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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on January 15, 2008, 06:49:49 AM
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In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?
The "Rapture?"
A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?
The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?
The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"
Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?
Anything?
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In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?
The "Rapture?"
A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?
The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?
The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"
Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?
Anything?
Stella, there will indeed be many people who bear witness to the things you mentioned and have a new outlook.
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By the time all that happens won't it not be too late?
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In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?
The "Rapture?"
A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?
The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?
The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"
Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?
Anything?
some people won't believe regardless of any prophecies that are fulfilled.
sadly enough, it'll take standing before God on judgement day for some people.
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some people won't believe regardless of any prophecies that are fulfilled.
sadly enough, it'll take standing before God on judgement day for some people.
Luke 16:31
"He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "
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A defiant heart will only continue to harden.
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Evidence!
Easy question :) I believe in a given proposition only in as much as there is evidence for it!
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In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?
The "Rapture?"
A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?
The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?
The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"
Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?
Anything?
It isn't the prophecies in the bible that make me not believe it's the 100% WOG.
It's what's attributed as God in the Bible that makes me believe it isn't the 100% WOG
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It isn't the prophecies in the bible that make me not believe it's the 100% WOG.
It's what's attributed as God in the Bible that makes me believe it isn't the 100% WOG
I do not believe in the God of the old/new testament.
If Gideon comes down a blowing his horn, then that's some fairly irrefutable proof. Same thing with Jesus condescending to earth in plain view.
Otherwise, those stories in the Bible are just that.
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To believe what? Christianity?
If all the verses of the bible suddenly became viable through the scientific method, I would consider it.
As long as everything else that exists in reality leads to a different conclusion, I'll be weighted in that direction.
Some random occurance that a handful of idiots try to claim was prophecy isn't going to cut it.
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when you guys truly seek for and understand God's love for you that will be all the "evidence" you'll need.
;D
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when you guys truly seek for and understand God's love for you that will be all the "evidence" you'll need.
;D
If you look for a reason long enough, you will find one.
I fully understand that my belief in God is based purely on faith and not on concrete evidence. The bible is not concrete evidence. However, if it is good enough for you, more power to you.
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I fully understand that my belief in God is based purely on faith and not on concrete evidence. The bible is not concrete evidence.
If God truely loved us as His children and wanted to afford all of us a chance to be saved why didnt He leave us something more substantial? rather than something that can be disputed? (there are so many discrepancies in the Bible, i dont want to bring that up but its true). different people have different doubts, no one is the same we were all created differently right. so naturally the people who were created to be more skeptical will have a more difficult time leaving it up to faith..is that fair? and is it fair that people in other countries are so much less exposed to the option of salvation? someone growing up in a country in Africa or a South American tribal village will never get exposed to Christianity.
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In regard to the Christian bible, is there any occurance that would convince you (unbelievers) that it is accurate and true?
The "Rapture?"
A Russian Army attempt to invade Israel but it fails and is destroyed?
The Implementation of a one-world currency or religion?
The Implementation of the "Mark of the Beast?"
Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?
Anything?
How is this supposed to make anyone a believer? ???
I have read the Bible several times, but never seen a prophecy about a Russian Army, much less about it invading "Israel".
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Seeing Jesus returning in the sky?
Anything?
that holds true for the muslim faith also..they also believe in the returning or jesus..kinda funny to me to see christians hold exclusive rights to jesus...lol...
anyhow..
lemme shoot u in the face..with a nuke....and ya live without needing medical attention.....that'd do it
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I have read the Bible several times, but never seen a prophecy about a Russian Army, much less about it invading "Israel".
Some believe it is referenced in Ezekial 38 and 39.
that holds true for the muslim faith also..they also believe in the returning or jesus..kinda funny to me to see christians hold exclusive rights to jesus...lol...
I didn't know that. How do they say He will return Toxy?
lemme shoot u in the face..with a nuke....and ya live without needing medical attention.....that'd do it
That's interesting. Some believe that the following refers to the antichrist receiving a fatal wound and recovering from it (probably not a nuke though ;D)
Revelation 13:2-4
"...... The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
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that holds true for the muslim faith also..they also believe in the returning or jesus..
ProteinFarts is correct. Here is an example:
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31JAHTZ4QRL._AA169_.jpg)
The Signs of Jesus' Second Coming (Paperback)
by Harun Yahya (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Signs-Jesus-Second-Coming/dp/9756426497/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200595250&sr=1-6
Book Description:
The Qur'an and the related sayings of Prophets tell us that Jesus (pbuh) will come back to Earth again in the End Times, the times preceding the Day of Judgment. In addition, the signs of this event as revealed in the New Testament have parallels with those stated in the hadiths. Jesus return to Earth, a belief held by both Christians and Muslims, will end this world's all-pervasive cruelty and injustice and transform it into a place of peace, abundance, and justice. This book examines the signs of Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) second coming from the Islamic sources and how the signs that they provide have come true one by one. People witnessing these signs may, by God's Will, hope that his return is close. The world is also getting sociologically prepared for such a great event. The chain of events through which humanity has passed during the last two centuries has, both covertly and overtly, raised the expectation of a savior in the minds of people all over the world. People have increasingly seen that materialistic ideologies and lifestyles cannot save humanity; rather, they lead humanity closer to disaster and emptiness. This situation has caused many people to turn to the morality of religion. It is no coincidence that this sociological infrastructure has been established at a time when the signs of Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) second coming appear one after another. By God's Will, Prophet Jesus' (pbuh) return will cause religion's morality to pervade all over the world and all sincere believers to attain security. Along with all other believers, we hope that our Lord will honor us by letting us meet this blessed visitor and enable us to make the best preparations to meet him.
About the Author:
Adnan Oktar, nom de plume Harun Yahya (a.k.a Adnan Hoca) (born Ankara, 1956), is a prominent figure in Turkish creationism and a fervent advocate of creationism in the creation-evolution controversy. He is considered by some to be the leading Muslim advocate of creationism. He subscribes to Old Earth creationism. He is against Zionism and Freemasonry and sees them as very interrelated movements, though he denounces anti-Semitism and terrorism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adnan_Oktar
kinda funny to me to see christians hold exclusive rights to jesus...lol...
Where do you get that Christians hold exclusive rights to Jesus? Nobody holds exclusive rights to Jesus.
What Christians believe about Jesus was written in Bible and in extra biblical historical records hundreds of years before Islam came into existence.
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Some believe it is referenced in Ezekial 38 and 39.
Please, show me how it is referenced in Ezekiel 38 and 39. :)
I would be very happy to find that section where a Russian army is mentioned.
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Israel Warns World War III May be Biblical War of Gog and Magog
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123961
..."Channel 2 and Channel 10 TV showed the world map, sketching the basic alignment of the two opposing axes in a coming world war, in a manner evoking associations of the Gog and Magog prophecy for many viewers. The prophecy of Gog and Magog refers to a great world war centered on the Holy Land and Jerusalem and first appears in the book of Yechezkel (Ezekiel)."...
..."On one side were Israel, the United States, Britain, France and Germany.
On the other were Iran, Russia, China, Syria and North Korea."
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Israel Warns World War III May be Biblical War of Gog and Magog
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/123961
..."Channel 2 and Channel 10 TV showed the world map, sketching the basic alignment of the two opposing axes in a coming world war, in a manner evoking associations of the Gog and Magog prophecy for many viewers. The prophecy of Gog and Magog refers to a great world war centered on the Holy Land and Jerusalem and first appears in the book of Yechezkel (Ezekiel)."...
..."On one side were Israel, the United States, Britain, France and Germany.
On the other were Iran, Russia, China, Syria and North Korea."
very interesting find loco!
Please, show me how it is referenced in Ezekiel 38 and 39. :)
I would be very happy to find that section where a Russian army is mentioned.
Here is a commentary on Eze 38:1-9 from www.i-amfaithweb.net
Ezekiel 38: 1-9
The Prophecy
1 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
2 Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal:
4 and I will turn you about, and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handling swords;
5 Persia, Cush, and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
6 Gomer, and all his hordes; the house of Togarmah in the uttermost parts of the north, and all his hordes; even many peoples with you.
7 Be prepared, yes, prepare yourself, you, and all your companies who are assembled to you, and be a guard to them.
8 After many days you shall be visited: in the latter years you shall come into the land that is brought back from the sword, that is gathered out of many peoples, on the mountains of Israel, which have been a continual waste; but it is brought forth out of the peoples, and they shall dwell securely, all of them.
9 You shall ascend, you shall come like a storm, you shall be like a cloud to cover the land, you, and all your hordes, and many peoples with you.
The first thing to notice is that exact geographical locations are given (vs. 2, 5-6).
Many commentators are in agreement as to the countries involved; they are: Russia ( Magog being the name given to the general area of modern day Russia), Rosh is specifically Russia, Meshech is Moscow whilst Tubal is Tobolsk. Persia is Iran, Cush is Ethiopia, Put is Somalia (some would say, as do some translations, Lybia), Gomer is in modern day Germany and Togarmah is Armenia.
No Arab countries are mentioned as belonging to the coalition (Iran, although Islamic is not Arab).
The coalition of armies is headed by Gog the leader or prince of Russia and comprising of Russia, Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia (could be Lybia), Germany and Armenia; there could also be other countries involved although the 'even many peoples with you' of verse 6 could be a reference to the vast array of different cultures involved.
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Yes, Stella, that's the most reasonable explanation:
The Jews writing their scriptures some 25 centuries ago were only forecasting what would happen in our times. They were talking about the contemporary international geopolitical state of affairs. They weren't talking about anyone else's time but ours.
I love how some people are so self-centered that they always read "Biblical prophecy" as referring to their own lifetimes. Apocalyptic cults and thinkers over the centuries always seemed to think that the prophets of ancient Israel had no better thing to do than tell them what was going to happen in their lifetimes.
Yes, that is the most reasonable explanation of them all...
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Yes, Stella, that's the most reasonable explanation:
The Jews writing their scriptures some 25 centuries ago were only forecasting what would happen in our times. They were talking about the contemporary international geopolitical state of affairs. They weren't talking about anyone else's time but ours.
I love how some people are so self-centered that they always read "Biblical prophecy" as referring to their own lifetimes. Apocalyptic cults and thinkers over the centuries always seemed to think that the prophets of ancient Israel had no better thing to do than tell them what was going to happen in their lifetimes.
Yes, that is the most reasonable explanation of them all...
Not sure where I said this would absolutely happen in "our times." Could it? Sure...but it could be hundreds or thousands of years from now.
I love how some people are so closed-minded that they always .....oh, never mind ;D
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Oh yes, that makes even more sense. ::)
Ancient Jews were really concerned about what would happen hundreds or thousands of years after our time that they put it in their scriptures... No, they weren't talking about their own time, their own world... Their world was so free of all concerns that they had the luxury of forecasting the distant future...
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Oh yes, that makes even more sense. ::)
Ancient Jews were really concerned about what would happen hundreds or thousands of years after our time that they put it in their scriptures... No, they weren't talking about their own time, their own world... Their world was so free of all concerns that they had the luxury of forecasting the distant future...
Interesting. Have you ever read the bible columbusdude?
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Interesting. Have you ever read the bible columbusdude?
Yes, every once in a while, in between Black Mass services, selling my soul to the Devil, worshipping at the altar of Secular Humanism, and planning my eternity in Beelzebub's Sauna Spa ;)
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Yes, every once in a while, in between Black Mass services, selling my soul to the Devil, worshipping at the altar of Secular Humanism, and planning my eternity in Beelzebub's Sauna Spa ;)
ha ha ???
So am I to decipher that your answer is no? If that is correct, it explains a lot of your confusion.
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My answer, dear lady, is yes.
I read the Bible a lot when I was a believer. I read it (and read about it) now as an unbeliever, as a sort of academic exercise to indulge the historian in me.
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My answer, dear lady, is yes.
OK thanks :)
OK back to this:
Ancient Jews were really concerned about what would happen hundreds or thousands of years after our time that they put it in their scriptures...
I think you meant the above sarcastically but it is a true statement.
No, they weren't talking about their own time, their own world... Their world was so free of all concerns that they had the luxury of forecasting the distant future...
And they of course talked aout their own time but also wrote about the distant future.
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God would have to walk through the door, go into the the kitchen, and make me a ham & turkey sandwich.
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If there would be proof that would end the belief.
Also it would be nice to see how humanity would react to definite proof of christian god.
a Supreme being controlling our lives...
"I am not a number. I am a free man!"
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Give me some more evidence than the mad rantings of desert goatherders and I will consider it.
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Show me an example of an amputee that your god healed by re-growing their missing limb(s).
Also, present evidence that it was him and not Allah or any of the others.
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lollll i was just thinking about that:
America (not everybody) believe in a god created by desert peoples long time ago, people that kill, murder, make war....... and we try to distant ourself of them, does that make sens?
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very interesting find loco!
Here is a commentary on Eze 38:1-9 from www.i-amfaithweb.net
Ezekiel 38: 1-9
The Prophecy
1 The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
2 Son of man, set your face toward Gog, of the land of Magog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3 and say, Thus says the Lord GOD: Behold, I am against you, Gog, prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal:
4 and I will turn you about, and put hooks into your jaws, and I will bring you forth, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed in full armor, a great company with buckler and shield, all of them handling swords;
5 Persia, Cush, and Put with them, all of them with shield and helmet;
6 Gomer, and all his hordes; the house of Togarmah in the uttermost parts of the north, and all his hordes; even many peoples with you.
7 Be prepared, yes, prepare yourself, you, and all your companies who are assembled to you, and be a guard to them.
8 After many days you shall be visited: in the latter years you shall come into the land that is brought back from the sword, that is gathered out of many peoples, on the mountains of Israel, which have been a continual waste; but it is brought forth out of the peoples, and they shall dwell securely, all of them.
9 You shall ascend, you shall come like a storm, you shall be like a cloud to cover the land, you, and all your hordes, and many peoples with you.
The first thing to notice is that exact geographical locations are given (vs. 2, 5-6).
Many commentators are in agreement as to the countries involved; they are: Russia ( Magog being the name given to the general area of modern day Russia), Rosh is specifically Russia, Meshech is Moscow whilst Tubal is Tobolsk. Persia is Iran, Cush is Ethiopia, Put is Somalia (some would say, as do some translations, Lybia), Gomer is in modern day Germany and Togarmah is Armenia.
No Arab countries are mentioned as belonging to the coalition (Iran, although Islamic is not Arab).
The coalition of armies is headed by Gog the leader or prince of Russia and comprising of Russia, Iran, Ethiopia, Somalia (could be Lybia), Germany and Armenia; there could also be other countries involved although the 'even many peoples with you' of verse 6 could be a reference to the vast array of different cultures involved.
Nice links.
I still don't see Russia being mentioned. Nor have I found anything when I re-read Ezekiel.
There is no nation today called "Magog", eg.
Let me ask you this STella:
What's your opinion about what is written in Ezekiel?
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Nice links.
I still don't see Russia being mentioned. Nor have I found anything when I re-read Ezekiel.
There is no nation today called "Magog", eg.
Let me ask you this STella:
What's your opinion about what is written in Ezekiel?
Are you asking me if I believe that Russia could be a country referred to in Ezekiel 38? Yes, I do.
What are your feelings on bible prophecy Zach?
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Are you asking me if I believe that Russia could be a country referred to in Ezekiel 38? Yes, I do.
What are your feelings on bible prophecy Zach?
Stella, I am curious. Do you even bother to read contemporary, academic biblical scholarship? Does it even interest you? Do you even want to read such things?
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Are you asking me if I believe that Russia could be a country referred to in Ezekiel 38? Yes, I do.
No, I am asking you if you believe an Russian Army will attempt to invade Israel and fail.
What are your feelings on bible prophecy Zach?
The Bible is written by man.
Prophecies in the Bible are valid or flawed as any predictions or future analysis made.
But I don't "believe" in them, no.
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No, I am asking you if you believe an Russian Army will attempt to invade Israel and fail.
Yes I believe this could happen.
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Stella, I am curious. Do you even bother to read contemporary, academic biblical scholarship? Does it even interest you? Do you even want to read such things?
Can you give me some examples of what you would consider contemporary, academic biblical scholarship?
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Yes I believe this could happen.
Could happen, or that it is likely to happen?
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Can you give me some examples of what you would consider contemporary, academic biblical scholarship?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus
http://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Shrinking-Son-Man-Tradition/dp/1591021219/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201014137&sr=1-1
The authors submit conclude the Hebrew bible was conceived, written, and read as a theological and community text. To dissect the bible in search of accurate, verifiable history is to demand of it something that it is not. The bible is narrative expression of shared community life. It emerged in the late 7th century BCE as the response of a small kingdom to the unique pressures it faced, and was later refined as the response of the even smaller Temple community in Jerusalem to the challenges of the post-Exilic period. It demands to be read, not as history in the modern sense, but as the literary and spiritual creation of its own age.
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Some believe it is referenced in Ezekial 38 and 39.
I didn't know that. How do they say He will return Toxy?
That's interesting. Some believe that the following refers to the antichrist receiving a fatal wound and recovering from it (probably not a nuke though ;D)
Revelation 13:2-4
"...... The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
stells...
i dont believe in the devil either! ;)
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Could happen, or that it is likely to happen?
I do believe that a force/army will attack from the north of Israel and will fail and be destroyed in accordance w/Ezekiel 38 and 39. If Russia is a country talked about I believe it will happen concerning Russia. If it's some other country or coalition (from wherever) that attacks from the north of Israel that is being talked about, I believe it will happen concerning them. Yes, I believe that Ezekiel 38 and 39 will happen.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bible_Unearthed
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misquoting_Jesus
http://www.amazon.com/Incredible-Shrinking-Son-Man-Tradition/dp/1591021219/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1201014137&sr=1-1
Stella, I am curious. Do you even bother to read contemporary, academic biblical scholarship? Does it even interest you? Do you even want to read such things?
Thanks for providing those links Trapezkerl. After briefly perusing the links, my answer to your above questions would have to be that I really wouldn't be interested in reading any of those.
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Stella, have you considered the possibility that your mind has been hijacked by a mind virus? (like a computer virus, only in your mind)
Perhaps it is that mind virus that dictates to your mind: "Do not read any source of knowledge that might challenge my control over you."
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Stella, have you considered the possibility that your mind has been hijacked by a mind virus? (like a computer virus, only in your mind)
Perhaps it is that mind virus that dictates to your mind: "Do not read any source of knowledge that might challenge my control over you."
lol Do you say this because I said I wouldn't be interested in reading any of the books in the links Trapez posted? They just don't interest me. I'm also not interested in reading stuff like "Bridges Over Madison County."
Coldude, are you interested in reading books like "Surprised by Joy" "The Grand Miracle" and "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis?
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lol Do you say this because I said I wouldn't be interested in reading any of the books in the links Trapez posted? They just don't interest me. I'm also not interested in reading stuff like "Bridges Over Madison County."
Coldude, are you interested in reading books like "Surprised by Joy" "The Grand Miracle" and "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis?
I have read 'Mere Christianity.' Terrible apologetics though apologetics always are.
It is very covenient that you refused to read respected biblical scholars whose conclusions challenge your own beliefs. They don't interest you because they demonstrate that the bible is just a contrived book, full of mistakes, fabrications and exaggerations, like any other.
Ignorance is bliss, ain't it Stella?
I still think you're a nice person and have concluded that your psychology requires these strange things you believe; very common, many people believe for the comfort it provides.
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When pigs fly ;D
Just kidding
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I have read 'Mere Christianity.' Terrible apologetics though apologetics always are.
It is very covenient that you refused to read respected biblical scholars whose conclusions challenge your own beliefs. They don't interest you because they demonstrate that the bible is just a contrived book, full of mistakes, fabrications and exaggerations, like any other.
Ignorance is bliss, ain't it Stella?
I still think you're a nice person and have concluded that your psychology requires these strange things you believe; very common, many people believe for the comfort it provides.
Thanks Trapezkerl ;D
Out of respect to you, if you give me several books to choose from I will give one a try. Please keep in mind while making possible selections for me that I'd like the book to present your side w/o displaying a blatant attempt to primarily disrespect the bible....this way it will likely be more palatable and will make me less apt to think defensively.
Also your selections should be somewhat simple for me to grasp and understand as since I'm not really that interested to read them; they should grab and keep my attention.
So what other suggestions do you have? And could you give me a brief summary of them (or in a link) and also the background and the credentials of the author?
I will to try to read one.
Another thought is we could go over the book together and discuss it here. Maybe everyone could read it and join the discussion? We could call it Trapezkerl's Book Club ;D But I would want to pick the next book please! :P
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The Cost of Discipleship: Dietrich Bonhoeffer
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Thanks Trapezkerl ;D
Out of respect to you, if you give me several books to choose from I will give one a try. Please keep in mind while making possible selections for me that I'd like the book to present your side w/o displaying a blatant attempt to primarily disrespect the bible....this way it will likely be more palatable and will make me less apt to think defensively.
Also your selections should be somewhat simple for me to grasp and understand as since I'm not really that interested to read them; they should grab and keep my attention.
So what other suggestions do you have? And could you give me a brief summary of them (or in a link) and also the background and the credentials of the author?
I will to try to read one.
Another thought is we could go over the book together and discuss it here. Maybe everyone could read it and join the discussion? We could call it Trapezkerl's Book Club ;D But I would want to pick the next book please! :P
None of the books I presented are 'disrespectful' to the Bible. They are scholarly works. I will pm you one, perhaps with some internet excerpts so you can read online.
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Thanks for providing those links Trapezkerl. After briefly perusing the links, my answer to your above questions would have to be that I really wouldn't be interested in reading any of those.
Why not?
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lol Do you say this because I said I wouldn't be interested in reading any of the books in the links Trapez posted? They just don't interest me. I'm also not interested in reading stuff like "Bridges Over Madison County."
Coldude, are you interested in reading books like "Surprised by Joy" "The Grand Miracle" and "Mere Christianity" by CS Lewis?
I started reading "Mere Christianity" and started making a record of all the logical fallacies, non sequiturs, and deceptive rhetorical tools he uses. It started to look like my list was going to be longer than the book itself!
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I have read 'Mere Christianity.' Terrible apologetics though apologetics always are.
I started reading "Mere Christianity" and started making a record of all the logical fallacies, non sequiturs, and deceptive rhetorical tools he uses. It started to look like my list was going to be longer than the book itself!
Your opinions, nothing more. Dr. Francis S. Collins would disagree. He became a believer after observing the faith of his critically ill patients and reading "Mere Christianity" by C. S. Lewis.
For others on this board who don't know, Francis S. Collins, M.D., Ph.D., is a physician-geneticist, noted for his landmark discoveries of disease genes, and his leadership of the Human Genome Project (HGP). He is the director of the National Human Genome Research Institute (NHGRI).
Not that I care what Richard Dawkins thinks, but for those who do care, Richard Dawkins considers Francis S. Collins a good scientist, even though he is a Christian.
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Of course he's a great scientist... and that's because he keeps his religion out of his science :)
Just like he keeps his politics and sports team preferences out of his science!
As for "Mere Christianity," a more drab, colorless, and feeble "argument" of logical fallacies all strung together, I have never encountered!
Sorry loco but it's true!
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Of course he's a great scientist... and that's because he keeps his religion out of his science :)
Just like he keeps his politics and sports team preferences out of his science!
As for "Mere Christianity," a more drab, colorless, and feeble "argument" of logical fallacies all strung together, I have never encountered!
Sorry loco but it's true!
Don't apologize to me. It's your opinion.
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CS Lewis isn't even a good writer of apologetics.
You want someone who can write with style, maybe you'd want to start with Adrian Rodgers. If his writing was anything like his preaching, then you'd be in for a treat :)
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CS Lewis isn't even a good writer of apologetics.
You want someone who can write with style, maybe you'd want to start with Adrian Rodgers. If his writing was anything like his preaching, then you'd be in for a treat :)
I've read "What Every Christian Ought to Know" by Adrian Rodgers. He is a good writer. :)
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Why not?
They just didn't seem interesting to me (no offense to T-kerl).
I started reading "Mere Christianity" and started making a record of all the logical fallacies, non sequiturs, and deceptive rhetorical tools he uses. It started to look like my list was going to be longer than the book itself!
I was reading a thread here the other day and MCWAY was being accused of posting non sequiturs a lot and I did not agree. I was telling my workout partner about how differently people seem to think here (obviously in what they believe but I was talking about mainly in our thought processes) and that sometimes certain comments made by either side make complete sense to the poster but some on the other side cannot seem to grasp what they are saying.
Coldude, could you post a couple items that you were recording when trying to read "Mere Christianity" please?
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I've read "What Every Christian Ought to Know" by Adrian Rodgers. He is a good writer. :)
Maybe that book will be T-kerl approved!
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Stella, I'll see if I have those notes lying around somewhere in a box... This was a long time ago.
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Maybe that book will be T-kerl approved!
Unlikely. Apologetics are utterly unconvincing. Apologia means defence and that is what it is, not a laying out of facts and evidence. I posted this when I first came here so I will do so again. It is basically my life creed.
My view is that atheistic existentialism is the high road where ultimately morality is an aesthetic about the world we choose to live in given existential abandonment and radical free will. There is no inherited and meaningful context and self-deception about such is the low road.The most profound thing is to be good simply because one chooses to do so - not for any received truth or dictate. Fuck primitive religion. This is the new religion. We are insignificant in a universe of collapsing stars and time parameters that we can't even comprehend, but to look that squarely in the face and transcend ourselves by the way we apply our freedom is to become an adult species - and if it all passes and nobody ever knew we did it then more is the profundity.
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They just didn't seem interesting to me (no offense to T-kerl).
Why not give one of them a chance?
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Why not give one of them a chance?
I am...T-kerl graciously PMed me an excerpt from a radio show that I will listen to this afternoon :)