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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Cap on January 12, 2008, 10:49:30 AM
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Looking at a number of pro BBer routines and videos, it seems as though only a handful work their upper chest first: Cutler, Strydom, Yates, and Cormier. Cormier apparently hit 5 plates on the incline.
My questions are 1.) is there as much of advantage to it, in terms of chest, as these guys boast?
2.) If you were to switch back, would your increased incline pressing power transfer over?
3.) How many of you prefer incline to flat?
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I think its really simply. most guys have lagging upper chest. some of the pros that do upper chest first have the best chest in their day. no one now can beat Jay in a side chest pose. if you really wanted to improve of the upper chest, you have to hit 'em first.If you bench first, you can't hit the chest with as much weights. I know because I've done bench then inclines.
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I've honestly not watched many videos, but I've always done incline first because I don't ever do flat barbell presses due to my shoulder injury a few years ago. I stick with flat DB presses instead. I'm not saying it's better persay to do incline first, it's just what works best for me personally.
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Yeah, I am def zapped after flat bench when the incline comes after. I mean, If you can incline 275 or even 315 I imagine your entire chest would still grow.
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I rarely use a flat bench..if so, at the end of chest w/o and light- only thinking about the contraction...most of my pressing (bb or db) has certain degrees of incline..
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I always start with inclines and most guys in our gym do.
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I alternate every other week, start with incline and move to flat. Next week flip it around.
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Most of the serious lifters in my gym start on incline, Doing it myself for a month now and my numbers areclimbing nicely.
Side note yesterday watched this clown try to bench with a plate on side and a half on the other. Not pretty. My gym is full of these dumbasses
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Most of the serious lifters in my gym start on incline, Doing it myself for a month now and my numbers areclimbing nicely.
Side note yesterday watched this clown try to bench with a plate on side and a half on the other. Not pretty. My gym is full of these dumbasses
I honestly want to try it. Cormier's chest is obviously not lacking and I personally think that if I get up to a 275-315 incline, that is more of an accomplishment.
Michaeloz, do those guys have pretty good chest development, esp the middle/lower sections?
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Looking at a number of pro BBer routines and videos, it seems as though only a handful work their upper chest first: Cutler, Strydom, Yates, and Cormier. Cormier apparently hit 5 plates on the incline.
My questions are 1.) is there as much of advantage to it, in terms of chest, as these guys boast?
2.) If you were to switch back, would your increased incline pressing power transfer over?
3.) How many of you prefer incline to flat?
1. A slight incline places more stress on the pec minor and the pec-delt tie in, but it still activates the pec major very strongly. this helps give the pecs that armour plated look that alot of pro's have today and in the past. flat bench and/or a slight incline will work the pecs effectively but the higher the incline angle the more stress on the delts.
2. your overall strength would easily transfer over to flat bench after a few weeks of getting back into flat work. i know guys who didn't flat bench for a year and then came back much stronger on flat. if the strength of the triceps, delts and pecs increase, a persons overall pressing power "should" increase for every pressing movement. flat bench does required a good amount of form to get good at it but your overall pressing strength should carry over. when my overhead pressing power goes up, my flat bench always seems to do the same. same thing with rack lockouts or board presses, when my lockout strength goes up, my regular benching strength follows.
3. i prefer flat first because i value strength in that particular movement, but i always do some type of low incline press after heavy benching. i prefer incline DB because i can rotate the DB's and get a very deep stretch at the bottom, followed by a slow controlled pressing contraction. every few months i'll start with incline BB and follow that with flat DB for 6-8 weeks, reversing the order and the type of weights used. once i go back to my original flat BB bench routine i'm "usually" stronger in that lift.
overall i think most bodybuilders would want to do incline movements first but one should always alternate the order of exercises at times to keep gains fresh. also remember you don't need much incline angle to hit the pecs effectively, 25-35 degrees is plenty.
Genetics are usually the limiting factor in upper chest development, some have it from day one, some don't. i've seen guys focus on incline movements for years and not make any gains on their upper chest mass, but their overall pec mass did improve. there also needs to be a high quality of contraction for the pec minor to activate to it's greatest potential, but most bodybuilders should already have a sound knowledge of contracting muscles for maximum stimulation.
8)
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inclines first when its dumbel chest week
and flat bench first when its barbell chest week..
incline barbell always bugs my shoulders.. my least fav press movements..
the couple times that ve done incline barbell first i did get 315 for a few hard reps...
i only feel incline barbell in my front delts.. incline dumbells are a superior movement in my opinion
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I always do Incline first. Mainly for upper pec mass, but also, to me, its much more impressive to see someone using 315 or more on the Incline than the flat. Most anyone can work up to 300 or more on the Flat, but in the overwhelming majority of gyms, 300 or more on the Incline is a rarity.
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I've always preferred to do incline work first. I've always had a tough time getting a mind muscle connection going doing flat bench work first.
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Michaeloz, do those guys have pretty good chest development, esp the middle/lower sections?
Serious lifters all have nice development across the chest, they seemed to have hit on a good programm to bring their chests up(don't ask about legs which are fairly skinny) and look nice and full in mid and low. They do tend to train chest twice a week at the expence of not doing legs.
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I've honestly not watched many videos, but I've always done incline first because I don't ever do flat barbell presses due to my shoulder injury a few years ago. I stick with flat DB presses instead. I'm not saying it's better persay to do incline first, it's just what works best for me personally.
i have the same problem ,since i injured my left shoulder (collar bone) cant do flat bench anymore ,so i switched it with the incline first and then i do either flat dumbbel press or machine press,,,
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I stopped benching last year........started them up again recently only to ditch them again.
After a while,your lower pecs will be out of proportion to upper pecs simply because there is less muscle in the upper pecs to begin with.
Inclines will definately help to balance things out a bit.
I usuallu alternate between Smith Inclines,Dumbell Inclines,and then Barbell Inclines on a rotational basis................... .I go as heavy as I need to based on what I did the previous week,my existing energy levels,and just by how I`m feeling on any given day.
The problem with benching is that when a guy starts training,they always think they are gonna` end up benching 315 or 405 or 500 or whatever,but most never get beyond 275-5-8 or 300 for a triple or so.
After all theirt years benching and ruining their shoulders,they still fail to realize that they (most of us),will never hoist huge numbers.
I did a double bodyweight bench as a max,that`s it!!
Some are genetically gifted when it comes to benches,but sadly,most are not.
Work inclines hard and keep benches in the hypertrophy range...8-12 reps and you`ll save your rotator cuffs and you won`t feel bad after years of training and one day realizing you`ll never crank out reps with 365.
Just my thoughts on most trainees when it comes to benching.
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I stopped benching last year........started them up again recently only to ditch them again.
After a while,your lower pecs will be out of proportion to upper pecs simply because there is less muscle in the upper pecs to begin with.
Inclines will definately help to balance things out a bit.
I usuallu alternate between Smith Inclines,Dumbell Inclines,and then Barbell Inclines on a rotational basis................... .I go as heavy as I need to based on what I did the previous week,my existing energy levels,and just by how I`m feeling on any given day.
The problem with benching is that when a guy starts training,they always think they are gonna` end up benching 315 or 405 or 500 or whatever,but most never get beyond 275-5-8 or 300 for a triple or so.
After all theirt years benching and ruining their shoulders,they still fail to realize that they (most of us),will never hoist huge numbers.
I did a double bodyweight bench as a max,that`s it!!
Some are genetically gifted when it comes to benches,but sadly,most are not.
Work inclines hard and keep benches in the hypertrophy range...8-12 reps and you`ll save your rotator cuffs and you won`t feel bad after years of training and one day realizing you`ll never crank out reps with 365.
Just my thoughts on most trainees when it comes to benching.
Great honest post wes. My hat off to you.
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Thanks,just seems to be the norm in most cases.
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i've read where some bodybuilders (chick) completely swear off benching because of its side effects on shoulders and how more strict control movements like dumbbells and smiths make for a better overall workout...i can't remember the last time i did flat bench ---it never did anything for me...
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Wow, I never stick to the same workout.
Ill do incline dumbells one week to start, the next week I can start with pec dec..lol.. Im a big believer in shocking and getting that fresh feel, good pump..I think this method keeps you from getting stronger though- because your not hitting the same movement say incline bench first every week-
WHo knows, but thats what I do..never stick to the same routine you did last week. dont be afraid to change it all the time..
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i've read where some bodybuilders (chick) completely swear off benching because of its side effects on shoulders and how more strict control movements like dumbbells and smiths make for a better overall workout...i can't remember the last time i did flat bench ---it never did anything for me...
If bodybuilders dropped the flat barbell press, their chances of a pec tear would be greatly reduced.
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i dont know what it is but my shoulder gets soo tweaked and painful after incline if i do on anything cept for smith machine...bb or db it kills my left shoulder....so i usually do it on the smith but i do also rotate my workout alot going from BB to db first set becomes last and so on....
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ngm: You should warm your shoulders up before pressing. Use the shoulder warmup that Dante suggests (Wojo does it on his DVD) where you grab a bar or pole and rotate your arms from the front of your thighs in a complete circle behind you and back again. I do about 40 of those before doing any bench presses, really has alleviated a lot of my shoulder problems.
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yea you know emm i do some but i will try those and see how it goes....i usually take a 10 pound weight and rotate my arm from my body to out at a 90 degree angle and then do the same up and down from above my head to my waist..i would like to fix it because my lack of incline power is def limiting my growth you know...but ill try it thanks for the advice...
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I always start off with incline , works the whole chest , but mostly upper. Stimulates more growth I feel , and it wears me out
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My pecs feel much different since the switch. My incline in getting stronger, obviously, and since my pecs and delts are pre-exhausted I don't have to go as heavy on flat bench to get a good workout. This has alleviated the strain on my outer pec, especially where most guys tear their pecs. I love the upper chest work and get the feeling it will fill out faster. Good so far so I will stick with it.
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inclines first is the way to go. who cares if your flat "bench" goes down a few pounds. bigger upper chest looks much better than a thicker lower chest (man boobs).