Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: 240 is Back on January 29, 2008, 04:16:16 PM
-
hey guys, I need a lifting program that I can use to put some size on me again.
I'm weighing 170 right now, after being 220 in the past. I gradually lost the 50 pounds, as a result of healthier living, clean diet, and being more actuve, but my lifting has definitely been on the 'bitch' side lately - I'm weaker on all the lifts than I was at 220 obviously, but i'm not making big gains anymore.
I need to lift 4 days per week. Please throw some ideas at me - anything. I typically do 2 mass movements and 1 isolation movement, 8 rep range, total of maybe 12 sets per workout. I've tried going all out for minimal sets, 3 days a week, but the intensity is just not there. thanks!
(http://www.musclewebsites.com/4.jpg)
-
You should check out DC training, I haven't personally run it yet (going to in a few months) but I've seen a lot of guys really blow up on it.
-
got any links? I seriously need something new to shock me into growing.
-
shouldn't you have this down by now? ;)
Here is a link to DC training. I've never tried it, i've always used volume with good results.
http://www.intensemuscle.com/dogg-pound.html (http://www.intensemuscle.com/dogg-pound.html)
-
got any links? I seriously need something new to shock me into growing.
http://www.intensemuscle.com/ - Dantes website.
-
got any links? I seriously need something new to shock me into growing.
240...eat eat and eat some more. i can tell you have troubles with your appetite. just eat "clean" foods...a whole lot of chicken, oatmeal, brown rice, lean beef, salmon....complex carbohydrates, animal proteins, omega fats. you need to give your body what it neeeds for tissue repair. its an extensive process. and dont forget to eat vegetables as well..fiber and phytonutrients are great for building muscle.
-
hey guys, I need a lifting program that I can use to put some size on me again.
I'm weighing 170 right now, after being 220 in the past. I gradually lost the 50 pounds, as a result of healthier living, clean diet, and being more actuve, but my lifting has definitely been on the 'bitch' side lately - I'm weaker on all the lifts than I was at 220 obviously, but i'm not making big gains anymore.
I need to lift 4 days per week. Please throw some ideas at me - anything. I typically do 2 mass movements and 1 isolation movement, 8 rep range, total of maybe 12 sets per workout. I've tried going all out for minimal sets, 3 days a week, but the intensity is just not there. thanks!
(http://www.musclewebsites.com/4.jpg)
I can't believe you're asking that question after being around here for the last 4 or 5 years ?
you know (or should know) that the fastest way is to start pulling and squattin !
frankley I'm disappointed in you !
-
I think you should do GVT on an upper/lower split. One exercise per muscle group. Train each muscle group twice a week. Consider only doing something like 3x8 for the smaller muscle groups like arms and calves. Your split would look something like this.
Day One Upper
5x5 or 6x6 Incline or Flat Presses
5x5 or 6x6 Row Variation
5x5 or 6x6 Shoulder Press or Pull
3x8 Curl
3x8 Tricep Exercise
Day One Lower
5x5 or 6x6 Some Squat Variation
5x5 or 6x6 SLDL
3x8 Calve Raise
Day Two Upper
5x5 or 6x6 Same as day one for chest
5x5 or 6x6 Chin ups or Pull Ups
5x5 or 6x6 Upright Row or Shrugs
3x8 Curl Variation
3x8 Tricep Exercise
Day Two Lower
5x5 or 6x6 Squat Variation
5x5 or 6x6 Leg Presses
3x8 Calve Raises
Don't worry about ab work. Try to keep your rest periods brief. Keep your time in the gym to a minimum.
-
I can't believe you're asking that question after being around here for the last 4 or 5 years ?
you know (or should know) that the fastest way is to start pulling and squattin !
frankley I'm disappointed in you !
He's mostly spamming here.
I;m really even more disappointed that he posts his question HERE, on the training board.
If he had paid some attention, he would know that you can't train for mass or definition or whatever. It's a quesiton of nutrition.
With the best diet, you will grow if you stimulate the muscle, no matter if you do higher reps like in HST or Giant Sets or do a higher load like in HIT or DC.
I did all of them, actually i still do and change the style every 6 months to a year or so. I grew on all of these styles, just do little adjustments inside the style throughout the 6 months.
With all programs, increase the weight constantly and have a week or 2 off every 6-8 weeks.
-
I agree with Geo. And maybe "240 Is Back" should change his handle to "170 and Confused".
K.I.S.S. needs to be applied here. Do not need 4 training sessions a week or any isolation movements if gaining muscle mass in the shortest period of time is the goal. Two training days a week devoted to the heavier Big Boy exercises can produce minor miracles for most people. Full body workouts.
If doing three training day a week, than have monday for lower body, wednsday for upper body and friday for lower body again. The following monday start with upper body, wednsday lower body and friday upper body again. Alternate every monday . If you can not generate enough intensity with this 3 days a week plan than you are not approaching workouts with serious intent. Have at least one resting day between any workout. As a general rule, two workout days in a row is never required. That can reduce recovery time for the CNS, the key to progress.
As DonkeyKong suggest, boost the nutrition but not to the point of eating like a pig. You want impressive muscle mass gains, not winding up looking like the Philsberry Dough Boy. If your eating clean now than just add enough good calories beyond the normal maintenance requirements of a active body. Good Luck.
-
i'd go with lats suggestion. lots of volume might be what youre looking for to put on mass. i wouldnt go to failure on all those sets though.
-
i'd go with lats suggestion. lots of volume might be what youre looking for to put on mass. i wouldnt go to failure on all those sets though.
not unless your jay cutler and your going to be eating 1000 grams of brown rice and 400 grams of protein every day; and have the money for 12+ hours of sleep every day and deep tissue massages and yoga training... no way a guy like 240 could possibly train high volume effectively. requires too much calories too much rest and too much testosterone.
-
not unless your jay cutler and your going to be eating 1000 grams of brown rice and 400 grams of protein every day; and have the money for 12+ hours of sleep every day and deep tissue massages and yoga training... no way a guy like 240 could possibly train high volume effectively. requires too much calories too much rest and too much testosterone.
That depends on his body. You can't make blanket statements like that. High volume can be productive in spurts. Work on power moves for 3 months, high volume for the next three and then repeat. I've seen guys do this. As long as the body recovers then you are okay. Granted 240 has household responsibilities but in that setting he has a lot of time to eat and also sit whereas others might not. Good to see you down here Rob.
-
I agree with Geo. And maybe "240 Is Back" should change his handle to "170 and Confused".
K.I.S.S. needs to be applied here. Do not need 4 training sessions a week or any isolation movements if gaining muscle mass in the shortest period of time is the goal. Two training days a week devoted to the heavier Big Boy exercises can produce minor miracles for most people. Full body workouts.
If doing three training day a week, than have monday for lower body, wednsday for upper body and friday for lower body again. The following monday start with upper body, wednsday lower body and friday upper body again. Alternate every monday . If you can not generate enough intensity with this 3 days a week plan than you are not approaching workouts with serious intent. Have at least one resting day between any workout. As a general rule, two workout days in a row is never required. That can reduce recovery time for the CNS, the key to progress.
As DonkeyKong suggest, boost the nutrition but not to the point of eating like a pig. You want impressive muscle mass gains, not winding up looking like the Philsberry Dough Boy. If your eating clean now than just add enough good calories beyond the normal maintenance requirements of a active body. Good Luck.
hahahaha, a day of rest between every workout ::) oh brother, great "advice". ;D
-
hahahaha, a day of rest between every workout ::) oh brother, great "advice". ;D
What do you suggest instead?
-
What do you suggest instead?
well shit you at least have to train right? taking a day off after every workout you hardly ever train. ::)
-
well shit you at least have to train right? taking a day off after every workout you hardly ever train. ::)
Training every other day means 4 workouts one week an 3 workouts the next week. That can be sufficient, given that the split is done correctly, or if the person does HST (which trains the whole body 3x per week).
-
You should check out DC training, I haven't personally run it yet (going to in a few months) but I've seen a lot of guys really blow up on it.
DC or rest/pause.. rest pause gave me insane strength that carried over well to powerlifting..was VERY motivating.. and I grew like a fucking weed on it.
-
Training every other day means 4 workouts one week an 3 workouts the next week. That can be sufficient, given that the split is done correctly, or if the person does HST (which trains the whole body 3x per week).
::) laziness, you get out of anything what you put in.
-
didnt mentzer advice once every 2 weeks to some clients :D
bottom line you gotta find out what works for you
-
squat and eat, then squat and eat some more.....
-
::) laziness, you get out of anything what you put in.
Wow, that was a great argument ::)
-
being natural and doing tons of volume more than 4 times a week=mistake.
I think 240 said he has 4 days a week to train..ok, do max-ot, just condense it a little. DC could work but it's a different mind set than 99% of people are used to.
-
being natural and doing tons of volume more than 4 times a week=mistake.
I think 240 said he has 4 days a week to train..ok, do max-ot, just condense it a little. DC could work but it's a different mind set than 99% of people are used to.
Why would you say that?
I have had good results with high volume and 5 WO per week.
-
Why would you say that?
I have had good results with high volume and 5 WO per week.
just my opinion. I THINK there are certain ways that a natty should train vs. traditional volume training. I see tons of guys who are in the gym everyday doing endless sets and reps and they go nowhere. I think 90% of these guys would do better if they cut out the bullshit movements that don't do anything and got down to brass tax so to speak. grab some heavy ass weight and pound the shit out of a movement, once you start doing that I think it's a good idea to cut down the volume.
if it works for you great, I was speaking in a general sense.
-
just my opinion. I THINK there are certain ways that a natty should train vs. traditional volume training. I see tons of guys who are in the gym everyday doing endless sets and reps and they go nowhere. I think 90% of these guys would do better if they cut out the bullshit movements that don't do anything and got down to brass tax so to speak. grab some heavy ass weight and pound the shit out of a movement, once you start doing that I think it's a good idea to cut down the volume.
if it works for you great, I was speaking in a general sense.
i agree that working out 3 hours a day is BS for naturals.
Also, doing too many unnecessary warm-up-sets or training half assed is bad, but if you train hard and intense, it doesn't matter if you do 3 sets 15 reps or 2 sets 5 reps.
You have to stimulate the muscle to work and feel 'overloaded' IMO how you do it isn't that important.
Also, you have to change around exercises and styles every now and then.
For example, i did DC for about a year. In the beginning, everything was fine and i progressed good. In the end, it was either boring because the load was to easy OR it was extremly painful on my tendons and joints because i was going heavier all the time.
So the "blasts" got shorter and shorter (higher starting weight and not much room for development) and the pain build up as well.
Going easy on the weight is not an option in DC, also cycling movements or even certain exercises. It is very strict and did not work for me any more.
now i try Milos Giant sets and feel comfortable again. i can do whatever i want in whatever time and line up. There will come the point where i will switch to HIT or DC again.
-
i agree that working out 3 hours a day is BS for naturals.
Also, doing too many unnecessary warm-up-sets or training half assed is bad, but if you train hard and intense, it doesn't matter if you do 3 sets 15 reps or 2 sets 5 reps.
You have to stimulate the muscle to work and feel 'overloaded' IMO how you do it isn't that important.
Also, you have to change around exercises and styles every now and then.
For example, i did DC for about a year. In the beginning, everything was fine and i progressed good. In the end, it was either boring because the load was to easy OR it was extremly painful on my tendons and joints because i was going heavier all the time.
So the "blasts" got shorter and shorter (higher starting weight and not much room for development) and the pain build up as well.
Going easy on the weight is not an option in DC, also cycling movements or even certain exercises. It is very strict and did not work for me any more.
now i try Milos Giant sets and feel comfortable again. i can do whatever i want in whatever time and line up. There will come the point where i will switch to HIT or DC again.
I'm a BIG believer in overload, overloading the muscle on a consistant basis is what I THINK is the most effective way for a natty to progress. Of course I'm talking strictly about training and assuming that diet is "on".
with DC I am constantly overloading the muscle so I love it. I did try using DC with a higher rep range on my last blast and did not find it as effective.
I think anyone who's natty needs to really monitor thier ability to recover while using a program, I also agree with you about the excessive warm ups...get in, get out, that's what I always say.
-
i'm reading about DC.
training is great, i just need a new way to do it. same routines and movements and rep/set schemes are stale for me.
-
You need a tan too.
-
Why does everyone think there is a magic bullet training program for mass?
Training method means little - to get mass, you have to eat for mass.
-
240...i know i am constantly giving out advice, and the advice i am giving out is constantly changing...but heres a piece of advice
just have fun. go to the gym and have a good time because you love lifting weights. dont worry about whats the most effective training routine. all of them are effective if you are lifting heavy and with some intensity. ...just go in the gym and have a good time throwing around soem heavy ass shit.
-
this is the program that gave me the most mass go throw it twice and then let me know if you want the follow up. dont forget to eat while on this. 6 meals a day.
Structural Program
Week 1
Monday - Back Sets Reps
supported bent rows pyramid warm ups then 4x8
pulldowns to the front 5 10-12
one arm rows 4 8-10
seated rows 4 12-15
Tuesday - Chest
incline barbell pyramid warm ups then 4x8
incline DB press 4-6 6-10
*flat flies 5 8-10
*flat DB press 5 8-10
dips 3 max
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - Shoulders
smith machine front press pyramid warm ups then 4x8
seated side laterals 5 8-10
bent laterals 5 10-12
up right rows 3 10-12
shrugs 3 10
Friday - Arms
close grip bench pyramid warm ups then 5x5
lying triceps extension 3 3
triceps pushdowns 4 4
alternate DB curls warm ups then 3x5, 1-2x8-10
preacher curls 3 8-10
alternate hammer curls 3 10-12
Saturday - Legs
squats pyramid warm ups then 4x15
leg press warm ups then 3x10-12
lying leg curls pyramid warm ups then 4x12-15
leg extensions 3 15
* - supersets
Week 2
Monday - Back Sets Reps
reverse grip bent rows pyramid warm ups then 5x6-8
seated rows 4 8-15
reverse grip pulldowns 4 8-10
pulldowns to chest 3-4 10-12
hammer one arm rows 3 8-10
Tuesday - Chest
incline barbell press pyramid warm ups then 5x4
flat DB press warm ups 4x6-8
seated chest press 4 8-10
pec dec 5 10-12
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - Shoulders
2 arm DB press warm ups then 6x8-10
seated side laterals 3 8-12
upright rows 3 8-12
rear delt machine 5 12-15
Friday - Arms
Machine dips pyramid warm ups then 5x8-10
triceps extension machine 4 8-10
one arm DB extensions 2-3 6-10
alternate DB curls warm ups then 3x6
machine preacher curls 3-4 8-10
barbell curls 3 8-10
Saturday - Legs
squats pyramid warm ups then 5x5
lunges 5 6-10
lying leg curls Warm ups then 5x8-12
Week 3
Monday - Back Sets Reps
T-bar rows pyramid warm ups then 5x5
seated rows warm ups then 3x8-10
reverse grip pulldowns 3 8-10
pulldowns to the front 5 12-15
machine high grip row 3 8-10
Tuesday - Chest
bench press pyramid warm ups then 5x15,12,10,8,6
incline DB press 5 6-8
flat flies 5 8-10
dips 3 max
pec deck 3 12-15
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - Shoulders
front press pyramid warm ups then 5x15,12,10,8,6
seated side laterals 5 8-10
rear delt machine warm ups then 4x8-10
front raise 3 8-10
bent lateral raise 3 12
Friday - Arms
lying triceps extension warm ups then 5x6-10
overhead rope 3 8-12
triceps pushdowns 4 8-10
preacher curls 6 6-8
alternate DB curls warm ups then 4, 6, 8, 10
DB concentration curls 1-2 10-12
Saturday - Legs
leg press warm ups then 3x6, 1x8-10, 1x12-15, 2-3x25+
lying leg curls warm ups then 4x8-10
lunges 4 8-12
Week 4
Monday - Back Sets Reps
bent over rows (optional grip) pyramid warm ups then 8x8
close grip pulldowns 5 6-8
pulldowns front 4 10-15
Tuesday - Chest
incline barbell press pyramid warm ups then 5x6-8
flat DB press warm ups then 5x6-8
pec dec 5 10-12
bench press 3 12-15
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - Shoulders
smith machine front press pyramid warm ups then 5x8
seated side laterals warm ups then 5x10-12
front alternate raises 3 10-12
2 arm cable bent 5 12-15
Friday - Arms
alternate DB curls pyramid warm ups then 2x4, 1x6-8, 1x10
preacher curls warm ups 3x6-8
barbell curls 3 10
close grip bench warm ups 5x5
lying triceps extension 3 8-10
overhead rope 4 10-12
Saturday - Legs
hack squats pyramid warm ups then 5x15,12,10,8,6
lunges 3 6-10
deadlifts 3 8-10
leg extensions 3 12-15
lying leg curl 3 10-12
Week5
Monday - Back Sets Reps
T-bar rows pyramid warm ups then 5-6x6-10
reverse grip pulldowns 4 8-12
seated rows 4 8-10
wide grip gravitron 4 10-15
hammer close grip pull downs 3 10-12
Tuesday – Chest
incline DB press pyramid warm ups then 3x4, 2x6-8
flat DB press 5 8-12
seated chest press 1-2 sets then 1- strip set
pec deck 3 12-15
dips 3 max
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - Shoulders
Standing front press pyramid warm ups then 5x5, 3x8
seated side laterals 4 8-10
upright rows 3-4 8-10
one arm cable bent 3 12-15
Friday - Arms
triceps pushdowns pyramid warm ups then 5x6-10
one arm DB extensions 3 8-10
lying triceps extension 3 10-12
preacher curls warm ups then 3x6, 2x8, hammer curls 3 8-10
DB concentration curls 3 6-8
Barbell curls 3 10
Saturday - Legs
hack squats or squats pyramid warm ups then 5x8
one legged leg press warm ups 3-4x10-12
lying leg curls warm ups 4x8-12
leg extension 4x15
dead lifts 3x12
-
I have always done about 12 sets per bodypart. 3 exercises. Pyramid up in weight. Go to failure on 1 or 2 sets per exercise. Train each bodypart every 5 to 7 days. It has always worked for me. Everybody hits a plateu every now and then. But if you keep at it you will eventually be able to do more reps with the same weight and then increase the weight. Find exercises that produce results for you. Nutrition is very important. If you don't eat enough calories you will not grow. A ratio that works very well for me with minimum fat gain is 1.5 grams of protein, 2 grams of carbs per lb of bodyweight. My fat intake comes mostly from healthy fats like egg yolks and flax seed oil. I suggest you purchase a bodybuilding nutrition book by Chris Aceto. You probably won't read this anyway since I gave you the exact same advice about 4 years ago.