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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Benny B on March 19, 2008, 05:41:36 PM
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"Here are the core elements of my strategy to address our critical national security challenges in the 21st century:
End the war in Iraq, removing our troops at a pace of 1 to 2 combat brigades per month;
Finally finish the fight against the Taliban, root out al Qaeda and invest in the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan, while making aid to the Pakistani government conditional;
Act aggressively to stop nuclear proliferation and to secure all loose nuclear materials around the world;
Double our foreign assistance to cut extreme poverty in half;
Invest in a clean energy future to wean the U.S. off of foreign oil and to lead the world against the threat of global climate change;
Rebuild our military capability by increasing the number of soldiers, marines, and special forces troops, and insist on adequate training and time off between deployments;
Renew American diplomacy by talking to our adversaries as well as our friends; increasing the size of the Foreign Service and the Peace Corps; and creating an America's Voice Corps."
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Basically he's saying he's gonna shuffle troops around. Whoopie.
We need to bring ALL the troops back home.
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Basically he's saying he's gonna shuffle troops around. Whoopie.
We need to bring ALL the troops back home.
and give up the oil contracts being given to US firms?
Wouldnt be wise to walk away from all that.
I think the war is a mess, but I surely wouldn't want Chinese companies coming in and getting oil in Euros instead of our companies doing it in dollars. Do you?
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Basically he's saying he's gonna shuffle troops around. Whoopie.
We need to bring ALL the troops back home.
I guess english isn't your first language, because you cannot read. There are ESL courses all over the world that may help you. ;)
Obama has stated repeatedly that we must be as careful getting out as we were careless going in.
Bindare, your boy Ron Paul is finished, so it is time for you to get on board the Obama Express or sit at home on election day and cry in your Corn Flakes. ;D
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Without going into why AQ is in Iraq I think we all can agree NOW that they ARE there.
Having said that how does Obama plan on "rooting out" AQ and not being in Iraq?
Just seems contradictory to me.
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and give up the oil contracts being given to US firms?
Wouldnt be wise to walk away from all that.
I think the war is a mess, but I surely wouldn't want Chinese companies coming in and getting oil in Euros instead of our companies doing it in dollars. Do you?
Yeah all that money from the oil is making me rich! ::)
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Yeah all that money from the oil is making me rich! ::)
Actually a lot of Americans do have ownership in petroleum companies. Where have YOU been?!?! ;D
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I guess english isn't your first language, because you cannot read. There are ESL courses all over the world that may help you. ;)
Obama has stated repeatedly that we must be as careful getting out as we were careless going in.
Bindare, your boy Ron Paul is finished, so it is time for you to get on board the Obama Express or sit at home on election day and cry in your Corn Flakes. ;D
You're clueless. The Ron PAul message is alive and well and there are more people involved in politics with Rons point of view than ever before. So while you're out there sucking Obama cock, we're going to county conventions and passing resolutions. WE're making a difference through our actions while your infatuated with fluffy speeches and trying to be a samrt ass on the internets. Im really moody tonight. >:(
La times:
Apparently cadres of Paulistas read the Missouri Republican rule book and burrowed into the party structure from the inside this weekend -- at the county caucus meetings.
Usually attended only by party apparatchiks, the caucuses help set the official party platform and deal with internal rules issues. The kind of stuff most folks ignore. Not the Paulistas, who swarmed meetings in St. Louis, Kansas City, Springfield and some rural counties and, as the St. Louis Post-Dispatch put it, "snagged roughly a third of the 2,137 state Republican delegates."
All of which would be yawn-inducing except that "those delegates will determine the state GOP platform this spring and help select the presidential delegates to the national Republican presidential convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul in September."
Also in the weekend caucuses, the Paulistas "won approval for some of their man's key positions, including resolutions for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, and against the federal Patriot Act and warrantless wiretaps."
The biggest hit: A resolution to be taken up at the state party meeting in the spring to repeal the rule that all of Missouri's 58 delegates go to the winner, John McCain. "We're not holding out an illusion that Ron is going to win the nomination," said Debbie Hopper, Paul's national field director. "This is about calling the Republican Party back to its roots."
Some of the party regulars tried to call foul, saying that many of the Paulistas were Democrats, Libertarians or others ineligible to participate. But St. Louis city Republican chair Judy Zakibe gave credit where it was due. "Our people didn't come out," Zakibe said. "That's what cost us." (This is how we will make changes, through other peoples laziness)
It's like the lottery ads say -- you gotta play to win. And the Paulistas played.
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Actually a lot of Americans do have ownership in petroleum companies. Where have YOU been?!?! ;D
How's it been for you?
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Without going into why AQ is in Iraq I think we all can agree NOW that they ARE there.
Having said that how does Obama plan on "rooting out" AQ and not being in Iraq?
Just seems contradictory to me.
AQ is not the nominate michief maker in Iraq...it is the Shiites, whom are going into Iraq from Iran to maintain and supply the insurgency. AQ's main purpose in Iraq is to create mayhem due to the American precence there. Once we are primarily gone, AQ will have little use to remain in the country. Iraqi forces can deal with getting them out at that point...its their country and its their job to police it. Iraqis have been doing a pretty good job of killing AQ members in certain regions. They just need to learn to be self reliant. We can't babysit them with $12billionUSD/month forever. The polls show most Iraqis want the US O-U-T, so we should honor their wishes and only give assistance on the diplomatic front as we slowly wind down our troop levels.
Remember, AQ's base of operations has always been Afghanistan. Thanks to our negecting of that country with so few troops, they are pretty strong there. That's were Obama proposes our troops be concentrated and that if some slip over in to Pakistan we chase their asses over their too.
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AQ is not the nominate michief maker in Iraq...it is the Shiites, whom are going into Iraq from Iran to maintain and supply the insurgency. AQ's main purpose in Iraq is to create mayhem due to the American precence there. Once we are primarily gone, AQ will have little use to remain in the country. Iraqi forces can deal with getting them out at that point...its their country and its their job to police it. Iraqis have been doing a pretty good job of killing AQ members in certain regions. They just need to learn to be self reliant. We can't babysit them with $12billionUSD/month forever. The polls show most Iraqis want the US O-U-T, so we should honor their wishes and only give assistance on the diplomatic front as we slowly wind down our troop levels.
Remember, AQ's base of operations has always been Afghanistan. Thanks to our negecting of that country with so few troops, they are pretty strong there. That's were Obama proposes our troops be concentrated and that if some slip over in to Pakistan we chase their asses over their too.
I thought it was the Taliban in Afghanistan.
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You're clueless. The Ron PAul message is alive and well and there are more people involved in politics with Rons point of view than ever before. So while you're out there sucking Obama cock, we're going to county conventions and passing resolutions. WE're making a difference through our actions while your infatuated with fluffy speeches and trying to be a samrt ass on the internets. Im really moody tonight. >:(
La times:
Apparently cadres of Paulistas read the Missouri Republican rule book and burrowed into the party structure from the inside this weekend -- at the county caucus meetings.
Usually attended only by party apparatchiks, the caucuses help set the official party platform and deal with internal rules issues. The kind of stuff most folks ignore. Not the Paulistas, who swarmed meetings in St. Louis, Kansas City, Springfield and some rural counties and, as the St. Louis Post-Dispatch put it, "snagged roughly a third of the 2,137 state Republican delegates."
All of which would be yawn-inducing except that "those delegates will determine the state GOP platform this spring and help select the presidential delegates to the national Republican presidential convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul in September."
Also in the weekend caucuses, the Paulistas "won approval for some of their man's key positions, including resolutions for withdrawing U.S. troops from Iraq and Afghanistan, and against the federal Patriot Act and warrantless wiretaps."
The biggest hit: A resolution to be taken up at the state party meeting in the spring to repeal the rule that all of Missouri's 58 delegates go to the winner, John McCain. "We're not holding out an illusion that Ron is going to win the nomination," said Debbie Hopper, Paul's national field director. "This is about calling the Republican Party back to its roots."
Some of the party regulars tried to call foul, saying that many of the Paulistas were Democrats, Libertarians or others ineligible to participate. But St. Louis city Republican chair Judy Zakibe gave credit where it was due. "Our people didn't come out," Zakibe said. "That's what cost us." (This is how we will make changes, through other peoples laziness)
It's like the lottery ads say -- you gotta play to win. And the Paulistas played.
You moody tonight? That's ok sweetie...that's a female trait, you know. Does not suprise me that you would display such symtoms. :-\
I'm not sure how you have come to the conclusion that your hero Ron Paul has the majority point of view...were that the case, why did he win a total of about 14 delegates? Did Mr. Paul win a single state? Your argument doesn't hold up to fact: Obama has one more states, has more popular votes, and in some states received more votes single-handedly than the ENTIRE Republican field of candidates. Did you take your Midol, Bindare? When you ladies get moody sometimes Midol aids in the cramping and headaches that accompany those female mood swings.
I have no comment on the matter of "sucking cock" other than given your feminine mind state that perhaps these are the subconcious desires coming to the surface. Maybe you have a male escort in your area that can satisfy your urges? I'm sorry I cannot be of further help as that is not my field of interest nor expertise.
So the "Paulistas" are trying to shape the McCain agenda at this stage. Good luck with that. McCain will entertain those grass roots efforts, but with no guarantee he'll follow through. If it is Obama in the Oval Office, you and Mr. Paul can kiss all your wacky Liberatarian ideas bye-bye. ;)
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I thought it was the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Wow, seven years after 9/11 and you STILL don't understand this? No wonder Bush was able to bamboozle so many clueless nitwits in America. Honestly...I am too tired to go into detail about all this...maybe you need to read an article on Afghanistan circa 2000?
In a quick nutshell, the Taliban supported AQ and allowed them to run their terror bases there. The Taliban was the quasi gov't at the time, and were pretty corrupt and oppressive. Since Bin Ladin had money and would occupy bases in remote areas, the Taliban and AQ got along fine. These are the bases where the hijackers from 9/11 were funded and trained to come to the U.S. The 9/11 attackers were primarily Saudi and Egyptian...OUR ALLIES. It all came out of Afghanistan. The war in Iraq was a complete diversion that Dubya mixed in with 9/11 in order to lie to the American people and hoodwink Americans into believing that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 and was an immediate threat to the American people. Chaney, Dubya, and Rumsfeld had a massive hard-on for Saddam. So that's how it began...we made a half-assed effort into capturing bin Laden in Afghanistan and destroying the bases, but the majority of troops have been in Iraq for the last five years trying to clean up a country who's infrastructure we completely destroyed and now occupy.
As we have taken our eye off of Afghanistan, AQ has reconstituted there along with the Taliban. They are growing opium at pre-war levels great enough to be the world's largest supplier of opium.
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taleban was our ally until July 2001.
they decided to sign with an argentinan oil firm instead of a US firm.
we offered them a 'carpet of gold, or a carpet of bombs' and gave them $43M. Google it!
They took the $ and told us to fcuk off. So we told our allies we were taking that bitch over in mid-october. which we promptly did. We warned UK and india in summer of 2001. BBC reported it.
so yeah, fuck them. They burned us and we fired back. end of story.
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taleban was our ally until July 2001.
they decided to sign with an argentinan oil firm instead of a US firm.
we offered them a 'carpet of gold, or a carpet of bombs' and gave them $43M. Google it!
They took the $ and told us to fcuk off. So we told our allies we were taking that bitch over in mid-october. which we promptly did. We warned UK and india in summer of 2001. BBC reported it.
so yeah, fuck them. They burned us and we fired back. end of story.
The Taliban wasn't nearly as important as destroying the AQ bases. If you recall, the Taliban leader was making all kinds of cocky threat on what they would do to the U.S. should we invade, because the Taliban an AQ were inexorably entwined. That's what Afghanistan was all about for the U.S. post 9/11, and I was ALL FOR that war. It when Iraq started to seriously enter the conversation as this HUGE threat in 2002, that I knew we had a crazy neo-con administration that was about to pull a massive con job on the American people.
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The Taliban wasn't nearly as important as destroying the AQ bases. If you recall, the Taliban leader was making all kinds of cocky threat on what they would do to the U.S. should we invade, because the Taliban an AQ were inexorably entwined. That's what Afghanistan was all about for the U.S. post 9/11, and I was ALL FOR that war. It when Iraq started to seriously enter the conversation as this HUGE threat in 2002, that I knew we had a crazy neo-con administration that was about to pull a massive con job on the American people.
The Taleban offerred to deliver Osama's dead body to NYC in a pine box, or deliver him alive if we wished. They promised coordinates to all Al-Q leadership too, so we could capture or kill them.
We passed on their offer, and decided to set up a war instead.
Critics said it's because we wanted to put in the oil pipeline we had failed to get in negotiations with the Taleban, which, shocking, is coming together now with US firms.
Oh the drama!
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The Taleban offerred to deliver Osama's dead body to NYC in a pine box, or deliver him alive if we wished. They promised coordinates to all Al-Q leadership too, so we could capture or kill them.
We passed on their offer, and decided to set up a war instead.
Critics said it's because we wanted to put in the oil pipeline we had failed to get in negotiations with the Taleban, which, shocking, is coming together now with US firms.
Oh the drama!
Uhhh...that's smells a bit like revisionist history. I'll have to dip into the archives about that since my memory has become shaky. I KNOW the Taliban leader hid with Osama before the invsion...I can't remember his name. But I don't believe he was ever captured. Ahhh...Mullah Omar, I beleive! I think he's still at large, and I doubt seriously he ever offered up bin Laden. They were/are too close.
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Uhhh...that's smells a bit like revisionist history. I'll have to dip into the archives about that since my memory has become shaky. I KNOW the Taliban leader hid with Osama before the invsion...I can't remember his name. But I don't believe he was ever captured. Ahhh...Mullah Omar, I beleive! I think he's still at large, and I doubt seriously he ever offered up bin Laden. They were/are too close.
they immediately said they'd kill him for us, if we'd provide any proof osama was involved.
condi went on meet the press and said that evidence would be released in a 'white paper' shortly.
It's 6 years later, we've never seen it, and the FBI doesn't even have Osama wanted for 9/11.
You can google it - they said we could have him dead with proof, or deliver him to the hauge for world trial with no evidence. no thanks.
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Wow, seven years after 9/11 and you STILL don't understand this? No wonder Bush was able to bamboozle so many clueless nitwits in America. Honestly...I am too tired to go into detail about all this...maybe you need to read an article on Afghanistan circa 2000?
In a quick nutshell, the Taliban supported AQ and allowed them to run their terror bases there. The Taliban was the quasi gov't at the time, and were pretty corrupt and oppressive. Since Bin Ladin had money and would occupy bases in remote areas, the Taliban and AQ got along fine. These are the bases where the hijackers from 9/11 were funded and trained to come to the U.S. The 9/11 attackers were primarily Saudi and Egyptian...OUR ALLIES. It all came out of Afghanistan. The war in Iraq was a complete diversion that Dubya mixed in with 9/11 in order to lie to the American people and hoodwink Americans into believing that Saddam was responsible for 9/11 and was an immediate threat to the American people. Chaney, Dubya, and Rumsfeld had a massive hard-on for Saddam. So that's how it began...we made a half-assed effort into capturing bin Laden in Afghanistan and destroying the bases, but the majority of troops have been in Iraq for the last five years trying to clean up a country who's infrastructure we completely destroyed and now occupy.
As we have taken our eye off of Afghanistan, AQ has reconstituted there along with the Taliban. They are growing opium at pre-war levels great enough to be the world's largest supplier of opium.
Were your balls in a knot when you typed this in response to my one liner?
Thanks for the information Michael Ware. ::)
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Back to the original topic...we can't pull 2 Brigades out per month...pulling out in less then 2 years may be impossible. His plan is ridiculous. Plus he's mentioned that he'd go back in if things become a mess. How? Things will be a mess if we pull out. Not to mention the moral of the Services, the way that will embolden our enemies etc. His plan is no plan and he knows it. He won't pull out and the Libs will crucify him for it.
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no one is going to pull out 2 brigades per month.
All 3 candidates will get the job, and turn it over to the generals. They'll pull out two brigades on day 1 to get the reputation of "we'd bringing our boys home!" then take 4 years to get 60% of the men home.
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Obama said within 60 days as did Hil. I don't believ them and nobody else should either. First off...there is a rotation schedual that can't be altered. So whoever is schedualed to come home near the beginning of the year will have known about that date since they rotated in. U just can't pack up and leave. Hell Bush is bringing units home now.....
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they've both backed off those statements and clarified that the troops on bases/oil will be there all thru their terms. Just like Mccain went far RIGHT to get nominated, the dem candidates went far LEFT to get states. All 3 have come center since then - they're all dishonest in that aspect.
all 3 candidates have been saying that iraqi combat troops will be taking over the dirty stuff, and that our men on the bases will be staying put.
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Obama said yesterday that within 60 days he'll bring the "troops home". Obama has said he'll leave some to defend the bases and hunt AQI. This is ridiculous. It takes 100 logistics folks to back 1 trigger puller. His postions are dishonest. As is Hil's there will be no change as the Libs expect.
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Were your balls in a knot when you typed this in response to my one liner?
Thanks for the information Michael Ware. ::)
idiot
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idiot
What do you think of Obama's support to keep funding a war he said he didn't vote for?
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What do you think of Obama's support to keep funding a war he said he didn't vote for?
I don't agree with it. I do believe that if the political will was there from the top (ie. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid), then Obama and all the other democratic senators would follow suit. But the decision makers at the top made the decision that the party would not go that route. It appears the strategy was that they did not want that stance to backfire on them come this year's presidential election.
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Obama said yesterday that within 60 days he'll bring the "troops home". Obama has said he'll leave some to defend the bases and hunt AQI. This is ridiculous. It takes 100 logistics folks to back 1 trigger puller. His postions are dishonest. As is Hil's there will be no change as the Libs expect.
240s post right above this one answered this statement. Hill and Obama went far left to get some states and will go back to center when reality hits. Their lying just like all politicians do.
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yeah, they're all going to let the generals do the thinking and stay out of the way.
they just had to go far right and left to win votes. happens every election. mccain shouts about boming iran, 100 years of war, to get the far right people, then he's all about "letting the generals decide" once he gets the nod.
The dems still have to pander to their base. So they are still on the 60-day crap. Watch what happens once obama seals the nomination. he'll be all about "letting the generals dicate the safest way to get everyone home", a 20-year plan lol...
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yeah, they're all going to let the generals do the thinking and stay out of the way.
they just had to go far right and left to win votes. happens every election. mccain shouts about boming iran, 100 years of war, to get the far right people, then he's all about "letting the generals decide" once he gets the nod.
The dems still have to pander to their base. So they are still on the 60-day crap. Watch what happens once obama seals the nomination. he'll be all about "letting the generals dicate the safest way to get everyone home", a 20-year plan lol...
It ain't gonna be a 20 year plan under Obama, buddy. No way. The withdrawal may be slower than we against this war hope for, but there will be massive troop reductions in the first year of an Obama administration.
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honestly, it doesn't really affect us much. as much as we complain about the war, we don't know 2% of the info that the people on the ground know. it's their call to make.
it's a volunteer army. it's not a voluntary pay system, that part bugs me (we're funding it with our social security money), but what can you do?
Each of the candidates will bring a lot of folks home and leave a longterm group. it'll never affect us, so why stress it at all, to be honest?
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honestly, it doesn't really affect us much. as much as we complain about the war, we don't know 2% of the info that the people on the ground know. it's their call to make.
it's a volunteer army. it's not a voluntary pay system, that part bugs me (we're funding it with our social security money), but what can you do?
Each of the candidates will bring a lot of folks home and leave a longterm group. it'll never affect us, so why stress it at all, to be honest?
Oh, 12 billion USD per month affects us A LOT buddy. That's coming out of your pocket...if not today, then in the future when we finally start dealing with the deficit Bush created. Right now we're pretty much spending China's money to fight our bogus war. Soon, they will want to collect.
I don't give a FUCK what's going on on the ground in Iraq. It is time for the Iraqis to handle their own shit. It is bad enough that we invaded the country in the first place, but to sit there as an occupying force for decades? No way...time to get the fuck out. There will only be peace through political reconciliation anyway. There is no "winning" military solution to the current state of Iraq.
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Back to the original topic...we can't pull 2 Brigades out per month...pulling out in less then 2 years may be impossible. His plan is ridiculous. Plus he's mentioned that he'd go back in if things become a mess. How? Things will be a mess if we pull out. Not to mention the moral of the Services, the way that will embolden our enemies etc. His plan is no plan and he knows it. He won't pull out and the Libs will crucify him for it.
Tell me about it. I wonder if he has spoken to the Joint Chiefs about this "plan"? ::)
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"Double our foreign assistance to cut extreme poverty in half"
Seems like Obama's answer to most issues...double spending for (insert issue). I'm not kidding. Look at his website under issues. I have no idea where he is going to come up with all this $.
What is Obama talking about here? Doubling foreign assistance sounds like a horrible idea with the economic state of our union.
Its about time we stop policing everyone else and worry about our citizens and our nation first. When we are in good financial state and a balanced budget, then we can concern ourselves with fighting global poverty and helping out other nations again. Right now, we are not being viewed as an economic superpower anymore.
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He's already promised to raise taxes to pay for socialized healthcare.
Have no idea where he thinks he'll get the money to fund the rest of his initiatives.
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I'd suspend all foreign aid until we can see where the cash is going...Africa..waste of money...saudi Arabia waste of money. If u thought Bush was bad...Obama's plan will completely bleed us dry.
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Benny often has a different take on things than I but on this one, I agree...we need to start troop withdrawls ASAP and stop spending so much damn $ over there. Involve the UN, as they offered years ago. Leave a large base, continue to train Iraqi troops and engage in more diplomacy.
I assume some of the reasons for going there had some monetary incentive but I can't see how any of it has benefitted us as a nation or our citizens. I know we want to prevent oil from being on the euro standard, but I see no other benefits.
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Benny often has a different take on things than I but on this one, I agree...we need to start troop withdrawls ASAP and stop spending so much damn $ over there. Involve the UN, as they offered years ago. Leave a large base, continue to train Iraqi troops and engage in more diplomacy.
I assume some of the reasons for going there had some monetary incentive but I can't see how any of it has benefitted us as a nation or our citizens. I know we want to prevent oil from being on the euro standard, but I see no other benefits.
Amen to that.
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I'd suspend all foreign aid until we can see where the cash is going...Africa..waste of money...saudi Arabia waste of money. If u thought Bush was bad...Obama's plan will completely bleed us dry.
Nice crystal ball there. You might want to clean it up for a better picture.
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The current debt, I figure, is mainly because of the drain of this 5 yr war!
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"Double our foreign assistance to cut extreme poverty in half"
Seems like Obama's answer to most issues...double spending for (insert issue). I'm not kidding. Look at his website under issues. I have no idea where he is going to come up with all this $.
What is Obama talking about here? Doubling foreign assistance sounds like a horrible idea with the economic state of our union.
Its about time we stop policing everyone else and worry about our citizens and our nation first. When we are in good financial state and a balanced budget, then we can concern ourselves with fighting global poverty and helping out other nations again. Right now, we are not being viewed as an economic superpower anymore.
His supporters say, "He'll stop the war in Iraq, that's where he'll find the money." But then Obama says he's gonna clean Al qaeda out of Afghanistan and possibly Pakistan, does he plan on doing this for free?
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I'd suspend all foreign aid until we can see where the cash is going...Africa..waste of money...saudi Arabia waste of money. If u thought Bush was bad...Obama's plan will completely bleed us dry.
racist idiot