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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: peroni on March 20, 2008, 06:36:22 AM
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I'm always interested in hearing other people's opinion, so long as it's an intelligent one, of course. I have a female client who's stuck in the 180's. She's a large frame person who's dropped roughly 70 pounds so far. She's also 5'9 so 130 lbs is not the goal. We're looking to get around 165 ish. Here's a diet I gave her
1) 1/3 - 1/2 cup oats w/ protein powder sprinkled on top
2) 2 yogurts (low sugar) or pc fruit and handful of raw unsalted almonds or protein shake (30 grams and low fat... @ 350 calories)
3) salad w/ grilled fish or chicken or turkey sand, handful of raw veggies instead of chips
4) same as 2
5) lean meat chicken or fish (3-4 ounces) with large side of broc or asparagus, small side of complex carbs
add salad if none at lunch
6) same as # 2 or 4
water intake is 8-10 glass' daily and she supplements with flax oil ( no caffeine in diet to thwart the inner body conversion necessary to uptake the omegas)
assume the exercise is in order and feel free to offer suggestions.
Thanks
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Hey guys. I enjoy hearing/reading other people's opinions (so long as they're intelligent and educated) so I thought I'd throw this one out there.
I have a client who's down from 260 to @ 185 now. She's 48 years old, 5'9 and a endomorph with a slight bit of meso thrown in. The exercise is in place. She drinks enough water and supplements with flax oil for the hdl benefits as well as the slight metabolism boost. (She doesn't consume caffeine so there's nothing thwarting the inner body conversion of the flax)
Here's her diet
1) 1/3 -1/2 cup oatmeal or 2 eggs with ezekiel toast
2) yogurt (low sugar) or cottage cheese or pc fruit and handful of raw unsalted almonds
3) turkey sandwich or salad w/ grilled chicken or fish
4) same as # 2
5) 3-5 ounces of lean meat or chicken or fish. small side of comlex carbs and large side of broc or asparagus
6) same as #2
Thoughts/suggestions?
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Hey guys. I enjoy hearing/reading other people's opinions (so long as they're intelligent and educated) so I thought I'd throw this one out there.
I have a client who's down from 260 to @ 185 now. She's 48 years old, 5'9 and a endomorph with a slight bit of meso thrown in. The exercise is in place. She drinks enough water and supplements with flax oil for the hdl benefits as well as the slight metabolism boost. (She doesn't consume caffeine so there's nothing thwarting the inner body conversion of the flax)
Here's her diet
1) 1/3 -1/2 cup oatmeal or 2 eggs with ezekiel toast
2) yogurt (low sugar) or cottage cheese or pc fruit and handful of raw unsalted almonds
3) turkey sandwich or salad w/ grilled chicken or fish
4) same as # 2
5) 3-5 ounces of lean meat or chicken or fish. small side of comlex carbs and large side of broc or asparagus
6) same as #2
Thoughts/suggestions?
Get her off those carbs...just meat, fish, eggs and green veggies...broccoli, etc...that's it for carbs....and a zero carb whey isolate would help too...just my opinion...
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Get her off those carbs...just meat, fish, eggs and green veggies...broccoli, etc...that's it for carbs....and a zero carb whey isolate would help too...just my opinion...
Too harsh, she'll not be able to hack it mentally. On top of that she will rebound like crazy when she comes off the diet.
Looks like she's already lost a lot of weight so stick with that, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
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Get her off those carbs...just meat, fish, eggs and green veggies...broccoli, etc...that's it for carbs....and a zero carb whey isolate would help too...just my opinion...
Your body is very dependent upon carbs and complex are the most efficient and healthy so I can't cut those out.
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what made her fat in the first place maybe she got issues
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Your body is very dependent upon carbs and complex are the most efficient and healthy so I can't cut those out.
Your body is NOT dependent on carbs. Maybe she lacks the willpower...but you don't NEED carbs....carbs are as a general rule counter productive to weight loss since they force the pancreas to continuously pump out insulin which helps stores macronutrients (including fat) and it is an antagonist hormone of glucagon which releases fat. Never mind that you cannot have high HGH secretion simultaneously with high insulin secretion naturally; they too are antagonist hormones...
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Your body is NOT dependent on carbs. Maybe she lacks the willpower...but you don't NEED carbs....carbs are as a general rule counter productive to weight loss since they force the pancreas to continuously pump out insulin which helps stores macronutrients (including fat) and it is an antagonist hormone of glucagon which releases fat. Never mind that you cannot have high HGH secretion simultaneously with high insulin secretion naturally; they too are antagonist hormones...
No offense, but you might want to read up a little more. I don't want to get off subject, but your body very much needs carbs. They fill numerous roles in living things, such as the storage and transport of energy (starch, glycogen) and structural components (chitin). Additionally, carbohydrates and their derivatives play major roles in the working process of the immune system, fertilization, pathogenesis, blood clotting, and development. To cut them out would be very unhealthy and unwise.
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what made her fat in the first place maybe she got issues
Good point. She used to drink a lot but has quit a year ago. She won't readily admit to it, but I suspect, like a lot of overweight female clients, she's an emotional eater. From what she's said, I'm gathering that she's working on that and has has achieved a pretty good level of control over it. Otherwise, it would be a no win situation.
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Too harsh, she'll not be able to hack it mentally. On top of that she will rebound like crazy when she comes off the diet.
Looks like she's already lost a lot of weight so stick with that, if it ain't broke, why fix it?
She's plateaued
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good for her on loosing almost 80llbs. Is she at a plateau or just looking to change her diet. I mean for me being overweight and still loosing 3-4 llbs a week, I eat my carbs (1 slice of wheat bread in the am) and cup of rice at lunch and no more for the day. But everyone is different. Great job in helping her
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No offense, but you might want to read up a little more. I don't want to get off subject, but your body very much needs carbs. They fill numerous roles in living things, such as the storage and transport of energy (starch, glycogen) and structural components (chitin). Additionally, carbohydrates and their derivatives play major roles in the working process of the immune system, fertilization, pathogenesis, blood clotting, and development. To cut them out would be very unhealthy and unwise.
You should tell that to the Inuits...they don't eat any carbs...
http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2
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good for her on loosing almost 80llbs. Is she at a plateau or just looking to change her diet. I mean for me being overweight and still loosing 3-4 llbs a week, I eat my carbs (1 slice of wheat bread in the am) and cup of rice at lunch and no more for the day. But everyone is different. Great job in helping her
Thank you very much
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I would look at doing a Zone type diet (do not think percentages). Go with about 1 gram protein per pound of LBM (NOT bodyweight), about 1.3 grams carbs per lb./LBM and about .40xlbm for healthy fats, but be sure to include the hidden fats in that number (ie; egg yolks). Take all those numbers - divide by 5. Take one of those numbers and divide it in half. That gives you 4 meals and 2 snacks. Each meal/snack includes each macronutrient.
So say her LBM is 130
That would be ~130 grams protein
~169 grams carbs
~52 grams fat
Each meal would be ~26 grams protein, ~34 grams carbs, 10 grams fat and each snack would be half that.
That's 1600~1700 cals per day, which for someone her size is good.
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ive got to agree with deicide. cut out her carbs. shes not an athlete, she doesnt need high intensity energy calories. and even if she was an athlete, she should only eat carbs pre/post workouts.
the enemy of fat metabolism is insulin. if you want to burn fat, you have to drop your insulin levels way down. then you can burn fat. that means no carbs. veggies are fine, they dont count as carbs.
and saying "she wont be able to hack it" and "she will rebound one she comes off the diet"....both of those are completely cock-a-mammy. and you should be slapped for saying that. if she cant stick to the diet, she doesnt want to lose weight. period. no excuses, tell that fat bitch to control what she puts in her mouth, its not hard. and she willl rebound when she comes off teh diet? ANYBODY will "rebound" and put on fat if they return to eating shity. healthy eating is a LIFELONG habit.
FUCK! i hate people with excuses about why they eat what they eat.
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"tell that fat bitch to control what she puts in her mouth, its not hard." - Candidizzle
Wonderful advice. Get some therapy for your anger and stop pretending you know anything about nutrition.
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bitch shut the fuck up ive fogotten more about nutrition than youll ever know
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bitch shut the fuck up ive fogotten more about nutrition than youll ever know
And spelling too. You're obviously a scholar of the highest order in both fields. You've proven that in both of your posts.
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yah IMA fukin JEENYUS!!!
;D
heres my point= tell that fat bitch to stop eating carbohydrates.
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Hey guys. I enjoy hearing/reading other people's opinions (so long as they're intelligent and educated) so I thought I'd throw this one out there.
I have a client who's down from 260 to @ 185 now. She's 48 years old, 5'9 and a endomorph with a slight bit of meso thrown in. The exercise is in place. She drinks enough water and supplements with flax oil for the hdl benefits as well as the slight metabolism boost. (She doesn't consume caffeine so there's nothing thwarting the inner body conversion of the flax)
Here's her diet
1) 1/3 -1/2 cup oatmeal or 2 eggs with ezekiel toast
2) yogurt (low sugar) or cottage cheese or pc fruit and handful of raw unsalted almonds
3) turkey sandwich or salad w/ grilled chicken or fish
4) same as # 2
5) 3-5 ounces of lean meat or chicken or fish. small side of comlex carbs and large side of broc or asparagus
6) same as #2
Thoughts/suggestions?
have you considered cocaine ???
bench
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heres what im going to do..ill help you out bro..
replace the flax with fish oil... flax has omega-6 as well as omega-3, you only want the omega 3. shes already getting omega-6.
meal one, 1 whole egg, 8 egg whites, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal two, 4 oz meat, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal three, 4 oz meat, 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal four, 4 oz meat, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal five, 4 oz meat, 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal six, 6 oz meat, small serving green veggies, 5 caps fish oil
plenty of water
cardio 2x per day 45 minutes on a 5 degree inlcine at 3 mph
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heres what im going to do..ill help you out bro..
replace the flax with fish oil... flax has omega-6 as well as omega-3, you only want the omega 3. shes already getting omega-6.
meal one, 1 whole egg, 8 egg whites, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal two, 4 oz meat, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal three, 4 oz meat, 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal four, 4 oz meat, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal five, 4 oz meat, 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal six, 6 oz meat, small serving green veggies, 5 caps fish oil
plenty of water
cardio 2x per day 45 minutes on a 5 degree inlcine at 3 mph
i figured you of all people would agree with my last statement ;D
bench
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i figured you of all people would agree with my last statement ;D
bench
i fgures that was a reference to me.. lol
but; nah.. coke was horrible for my body composition. i got fatter and lost muscle at the same time. (dont eat for 10 hours and then binge eat on shit foodfor an hour, dont eat for 10 hours, binge eat on shit food for an hour...ect..plus no sleep..)
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can I ask why all the fish oil, my doctor wants me to take just to fish oil vitamins a day
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heres what im going to do..ill help you out bro..
replace the flax with fish oil... flax has omega-6 as well as omega-3, you only want the omega 3. shes already getting omega-6.
meal one, 1 whole egg, 8 egg whites, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal two, 4 oz meat, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal three, 4 oz meat, 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal four, 4 oz meat, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal five, 4 oz meat, 1 tablespoon all natural peanut butter, unlimited green veggies, 2 caps fish oil
meal six, 6 oz meat, small serving green veggies, 5 caps fish oil
plenty of water
cardio 2x per day 45 minutes on a 5 degree inlcine at 3 mph
Following your advice, with all the meat, oil, and fiber, she'll poop her way to 160 in 2 weeks time! On top of that, her kidneys will be beat up from too much protein.
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Thoughts/suggestions?
Humans thrive best on an omnivorous diet comprised of whole foods that is high in nutrients and moderate to low in calories. That is what all the scientific evidence suggests.
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Wow. Thanks so much for the wonderful help! Following your expert advice, with all the meat, oil, and fiber, she'll poop her way to 150 in 2 weeks time! On top of that, her kidneys will be beat up from too much protein. Thanks again for the help Mr Atkins
I'll advise her to get
Why do you insist that a diet high in carbohydrates is necessary?
Did you read the link I gave you?
Carbohydrates are a new phenomenon in terms of human evolution.
More information...
http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/skinny.html
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I did and I thank you for the link. I don't believe her diet is too high in carbs. Not overtly so anyway. Granted we could knock out a yogurt here and a cottage cheese portion there. This woman is never going to weigh 140. She doesn't need to either. We'd be happy to get into the 160's but I want something that will sustain her energy. Greens and proteins are not a good source of energy. Fat's are fine, but the other guy suggesting all that fish oil plus the peanut butter, is way too much fat. She'll never get off the toilet, especially when coupled with a lot of greens. Perhaps a compromise is in order. Sub out some of the carbs you're referring to and replace them with a few greens.
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Perhaps a compromise is in order.
She needs a lifestyle / way of eating ~ something balanced and livable ~ lifelong, not a temporary 'diet'. What I posted earlier is just that.
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bitch shut the fuck up ive fogotten more about nutrition than youll ever know
bing.....................................bang.................................wait a second, here it comes................... BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMM ;D
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Following your advice, with all the meat, oil, and fiber, she'll poop her way to 160 in 2 weeks time! On top of that, her kidneys will be beat up from too much protein.
hahahah
wow
you dont know ANYTHING
hahaha
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I did and I thank you for the link. I don't believe her diet is too high in carbs. Not overtly so anyway. Granted we could knock out a yogurt here and a cottage cheese portion there. This woman is never going to weigh 140. She doesn't need to either. We'd be happy to get into the 160's but I want something that will sustain her energy. Greens and proteins are not a good source of energy. Fat's are fine, but the other guy suggesting all that fish oil plus the peanut butter, is way too much fat. She'll never get off the toilet, especially when coupled with a lot of greens. Perhaps a compromise is in order. Sub out some of the carbs you're referring to and replace them with a few greens.
way too much fat?
ahhaha
2 tablespoons of peanut butter and 2 caps fish oil at each meal... thats too much fat..
but 190 grams of carbs is just fine..
hahhaha
bro, just KILL YOURSELF.
hahaha
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;D yeah peroni, listen to this huge muscle monster.
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;D yeah peroni, listen to this huge muscle monster.
Exactly. I hope one day to have his knowledge since the physique is most certainly unattainable.
BTW cumdrizzle, 190 grams? Before you take your GED, brush up on the math... Typical teenage internet keyboard warrior. Uneducated, angry, skinny/fat fucks like him are the reason I don't like to post serious things on this site.
Oh well... I'm going to go rub a bunch of fish oil on some greens now and hope to better myself.
Maybe when I've finished I'll have cumdrizzle's knowledge, wit and charm.
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its not the fish oil, its the omega-3 in the fish oil.
the diet i posted couldnt be better. your client would lose fat like theres no tomorrow.
strachy carbohydrates that release glucose into the blood stream at a faster rate than the body naturally burns them are in no way conducive to fat loss. AND are unhealthy and contribute to insulin resistance, bad cholesterol, and diabetes.
if nothing else, put some faith in omega-3's. for body composition, there is no greater nutrient. i would say that it compares to leucine.
actually, i would say that omega 369 are like leucine-isolleucine-valine
the most important being the omega 3 and the leucine
pretty cool how that works out
and i dont look like that photo. squadfather is a douchebag and knows that i dont. i posted that as a comparison to show how much weight i had lost.
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its not the fish oil, its the omega-3 in the fish oil.
the diet i posted couldnt be better. your client would lose fat like theres no tomorrow.
strachy carbohydrates that release glucose into the blood stream at a faster rate than the body naturally burns them are in no way conducive to fat loss. AND are unhealthy and contribute to insulin resistance, bad cholesterol, and diabetes.
if nothing else, put some faith in omega-3's. for body composition, there is no greater nutrient. i would say that it compares to leucine.
actually, i would say that omega 369 are like leucine-isolleucine-valine
the most important being the omega 3 and the leucine
pretty cool how that works out
and i dont look like that photo. squadfather is a douchebag and knows that i dont. i posted that as a comparison to show how much weight i had lost.
Any man that looks like he could be tit fucked is not someone I'm going to take nutrition advice from. Simple as that. End of discussion.
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so dont take advice from squadfather.
i told you, i dont look like that.
and so far, all the replies in the thread i created comparing your diet to mine have been in favor of my diet.
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She needs a lifestyle / way of eating ~ something balanced and livable ~ lifelong, not a temporary 'diet'. What I posted earlier is just that.
This is the best advice given for this situation.
The lady is 260 lbs and even though her body fat is not listed its a safe assumtion that she is obese. At this point she needs to consume less calories and become more active. Getting in the habbit of consuming smaller more frequent meals, healthier food choices, working out, ect... is where she needs to start.
When she is under 200lbs and at healthy bodyfat % then she can worry about carbs to protein ratios. Right now eat less garbage and become active.
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Hi Peroni,
Wow congrats to her on losing 70 Pounds!!!
How long has she been on that eating plan?
If it were me:
1. I would drop or reduce the yogurts.
2. I would have the complex carbs early and have the greens in my last 2 meals.
3.I also dont like to mix my fats with sugar (i.e the nuts and fruit)
4. I would eat more protein. (i.e. 5 oz of chicken instead of 3-4)
5. I would also make sure that the protein powder sprinkled on the oatmeal was at least equiv to 24 grams of protein.
Maybe she can add cardio in the AM on an empty stomach if not doing it already.
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Cindy's advice is good IMO...especially the part about the yogurt. If you're going to have her eat yogurt it should be sugar free. I'm not sure if they even make sugar free yogurt simply because I don't have my clients eat it.
Another thought, you might start adding in a few low days to her diet per wk. I know this person is not a competitor or anything and that type of thing such as cycling your diet is usually thought of as only for competitors, but it does seem to help/work for those struggling to get things going again.
Last thing, I like seeing more fat and less carbs in diets...it is my preference. I typically have my clients eat very few carbs until they reach their weight loss goal. After that, we begin slowly moving them back in to fit in a more sensable way. No, I don't have them do Atkins or anything like that, carbs are simply very limited.
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Is this the same woman as the other thread? I agree with what Cindy said for the most part.
With meals 2, 4, and 6, you are giving her the option of eating up to 6 yogurts and/or three pieces of fruit a day. You should specify at least two of those three meals for her instead of giving her the option, and probably go with a lean protein and veggie for both of them (or maybe for one of them, and a protein shake for the other). She's got plenty of complex carbs in the other meals, and she definitely doesn't need that many simple carbs.
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If the carbs must be there, then why not earlier in the day?
Having the carbs late in the day (dinner time) will force the pancreas to produce insulin and block the effects of glucagon since the two are antagonist hormones.
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White loss diet for a large woman
Stop eating. It's very simple. This isn't fluid dynamics or differential geometry. There is no need for complicating the issue. Just ingest less calories than you spend, and you will get slimmer.
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If the carbs must be there, then why not earlier in the day?
Having the carbs late in the day (dinner time) will force the pancreas to produce insulin and block the effects of glucagon since the two are antagonist hormones.
true. and so is insulin and gh. and insulin and cyclical amp, and acetylo coa.
basially, with elevated insulin, fat loss is impossible; except for fat lossed because of digestion. thats the main reason why carbs are the enemy of a fat loss diet.
this guy just doesnt get it.
but whatever.
he obviously doesnt want any help... he just wantd to brag about how he got some fat slob to lose some weight by eating healthier.
big accomplishment ::)
lol
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true. and so is insulin and gh. and insulin and cyclical amp, and acetylo coa.
basially, with elevated insulin, fat loss is impossible; except for fat lossed because of digestion. thats the main reason why carbs are the enemy of a fat loss diet.
this guy just doesnt get it.
but whatever.
he obviously doesnt want any help... he just wantd to brag about how he got some fat slob to lose some weight by eating healthier.
big accomplishment ::)
lol
I've been a trainer for 14 + years. I've been successful because I know a thing or 2. It turns out we are not at a plateau as previously stated since the woman divulged that she wasn't following my advice. Now that she has, in the past 10 days, she's dropped 3 lbs.
The reason I posted this on the board was to get intelligent opinions from educated, cool people. I don't know it all and am always trying to increase my knowledge through reading and listening. The concept of informed people having a forum in which to share ideas for the common good is a great one.
The reason I'm not at all interested in what you have to say is simple. You are rude, immature as a 13 year old, and hypocritical. All this crap of "kill yourself". etc etc. Referring to anyone who's lost a lot of weight and continues to try, as a fat bitch, slob etc isn't funny. It's nasty and foolish and makes you look bad. Not her. The good points you have to contribute are made irrelevant due to your idiotic behavior.
You can type until your arms fall off but I'm not going to acknowledge any further posts from you. You're the annoying roach that tries to get into the picnic basket. To all the cool people that have contributed to this thread, whether we agree or not, thank you.
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I've been a trainer for 14 + years. I've been successful because I know a thing or 2. It turns out we are not at a plateau as previously stated since the woman divulged that she wasn't following my advice. Now that she has, in the past 10 days, she's dropped 3 lbs.
The reason I posted this on the board was to get intelligent opinions from educated, cool people. I don't know it all and am always trying to increase my knowledge through reading and listening. The concept of informed people having a forum in which to share ideas for the common good is a great one.
The reason I'm not at all interested in what you have to say is simple. You are rude, immature as a 13 year old, and hypocritical. All this crap of "kill yourself". etc etc. Referring to anyone who's lost a lot of weight and continues to try, as a fat bitch, slob etc isn't funny. It's nasty and foolish and makes you look bad. Not her. You state all these "scientific facts' such as carbs trigger your body to raise your insulin... Carbs convert to insulin. They don't trigger it. You can type until your arms fall off but I'm not going to acknowledge any further posts from you. You're the annoying roach that tries to get into the picnic basket. To all the cool people that have contributed to this thread, whether we agree or not, thank you.
I would like to foster some discussion.
If insulin and glucagon are antagonistic hormones and glucagon is more useful when it comes to dieting and burning fat; why not optimise the production of the hormone by reducing insulin levels whilst on a diet? I am legitimately curious why you think this is a bad thing?
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what are you expecting? me to say "awesome diet plan! way to go! you sure accomplished alot getting an obese women to shed a few poounds! " ::)
fool.
besides, this is GETBIG.COM.. if you want someone to put their lips on your ass head over to musclemayhem or bodybuilding.com.. your not going to get that here :-*
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I would like to foster some discussion.
If insulin and glucagon are antagonistic hormones and glucagon is more useful when it comes to dieting and burning fat; why not optimise the production of the hormone by reducing insulin levels whilst on a diet? I am legitimately curious why you think this is a bad thing?
he doesnt have any idea what your talking about deicide. this guy is a "a calorie is a calorie" "balanced diet" kind of douchebag... he thinks a fat loss diet is one where you choose "healthy foods" with small portion sizes and lots of cardio... ;D ;D
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I would like to foster some discussion.
If insulin and glucagon are antagonistic hormones and glucagon is more useful when it comes to dieting and burning fat; why not optimise the production of the hormone by reducing insulin levels whilst on a diet? I am legitimately curious why you think this is a bad thing?
I don't wholly disagree with what you said at all. In fact I altered the plan a bit based upon your good suggestions. I just didn't go as far with it as you suggested.