skinny fat in a bad way
Here's a recent off-season pic of Schilling:
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Wrong. He has been accused of taken illegal drugs to extend his career. His hall of fame status and cy youngs after '97 are in serious question right now = money and legacy is on the line.
I repeat - his legacy is intact. Hopefully by the time he's eligible for induction, the revered 'voters' will be at least somewhat educated about the subject. Right now, they're part of the feeding frenzy, just because everyone else is and they don't want to be left out.
Wrong. Non-crime? According to whose definition? Taking steroids and HGH without a script is against the Law and MLB rules.
It's pretty simple. Drugs enhance performance. For the same reason you're not allowed to spit on the baseball, you're not allowed to take drugs. Not sure what HGH or high school have to do with anything...
I say 'high school', but you could just as easily replace that with '18 years old'. We define 18 as the age of majority nationwide, so it stands to reason that we would not allow minors to make the choice to take HGH without permission or prescription.
But when it comes to adults, I have a hard time understanding what's ethically wrong with using HGH. It helps to speed up the body's recovery time, correct? And do not Americans demand this of our athletic 'heroes'?
So, for doing what we have for so long demanded, they must be vilified and labeled as criminals?
That sounds distinctly un-American to me.
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he played on celebrity jeopardy against cyndi lauper and urkle or something and he was obliterated into a negative balance the entire game. ::) what a slope head. ::)
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I repeat - his legacy is intact. Hopefully by the time he's eligible for induction, the revered 'voters' will be at least somewhat educated about the subject. Right now, they're part of the feeding frenzy, just because everyone else is and they don't want to be left out.
too funny
pure mindlessness
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too funny
pure mindlessness
indeed...talk about your delusional steroid sympathizers... :D Tre's been around the bodybuilding world too long.
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Two things are for sure:
1) Roger Clemens is juiced to the gills
2) Tre is a one gay douchebag
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When I read Curt Schilling calling out Roger Clemens off The Sports network web site I was thinking was a DUMB ASS SHIT Schilling is for calling out Clemens..I would have to agree with that Clemens has nothing to prove.
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Then Clemens should sue for slander. Why won't he? ::)
This isn't a court of law. MLB doesn't have to prove jack shit, you fat racist. They have the goods on Clemens and others.
Good point.
However, if he sues for slander, the opposition with subpeana everyone and their mother to try to discreditb him. The resultant bad PR will be enough to irretrievably besmirch his name forever.
Mike
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I guess schilling isnt including the facts that he took drugs during the first world series to enhance his performance, he took localized injects of cortizone, painkillers and other agents, all taken to enhance his performance so he could pitch during the world series........he's a fucking joke.
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I guess schilling isnt including the facts that he took drugs during the first world series to enhance his performance, he took localized injects of cortizone, painkillers and other agents, all taken to enhance his performance so he could pitch during the world series........he's a fucking joke.
100% correct.
All the witch hunters are a joke and they need to be called out for exactly what they are.
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100% correct.
All the witch hunters are a joke and they need to be called out for exactly what they are.
Hey Tre,
What's your real beef with Schilling? Did he spit his dip on top of your mother's head during one of those bullpen bj's :-\
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Hey Tre,
What's your real beef with Schilling?
It's really quite simple - I am an American and I abhor un-American behavior.
I'm not sure what your nationality is, but witch hunts like these represent sad chapters in American history and history has *always* proven them to be without merit.
This latest case is no different.
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It's really quite simple - I am an American and I abhor un-American behavior.
I'm not sure what your nationality is, but witch hunts like these represent sad chapters in American history and history has *always* proven them to be without merit.
This latest case is no different.
Tre,
Don't confuse the judicial requirement for guilt with overwhelming evidence of guilt. Kirk Radmomski and Brian McNamee went before the Feds and Senator George Mitchell, 2 institutions that you do not fuck with. They had absolutely no motive for lying, in fact, if they were caught lying, their immunity deals were off and they were going straight to the hooskow. Do you really believe that Clemens maintained that power well into his 40's without the use of AAS? That's just plain naive. Do you notice that only a couple of the 90 or so players are opening their mouths to protest this report. For the most part, they know they got caught and they are wise to sit back and shut the fuck up until it blows over. What I find more offensive than a witch hunt, is when some arrogant piece of shit like Clemens wags his finger in our faces and professes his innocence to us in the face of OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE, taking us all for a bunch of brain dead yokels >:(
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Tre,
Don't confuse the judicial requirement for guilt with overwhelming evidence of guilt. Kirk Radmomski and Brian McNamee went before the Feds and Senator George Mitchell, 2 institutions that you do not fuck with. They had absolutely no motive for lying, in fact, if they were caught lying, their immunity deals were off and they were going straight to the hooskow. Do you really believe that Clemens maintained that power well into his 40's without the use of AAS? That's just plain naive. Do you notice that only a couple of the 90 or so players are opening their mouths to protest this report. For the most part, they know they got caught and they are wise to sit back and shut the fuck up until it blows over. What I find more offensive than a witch hunt, is when some arrogant piece of shit like Clemens wags his finger in our faces and professes his innocence to us in the face of OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE, taking us all for a bunch of brain dead yokels >:(
Ahhhhh....there is some signs of intelligent life after all...
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1) Just because a person may have purchased something does not mean they ever used it. That's just common sense.
2) No one has been 'caught' doing anything. Most people are quiet about the issue, because they don't have to defend themselves against anything or for any purpose.
3) Your assertion that the hearsay 'evidence' providers have no reason to lie does not pass the litmus test. In the case of McNamee, I have not heard him say that he has administered any substance to anyone (correct me if I'm wrong on that). My understanding is that he was responsible for providing advice to his clients about certain products.
4) NO ONE has provided an ethical argument against the use of HGH.
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1) Just because a person may have purchased something does not mean they ever used it. That's just common sense.
2) No one has been 'caught' doing anything. Most people are quiet about the issue, because they don't have to defend themselves against anything or for any purpose.
3) Your assertion that the hearsay 'evidence' providers have no reason to lie does not pass the litmus test. In the case of McNamee, I have not heard him say that he has administered any substance to anyone (correct me if I'm wrong on that). My understanding is that he was responsible for providing advice to his clients about certain products.
4) NO ONE has provided an ethical argument against the use of HGH.
Tre,
Clearly you havent bothered to read any of the excerpts of the Mitchell Report regarding Clemens. McNamee details the DATES, DRUGS, DOSAGES AND INJECTION SITES that he ADMINISTERED to Clemens. Since you don't have any of the facts of the case correct, I can assume that you will go back and do some reading.
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Tre,
Don't confuse the judicial requirement for guilt with overwhelming evidence of guilt. Kirk Radmomski and Brian McNamee went before the Feds and Senator George Mitchell, 2 institutions that you do not fuck with. They had absolutely no motive for lying, in fact, if they were caught lying, their immunity deals were off and they were going straight to the hooskow. Do you really believe that Clemens maintained that power well into his 40's without the use of AAS? That's just plain naive. Do you notice that only a couple of the 90 or so players are opening their mouths to protest this report. For the most part, they know they got caught and they are wise to sit back and shut the fuck up until it blows over. What I find more offensive than a witch hunt, is when some arrogant piece of shit like Clemens wags his finger in our faces and professes his innocence to us in the face of OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE, taking us all for a bunch of brain dead yokels >:(
What he said ;)
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Curt Schilling wants Roger Clemens to prove he *didn't* use.
How f'ing stupid is that?
His comments show just how stupid America is when it comes to this idiotic witch hunt.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=3162301
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Boston Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling called on Roger Clemens to give up the four Cy Young Awards he's won since 1997 if he can't clear his name from allegations that he used steroids to prolong and enhance his career.
"If he doesn't do that then there aren't many options as a fan for me other than to believe his career 192 wins and three Cy Youngs he won prior to 1997 were the end," Schilling wrote Wednesday in his blog, 38pitches.com. "From that point on the numbers were attained through using (performance-enhancing drugs). Just like I stated about Jose (Canseco), if that is the case with Roger, the four Cy Youngs should go to the rightful winners, and the numbers should go away if he cannot refute the accusations."
Baseball isn't like bodybuilding, guys. It's an actual sport and it's competitors should have some integrity. Guys in bodybuilding trade theirs in because they supposedly "have to" to be competitive. Stealing signs is about as far as you need to go regarding cheating in baseball. Amphetamine use is as far as drugs in baseball should go.
I'm not sure why people on a bodybuilding board would take about any legitimate sport, anyway.
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Clearly you havent bothered to read any of the excerpts of the Mitchell Report...
Correct, because it's a witch hunt based upon a false premise.
regarding Clemens. McNamee details the DATES, DRUGS, DOSAGES AND INJECTION SITES that he ADMINISTERED to Clemens.
Did the other guy corroborate the stories?
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Correct, because it's a witch hunt based upon a false premise.
Did the other guy corroborate the stories?
You can decide for yourself.
Even if your a clemens fan it is hard to question why the report would tell the truth about pettitte and make it up about clemens. clemens should be questioning his boy pettitte for confessing to what was in the report not mitchell or mcnamee.
http://assets.espn.go.com/media/pdf/071213/mitchell_report.pdf
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Pettitte says that he used HGH on 2 occasions. Sorry, America, but he doesn't get to say he "used steroids", nor can he be labeled by the public as having "used steroids".
I don't know what motivated Andy to admit to anything, but he chose to get in front of the story and that's often a good way to get a story to 'go away'.
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Pettitte says that he used HGH on 2 occasions. Sorry, America, but he doesn't get to say he "used steroids", nor can he be labeled by the public as having "used steroids".
I don't know what motivated Andy to admit to anything, but he chose to get in front of the story and that's often a good way to get a story to 'go away'.
It's called a having a conscience. ;)
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It's called a having a conscience. ;)
Hey, that's cool. Andy is considered to be one of those guys who has high moral values and who lets his life be an example.
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Pettitte says that he used HGH on 2 occasions. Sorry, America, but he doesn't get to say he "used steroids", nor can he be labeled by the public as having "used steroids".
Who said he used steriods the report is entitled:
REPORT TO THE COMMISSIONER OF BASEBALL
OF AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO
THE ILLEGAL USE OF STEROIDS AND OTHER
PERFORMANCE ENHANCING SUBSTANCES
BY PLAYERS IN MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL
3) Your assertion that the hearsay 'evidence' providers have no reason to lie does not pass the litmus test. In the case of McNamee, I have not heard him say that he has administered any substance to anyone (correct me if I'm wrong on that). My understanding is that he was responsible for providing advice to his clients about certain products.
I would call it first hand information not hearsay when its the person sticking the needle in telling the story.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/13/steroid.report/
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Schilling and his teamate fatpapi probably used/use too.
Most of these guys have used or use something. Clemens just got caught.
And shouldn't Curt Schilling turing out so great in Arizona come into question? ::) Seems reasonable if you're gonna point out Clemens in Toronto.
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Everyone is missing the point. It's not up to Clemens to "prove" anything... his accusers have to prove their case, otherwise he's innocent until proven guilty. That's the way it works in America, but it seems like the 50% of Americans with double-digit IQ's always forget that. For example, I could publicly say, "Mike is a child mollester". Would that mean that you ARE a child mollester unless you could prove that you're not? Of course not...you don't have to prove anything in that case... it is up to the person making the accusation to offer solid proof.
PS: even if Clemens did have the burden of proof, which he doesn't, a polygraph doesn't prove anything... they are notoriously unreliable, and can be beaten or give false positives which is why they are inadmissible in court.
Yes, you could say "Mike is a child molester", and, however untrue that may be, a SEED of truth would be planted in the minds of all.
And "Mike" would forever be saddled with that burden (true or not).
Like it or not, that is how it is here.
Mike
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Yes, you could say "Mike is a child molester", and, however untrue that may be, a SEED of truth would be planted in the minds of all.
And "Mike" would forever be saddled with that burden (true or not).
Like it or not, that is how it is here.
Mike
Thankfully, you've got people with common sense like Goat and myself that are happy to tell the media that they're a bunch of idiots using sensational headlines to grab ratings instead of presenting any well-founded arguments or opinions.
Today, on KNBR, the local guys were saying that McNamee 'would not tell the truth about some stuff and then make up other stuff'...and to them, that was a LOGICAL conclusion. What a couple of fucking tools! I had too much shit to do today, but I fully intend to call them on that when I get the chance.
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Thankfully, you've got people with common sense like Goat and myself that are happy to tell the media that they're a bunch of idiots using sensational headlines to grab ratings instead of presenting any well-founded arguments or opinions.
Today, on KNBR, the local guys were saying that McNamee 'would not tell the truth about some stuff and then make up other stuff'...and to them, that was a LOGICAL conclusion. What a couple of fucking tools! I had too much shit to do today, but I fully intend to call them on that when I get the chance.
Agreed...make sure you call them and give 'em Hell...the media are the WORSE for misinformation and the spreading of it.
Mike
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Correct, because it's a witch hunt based upon a false premise.
Did the other guy corroborate the stories?
How do you know that it is based upon a false premise if you haven't read what is based upon? ???
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How do you know that it is based upon a false premise if you haven't read what is based upon? ???
I maintain that there is nothing ethically wrong with the use - regardless of purpose - of HGH by athletes.
One of my buddies argues that HGH allows an athlete to grow bigger and stronger, thereby giving him an unfair advantage over his competition.
Doesn't protein do the same thing? Should we prohibit athletes from eating red meat?
I've never used HGH, but if I had done so in order to extend my athletic career, I would not have lost a wink of sleep over it.
I understand that not everyone will want to use it or believe that using it is proper (in the context of athletic training and competition), but until someone provides a legitimate ethical argument against its use, my position stands.
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I maintain that there is nothing ethically wrong with the use - regardless of purpose - of HGH by athletes.
One of my buddies argues that HGH allows an athlete to grow bigger and stronger, thereby giving him an unfair advantage over his competition.
Doesn't protein do the same thing? Should we prohibit athletes from eating red meat?
I've never used HGH, but if I had done so in order to extend my athletic career, I would not have lost a wink of sleep over it.
I understand that not everyone will want to use it or believe that using it is proper (in the context of athletic training and competition), but until someone provides a legitimate ethical argument against its use, my position stands.
Why are you honing in on HGH why not steroids? It fits the same arguement your outlining...This thread is a trainwreck and a testament to the complete lack of integrity and intelligence in today's society....
merry xmas!
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I maintain that there is nothing ethically wrong with the use - regardless of purpose - of HGH by athletes.
One of my buddies argues that HGH allows an athlete to grow bigger and stronger, thereby giving him an unfair advantage over his competition.
Doesn't protein do the same thing? Should we prohibit athletes from eating red meat?
I've never used HGH, but if I had done so in order to extend my athletic career, I would not have lost a wink of sleep over it.
I understand that not everyone will want to use it or believe that using it is proper (in the context of athletic training and competition), but until someone provides a legitimate ethical argument against its use, my position stands.
I have engaged in discourse with top Yale and Harvard orthopedic surgeons over the nuances of HGH, and, I must say, most are uncertain in their opinions and the pros and cons of the use of such.
Mike