Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: KillerMonk on March 15, 2008, 02:46:47 AM
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I was reading a Book about Growth Hormone exstracted from Chimpanzes in the late 70s early 80s.The Book is Australian and recounts the Bodybuilding career of a Bodybuilder, its called "Over the Edge"Very good read set in the late 80s early 90s.
In it states that some BBs fell ill to the growth hormone.Anybody in the know anything about this.
About 3 years ago a couple of Cyclists were caught using Equine(Horse)growth hormone and were banned from the IOC for a number of years.
What makes people do this shit,any input would be helpful.
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I know Equine growth was used by a lot of bb'ers a few years ago, called Equigen from Australia. The sellers of the stuff said it was really human growth but on the other hand this product had to be used at like 15-30iu to be "effective".
http://www.anabolicextreme.com/anabolic/new_archives/anex_archive_issue54_QA.htm
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I know Equine growth was used by a lot of bb'ers a few years ago, called Equigen from Australia. The sellers of the stuff said it was really human growth but on the other hand this product had to be used at like 15-30iu to be "effective".
http://www.anabolicextreme.com/anabolic/new_archives/anex_archive_issue54_QA.htm
Thankyou. ;)
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equine growth is not effective in the human body as the peptide chain contains 192 amino acids, unlike human gh which contains 191.
those who use it report lesions and welts at the site of injection.
it seems it is rejected by the human body when administered and the substance therefore has no real role in contributing to the betterment of performance related tasks.
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Arnold used it alot thats why his jaw/mouth looked much like an apes.
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Arnold used it alot thats why his jaw/mouth looked much like an apes.
a plastic surgeon fix that!!! >:( :P :P
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What I think is more disturbing is that in the 90s when HGH was first being used it was harvested from dead bodies :-X
Actually HGH was synthetic around 1990 it was in the 70s 80s that HGH was taken from cadavers.
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I was told Platz tried this stuff
but thats neither here nor there
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rHGH was first produced from E. coli in 1982, but it did not reach the market in significant quantities until the late 1980s. Prior to that, HGH was extracted from the pituitary gland of adolescent male cadavers who had died of trauma. Since it is a lot easier to grow E. coli than to find adolescent male cadavers who died of trauma, it is unlikely that any HGH on the black market has come from cadavers since 1990.
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If I remember it was from Rhesus Monkeys. This was back in the late 70's early 80's.
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If I remember it was from Rhesus Monkeys. This was back in the late 70's early 80's.
human growth hormone only comes from humans (and genetically modified bacteria) and is the only type that will work in humans
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If I remember it was from Rhesus Monkeys. This was back in the late 70's early 80's.
Everyone talked about Rhesus Monkey growth hormone from Grymko to Steve Michalik. The rumor was that Robby and Platz were using it but who knows if even that was true.
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Everyone talked about Rhesus Monkey growth hormone from Grymko to Steve Michalik. The rumor was that Robby and Platz were using it but who knows if even that was true.
What the hell?
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Everyone talked about Rhesus Monkey growth hormone from Grymko to Steve Michalik. The rumor was that Robby and Platz were using it but who knows if even that was true.
Well, whatever made platz's jaws jump out....made the suspicion even more real
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I have not heard of ape growth hormone up until now.
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Ape growth hormone doesn't work
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when I was in the military, we used it on subjects. the result...some call him yeti or bigfoot. we screwed up. it affected the brain...its one of the biggest mistakes we made. now its out...
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Growth was used from the 60s till the early 80s by taking from animals pituitary gland and injecting them … it was also called Somatotropin or Cadaver-GH … synthetic was produced in 84 by Elli Lilly … who actually stopped producing it last year I guess cause they didn’t see it feasible and it is not used in a lot of cases … Growth hormone was used by bbers in mid 80 … meaning … athletes were asking about it before it was released … and scientists were shocked how the hell they know about it and that athletes inquires were more that other scientists and doctors
The Horse growth is attached with a substance (can’t remember the name) that the body can’t recognize it and will release anti bodies to break it down … Horse growth is not Somatrem (192 amino acid sequence growth hormone) ... however the antibody case applies to Somatrem as well
I hope you gguys know that Equigen is a brand name for one of the boldenone undecylenate which is manufactured by Tornel containing 50 mg/ml
I remember oonce a guy got me a bottle of Equigen (boldenone undecylenate) and told me he bought as and thought it is growth hormone … so I told him he was scammed
I read the below case some couple of years back but bever identified what EquiGEn it was or they meant … anyway these WADA guys are not always updated … and might have though that Eguigen (boldenone undecylenate) is actually a HGH or assumed so cause they found it in the fridge.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/06/20/1087669847961.html?from=moreStories
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rHGH was first produced from E. coli in 1982, but it did not reach the market in significant quantities until the late 1980s. Prior to that, HGH was extracted from the pituitary gland of adolescent male cadavers who had died of trauma. Since it is a lot easier to grow E. coli than to find adolescent male cadavers who died of trauma, it is unlikely that any HGH on the black market has come from cadavers since 1990.
I know guys who used this cadaveric growth just a couple of years ago. I know of one pro who used it as well.
(http://i8.tinypic.com/7wfqjr5.jpg)
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Some where pushing 'rhesus monky hormone' in the 80's...it was BS
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I know guys who used this cadaveric growth just a couple of years ago. I know of one pro who used it as well.
what evidence do you have that it is from cadavers?
the cost of manufacturing it from cadavers would be so much more than what the synthetic version costs, and the risk of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (mad cow) is very real.
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what evidence do you have that it is from cadavers?
the cost of manufacturing it from cadavers would be so much more than what the synthetic version costs, and the risk of Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease (mad cow) is very real.
William Llewellyn had it analyzed IIRC. There's an article on it on bodyofscience.com.
Edit, here:
http://www.bodyofscience.com/files/counterfeit_summer2005.pdf
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I know guys who used this cadaveric growth just a couple of years ago. I know of one pro who used it as well.
(http://i8.tinypic.com/7wfqjr5.jpg)
100% BULLSHIT!
The ONLY GH in the late 70's/early 80's came from the pituitary glad of recently deceased people. It was extracted and it was used primarily for promoting growth in children who had deficient pituitary glands. The cost was tens of thopusands of dollars, NO BBER could afford it at that price-despite the claims of many from the early 80's.
In 1983 pharmaceutical firm Eli Lily developed the first synthetic GH, it was branded Humatrope, and this is what all BBers at that time were being prescribed, and even though it was synthetic, it was VERY EXPENSIVE. Bob Paris spent $2K for a 4 week supply (don't know the dosage levels though) when he won Nationals in 1984.
NO ONE today gets GH from cadaver's today, NO ONE.
http://www.humatrope.com/index.jsp
Hope this helps.
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100% BULLSHIT!
The ONLY GH in the late 70's/early 80's came from the pituitary glad of recently deceased people. It was extracted and it was used primarily for promoting growth in children who had deficient pituitary glands. The cost was tens of thopusands of dollars, NO BBER could afford it at that price-despite the claims of many from the early 80's.
In 1983 pharmaceutical firm Eli Lily developed the first synthetic GH, it was branded Humatrope, and this is what all BBers at that time were being prescribed, and even though it was synthetic, it was VERY EXPENSIVE. Bob Paris spent $2K for a 4 week supply (don't know the dosage levels though) when he won Nationals in 1984.
NO ONE today gets GH from cadaver's today, NO ONE.
http://www.humatrope.com/index.jsp
Hope this helps.
This is not American or western growth as you can see. It's also possible it was stolen before diverted to the black market. Lots of possibilities. Also, why would someone make a counterfeit cadaver growth when he knows most will not touch it. The guys I know who used it said it did work.
Did you read the article I linked?
A sample was sent in for analysis,which
contained on the vial the text “COMATOTPOHNH”,
Fa.Endokrininai”.After the isoelectrical
focussing, several intense peaks in
the pH-area of 4.6 to 5.2 showed up in the
examined sample, next to main peaks in
pH-5.2. In the older comparison substance
(BRP) made from cadaveric pituitaries, similar
secondary peaks were also observed.The
secondary peaks are to be led back probably
to the hydrolysis of asparagine-and glutamine-
side chain of the protein to the corresponding
desamido-forms. Through the
transformation of the acidamidgroups in
carbonacidgroups, the isoelectrical point of
the protein shifts itself into the sour area.Preferred
attack points for the hydrolytical dismantling
are the exposed acidamidgroups of
asparagine in position 149 and 152 of the
polypeptide-chain [32, 33].
The demand of the medicine book
monograph according to secondary peaks
with an intensity of no more than 6.25% of
the intensity of the head volumes may
appear, was therefore not fulfilled in the
analysed preparation. In the test on related
substances by means of reversed-phase
HPLC, a peak was seen in the retention time
of somatropin, but several intensive secondary
peaks with shorter retention times
also occured.The purity request of the medicine
book-monograph was not fulfilled (sum
of the peakareas of the secondary peaks
<13%) for this sample. By means of ESIMass-
spectrometry, the active agent somatropin
could be proved unambiguously by
the mass-spectrometrical detection of the
molecule ion in the expected mass at 22,125
D in the sample. The additional observed
intensive signals in 22,224 D and in 22,322
D and the altogether quite unclean measured
spectrum referred to pollution through
accompanying proteins and decomposition
products. In the analysis through SDS-Polyacrylamide
electrophorese, the sample clearly
showed numerous additional volumes next
to the head volumes in 22 kD and a. in 20 kD
and 44 kD.The model of the protein pollution
was very similar to that of the comparison
substance (BRP),made from cadaveric
pituitary material. The presence of that 20-
kD-volumes in the sample proved that it concerned
indeed a growth hormone preparation
made out of human pituitaries, not synthetic
rHGH!
This was a 2005 article. It also says:
Cadaveric Growth Hormone
Before the introduction of genetic methods
of manufacturing recombinant proteins,
human growth hormone was obtained by
extracting it from the pituitaries of corpses.
Because of the risk of the transmission of
infectious diseases such as the rare neurological
disorder Creutzfeldt-Jakob-Desease
[1 –4],and other infectious diseases such as
hepatitis B and C, growth hormone preparations
extracted from human pituitaries
were taken off the market in the European
Union in the middle of the 1980’s [17]. After
that point, only genetically produced (synthetic)
growth hormone preparations have
been legal in the E.U. Such products are
manufactured by recombinant technology.
Growth hormone preparations manufactured
with human cadaveric pituitaries are
still available on the black market in Europe.
If an athlete uses such preparations, they
need to understand that a risk of the trans-
mission of disease exists.Because the risks of
a medication aren’t always disclosed in the
underground drug scene, a slighter lower
price might be allowed to be the decisive
factor in purchasing a risky biological GH
product. Nevertheless, we urgently warn
against using such preparations.
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There would be NO reason to take GH from cadavers today;
1- The COST
It is 100's of times cheaper and easier to use synthetic-so I do not believe the claim that there is GH coming from cadavers in this day and age.
2- The risks of infectious disease
It is VERY high, so again, it would be beyond stupid to use cadaver GH today. Maybe back in the late 70's, when there was no choice, but not today.
You must remember why no one used real GH, before Humatrope. There was simply a very small supply, you could NOT get large amounts of GH because it came from DEAD PEOPLE, and the amounts you could get were very small. It would take many dead people to make a cycle (I would imagine, can't say I really know-but if you know what the pituitary glad looks like, it is very small, no bigger than a nickel).
I also have to question the part of the article that says it could tell the difference between synthetic and real GH.
Now, is it possible some moron is getting cadaver GH, I guess so- but it would be stupidity at it's finest hour.
Plus the article is basically making a hearsay, third party uninformed statement. Unless they personally knew GH was coming from cadavers, with their own eyes, I do not believe it.
It just does not make any sense given the cheap cost of synthetic GH today and the safety factor.
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also, collecting and processing cadavers is difficult. not exactly someone could do specifically for the black market. and no pharmaceutical company would do it because there is no market for it, as well as too much risk of disease.
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There would be NO reason to take GH from cadavers today;
1- The COST
It is 100's of times cheaper and easier to use synthetic-so I do not believe the claim that there is GH coming from cadavers in this day and age.
2- The risks of infectious disease
It is VERY high, so again, it would be beyond stupid to use cadaver GH today. Maybe back in the late 70's, when there was no choice, but not today.
You must remember why no one used real GH, before Humatrope. There was simply a very small supply, you could NOT get large amounts of GH because it came from DEAD PEOPLE, and the amounts you could get were very small. It would take many dead people to make a cycle (I would imagine, can't say I really know-but if you know what the pituitary glad looks like, it is very small, no bigger than a nickel).
I also have to question the part of the article that says it could tell the difference between synthetic and real GH.
Now, is it possible some moron is getting cadaver GH, I guess so- but it would be stupidity at it's finest hour.
Plus the article is basically making a hearsay, third party uninformed statement. Unless they personally knew GH was coming from cadavers, with their own eyes, I do not believe it.
It just does not make any sense given the cheap cost of synthetic GH today and the safety factor.
Do you have the educational background to say it's impossible to differentiate between cadaveric and rhGH by using the assays in the article?
The guy who wrote the article works for William Llewellyn (author of the 'Anabolics' books).
I don't know how much the production costs would differ nowadays. Do you really know it's "100 times cheaper" to produce the rhGH?
Most bodybuilders do not pay the pharmacy prices for growth. Chinese growth, stolen growth, growth bought from HIV+ patients, etc, is what most use. It's still very expensive from legitimate channels.
BTW, does anyone know if hCG has resulted in transmission of any diseases?
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Do you have the educational background to say it's impossible to differentiate between cadaveric and rhGH by using the assays in the article?
The guy who wrote the article works for William Llewellyn (author of the 'Anabolics' books).
I don't know how much the production costs would differ nowadays. Do you really know it's "100 times cheaper" to produce the rhGH?
Most bodybuilders do not pay the pharmacy prices for growth. Chinese growth, stolen growth, growth bought from HIV+ patients, etc, is what most use. It's still very expensive from legitimate channels.
BTW, does anyone know if hCG has resulted in transmission of any diseases?
If the guy is involved with some steroid guru who writes books, that right there is all you need to know they don't know what they are talking about.
As to synthetic GH being 100's of times cheaper, that may be off, it is more likely thousands of times cheaper. Seriously. Getting real GH is not as easy as making fake steroids, you need to have a supply of dead people, were is that going to come from??? Not happening.
Chinese and other GH sources are, from what I have heard, highly suspect and some down right useless. I have no first hand information, since I have never used any GH-ever.
When a person dies bacteria sets in immediatley, and the body starts to deompose and break down, even if it is frozen, so of course there is a high chance of infection. I would never use real cadaver GH-even of it were free.
So, I don't know what to tell you, except that I do not believe the person who wrote the article.
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also, collecting and processing cadavers is difficult. not exactly someone could do specifically for the black market. and no pharmaceutical company would do it because there is no market for it, as well as too much risk of disease.
One would think so.....
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If the guy is involved with some steroid guru who writes books, that right there is all you need to know they don't know what they are talking about.
Take a look at this article in Lancet. This should qualify as fairly reliable, no?
Self-administration of cadaveric growth hormone in power athletes
Letters to the Editor
The Lancet Vol 341(8847) Mar 20, 1993 pp768-769
Deyssig, Roman; Frisch, Herwig
Department of Endocrinology, University Children's Clinic, 1090 Wien, Austria
Sir,
With the association between use of pituitary-derived growth hormone and Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, keeping patients informed without causing unnecessary alarm can be difficult. Knowing about the potential hazard by the use of cadaveric growth hormone, we report risky use of this type of growth hormone for non-medical purposes and without a specialist's prescription by some power athletes, often in combination with androgenic-anabolic steroids, to increase muscle strength and reduce fat mass.
The cadaveric growth hormone is available on the black market and is about half the price of recombinant growth hormone. The source of the cadaveric growth hormone is the former Soviet Union where pituitary-derived growth hormone is still produced. We presume that this group of growth hormone recipients is not adequately informed about the potential risk for Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease and the possible risk of transmission by tissue or organ donation.
We had the opportunity to analyse a growth hormone ampoule from the former Soviet Union. The specific activity was low (about 2 U/mg protein) and on sodium dodecylsulphate gel-electrophoresis was not pure monomeric, which jeopardises the quality of this hormone. It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.
Because this type of growth hormone is used in other countries, (anecdotally we know of use by weight lifters and body builders in Germany, Poland, Italy, and Austria), more information should be given to potential users.
[PMID: 8095679]
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I don't know how much the production costs would differ nowadays. Do you really know it's "100 times cheaper" to produce the rhGH?
let's see: collect and dissect dozens of cadavers, extract and process their pituitary gland for a few hundred mg of HGH; or grow E Coli in a vat.
BTW, does anyone know if hCG has resulted in transmission of any diseases?
pee is rather sterile.
there have been suspected cases of Hep-B transmission, but it was determined that the jet-injector was the cause: http://www.cdc.gov/mmwR/preview/mmwrhtml/00000744.htm
We had the opportunity to analyse a growth hormone ampoule from the former Soviet Union. The specific activity was low (about 2 U/mg protein) and on sodium dodecylsulphate gel-electrophoresis was not pure monomeric, which jeopardises the quality of this hormone. It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.
ok, so it's half the price, but contains very little active or usable HGH, and no precautions were taken to filter out prions or other disease causing agents.
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I didn't realize we had so many doctors/chemists here!!
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YES THIS POOR BLACK GAY STREET THUG WITH AIDS SELLS IT ON HIS WEBSITE, SO I'VE BEEN TOLD.
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You do know that Lancet letter is 15 years old don't you.....
Again, it is written by a person who treats children for a deficient GH production, and he may have second hand info on GH. Don't know what to say, except I would not put much faith in it.
It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.
Here the writer hits the nail on the head;
(anecdotally we know of use by weight lifters and body builders in Germany, Poland, Italy, and Austria),
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You do know that Lancet letter is 15 years old don't you.....
Again, it is written by a person who treats children for a deficient GH production, and he may have second hand info on GH. Don't know what to say, except I would not put much faith in it.
It appears unlikely that suitable precautions were taken to eliminate contamination.
Here the writer hits the nail on the head;
(anecdotally we know of use by weight lifters and body builders in Germany, Poland, Italy, and Austria),
Yes it's 15 years old but you said cadaveric growth was only available in the late 80s- early 90s. And now only rhGH is available and it's much cheaper, which the letter disputes. Like I said, I have seen this particular product with my own eyes only a few years ago.
The article said that anecdotally it was used by bodybuilders in those countries, it didn't say it was only "anecdotally available" as they analyzed an ampule of it.
Anyone read German? Is this pretty much the same article I linked earlier?
http://www.loegd.nrw.de/1pdf_dokumente/3_arzneimittel/illegale-somatropinpr%E4parate-DAZ-45-2002.pdf
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let's see: collect and dissect dozens of cadavers, extract and process their pituitary gland for a few hundred mg of HGH; or grow E Coli in a vat.
I don't know which is cheaper to manufacture. The technology to set up a lab that can manufacture rhGH is extremely expensive I'm sure. The Lancet article said cadaveric was half the price of rhGH though.
Based on what I posted do you think cadaveric GH is still on the black market, or was a few years ago at least?
I remember gh15 posting about some American athletes using cadaveric growth still. Can't find the post though.
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Yes it's 15 years old but you said cadaveric growth was only available in the late 80s- early 90s.
um, do the math. the article was published in 1993, talking about the recent past. that would be late 80s and early 90s.
I don't know which is cheaper to manufacture. The technology to set up a lab that can manufacture rhGH is extremely expensive I'm sure.
sure its expensive to set up a proper lab, but then you can make huge vats of it over and over again
The Lancet article said cadaveric was half the price of rhGH though.
no, it said that this poorly manufactured bio-inactive stuff that was not pure and likely full of prions which can cause CJD, was selling for half the price.
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um, do the math. the article was published in 1993, talking about the recent past. that would be late 80s and early 90s.
OK. I don't see what your point is though. I guess what you're saying is that this stuff is absolutely positively not manufactured anywhere in the world anymore? And hasn't been since the early 90s? This is my only argument here, that it seems it has found its way into bodybuilders hands even in the recent years.
The German article I linked was from 2002.
http://www.loegd.nrw.de/1pdf_dokumente/3_arzneimittel/illegale-somatropinpr%E4parate-DAZ-45-2002.pdf
I don't see why the doctors doing the study would have lied about the results. It was right around 2002 that I saw this specific product.
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This is my only argument here, that it seems it has found its way into bodybuilders hands even in the recent years.
in the 70s and 80s it took massive coordination to collect and process enough cadavers to supply a few thousand kids with GH. it cost tens of thousands of dollars per kid, and the doses were trivial compared to what bodybuilders take today. today there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people taking GH.
today there is no coordinated effort to collect the bodies of adolescent males who have died of trauma, not even in Russia. and there is no reason to believe that it would be any cheaper to harvest and produce today than it was 30 years ago.
and we know now that the risk of CJD is very real in cadaver produced GH. No reputable company, not even in Russia, would take on that liability when a much safer product is available.
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There would have to plenty of adolescent males who die of trauma. How much iu equivliancy would an average adolescent male dying of trauma provide?
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in the 70s and 80s it took massive coordination to collect and process enough cadavers to supply a few thousand kids with GH. it cost tens of thousands of dollars per kid, and the doses were trivial compared to what bodybuilders take today. today there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of people taking GH.
today there is no coordinated effort to collect the bodies of adolescent males who have died of trauma, not even in Russia. and there is no reason to believe that it would be any cheaper to harvest and produce today than it was 30 years ago.
and we know now that the risk of CJD is very real in cadaver produced GH. No reputable company, not even in Russia, would take on that liability when a much safer product is available.
Exactly.
There would have to plenty of adolescent males who die of trauma. How much iu equivliancy would an average adolescent male dying of trauma provide?
I have no idea. but not very much considering the size of the "master gland", which is puny.
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bump for gh15
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Think of the late Lyle Alzado of LA Raiders when you think HGH off a dead cadaver.
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Think of the late Lyle Alzado of LA Raiders when you think HGH off a dead cadaver.
he wasn't an adolescent. he didn't die of trauma.
think of kids dying in auto accidents. think of soldiers dying in war
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Think of the late Lyle Alzado of LA Raiders when you think HGH off a dead cadaver.
No, think AIDS when you think of Alzado (I assume you are linking GH to his death).
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No, think AIDS when you think of Alzado (I assume you are linking GH to his death).
AIDS is the winning answer.
But he was a strong mother fucker for a fat piece of shit.
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No, think AIDS when you think of Alzado (I assume you are linking GH to his death).
Yup was thinking GH to his death.Read it in some mag or paper clipping but Aids? ???
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Yup was thinking GH to his death.Read it in some mag or paper clipping but Aids? ???
Lyle Alzado died in 1992. GH was just beginning to become popular.
Alzado claimed that his 'brain tumor' was due to steroid abuse. but he told that story because he didn't want people to know that he had HIV. he didn't even have a brain tumor, he had a specific kind of lymphoma, the type that is an opportunistic infection for people with compromised immune systems. Today 99% of such cases of this disease are AIDS related. In fact, it is one of the few opportunistic infections that is still a problem 25 years into the epidemic.
After he died, his doctor, a lymphoma specialist at City of Hope, confirmed in the LA Times that steroids had nothing to do with his disease or his death.