Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: dogpound on February 15, 2008, 11:21:09 AM
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Hey guys. Just curious, what exactly does the crash feel like when you come off the juice. I know it isn't good,but do you feel like total crap 24 hours a day? I know strength and size will go down, but mentally how bad is it?
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Bro it all depends on who you are but you have to come off in order to grow or those receptors will never clear...... Also I have never lost size strength yes but size no just eat and eat a lot......
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Thanks man! Actually, I haven't done any juice yet. I was more curious about the mental part because I have had depression in the past. I have felt good the last couple years with no medicine. I just did'nt want to revisit the depression stuff. It was bad.
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Bro it all depends on who you are but you have to come off in order to grow or those receptors will never clear...... Also I have never lost size strength yes but size no just eat and eat a lot......
what do you think about getting into ketosis during pct...so any time your body doesnt have nutrints it goes for fat instead of glucose(amino acids..)..think it would help keep size? id be eating a to caloric surplus...but in ketosis...
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what do you think about getting into ketosis during pct...so any time your body doesnt have nutrints it goes for fat instead of glucose(amino acids..)..think it would help keep size? id be eating a to caloric surplus...but in ketosis...
amino acids are not glucose, hope this helps candy.
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amino acids are not glucose, hope this helps candy.
;D ;D
your an idiot. lol ;)
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what do you think about getting into ketosis during pct...so any time your body doesnt have nutrints it goes for fat instead of glucose(amino acids..)..think it would help keep size? id be eating a to caloric surplus...but in ketosis...
Have you ever been in ketosis. Your strength levels will fall lots and lots. The best idea is if you need to run a ketogenic diet do it before you run a cycle. Thats why the diet is also called the pre-steroid diet. The purpose of PCT is to get your body back to a state of homeostasis as fast as possible, and in opinion ketosis would defeat this purpose. You would lose strength and size, while trying to retain both.
Ketosis before cycle, and caloric overload after! When I say caloric overload I do not mean garbage.
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Hey guys. Just curious, what exactly does the crash feel like when you come off the juice. I know it isn't good,but do you feel like total crap 24 hours a day? I know strength and size will go down, but mentally how bad is it?
If you follow HCG and PCT protocols I run, the crash will be very minimal. When you do start PCT it is important to keep motivation and calories all up. If you feel like getting lazy and sitting on the couch make your self get to the gym. This will separate successful cycles from unsuccessful cycles, you need to continue just like you were still on cycle. I cant stress this enough.
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Have you ever been in ketosis. Your strength levels will fall lots and lots. The best idea is if you need to run a ketogenic diet do it before you run a cycle. Thats why the diet is also called the pre-steroid diet. The purpose of PCT is to get your body back to a state of homeostasis as fast as possible, and in opinion ketosis would defeat this purpose. You would lose strength and size, while trying to retain both.
Ketosis before cycle, and caloric overload after! When I say caloric overload I do not mean garbage.
bro thats complete bullshit. you will not get weaker as a result of ketosis.what will make you weaker is not getting enough protein and not getting enough calories.
i dont eat much carbs anyways. so for me, homeostasis would be a low carb/semi keto diet anyway.
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To get into a state of ketosis, you will need extremely low amount of carbs. Go ahead and run a keto diet during PCT candy then go and tell me its BS. Ive run keto diets with high calories in the past and trust me your strength drops, especially when coming off of AAS.
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Yea it's bullshit because 4thAD has no clue what he's talking about ::)
Sometimes you really frustrate me Cand. I try to be as helpful as I can and chastise you only when it's absolutely necessary, but godamn man, you need to learn to take advice and ditch the know-it all attitude, seriously. You are really going to turn a lot of people away from even replying to your posts and we have some really knowledgeable people here that know MUCH more than you because we've been through it and tried it.
Go ahead and do it your way and see how great you feel in PCT. I know even when you feel like a lump of shit you'll still come on here telling us how great things are and that you are busting out PR's left and right anyway :/
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Yea it's bullshit because 4thAD has no clue what he's talking about ::)
Sometimes you really frustrate me Cand. I try to be as helpful as I can and chastise you only when it's absolutely necessary, but godamn man, you need to learn to take advice and ditch the know-it all attitude, seriously. You are really going to turn a lot of people away from even replying to your posts and we have some really knowledgeable people here that know MUCH more than you because we've been through it and tried it.
Go ahead and do it your way and see how great you feel in PCT. I know even when you feel like a lump of shit you'll still come on here telling us how great things are and that you are busting out PR's left and right anyway :/
Haha your starting to show the frustrations of Trab! LMAO good shit bro...
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To get into a state of ketosis, you will need extremely low amount of carbs. Go ahead and run a keto diet during PCT candy then go and tell me its BS. Ive run keto diets with high calories in the past and trust me your strength drops, especially when coming off of AAS.
My man 4thAD speaks the truth, dizzle. Going Keto during PCT is a very bad idea, your theory sounds okay, but in practice it simply will not work. Your strength will always drop when coming off AAS, subtract the carbs that were balooning those biceps up, and its a double whammy.
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well im on the anabolic diet right now...so carbss are not what are making me bigger. (well, on the weekend they are).... im just not doing a full keto during the week, becaus i dont monitor my "hidden carbs" like in nuts or greens...i just keep ALL starches, fruits, carbs, sugars out of my diet other than a cup or two of broccoli a day and peanut butter, almonds, eggs, and whats in my whey.
honestly..i run much better on fats. my fat metabolism is awesome. and i feel great on low/no carbs too. i get moody and tired and wierd with carbs. constantly hungry too.
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i get moody and tired and wierd with carbs. constantly hungry too.
You're runnin a cycle...you WANT to be hungry.
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bro i have no problems with appetite. when i say i am constantly hungry while eating carbs..i mean CONSTANTLY HUNGRY. on a high carb diet....i could get done eating two full boxes of cereal and 20 egg whites and a couple apples and i will STILL want to eat. its tough for me bro.
on a no carb diet..i get hungry very quickly, and i eat alot of food at each meal...but the difference is that im not obsessed with food, and i do get satiated after meals. 4-5 tablespoons of peanut should make pretty much anybody feel like they do ont need to eat any more.
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Candy, I just read over on MD, where Derick Anthony (i know what some may say about DA, but you cant deny his physique) mentioned that he wishes he would have waited until he was older than 18 to start using gear. He say's 18 was way to young. You may want to re-think your position on this. Your awfully young to be messing with your still growing body. At least wait until your able to buy a beer.
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Candy, I just read over on MD, where Derick Anthony (i know what some may say about DA, but you cant deny his physique) mentioned that he wishes he would have waited until he was older than 18 to start using gear. He say's 18 was way to young. You may want to re-think your position on this. Your awfully young to be messing with your still growing body. At least wait until your able to buy a beer.
every pro bodybuilder started steroids at or around 18..alot of them much younger.
this is my passion.
i dont give a fuck about anything else.
and im not doing it for any other reason than for MYSELF.
...whether or not i ever make it pro, or amatuer, or hell, even if i never even place ina local level competition...none of that matters to me.
what matters to me is that i can look back and say that ive done everything i can to max my body out and create the best physique i possibly could, with what i was given to work with.
maybe you guys dont understand this. maybe you do. ....but i truly, honestly, have no other real desires in my life besides bodybuilding.
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2 things. Crashing does not feel good...but honestly it can be minimized and be manageable...as well as short lived...after PCT is always the hardest part IMO.
Guys that suffer with depression, I can't imagine how hard coming off cycle could end up being for them.
As for the Keto diet and strength loss thing. Candy boy is right...there is no reason to lose strength on a keto diet...if your fat intake is high enough, then you will have strength...not gain strength but you should be able to maintain.
Another note on keto diets...it should be about 50g of carbs per day...not zero. At about 50g your body is still in ketosis, any higher and it's not...the good thing about this is that 50g of carbs per day along with the fat in your diet is enough to sustain you in the gym...if you work a hard manual labor job, well then this would make things difficult.
Final note on this. Once you start with a keto diet you will have an initial dramatic weight loss...this will be all water so no need to freak. Granted, once you lose all this water your strength will go down a touch but it should level off from there.
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2 things. Crashing does not feel good...but honestly it can be minimized and be manageable...as well as short lived...after PCT is always the hardest part IMO.
Guys that suffer with depression, I can't imagine how hard coming off cycle could end up being for them.
As for the Keto diet and strength loss thing. Candy boy is right...there is no reason to lose strength on a keto diet...if your fat intake is high enough, then you will have strength...not gain strength but you should be able to maintain.
Another note on keto diets...it should be about 50g of carbs per day...not zero. At about 50g your body is still in ketosis, any higher and it's not...the good thing about this is that 50g of carbs per day along with the fat in your diet is enough to sustain you in the gym...if you work a hard manual labor job, well then this would make things difficult.
Final note on this. Once you start with a keto diet you will have an initial dramatic weight loss...this will be all water so no need to freak. Granted, once you lose all this water your strength will go down a touch but it should level off from there.
thanks for the back up arnoldjr... i know your a big advocate of the palumbo diet.
i have, in the past, slipped in and out of minor episodes of depression. so i think for me being in ketosis pct will be a good thing for many reasons.
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Here is the Keto diet I have run in the past. It works, but I never felt the strength increase, or feeling of well being. I got this from off another board posted by Mr.E. I ran this diet to a "T" I may give it another try...
Ketogenic Diet for pre steroid use.
For you over weight who need to cut down before you start using you should try the ketogenic diet for two months. If you have the discipline to stick with this you will shed your fat suit and also prove to yourself that your ready for the next step. If you can't stick to it then maybe your not ready for steroids quite yet.
What is a Ketogenic Diet? For starters, ketogenic dieting is based upon the removal of nearly all the carbohydrates form one's diet for a certain period of time. In the absence of carbohydrates, the body will resort to stored fat as it's primary fuel source. Stored fat is broken down into ketones which the body then uses for energy. In order to enter this state of ketosis, one's liver glycogen must be emptied. Ingested carbohydrates are stored in the liver as glycogen, as well as in the muscles. When the liver is deplented of glycogen, a state of ketosis is achieved. Ketones are a by-product of fat burning, therefore while in a state of ketosis, the body is burning stored fat as it's main source of fuel. I'll bypass the explanation as to why this is such a positive occurence.
The object of a ketogenic diet is to deplete the liver of it's glycogen stores as quickly as possible so that fat burning occurs. This is done by severely restricting carbohydrates and eating only sources of proteins and fats. On a Cycical Ketogenic Diet (CKD) carbohydrate restriction lasts for a total of 5-6 days at which time a 1-2 day carbohydrate loading phase designed to replenish Muscle Glycogen stores so that adequate weight training may occur during the following week.
Many people have brought up the issue that a low carbohydrate diet will cause lethargy and weakness. These people were not mentally strong enough to make it through the first few days until they reached a state of ketosis so they experienced the basic lethargy typically associated with low carb diets. They also did not replace any of the missing calories with fat which caused them to feel mesierable due to a lack of adequate calories. They did'nt give themselves or the diet a chance to adapt. Just like with anything else, there is a period of adaptation.
This is not a low carbodydrate diet. It is essentially a NO carbohydrate diet. While on a LOW carb. diet, enough carbs are always eaten to avoid entering into a state of ketosis but not enough carbs or total calories to maintain adequate energy levels. Dropping the carbohydrate count further and raising the fat calories will allow the body to enter ketosis and use ketones, or stored fat as fuel. While in a state of ketosis, one feels energetic and does not experience the general lethargy found with basic LOW carb. diets. Ketones also enable one to naintain regulated insulin levels thoughout the day which again will cause one to feel energetic. Below we can see the difference between a basic low carb diet and the Ketogenic diet.
Basic LOW Carb diet:
*weakness
*lethargy
*low insulin levels
*constant hunger
*moderate fat burning
*muscle loss
*low fat intake
*excessively low total calories
KETOGENIC DIET:
*energy'
*workout intensity
*feelings of well-being
*full and satisfied
*high fat intake
*high level of fat burning'
*minimal muscle loss
*total calories no more than 500 below maintenance
During the carbohydrate depletion phase (during the week) carbohydrate foods such as fruit, breads, grains, candies, cookies, deserts, catsup, dressings, cereals, etc., are not permitted at all. One must check the lable of eveything to ensure that there are no carbs. The key is to keep the daily carb count of 20-40 per day. Some people even require less that 20 to achieve ketosis. This basically allose you a total of roughly 4-8 grams of carbs per meal which would preferalbly come in the form of green vegetables. Watch the dressings as they all have carbs with the exception of vinegar. The only condiments that you can be safe with are mustard and regular, whole mayonnaise.
While on a CKD, one must tailor their workouts to center arount the diet. The carb depletion would begin of Monday and between Monday-Wednesday, the entire body would be trained with weights. In other words, condence the workouts to that they are completed by Wednensay. This will exhaust both your liver glycogen as well as your muscle glycogen. Cardio may continue to be done all week.
At the end of the week, one would perform a grueling full body weight training session after which time the carb loading would begin.
The carb loading may last anywhere between 12-36 hours although I feel it is best to minimize it to 12-18 hours. It consists of basically a full day of cheating (but there are rules). You need jto consume carbs in each meal ranging from 40-120, depending upon the person. The protein stays high but fats must be limited or the total carlories will be too high and new fat will be stored. The idea is refill muscle glycogen so that workouts may be performed with some amount of intensity the following week. Fruits are to be avoided as fructose will only refill liver glycogen which will prevent ketosis form being reestablished until laterin the week. After the carb loak is complete, the depletion phase begins again until the next weekend, During the carb load period, and carbs may be eaten so long as the fat is kept moderately low and there is no fructose consumed.
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I'd imagine that you would feel like crap on that diet...at least a large portion of the time.
With the type of keto diet I like, you don't get that huge carb up...you don't need it.
The reason you would feel bad on the diet listed above is because you are constantly going through that depletion stage...over and over again.
With the way I do it, you do feel like crap at the beginning...usually about the 2nd day into it. For most people this crappy feeling will last only a few days...4-5. For a few others it can take as long as say 10 days or so. However, once you get past that initial stage, once your body gets into full blown ketosis, it's a pretty easy diet to maintain and follow...most simply can't hack that initial start up.
When you do a diet like the one posted above, you are once per wk throwing yourself completely out of ketosis there for you end up having to repeat the sucky part over and over again...make sense?
On the type of Keto diet I like, the Dave method, you do end up eating once cheat meal per wk...1 meal, not a cheat day. This is not enough to throw you out of ketosis...it takes more then 1 meal, but it provides a good shock to your body to keep the fat burning firing...as well as ensuring sanity is maintained, lol!
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Crashing from gear is real. Gear alters your brain chemistry plenty. Coming away from it brings up tons of stuff, both mental and physical.
For me I have a tendency to get a bit down from it when the gains start to go and the fat starts to come on. Mentally you see it as the end of a goal you have reached and "now what?" So this can be hard, you may lose your direction at this time. Thats why people want to get back on so soon after. This attitude will most likely lead to abuse.
Your body may also have a hard time readjusting after a cycle and the longer you are on the worse it will be. I have a tendency to get sick or become injured at this time. Then add the mild post cycle depression to that and you could be in for a rough ride.
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My first cycle was a Test only cycle in 1989.
They never had PCT in those days.
In fact no one told us about the crash.
When I came off I suffered depression, lethargy, sore joints and no sex drive.
I lost all my agression, power and endurance which was bad as I was active in competitive sports.
With no PCT even though the cycle was only 6 weeks long it took me more than 6 months to recover :(
After this it took me nearly 16 years to use juice again as the experiance had left a bad taste in my mouth.
A few years ago I started juicing gain for a while, I kept my cycles moderate and even with proper PCT and recovery times I had problems comming off.
Feeling constantly down afterwards for me was always a big factor.
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AJ would you outline your keto diet in this thread please? I would def like to give it a go. Im trying to get into single digit bf%.
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AJ would you outline your keto diet in this thread please? I would def like to give it a go. Im trying to get into single digit bf%.
the palumbo diet is as follows
6 meals per day. 50 grams protein, 25 grams fat, 10 grams carbs per meal.
pretty easy to follow. no in between snacks. no carbs except for whats hidden in nuts, eggs, and one or two cups of green veggies per day.
dave is big on omega 3 eggs, all natural peanut butter, and wild salmon.
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pretty easy to follow. no in between snacks. no carbs except for whats hidden in nuts, eggs, and one or two cups of green veggies per day.
Actually, green vegtables are not allowed in the diet if fats are being eaten. the reason behind this, is that the foods such as nuts PB, even egg yolk have carbs in them...just a little...if you add in the veggies you end up going over the max allowed carbs to stay in ketosis.
The only time vegtables come into play is usually towards the end of a diet when you begin rotaing your food days between a protein/fat day and a protein/vegtable day
AJ would you outline your keto diet in this thread please? I would def like to give it a go. Im trying to get into single digit bf%.
Check PM
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Actually, green vegtables are not allowed in the diet if fats are being eaten. the reason behind this, is that the foods such as nuts PB, even egg yolk have carbs in them...just a little...if you add in the veggies you end up going over the max allowed carbs to stay in ketosis.
The only time vegtables come into play is usually towards the end of a diet when you begin rotaing your food days between a protein/fat day and a protein/vegtable day
Check PM
I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing there is some magic # of carbs that have you in a ketotic state. You guys make it sound like if you eat 50G carbs a day your there but 55G your not. This does not work like a light switch, I would think this would be obvious with this cheat meal you allow that supposedly does not throw you off.
A small serving of veggies is very low in carbs so you should eat them cause if your on that diet diet too long it is not healthy and Dave knows this. Thats why he has you taking some ridiculous pill that is supposed to replace the fruits and veggies missing in your diet. Sorry but a pill will never replace the real thing, I don't care what their advertising claims.
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I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing there is some magic # of carbs that have you in a ketotic state. You guys make it sound like if you eat 50G carbs a day your there but 55G your not. This does not work like a light switch, I would think this would be obvious with this cheat meal you allow that supposedly does not throw you off.
i totally agree. once your in ketosis, it takes a big spike in insulin to knock you back into a glucose driven metabolism. its not "grams of carbs' that matter...but the hormones circulating in your body... foods that are 70% fat, but have some carbohydrates in them...like peanut butter for example...there is no limit to how much you can eat of it...youll be in ketosis no matter how many grams of carbs you get from peanut butter...because it is 70% fat, and its glycemic load is lower than that of even meat.
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i totally agree. once your in ketosis, it takes a big spike in insulin to knock you back into a glucose driven metabolism. its not "grams of carbs' that matter...but the hormones circulating in your body... foods that are 70% fat, but have some carbohydrates in them...like peanut butter for example...there is no limit to how much you can eat of it...youll be in ketosis no matter how many grams of carbs you get from peanut butter...because it is 70% fat, and its glycemic load is lower than that of even meat.
You are missing Luv's point.
Fibrous carbs will not impact blood sugar and if you are eating that much protein and fats, you will get backed up without some fiber. You got to poop at some point :-X
I really, really hope you don't scare away the really knowledgable ones on this board.
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I'm sorry but I have a hard time believing there is some magic # of carbs that have you in a ketotic state. You guys make it sound like if you eat 50G carbs a day your there but 55G your not. This does not work like a light switch, I would think this would be obvious with this cheat meal you allow that supposedly does not throw you off.
A small serving of veggies is very low in carbs so you should eat them cause if your on that diet diet too long it is not healthy and Dave knows this. Thats why he has you taking some ridiculous pill that is supposed to replace the fruits and veggies missing in your diet. Sorry but a pill will never replace the real thing, I don't care what their advertising claims.
50g of carbs is just an approximate number...if you stay right under that you should be able to remain in ketosis. I'm sure some peoples bodies could allow them to go slightly higher in carb intake and still remain in ketosis...below 50g is just a good average to stay below.
The one cheat meal...yes, it will throw you out of ketosis but only for a few hours...it takes more then one simple meal to get your body to start relying on glycogen for fuel rather then ketone's (fat.)
The "magic pill." It's Juice plus+ and it's not some sort of crazed concoction...all it is is actual fruit and vegtables in powder form...you're still getting all the nutrients of fruits and vegtables without the sugars...that's all it is.
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You are missing Luv's point.
Fibrous carbs will not impact blood sugar and if you are eating that much protein and fats, you will get backed up without some fiber. You got to poop at some point :-X
I really, really hope you don't scare away the really knowledgable ones on this board.
what was wrong with my post, dude?
i dont knwo about you...it seems like one post youll be cool, the next post your attacking me..what the fuck... ??
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what was wrong with my post, dude?
i dont knwo about you...it seems like one post youll be cool, the next post your attacking me..what the fuck... ??
I think they may be confussing you with another guy that went by "Candizzle"? Your not him are you? I dont think you are but the names are similar.
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I think they may be confussing you with another guy that went by "Candizzle"? Your not him are you? I dont think you are but the names are similar.
It's the same guy Luv. Candizzle/Candidate = same dude.
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It's the same guy Luv. Candizzle/Candidate = same dude.
Really, Thanks I thought it was 2 different guys.
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what was wrong with my post, dude?
i dont knwo about you...it seems like one post youll be cool, the next post your attacking me..what the fuck... ??
Why do you always think someone is attacking you?
No one can respond to anything you write or you will get all upset. You need to chill candi. :'(
Nothing was wrong with your post, just chill out man, ok... >:(
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I still have a hard time believing that a keto diet will aid in good solid gains while on cycle, and I would never use a keto diet post cycle. I have seen too many times where people lose lots of muscle on these low carb diets. I am going to run a keto diet while on just HRT dose of test, just to preserve muscle and get leaner. Im pretty lean right now, but I want single digits.
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I still have a hard time believing that a keto diet will aid in good solid gains while on cycle, and I would never use a keto diet post cycle. I have seen too many times where people lose lots of muscle on these low carb diets. I am going to run a keto diet while on just HRT dose of test, just to preserve muscle and get leaner. Im pretty lean right now, but I want single digits.
BTW if somebody here thinks I'm off on my thinking please respond. Alway's willing to listen to new ideas.
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I agree with you 4thAD, I just can't see how it logically makes sense. It's difficult to preserve muscle mass if not nearly impossible while on a Keto diet, but on cycle I dunno, I think it might be individual dependent and how your body's metabolism functions. I just know that personally if I did it, I'd loose muscle and that's not something I'm willing to do.
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You're right, making gains, adding new muscle mass would be imposable on that type of diet. That type of diet is only for leaning out...it's just a good way to lean out and maintain as much muscle as you can. Very efficient and much easier then other methods IMO.
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Its not a new diet by any means, been around for ages. Its really very similar to an Atkins diet.
I think when getting in shape its awesome. You will hold plenty of size and you will get lean and dry. Too long and too strict on it is hard on you and your body. I stayed on a low carb diet for a long time and really like the shape i was able to stay in. It was very easy to stop eating the carbs, it does seem like though that after a while IME your body says "hey enough of this, time to put an end to this nonsense" and it will stop you one way or another. Usually by making you sick and throwing you off track. I have found this will happen to me about 7-9 months on the diet. I ate about 60-100g of carbs a day no cheats, between 3000-4000 cals a day. It was easy once you get into the routine.
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Its not a new diet by any means, been around for ages. Its really very similar to an Atkins diet.
I think when getting in shape its awesome. You will hold plenty of size and you will get lean and dry. Too long and too strict on it is hard on you and your body. I stayed on a low carb diet for a long time and really like the shape i was able to stay in. It was very easy to stop eating the carbs, it does seem like though that after a while IME your body says "hey enough of this, time to put an end to this nonsense" and it will stop you one way or another. Usually by making you sick and throwing you off track. I have found this will happen to me about 7-9 months on the diet. I ate about 60-100g of carbs a day no cheats, between 3000-4000 cals a day. It was easy once you get into the routine.
For the most part I agree with what you said...except for the Atkins part. There are similarities, I can't argue that, but the difference is the foods being eaten, as well as the amounts.
With Atkins, you're basically allowed any non carb food you want, as much fat as you want...it is a high fat diet based around fats, while the other is more of a moderate fat diet based more equally around protein and quality fats.
Curiosity question...this past show you did, you were eating upwards of 4k cal per day?
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why candidildo is commenting "the crash" if he's just a 17 years old retard raging for roids? Ron where are you, please ban him before he die ;D
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For the most part I agree with what you said...except for the Atkins part. There are similarities, I can't argue that, but the difference is the foods being eaten, as well as the amounts.
With Atkins, you're basically allowed any non carb food you want, as much fat as you want...it is a high fat diet based around fats, while the other is more of a moderate fat diet based more equally around protein and quality fats.
Curiosity question...this past show you did, you were eating upwards of 4k cal per day?
No I was eating between 3000-4000 cals probally about 3500 mostly the last 5-6 weeks. Some days closer to 3000 maybe even high 2's then others it was high 3's close to 4. I ate a lot of PB on that diet more than i should have damn I was eating almost a jar a day about 8 weeks out. Had to cut back to half a jar a day. A jar of PB is about 3500 cals. So yeah i was eating a lot of cals at that point probally was near 5000 cals. But as the show got near I had to drop down the PB intake and bring the cals back to get in shape.
I was fairly lean going into the diet, then i ramped up some clen and damn I don't know I was a fat burning machine. The low carb diet just burns the fat off. It seems like you make some progress, get stuck and once you bust past that stuck point where you are not loosing fat it just explodes and the stuff comes off fast.