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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 05:03:44 AM

Title: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 05:03:44 AM
-ing genetics?

For example: Person A has below average bodybuilding genetics and lifts for over 30 years, producing Person B who has average bodybuilding genetics who lifts for 30 years, producing Person C who has above average bodybuilding genetics, producing Person D who has good bodybuilding genetics, producing Person E who has excellent bodybuilding genetics...etc...

Or would it work in an entirely different manner?

Discuss....
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: Bluto on February 11, 2008, 05:24:31 AM
bodybuilding genetics are created back in the day when we were swinging from trees in the jungle.

the less human you are = the more ape you are still = the better genetics for building muscle you have.

the more human you are, the more evolved you are = the less ape you are still = the worse genetics for building muscle you have.

Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Dragon on February 11, 2008, 05:28:05 AM
-ing genetics?

For example: Person A has below average bodybuilding genetics and lifts for over 30 years, producing Person B who has average bodybuilding genetics who lifts for 30 years, producing Person C who has above average bodybuilding genetics, producing Person D who has good bodybuilding genetics, producing Person E who has excellent bodybuilding genetics...etc...

Or would it work in an entirely different manner?

Discuss....

and then  person F with freaky elite bbing genetics fu*ks up and makes person G : arnold's son.  
7 generations of sweat and blood down the toilet.
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: Bluto on February 11, 2008, 05:40:13 AM
Are you trying to tell us something about skin color and bodybuilding?

nah jay cutlers and schwarzeneggers ancestors were probably some pretty big apes, as well as ronnie colemans and lee haneys



Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: jaejonna on February 11, 2008, 05:41:31 AM
Well If you are aryan it doesnt matter how many generations pass, you will have in you superiour blood.  ::)
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 05:45:33 AM
So the consensus is that no change can be effected within several generations? It must go much further back?
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: jaejonna on February 11, 2008, 05:46:49 AM
So the consensus is that no changed can be effected within several generations? It must go much further back?
Probably 6 to 10 generations... is my guess , but that would mean like 6 to 10 generations of family members busting thier arses and pushing themselves to their genetic potential.
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 05:49:21 AM
Probably 6 to 10 generations... is my guess , but that would mean like 6 to 10 generations of family members busting thier arses and pushing themselves to their genetic potential.

Fuck...so my entire lineage is cursed with shitty bb genetics.... :o :-[
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: Bluto on February 11, 2008, 05:49:48 AM
So the consensus is that no changed can be effected within several generations? It must go much further back?

well if you got decent genetics for bodybuilding already and you get ronnie colemans sister pregnant that might speed up things

but if you keep on breeding with people with lousy genetics you are not gonna be able to change that depending on what you do in your lifetime, it's gotta be there from the start i think
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: columbusdude82 on February 11, 2008, 05:53:23 AM
I see someone has fallen into the trap of Lamarckism, or the inheritance of acquired characteristics... ::)
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 05:55:09 AM
I see someone has fallen into the trap of Lamarckism, or the inheritance of acquired characteristics... ::)

Elaborate Lord of the Midwest!
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 05:57:55 AM
I see someone has fallen into the trap of Lamarckism, or the inheritance of acquired characteristics... ::)

OK...which ancestors gave Coleman and Sergio Olivia their ridiculous genetics?
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: medz zeppelin on February 11, 2008, 05:59:33 AM
it's the genetics of both people being superior that would warrant the best genetics
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: columbusdude82 on February 11, 2008, 06:05:06 AM
Elaborate Lord of the Midwest!

I refer you to the Evolutionary Gospel According to St Dawkins (PBUH), AKA The Blind Watchmaker... He discusses (and destroys) Lamarckism in one of the later chapters.

OK...which ancestors gave Coleman and Sergio Olivia their ridiculous genetics?

Ummm.... their parents? ??? Just a wild stab in the dark...
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: Bluto on February 11, 2008, 06:05:37 AM
OK...which ancestors gave Coleman and Sergio Olivia their ridiculous genetics?

maybe they have one and the same

(http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/exotic-pictures-breeders-babies/gorilla-pictures-breeders-babies/pictures/gorilla-0001.jpg)

Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: columbusdude82 on February 11, 2008, 06:06:11 AM
maybe they have one and the same

(http://www.gotpetsonline.com/pictures-gallery/exotic-pictures-breeders-babies/gorilla-pictures-breeders-babies/pictures/gorilla-0001.jpg)



Good thinking, Supermoderator :)
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: _bruce_ on February 11, 2008, 06:08:24 AM
I guess thousands of years - hundred generations all busting their asse(t)s, after that adaptions and mutations may set in.
Happy Breeding TK  ;D
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: Red Hook on February 11, 2008, 06:15:42 AM
there are too many factors to take into account, when you look at some of the great athletes their parents are/were average at best.

Call it the random chances of nature
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 06:16:22 AM
I guess thousands of years - hundred generations all busting their asse(t)s, after that adaptions and mutations may set in.
Happy Breeding TK  ;D

That is the question: does one work hard in the gym knowing that gains and progress will always be shit due to crappy genetics or does one....?

Die Frage, die sich jeder stellen muss....
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: _bruce_ on February 11, 2008, 06:22:02 AM
That is the question: does one work hard in the gym knowing that gains and progress will always be shit due to crappy genetics or does one....?

Die Frage, die sich jeder stellen muss....

The topic is way out of reach - I wouldn't bother too much.
I'm sure that nearly everybody can get somewhat more muscular and leaner than before...  finally looking "good".
To be way above average has to be in your basic setup.
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 06:24:31 AM
The topic is way out of reach - I wouldn't bother too much.
I'm sure that nearly everybody can get somewhat more muscular and leaner than before...  finally looking "good".
To be way above average has to be in your basic setup.


Also sprach Bruce....Herr Deutschlands und Getbigs!
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: _bruce_ on February 11, 2008, 06:33:40 AM
Also sprach Bruce....Herr Deutschlands und Getbigs!

Hey - just the facts, please  ;D
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 06:35:09 AM
Hey - just the facts, please  ;D

Uhmm...Oesterreicher? Schweizer?
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: The Luke on February 11, 2008, 07:14:51 AM
These types of threads always reveal the deplorable failing of the American edumacational system...

Facts:
-The best/most favourable genetic predisposition to producing muscle mass would most probably be a Hox gene mutation... either a deficient or inactive myostatin gene (or perhaps another Hox gene mutation as there have been some studies showing that other genes have equally powerful effects on muscle tissue/muscle mass).

   However, there is yet to be any long-term study of the effects of myostatin deficiency as no completely myostatin deficient adults have been identified (a seven year old is being studied). Many geneticists believe that extreme myostatin deficiency leads inevitably to early onset ARMA (Age Related Muscle Atrophy) and other muscle wasting disorders via the mechanism of depletion of the finite resource of myocyte satellite cells.

   Also, there is good evidence from animal studies that myostatin deficients do not respond to exercise or conditioning... therefore a myostatin mutant may be unable to build any muscle beyond that created by the maturation process.

-Being "more ape-like" does not mean that someone would be better able to build muscle.
   Humans are distinctly different from chimps, gorillas and orangutans in the adaptions within their muscle tissue: humans are designed for extended effort, not maximal momentary output.

At some point in human history an evolutionary pressure selectively selected humans for muscular endurance. This may have been a societal pressure (slavery or farming are good contenders) but most likely it was the same evolutionary pressure (climate change) that adapted human locomotor mechanisms for endurance running, as evidenced by the arch in the human foot (which is without precedent in the great apes or the archaic/fossil hominids). As a result, humans have evolved for heavy workloads... not maximum power (ie: maximum muscle mass).

A cold-adapted apeman creature (something akin to the North American Sasquatch) deriving from a lineage that never adapted to such endurance requirements would indeed carry significantly more muscle mass than a human being... but would have so little endurance that it would not be able to tolerate the training loads required to stimulate further muscle growth.

In laymans terms... he'd be a hairy powerlifter with a TEN rep max that would exceed the tolerances of his bones and connective tissues and lacking the cardiovascular stamina to do more than ten reps.

This is a real phenomenon, male gorillas have only a 30 second exhaustion threshold... and even the act of mating (which rarely exceeds a few seconds effort) constitutes a serious risk to their lives: heart-attack; stroke; embolisms etc.




Long story short, no matter the selection process, the breeding of an individual with the optimal genetic predisposition to bodybuilding would take hundreds of generations and would more than likely be hampered by genetic limitations.

The fact that exceedingly muscular humans do not crop up in the general population through random mutation seems to imply that mutations of the Hox (master control) genes which lead to such aberrant muscularity are somehow deleterious to the propagation of such mutations (ie: reduce the reproductive prospects of such mutants).


We need to better define our terms... the best bodybuilding genetics may well be a genetic predisposition to tolerate the drug regimen required to build the level of muscle mass of a professional bodybuilder, a ratio of muscle mass to skeletal frame that is not seen anywhere else in nature.

Just my two cents... it's ALL DRUGS.


The Luke
PS-no Bigfoot questions please, let's keep this thread on topic.
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: Tapeworm on February 11, 2008, 07:23:00 AM
Call it the random chances of nature

Call the milkman papa.
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: TopTraining on February 11, 2008, 07:51:01 AM
Changing your DNA , and ape genetics, this place has way too many people who failed kindergarden.
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: The Luke on February 11, 2008, 10:53:13 AM
TopTraining,

Just wait till someone asks: "How do I change my genetics?"



The Luke
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: _bruce_ on February 11, 2008, 11:27:02 AM
Uhmm...Oesterreicher? Schweizer?

Nö, yugoslavischer Tuerke  = Österreicher ;D
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybuild
Post by: Deicide on February 11, 2008, 06:54:42 PM
Nö, yugoslavischer Tuerke  = Österreicher ;D

Des wor ober kloar!
Title: Re: How many generations would have to pass for a descendant to have good bodybu
Post by: SaleenS7525T on February 11, 2008, 08:34:10 PM
-ing genetics?

For example: Person A has below average bodybuilding genetics and lifts for over 30 years, producing Person B who has average bodybuilding genetics who lifts for 30 years, producing Person C who has above average bodybuilding genetics, producing Person D who has good bodybuilding genetics, producing Person E who has excellent bodybuilding genetics...etc...

Or would it work in an entirely different manner?

Discuss....

From jaejonna
"Probably 6 to 10 generations... is my guess , but that would mean like 6 to 10 generations of family members busting thier arses and pushing themselves to their genetic potential."

It seems like some of you guys think that by lifting you are improving your children's bbing genetics. You are not. You can lift for decades and reach your absolute limits bbing wise but that will have zero affect on the genes you pass on to your kids. You lifting does not equal more muscular children. The only way to deliberately improve your children's muscular genetics would be selective breeding(unless you can alter them manually) or dumb luck like someone said about many top athletes having very average parents, they just got lucky in the combination of 2 averages equaled an extraordinary, random probability.