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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Decker on January 29, 2008, 01:41:10 PM
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It was swell speech that had me cheering. A big thumbs up to the president as he battles terrorists all over the world....but mostly in Iraq.
And thank God that he is reigning in that spendthrift Congress. I mean it's not like he's been asking for 100s of billions of dollars to fund the defense of America in Iraq....while cutting over a trillion dollars worth of taxes.
That's the way to balance the national books!
And his little funny about people that actually give a damn about the fiscal state of our country was dead on:
"Some in Washington argue that letting tax relief expire is not a tax increase. Try explaining that to 116 million American taxpayers who would see their taxes rise by an average of $1,800. Others have said they would personally be happy to pay higher taxes. I welcome their enthusiasm. I'm pleased to report that the IRS accepts both checks and money orders." (Laughter and applause.)
Well, here's what I really thought:
Congress looked like a snakepit. All plastic congressmen acting like everything's a-ok. Cheering on the war criminal in chief and his litany of lies.
You can fool some of the people all of the time. All of the the people some of the time. But not all of the people all of the time. Bush doesn't fool me. I see him for what he is. That goes for Congress too. Nepotistic, incestuous, corrupt 'leaders' at their worst.
If only there were a flood of biblical proportions in that hall last night to cleanse the putrid filth that is the Bush Administration and the complicit Congress.
Oh well. I guess this is where the weakness of a democracy lies: the weak willed and weak minded go with the flow. We, The Disappointing People, elect trash.
And then we are miffed when that trash shows its game.
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Regardless of his true feelings and intentions, I think it was definitely one of the best speeches he's ever given. He looked and sounded very Presidential, and there was something in his speech for everyone.
No matter what happens from here until the end, the speechwriters did a good job this time around.
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I liked the 18 billion in cuts.....getting rid of bullshit is what he should have been doing from the outset.
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I liked the lies about stopping nonexistent terrorist attacks:
"In the past six years, we've stopped numerous attacks, including a plot to fly a plane into the tallest building in Los Angeles and another to blow up passenger jets bound for America over the Atlantic."
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How do u know....I didn't realize u worked for the NSA/CIA/DIA/FBI/ATF/Customs..common.
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It was swell speech that had me cheering. A big thumbs up to the president as he battles terrorists all over the world....but mostly in Iraq.
And thank God that he is reigning in that spendthrift Congress. I mean it's not like he's been asking for 100s of billions of dollars to fund the defense of America in Iraq....while cutting over a trillion dollars worth of taxes.
That's the way to balance the national books!
And his little funny about people that actually give a damn about the fiscal state of our country was dead on:
"Some in Washington argue that letting tax relief expire is not a tax increase. Try explaining that to 116 million American taxpayers who would see their taxes rise by an average of $1,800. Others have said they would personally be happy to pay higher taxes. I welcome their enthusiasm. I'm pleased to report that the IRS accepts both checks and money orders." (Laughter and applause.)
Well, here's what I really thought:
Congress looked like a snakepit. All plastic congressmen acting like everything's a-ok. Cheering on the war criminal in chief and his litany of lies.
You can fool some of the people all of the time. All of the the people some of the time. But not all of the people all of the time. Bush doesn't fool me. I see him for what he is. That goes for Congress too. Nepotistic, incestuous, corrupt 'leaders' at their worst.
If only there were a flood of biblical proportions in that hall last night to cleanse the putrid filth that is the Bush Administration and the complicit Congress.
Oh well. I guess this is where the weakness of a democracy lies: the weak willed and weak minded go with the flow. We, The Disappointing People, elect trash.
And then we are miffed when that trash shows its game.
I can just imagine you pissing yourself out of anger over Bush doing so well.. ah hahahahahahhahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!
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With 935 lies to his credit, i see him as a waste of planetary land mass.
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I liked the lies about stopping nonexistent terrorist attacks:
"In the past six years, we've stopped numerous attacks, including a plot to fly a plane into the tallest building in Los Angeles and another to blow up passenger jets bound for America over the Atlantic."
You liberals never fail.. everytime he says something you don't like it just HAS to be a lie. Whatabuncha cry-babies.
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You liberals never fail.. everytime he says something you don't like it just HAS to be a lie. Whatabuncha cry-babies.
Translation: I enjoy Bush's ,"twig & Berries"... :-*
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I can just imagine you pissing yourself out of anger over Bush doing so well.. ah hahahahahahhahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!
You're a patriot.
Bush is doing so well and you support the president.
You're a hero.
Why anyone looking at the president's accomplishments--650,000 dead in Iraq, felony spying on americans, torture, treasonous exposure of US spies, and on and on.
You're the essence of a hallowed american.
You are a winner!
Just like the President.
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You're a patriot.
Bush is doing so well and you support the president.
You're a hero.
Why anyone looking at the president's accomplishments--650,000 dead in Iraq, felony spying on americans, torture, treasonous exposure of US spies, and on and on.
You're the essence of a hallowed american.
You are a winner!
Just like the President.
hahahaah... what a bunch of horse crap.
Never seen so much hatred cloud someone's judgment and pollute everything that pours out of their mouth. Good job!! ;D
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Bush is not a good president. This can be stated rather objectively.
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hahahaah... what a bunch of horse crap.
Never seen so much hatred cloud someone's judgment and pollute everything that pours out of their mouth. Good job!! ;D
waaahhhh! No one criticizes Big Daddy president Bush.
You critics are all haters and nothing more.
There is no objective reality either...just spin.
Hate, hate, hate.
Apparently your perverse idea of presidential criticism is:
Bush is doing a good job or
Bush is doing a great job.
Mind you, I'm paraphrasing.
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Bush is not a good president. This can be stated rather objectively.
Wrong... he is not a popular president. As far as good is concerned I would give him a "B."
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waaahhhh! No one criticizes Big Daddy president Bush.
You critics are all haters and nothing more.
At least you live up to the reputation of an over-emotional, illogical, and vindictive leftist.
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"pixybulldog"
Mr Rork called, he says you're needed back on "Fantasy Island"
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At least you live up to the reputation of an over-emotional, illogical, and vindictive leftist.
You're the one that sounds emotional.
And stupid by lack of facts. :-\
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I liked the lies about stopping nonexistent terrorist attacks:
"In the past six years, we've stopped numerous attacks, including a plot to fly a plane into the tallest building in Los Angeles and another to blow up passenger jets bound for America over the Atlantic."
Your sadly mistaken if you think that!
Haha, gebus you have no idea ofhow radical the religion of Islam is.
Anyways Decker's post was good analysis.
The exchange of eduction benefits to the soldier's women and children?
Should have been enacted long ago, if they have "credit" then they should use it as they se fit.
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Bush is not a good president. This can be stated rather objectively.
Bush is to blame for Hillary's rise to power this year.
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You're the one that sounds emotional.
And stupid by lack of facts. :-\
Translation: I enjoy Bush's ,"twig & Berries"... :-*
Irony :)
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At least you live up to the reputation of an over-emotional, illogical, and vindictive leftist.
I would love to have an intelligent debate with you but you're just too stupid.
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How do u know....I didn't realize u worked for the NSA/CIA/DIA/FBI/ATF/Customs..common.
HH - this is OLD NEWS:
The Alleged Liberty Tower Plot
On Feb. 10, 2006, the LA Times quoted a "US official familiar with the operational aspects of the war on terrorism," who said that "the Library Tower plot was one of many Al Qaeda operations that had not gone much past the conceptual stage….The official spoke on the condition of anonymity, saying that those familiar with the plot feared political retaliation for providing a different characterization of the plan that that of the president."
Michael Scheuer, an al Qaeda expert in the CIA's counter-terrorism center, told the Voice of America: "This doesn't sound like anything that I would recall as a major threat, or as a major success in stopping it….My impression [was that the National Security Council] culled through information to look for something that resembled a serious threat in 2002. It doesn't strike me, either as someone who was there or as someone who has followed al Qaeda pretty closely, that this was really a serious sort of effort."
A February 10, 2006 Washington Post story cited "several U.S. intelligence officials" who "said there is deep disagreement within the intelligence community over the seriousness of the Library Tower scheme and whether it was ever much more than talk."
A February 10, 2006, New York Daily News story cited one senior counterterrorism official who said: "There was no definitive plot. It never materialized or got past the thought stage."
The so called Liquid Bomb Plot in the UK
Craig Murray, former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, summed this case up well:
"None of the alleged terrorists had made a bomb. None had bought a plane ticket. Many did not even have passports, which given the efficiency of the UK Passport Agency would mean they couldn't be a plane bomber for quite some time. Let's not forgot - the premise of simply mixing two liquids to make a bomb is completely unfeasible to do in a airplane bathroom or really anywhere outside of a very controlled environment.
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U can just about forget any of this crap...the folks who deal with this stuff, they guys who do real anti terror stuff are not going to release info like this. Its all smoke and mirrors while they get a handle on whats going on. A few facts to shut everybody up..or get them talking. SOF units and the guys tasked with combatting these guys play by different rules. Its not CT stuff...i've seen it. U can look at books that deal with the run up to the Iraq invasion, from a SOF standpoint, its all in there...compare that to what was reported on the news. Besides these guys have to track down every lead and try and figure out whats a threat.
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U can just about forget any of this crap...the folks who deal with this stuff, they guys who do real anti terror stuff are not going to release info like this. Its all smoke and mirrors while they get a handle on whats going on. A few facts to shut everybody up..or get them talking. SOF units and the guys tasked with combatting these guys play by different rules. Its not CT stuff...i've seen it. U can look at books that deal with the run up to the Iraq invasion, from a SOF standpoint, its all in there...compare that to what was reported on the news. Besides these guys have to track down every lead and try and figure out whats a threat.
Forget about it?
Bush is the one that brought it up last night
Both claims are bullshit
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The threat is real....u have no idea whats going on and can't back up any of it. The FBI or CIA don't display what they're doing..u can get some half assed anaylst who used to be..or has ties to...act as a talking head on TV. Thats not like real intel.
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The threat is real....u have no idea whats going on and can't back up any of it. The FBI or CIA don't display what they're doing..u can get some half assed anaylst who used to be..or has ties to...act as a talking head on TV. Thats not like real intel.
Dude just stop, whatever if they want to believe it's ALL a fear tactic then let them. They don't know anyone "in the system", Regean's people Bush 41, and Carter (who has a DAMN good book out right now) will all agree with you.
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The threat is real....u have no idea whats going on and can't back up any of it. The FBI or CIA don't display what they're doing..u can get some half assed anaylst who used to be..or has ties to...act as a talking head on TV. Thats not like real intel.
I didn't say the threat of terrorism wasn't real (although I believe it's way over-hyped). I said those two claims by Bush were bullshit and people "in the know" agree.
Neither of those "plots" were real threats by any definition
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I know its a no-win argument..sometimes I get drawn down the rabbithole. Well i think I'll go watch sportscenter and clear my mind.
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I know its a no-win argument..sometimes I get drawn down the rabbithole. Well i think I'll go watch sportscenter and clear my mind.
HH - I'm open minded - please feel free to explain to me in specific detail why either of these two alleged plots were anywhere close to being workable, feasible, or anything more that talk.
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HH - I'm open minded - please feel free to explain to me in specific detail why either of these two alleged plots were anywhere close to being workable, feasible, or anything more that talk.
::)
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I'm still waiting for someone to show me some proof that either of these were anything more than talk.
Here's some facts to help you get started.
The 7 schmucks arrested in the Liberty plot were put on trial last December.
The result - 1 was acquited and the judge declared a mistrial against the other 6
from Time Magazine: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1694430,00.html
The entire situation was concocted by the government. The warehouse was paid for by the FBI, and the defendants moved their operations there at the suggestion of an undercover informant who was also paid by the FBI. The swearing-in ceremony was led by the informant — who at another point also suggested a plan to bomb FBI offices in Miami. "The case was written, produced and directed by the FBI," defense attorney Albert Levin said in his closing arguments.
Defendant Batiste, a father of four who ran a struggling construction business, claimed he was conning the informant, just as the informant was conning him. He says he was desperate for money, so he went along with the informant in hopes of tricking him into giving him $50,000..
But the heavy reliance on informants has led to cases that sometimes appear to exist in the land of make-believe. At one point during the Liberty City investigation, Batiste suggested to the informant that they could blow up the Sears Tower so that it would fall into Lake Michigan and create a tsunami. "Where did you get this idea?" Batiste's attorney later asked him on the stand. His answer was believable: "Just from watching the movies."
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OK - now tell me why I should believe this was anything more than a bunch of bullshit.
Is this the best example Bush can come up with after 6 years of the WAR on TERROR?
Surely there are better examples than this
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http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/10/06/whitehouse.plots/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,277337,00.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0508071ftdix1.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1208061shareef1.html
If I had more time I would post more but this only took 5 mins.
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In terms of our NATION'S FUTURE, Bush gets an A.
I know it might sound funny. But in 20 years when they look back, what will they see?
----He set up what, 50+ bases in the middle east to guard against Russia, China, and everyone else in the future.
----He put in motion the arabian oil pipeline, owned by US firms.
----He installed Karzai in afghanistan who assigned caspian sea oil access to the USA. (11 tril in oil there that is known- conservative estimate)
----He installed a govt in Iraq which signed over 80% of their future oil to US companies.
----He "made us aware" of how bad islamofascism was (by letting 911 happen), which allowed us to (assuming McCain's declaratio nthere will be more wars) start a series of wars to ensure in the end, white wins over brown, west wins over east.
----Our grandkids will be safer and richer. Yes, Bush borrowed 5 trillion to do it. But the bases are priceless, the iraqi oil we own is worth at least 40 tril.
Now, you can be trivial and say some of the points are wrong, that's okay, you just haven't researched it yet, or youre too blind to admit it. Yes, we were absolutely lied to in order to let this happen. Yes, loss of life was horrible and all of this was done in a fearmongering manner. Yes, a recession will come. Yes, life's gonna suck during this period.
But history will write down what a great success this was. We colonized Afghanistan, Iraq, and possibly iran. Isn't that incredible? Just blows the mind. We're all juding this as a failure, but in terms of energy and global safety, it's a win.
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http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080130/FOREIGN/458073763/1001
Case in point.
Increased Iraqi oil revenues stemming from high prices and improved security are piling up in the Federal Reserve Bank of New York rather than being spent on needed reconstruction projects, a Washington Times study of Iraq's spending and revenue figures has shown.
The money is there....their money. We don't spend ours and they spend theirs paying our companies..eventually anyway.
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In terms of our NATION'S FUTURE, Bush gets an A.
I know it might sound funny. But in 20 years when they look back, what will they see?
----He set up what, 50+ bases in the middle east to guard against Russia, China, and everyone else in the future.
----He put in motion the arabian oil pipeline, owned by US firms.
----He installed Karzai in afghanistan who assigned caspian sea oil access to the USA. (11 tril in oil there that is known- conservative estimate)
----He installed a govt in Iraq which signed over 80% of their future oil to US companies.
----He "made us aware" of how bad islamofascism was (by letting 911 happen), which allowed us to (assuming McCain's declaratio nthere will be more wars) start a series of wars to ensure in the end, white wins over brown, west wins over east.
----Our grandkids will be safer and richer. Yes, Bush borrowed 5 trillion to do it. But the bases are priceless, the iraqi oil we own is worth at least 40 tril.
ummm do you have links to any of this?
Our bases in the ME are almost nilche, Saudia Arabia kicked us out a Loooong time ago, as where as well.
LOL, bro you do know who owns that pipeline don't you? Aramco, A Saudi business, they bought out all US investors.
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http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/10/06/whitehouse.plots/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,277337,00.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0508071ftdix1.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1208061shareef1.html
If I had more time I would post more but this only took 5 mins.
I specifically said the TWO plot's he mentioned in the State of the Union were BULLSHIT
Why didn't Bush pick any of the plots in the links you listed???
Any convictions (besides Jose Padilla?)
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youandme,
I stopped following most of this months ago. Some of what I think might be outdated, who knows. we do have almost 2 dozen permanent bases in iraq alone, dont we? it was designed to supplement the saudi bases, as we knew they were ending.
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240 -
"we" don't own any Iraqi oil. One could argue that all we've done is help the oil companies secure it for the future (this is debatable as a future Iraq govt. could just nationalize it all) where it will be sold on the world market at the highest price possible
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240 -
"we" don't own any Iraqi oil. One could argue that all we've done is help the oil companies secure it for the future (this is debatable as a future Iraq govt. could just nationalize it all) where it will be sold on the world market at the highest price possible
no, this part is wrong.
research hydrocarbon law. 80% of it must be sold to US firms in USD, and this cannot be changed by future leaders.
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no, this part is wrong.
research hydrocarbon law. 80% of it must be sold to US firms in USD, and this cannot be changed by future leaders.
I've posted ad naseaum about the hydrocarbon law
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=160301.0
Has it passed yet???
No because the Iraqi's aren't too keen on us taking all their national wealth
Even if we do get Iraq to pass this there's no way to enforce it if Iraq (a sovereign nation) decides to just nationalize the asset - say for reasons of national defense
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we'll have many permanent bases there. they nationalize oil, we promptly bomb the shit out of them.
Iraq announced last week they're about to reach terms for longterm us bases there, NBC reported it and it was discussed here.
there is no way they can just decide to screw us out of the oil if we're there, armed and smiling.
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we'll have many permanent bases there. they nationalize oil, we promptly bomb the shit out of them.
Iraq announced last week they're about to reach terms for longterm us bases there, NBC reported it and it was discussed here.
there is no way they can just decide to screw us out of the oil if we're there, armed and smiling.
The sovereign nation of Iraq can kick out the US whenever it wants. We've completely altered the power structure in the middle east. At some point Iraq could decide to align itself with Iran, or China or Russia or anyone.
The idea that the US owns that oil into infinity is naive
Even now it doesn't belong to the US citizens (the people who paid to secure it).
International Oil companies are the ones in line not the US citizen
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no, this part is wrong.
research hydrocarbon law. 80% of it must be sold to US firms in USD, and this cannot be changed by future leaders.
He's right. The US doesn't own anything. The corporations have the rights--some are US based, some British, and some are multi-national.
The oil companies have no allegiance to our country. They can up and relocate in a heartbeat.
It is not our country that profits from the Iraqi theft.
The gas prices haven't gone down.
The oil proceeds do not pay for the 100s of billions that the war costs--we pay for that with our tax dollars.
So we are paying for the Iraqi oil 2 times--once to secure the rights for corporations (with interest) and a second time at the pump.
The list of prosperous accomplishments you created does not inure to my benefit.
As for the safer part--it's the US's fucking with foreign elections/politics that created the hatred/animosity towards us. How is more fucking in foreign affairs going to change that dynamic. The Iranians still hate us for imposing the Shah on them.
How you can conclude that our grandkids will be safer & richer in the future is beyond me.
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At some point Iraq is actually going to want to pump and sell that oil and if the US can't provide the secure environment in which to do that they will look to some other country
BTW - why should the US taxpayer be paying (borrowing) to finance this security only to have all the benefit go the the oil conglomerates?
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Here's an idea
Let's get the oil flowing and tell the Saudi's to go fuck themselves.
Before the oil companies get to make 1 penny of profit the US taxpayer has to be paid back for our entire investment in that country plus a reasonable ROI
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Here's an idea
Let's get the oil flowing and tell the Saudi's to go fuck themselves.
Before the oil companies get the make 1 penny of profit the US taxpayer has to be paid back for our entire investment in that country plus a reasonable ROI
AMEN. 8)
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we'll have many permanent bases there. they nationalize oil, we promptly bomb the shit out of them.
Iraq announced last week they're about to reach terms for longterm us bases there, NBC reported it and it was discussed here.
there is no way they can just decide to screw us out of the oil if we're there, armed and smiling.
No bro it was all a pipe dream (pun intended).
NBC, reported the temporary command post, not the same thing as bases.
The real people who are benefiting are the Saudis, the USmarketplace got bought out, not completely but enough to know they want to keep the war going to fuel their payroll, cause they saw even in the end the Saudis were going to take over.
Exxon, Chevron, were bought out years ago, were fighting a war to get rid of terror, at the same time allowing the money to be fueled right back into the system of networking terror.
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Wow. Good info coming in....^^^.... :o
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"It was such a riveting speech, Larry Craig only took two bathroom breaks.
Halfway through, Ted Kennedy sent over a couple of drinks to the Bush twins."
-- David Letterman
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In terms of our NATION'S FUTURE, Bush gets an A.
I know it might sound funny. But in 20 years when they look back, what will they see?
----He set up what, 50+ bases in the middle east to guard against Russia, China, and everyone else in the future.
----He put in motion the arabian oil pipeline, owned by US firms.
----He installed Karzai in afghanistan who assigned caspian sea oil access to the USA. (11 tril in oil there that is known- conservative estimate)
----He installed a govt in Iraq which signed over 80% of their future oil to US companies.
----He "made us aware" of how bad islamofascism was (by letting 911 happen), which allowed us to (assuming McCain's declaratio nthere will be more wars) start a series of wars to ensure in the end, white wins over brown, west wins over east.
----Our grandkids will be safer and richer. Yes, Bush borrowed 5 trillion to do it. But the bases are priceless, the iraqi oil we own is worth at least 40 tril.
Now, you can be trivial and say some of the points are wrong, that's okay, you just haven't researched it yet, or youre too blind to admit it. Yes, we were absolutely lied to in order to let this happen. Yes, loss of life was horrible and all of this was done in a fearmongering manner. Yes, a recession will come. Yes, life's gonna suck during this period.
But history will write down what a great success this was. We colonized Afghanistan, Iraq, and possibly iran. Isn't that incredible? Just blows the mind. We're all juding this as a failure, but in terms of energy and global safety, it's a win.
It hard to believe that with all that energy in man power, money , time, death, maiming, new enemies created that it just wouldn't have been easier to find a working alternative to oil and the infastruture to use it.
Think of all the money and jobs this would have created in itself.
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no, this part is wrong.
research hydrocarbon law. 80% of it must be sold to US firms in USD, and this cannot be changed by future leaders.
Have you spoken with any soliders that have served time in Iraq?
I work with a guy that just got back and he was seriously laughing when I told him about your statement that 80% of the oil is ours.
He said that right off the top, 40% goes to the Insurgents. He was also saying how people will just tap into our pipeline and take what they want and then walk away from the leaking line. Everytime one of our trucks crosses a border, the Insurgents take what they want.
He also said that the people over there have been told that it is ok to steal if it is for their family. They drill into water lines, oil lines, take food and walk away from the mess. This is normal procedure for these people.
I really think you need to take a step back from your all knowing stance because you read stuff on the internet. Stop quoting numbers, like they mean something.
Lets hear some information you have recieved first hand from people that have been over there.
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Yeah thats standard practice for arabs...they do it all over the Middle East. The 40% to the insurgents shit..not sure what thats all about. I can walk outside my office and talk to 30 Iraq vets. U have to come to expect these people to steal. Once the Iraqi government takes more copntrol, they'll shoot the biggest offenders and we won't loose so much. We don't 'control" the oil but we're there and we're not going anywhere.