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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Neurotoxin on March 20, 2008, 12:22:08 PM
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Damn. Livin the american dream. Hope bush waves as he flys over all the tent cities that will spring up.
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former homeowners now living in tents.
thank you mr. bush. ::)
Pardon my naivety, but how is this bush's fault?
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Pardon my naivety, but how is this bush's fault?
He did lax just about all regulation on business/banks/utilities etc etc... There has been a wild west atmosphere in corp/banking business under Bush. Surely his extreme neoliberal approach had those doing the deed set at ease. Aside from that, I have further "suspicions" Homes sales were at something like a 20 year high for Bush's election year in 2004. Almost overnight they went from telling unqualified people to take a hike to saying, hey, I think we can work something out. JUST suspicious.
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He did lax just about all regulation on business/banks/utilities etc etc... There has been a wild west atmosphere in corp/banking business under Bush. Surely his extreme neoliberal approach had those doing the deed set at ease. Aside from that, I have further "suspicions" Homes sales were at something like a 20 year high for Bush's election year in 2004. Almost overnight they went from telling unqualified people to take a hike to saying, hey, I think we can work something out. JUST suspicious.
Wild west...!!!! LMAO.
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I'd love to blame Bush but deregulation started under Clinton and the rest of the blame goes to the Investment Bank who created the market for these securities while somehow not realizing that as loans in pools started to go bad it would become IMPOSSIBLE to figure out a fair market value for said securities and the whole mess would create the shitstorm we have today. Greenspan should probably get some blame too
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He did lax just about all regulation on business/banks/utilities etc etc... There has been a wild west atmosphere in corp/banking business under Bush. Surely his extreme neoliberal approach had those doing the deed set at ease. Aside from that, I have further "suspicions" Homes sales were at something like a 20 year high for Bush's election year in 2004. Almost overnight they went from telling unqualified people to take a hike to saying, hey, I think we can work something out. JUST suspicious.
My that worm looks tasty! ;D
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My that worm looks tasty! ;D
LOL. Alot of people gorged on worms..... ;D
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Wow! I thought that was just another Mexican tent city(they are EVERYWHERE in the Southwest, often lined up just beyond the borders of affluent neighborhoods or tucked away in the nether-regions of larger cities) until I saw white and black faces in there.
I still maintain part of the problem is on "homeowners" themselves. Many lacked the foresight to adaquetely prepare for the numerous "what-if" scenarios that could arise that would adversely affect their ability to make mortgage payments. Of course, a LOT of the blame is on the unregulated banking and lending industries as people who work and have family in the vicinity have no other choice than to obtain a mortgage on the artificially bloated real estate present. Crushing healthcare costs and offshoring of skilled jobs doesn't help matters either.
But I'm just wondering how many of those in the tent city were run and gunnin' home flippers looking to make a quick profit? Some take a lot of risk in the real estate market and should be prepared to face the realities and consequences should they lose out. It's unfortunate that some of them take their families along for the ride. What I want to know, is, like the commercials you heard on the radio before the crash, how many real estate "gurus" are out there now?
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former homeowners now living in tents.
thank you mr. bush. ::)
It's sad. But it's not ALL doom & gloom. People have been able to rise up despite operating in adverse conditions.
I work with many people who've lost EVERYTHING; some even had to live in a trailer after Hurricane Katrina.
But after only 3 months my friend Ricky B was able to get out of that FEMA trailer and into a brand new home.
You can hear Ricky tell his story in the video entitled 'The Global Experience' available here (http://www.fuelfreedomproducts.com)
(But only click the link if you want to hear Ricky's story, if not, don't click it. Ricky starts at about 8 mins 55 sec in)
The mainstream media won't even touch these stories. It's as if they fear people can't handle them. Yes we can. People have been rising up and overcoming adversity and challenges for years, ...centuries. Americans are no different. It's in her bones. America is chock full of spiritual mentors who have guided them along that path for years. They all had one thing in common... the audacity of hope. It enabled and empowered them to rise, ....and rise they did. And they passed that baton to future generations. Generations who are well equipped to guide the present and future generations along the path that they too must now travel. The people living in the tent cities have been struck hard, ...but like so many others before them who have been dealt heavy blows, ...they too will rise (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/audio/Maya_I-Rise.wma). <--click me (windows media audio clip)
It's sad that Americans have to turn to foreign journalists to hear about homegrown hometown stories that their own news media will not even touch.
It's just like the other day when in response to JBGray's post about how the high cost of fuel was affecting every day prices of goods & services, I mentioned in passing the heavy toll current economic conditions were having on long haul truckers forcing them out of business and off the road, but that there was not even a peep of this in the media, ...only to be called a liar by HeadHunter, and to see my comments censored as some sort of spam.
I still do not see how my innocent validation of JBGray's comments were considered spam.
This censorship of my comments however, IMO, was quite consistent with the sins of omission we see daily coming from the corporately owned news media. Not only was I called a liar, my comment was deleted. That this censorship was done by a mod who has a consistent pattern of blindly agreeing both to and with every "official version" of lies handed to the people, no matter how incongruous, no matter much they defy the laws of nature, physics, or just plain logic, reason or common sense, should be no surprise.
I'm sure if NeuroToxin had merely made the statement that tent cities were popping up throughout the USA without having posted that link to validate his statement, he too might have been called a liar. Therefore, I don't think it unreasonable of me to prove that I was NOT lying, and that what I alledged to be occuring within the trucking industry is indeed happening. These guys are the ones that are protecting America's way of life on the domestic front. Without them, America shuts down... HARD! As patriotic concerned citizen's, shouldn't you know about any threats to them, ...and by extention, ...to you? I think you should, and I think those of you who understand the big picture do want to know and understand these concerns as well. Only through understanding the challenges we face as a society, are we then in a position to take positive action to meet and confront those challenges.
I wish I had not been called a liar, and my motivations questioned. It would then not have put me in the position of having to back up my allegation. Unfortunately, the only mechanism by which I am able to do this, to prove I was not lying, is by posting the proof ...the basis of my allegation.
Disclaimer: This proof comes using the only material I currently have at my disposal at the moment to do so, which happens to be a conference call from 2 days ago.
The subject of this conference call was not about validating an off the cuff remark censored by those who would rather stand idly by while the corporate news media focusses on distractions and continues to put forth lies of omission, in an attempt to keep the public from discovering what is really happening all around them, ...but rather was about providing information and collaborative, co-operative assistance, to our independent colleagues throughout North America. I apologize that I do not have at my disposal at the moment any other material with which to back up my allegations.
Please understand this is NOT intended as SPAM. The snippet you are about to hear, if you choose to click to hear it (and it is a choice) was a snippet from AFTER the official call was over. It was during our Q & A portion when quite frequently many of us simply just engage in conversation with each other, ...sometimes just keeping the truckers company as many of them are calling in on cell phones while they're out driving through the country. The purpose of posting this is to back up my allegations vis-a-vis truckers, and for no other purpose. I would also like to request that you not listen to the entire snippet, but rather fast forward to 14 mins 45 seconds into it to get to the claim I asserted on here earlier... a claim that was entirely about truckers siphoning gas out of their tanks and selling it to get a bus ticket home, and abandoning their rigs. That is the intent of posting this link... solely to validate and back up the allegation I made with regard to the economic toll the current state of affairs is having on the independent owner/operators who keep your country running and for no other purpose.
The clarification I provide, I believe to be very clear. And we are all adults with the ability to sort through and filter out periferals to focus in on relevant targets, so I'm requesting that we do just that.
That said, here is the validation of the claim I previously asserted that:
Independent truckers are abandoning their rigs and going out of business (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/audio/manchuk-snippet.wma). (windows media audio)
Bush's economic policies are exacting a very heavy price on your country. The cost of this war is too high a price to be paying for a lie. McCain wants to perpetuate this. Thankfully, you have a presidential candidate (the only presidential candidate) with sound judgement who understood from the inception what the cost of war would be.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
former homeowners now living in tents.
thank you mr. bush. ::)
fixed
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great points HC. in addition, bush pushed the fed to lower interest rates to 45 year lows. georgie was fixated on "every american owning a home" this fueled speculation and the worst housing crisis since the The Great Depression.
also, before the 04 elections, bush had goldman sachs (thru henry paulson) sell off most their gasoline positions, this resulted in a net drop of gas prices by almost $1.00 just before the 2004 elections....remember that ? then, following the election, GS bought back their sold off positions and fuel prices resumed their rise.
this is called manipulating the market for political gain.
my colleague's and i saw this first hand. ;)
NT
I'm just trying to understand why someone losing there house is BUSH's fault.
He lowers the interest rate and removes regulations that banks and lending institutions have to follow to so more people can buy houses that maybe can't. Income to debt ratio is ignored and people get home loans. They default on these loans and we have 900k in forecloser in the US right now.
But in the end, whether someone lends you the money or not, isn't really the buyers fault incurring debt they cannot pay?
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former homeowners now living in tents.
thank you mr. bush. ::)
Mr.Bush? No, to be sure he's a dickhead but you should thank your friends Bernanke and Greenspan for this one.... ;)
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I guess personel responsibility is out the window right...only if big government regulates will things be ok. Gimme a break..if u can't afford something u don't buy it. If banks ignore all the warning signs on a loan application, thats their fault. U idiots blame Bush for eveything...these people bought beyond their means.
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I guess personel responsibility is out the window right...only if big government regulates will things be ok. Gimme a break..if u can't afford something u don't buy it. If banks ignore all the warning signs on a loan application, thats their fault. U idiots blame Bush for eveything...these people bought beyond their means.
Partially agree with you on this one Mr. Headhunter but artifically lowering interest rates causes malinvestment so Bernanke and Greenspan need to take some of the blame as well.
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ozmo, you just answered your own question.
NT
That's doesn't make sense, NT.
If i choose to jump off a cliff, is it BUSH's or the cities or who ever's fault that i died becuase they didn't put a fence on the cliff to prevent me from jumping?
These people knowingly bought a house that they couldn't afford.
How is this BUsh's fault?
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Bernanke does what hes told. The fed is allowed to do whatever they want and have the administration to push them into it.
They needed a bubble to get the last of the money out of americans pockets and to take the pressure off bush and his dismal approval.
We are watching the dollar go to hell and they know it. It is being done intentionally. It isnt too easy to break a superpower but obviously its being done...
A former president had a sign on his desk. "The buck stops here"
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I'm just trying to understand why someone losing there house is BUSH's fault.
He lowers the interest rate and removes regulations that banks and lending institutions have to follow to so more people can buy houses that maybe can't. Income to debt ratio is ignored and people get home loans. They default on these loans and we have 900k in forecloser in the US right now.
ozmo, you cannot lower interest rates to near zero, remove lending regulations so that no document loans are the norm and easy to obtain, plus ignore income to debt ratio WITHOUT CREATING A CREDIT CRISIS and attendant housing bubble.
this housing bubble was created by predatory lending practices that the bush regime encouraged. ::) the bush policy "that everyone deserves a home" was total BS and the housing collapse has proved it.
this situation was never a "housing crisis", it was a LENDING crisis, which the bush regime allowed to fester.
therefore, bush is responsible.
NT
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raise interest rates to 21% tomorrow.
That'll kick some people in the pants :)
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raise interest rates to 21% tomorrow.
That'll kick some people in the pants :)
Yee haw.
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Partially agree with you on this one Mr. Headhunter but artifically lowering interest rates causes malinvestment so Bernanke and Greenspan need to take some of the blame as well.
What are you talking about? Whitout Big Government GI Joe homie would be living in one of those tents. All he's done throughout his life is carry a gun, suck on the flag and not pay taxes.
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What are you talking about? Whitout Big Government GI Joe homie would be living in one of those tents. All he's done throughout his life is carry a gun, suck on the flag and not pay taxes.
LOL. Actually he pays taxes back from the taxes he receives................ and so on and so on.
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What are you talking about? Whitout Big Government GI Joe homie would be living in one of those tents. All he's done throughout his life is carry a gun, suck on the flag and not pay taxes.
The US has a broken government. The only solution is to return to a strong federalisation of everything, relegating most important decisions to the state level.
The three headed dragon (executive, legislative and judicial) is broken and does not work well. Revamping everything and turning it into a parliamentary system would be better.
Change directives of Federal reserve (if you can't get rid of it) to preventing inflation alone and disregarding growth as is the case with the European Central Bank.
Much of this has been done to great effect in the EU and it works quite well.
Regardless of dishonest and/or predatory lending practises: one should never spend money one does not have.
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LOL. Actually he pays taxes back from the taxes he receives................ and so on and so on.
Yup, you have to realise that the armed forces are absolutely totalitarian entities within a democratic society. That's why all these nutjobs from the "heartland" and patriots alike tend to be so obedient and domesticated.
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Yup, you have to realise that the armed forces are absolutely totalitarian entities within a democratic society. That's why all these nutjobs from the "heartland" and patriots alike tend to be so obedient and domesticated.
Lots of bible thumpers there too...
You aren't American are you?
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The US has a broken government. The only solution is to return to a strong federalisation of everything, relegating most important decisions to the state level.
The three headed dragon (executive, legislative and judicial) is broken and does not work well. Revamping everything and turning it into a parliamentary system would be better.
Change directives of Federal reserve (if you can't get rid of it) to preventing inflation alone and disregarding growth as is the case with the European Central Bank.
Much of this has been done to great effect in the EU and it works quite well.
Regardless of dishonest and/or predatory lending practises: one should never spend money one does not have.
Well, that is a difficult thing to do. Most of the power in the Union is now in Washington, while states have been progresively emptied of any real power (all they do is collect property taxes, issue drivers licenses and provide services alike). Fuckface Cheney has said in many ocasions that the president of the USA should have the final word on everything and should not be questioned, ever! Can you believe that? This is America in the XXI century.
With so much power concentrated in one place, it is going to take a gargantuan effort to get all these bureaucrats to relinquish their power and hand it back to the states. For one thing corporations will not like it so there will be a media campaign against handing power back to the states, probably under the retarded presumption that indoingso the government will become weaker (which will not be the case) and hence vulnerable to attack by other countries (which will get all these Kansas/Oklahoma types-individuals into survival mode and all hell will break loose). So all in all, I see us heading, head first, into a pseudo-fascist regime within the next 50 years for sure.
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Lots of bible thumpers there too...
You aren't American are you?
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn las night. I was customer 1 through 8.
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No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn las night. I was customer 1 through 8.
Canadian?
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Well, that is a difficult thing to do. Most of the power in the Union is now in Washington, while states have been progresively emptied of any real power (all they do is collect property taxes, issue drivers licenses and provide services alike). Fuckface Cheney has said in many ocasions that the president of the USA should have the final word on everything and should not be questioned, ever! Can you believe that? This is America in the XXI century.
With so much power concentrated in one place, it is going to take a gargantuan effort to get all these bureaucrats to relinquish their power and hand it back to the states. For one thing corporations will not like it so there will be a media campaign against handing power back to the states, probably under the retarded presumption that indoingso the government will become weaker (which will not be the case) and hence vulnerable to attack by other countries (which will get all these Kansas/Oklahoma types-individuals into survival mode and all hell will break loose). So all in all, I see us heading, head first, into a pseudo-fascist regime within the next 50 years for sure.
Good thing I don't live there.
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Canadian?
No, gringo my man! Although I'm well travelled and lived in another country for many years (because of work).
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Good thing I don't live there.
Good, so you probably know how much sympathy other people have for us. It is quite a shock for an American, when traveling abroad, to find out that half of the world hates our guts. It is also enlightning to find out that some of our presidents meet the murderous profiles that would make Mengele proud. I myself got my ass kicked once for talking politics in Europe...
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Good, so you probably know how much sympathy other people have for us. It is quite a shock for an American, when traveling abroad, to find out that half of the world hates our guts. It is also enlightning to find out that some of our presidents meet the murderous profiles that would make Mengele proud. I myself got my ass kicked once for talking politics in Europe...
I am American and European.
Eh, the USA is doomed. Historic really, watching it fall. It sucks but there is nothing that can be done. At least one can watch the death throes whilst earning Euros.... ;)
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No, gringo my man! Although I'm well travelled and lived in another country for many years (because of work).
Where, the UK?
You employ British orthographical rules when writing.
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Where, the UK?
You employ British orthographical rules when writing.
No, Spain actually.
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No, Spain actually.
Me too. Of course Im born american, but family from spain on both sides.
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Me too. Of course Im born american, but family from spain on both sides.
Great country. I was actually lucky enough to live through the González's years in power and was able to experience life through a different (pseudo-socialist) system: Universal health care system, public education, universal retirement, etc. The system had its faults, but it worked!
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Yup, you have to realise that the armed forces are absolutely totalitarian entities within a democratic society. That's why all these nutjobs from the "heartland" and patriots alike tend to be so obedient and domesticated.
I'm from Boston so i guess that doesn't apply..u libs are so far gone..please move and take ur anti-American bullshit with u...nobody will ever miss u. The heartland is this country...without the heartland..u idiots on the coasts would starve.
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I'm from Boston so i guess that doesn't apply..u libs are so far gone..please move and take ur anti-American bullshit with u...nobody will ever miss u. The heartland is this country...without the heartland..u idiots on the coasts would starve.
Reminds me of a chevy truck commercial.... ;D
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Reminds me of a chevy truck commercial.... ;D
It reminds me of the nutjob that kept going "me, me, me!!!" in the Who's the Biggest Asshole competition.
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ozmo, you cannot lower interest rates to near zero, remove lending regulations so that no document loans are the norm and easy to obtain, plus ignore income to debt ratio WITHOUT CREATING A CREDIT CRISIS and attendant housing bubble.
this housing bubble was created by predatory lending practices that the bush regime encouraged. ::) the bush policy "that everyone deserves a home" was total BS and the housing collapse has proved it.
this situation was never a "housing crisis", it was a LENDING crisis, which the bush regime allowed to fester.
therefore, bush is responsible.
NT
I think i understand what you are saying and i thank you for answering and appreciate you taking the time.
If i understand it right, to me, who has been very critical of BUSH and even labeled a BUSH hater by some neo-taints on the board, it seems like he created a situation that allowed more people the choice to buy a house that normally couldn't and because of that many bought houses that really couldn't afford them becuase they had that choice.
I can see why you could put blame on BUSH here for creating that situation.
Although in my mind the ultimate fault as far each person who bought a house they couldn't afford is one each of these people becuase they choose to buy it. No one forced them to buy it. just as no one forces me to run up my amex by going to vegas and then not being able to pay it a month from now.
These policies opened the doors for people to put themselves in bad situations where they couldn't afford the house, but it was by their choice to do it in the first place.
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It reminds me of the nutjob that kept going "me, me, me!!!" in the Who's the Biggest Asshole competition.
Have you seen that commercial for J.G.Wentworth on T.V. All those people screaming in the streets "Its my money and I want it now"!!!!
I want to kick in my tv when i see that thing......F'in greedy pigs.....
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Have you seen that commercial for J.G.Wentworth on T.V. All those people screaming in the streets "Its my money and I want it now"!!!!
I want to kick in my tv when i see that thing......F'in greedy pigs.....
Nope, I haven't. Although JG Wenworth is well known for helping the poor and the needy. Not!
I do not know how the American people can just sit back and turn a blind eye to what their government is doing around the world.
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What are we doing exactly...what should we stop doing....how many countries do we aid, how many people do we feed. But ur right we should cut off all aid, monetary or otherwise to everybody...the UN would be whining withing the minute. Its all our fault, because withouyt the US, the world would be at peace right?
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I'm from Boston so i guess that doesn't apply..u libs are so far gone..please move and take ur anti-American bullshit with u...nobody will ever miss u. The heartland is this country...without the heartland..u idiots on the coasts would starve.
Blind allegiance to the state, strong nationalism, wholly bereft of individual thought; what's the point? All the result of an arbitrary set of events.
If you are a globetrotter you need never starve, just be flexible and adaptable.
I certainly don't want to depend on bible thumping nutcases for my survival.
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I think i understand what you are saying and i thank you for answering and appreciate you taking the time.
If i understand it right, to me, who has been very critical of BUSH and even labeled a BUSH hater by some neo-taints on the board, it seems like he created a situation that allowed more people the choice to buy a house that normally couldn't and because of that many bought houses that really couldn't afford them becuase they had that choice.
I can see why you could put blame on BUSH here for creating that situation.
Although in my mind the ultimate fault as far each person who bought a house they couldn't afford is one each of these people becuase they choose to buy it. No one forced them to buy it.
These policies opened the doors for people to put themselves in bad situations where they couldn't afford the house, but it was by their choice to do it in the first place.
ozmo, your point is well taken, but without strict lending regulations in place, people who clearly couldn't purchase a home were not only given a chance to own a home, many left the closing with EXTRA cash in their pockets as well. who would turn down a home plus extra spending cash with ZERO risk ? if their payments escalated and were unable to make them...... they'd just walk away. leaving the financial institutions and the US tax payers to clean up the mess.
the banking crisis of the late 1920's and 1930s which led in The Great Depression, resulted from unregulated, unsupervised financial markets (similar to now) which can all too easily suffer catastrophic failure.
as the decades passed, that lesson was forgotten — and now we’re relearning it, the hard way.
bush & co. embraced the failed policies of the Depression era, only to repeat them.
NT
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It reminds me of the nutjob that kept going "me, me, me!!!" in the Who's the Biggest Asshole competition.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/rotflmao.gif)
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Nope, I haven't. Although JG Wenworth is well known for helping the poor and the needy. Not!
I do not know how the American people can just sit back and turn a blind eye to what their government is doing around the world.
Sadly, ...it's much easier than you think!
It's easy for you & I, who are outside of the USA to fume with rage, ...however, something we have to keep in the forefront of our minds is that information about the USA and what she does around the world is largely filtered out for Americans at home. Heck, they're barely even getting news from right within the country itself. If they don't know what's going on, how can they be expected to do something about it.
Every day though, more & more Americans are taking the time to inform themselves. Just look at this very board. I can remember it was just a short time ago when people were freaking out that I or anyone else dared to post a political topic or even dared to suggest that America was not the rosy, peachy, bastion of democracy and human rights she puts herself forth to be. Disclosures of hard truths were met with accusations of "Anti-Americanism". Heck, I can recall suggesting a book be read and the post was deleted... for recommending a book written by a former member of the State Dept. We've come a long way! And I think Americans have come a long way from just a few years ago. The fog is lifting, ...slowly but surely. Don't be so hard on your countrymen. They're playing with a handicap that you and I are not burdened with. Had we had the same blinders placed on us, who is to say it wouldn't have taken us longer to start figuring things out. Considering the burden they've had to bear, ...I think they're progressing pretty well, ...although there are still some that really make you want to give them a good shake at times.
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ozmo, your point is well taken, but without strict lending regulations in place, people who clearly couldn't purchase a home were not only given a chance to own a home, many left the closing with EXTRA cash in their pockets as well. who would turn down a home plus extra spending cash with ZERO risk ? if their payments escalated and were unable to make them...... they'd just walk away. leaving the financial institutions and the US tax payers to clean up the mess.
the banking crisis of the late 1920's and 1930s which led in The Great Depression, resulted from unregulated, unsupervised financial markets (similar to now) which can all too easily suffer catastrophic failure.
as the decades passed, that lesson was forgotten — and now we’re relearning it, the hard way.
bush & co. embraced the failed policies of the Depression era, only to repeat them.
NT
We don't even have to go that far back to find the Bush family ushered in a RE crisis... the S&L fiasco of the 80's.
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ozmo, you cannot lower interest rates to near zero, remove lending regulations so that no document loans are the norm and easy to obtain, plus ignore income to debt ratio WITHOUT CREATING A CREDIT CRISIS and attendant housing bubble.
this housing bubble was created by predatory lending practices that the bush regime encouraged. ::) the bush policy "that everyone deserves a home" was total BS and the housing collapse has proved it.
this situation was never a "housing crisis", it was a LENDING crisis, which the bush regime allowed to fester.
therefore, bush is responsible.
NT
Sure the practices are predatory but is Bush really responsible for someone being too stupid to realize they can't afford something? Maybe the gov should make credit cards illegal too and stop people from spending money they don't have.
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Sure the practices are predatory but is Bush really responsible for someone being too stupid to realize they can't afford something? Maybe the gov should make credit cards illegal too and stop people from spending money they don't have.
It's not all about people buying too much home. In many cases, it was people refinancing their homes, homes that they had for years, and the mortgages comes up for renewal, ...and since the re-fi, interest rates rose to beyond what they could afford. When the market appraises a home at X, and lenders issue a mortgage based on a certain amount of equity in the property, ...if the value gets re-assessed at Y, the bank is coming for that home. When someone owes more for the house than what it can be sold for, ...I think the creator(s) of the economic policies that fostered such market instability cannot ber considered blameless.
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[...]It's easy for you & I, who are outside of the USA to fume with rage[...]
I actually live in the states now.
[...]however, something we have to keep in the forefront of our minds is that information about the USA and what she does around the world is largely filtered out for Americans at home. Heck, they're barely even getting news from right within the country itself. If they don't know what's going on, how can they be expected to do something about it.
Yeah, but come on! People are attacking us know and all they can think about is "they hate us for our freedoms" or "Islam is not a religion of peace". Huh? Fucking huh?! I mean, are we stupid enough to not be able to connect the dots? Are we stupid enough to think there isn't a war going on because the major media outlets refuse to give it any airtime aside from the usual "Iraquis love the freedom we brought onto them" while burying us in the most lame, most-retarded TV programming in many, many years? I mean, Who's the biggest loser. Fucking what?! Are they for real?!
Every day though, more & more Americans are taking the time to inform themselves. Just look at this very board. I can remember it was just a short time ago when people were freaking out that I or anyone else dared to post a political topic or even dared to suggest that America was not the rosy, peachy, bastion of democracy and human rights she puts herself forth to be. Disclosures of hard truths were met with accusations of "Anti-Americanism". Heck, I can recall suggesting a book be read and the post was deleted... for recommending a book written by a former member of the State Dept. We've come a long way! And I think Americans have come a long way from just a few years ago. The fog is lifting, ...slowly but surely. Don't be so hard on your countrymen. They're playing with a handicap that you and I are not burdened with. Had we had the same blinders placed on us, who is to say it wouldn't have taken us longer to start figuring things out. Considering the burden they've had to bear, ...I think they're progressing pretty well, ...although there are still some that really make you want to give them a good shake at times.
I do agree with what you're saying. Although, in many ways, I think we've lost that healthy distrust of the federal government all these brilliant people like some of the Founding Fathers were warning us about. We've become a nation of obedient, flag-sucking, overweight semi-zombies who will accept anything that comes from the "leaders"... when it should be the other way around.
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It's not all about people buying too much home. In many cases, it was people refinancing their homes, homes that they had for years, and the mortgages comes up for renewal, ...and since the re-fi, interest rates rose to beyond what they could afford. When the market appraises a home at X, and lenders issue a mortgage based on a certain amount of equity in the property, ...if the value gets re-assessed at Y, the bank is coming for that home. When someone owes more for the house than what it can be sold for, ...I think the creator(s) of the economic policies that fostered such market instability cannot ber considered blameless.
Someone is always getting screwed, that's not the point. What I'm driving at is.. how intrusive should the govt. be in individual decisions? Free decision making, much the same as free speech, doesn't always result in the right decision. That being said, Americans don't generally want a govt as intrusive and or tax policies like socialist countries. We already have too many taxes and wasteful spending, making an inefficient govt bigger won't solve any of these problems.
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[...]That being said, Americans don't generally want a govt as intrusive and or tax policies like socialist countries.[...]
But that's the thing, we are taxed like in a socialist country without enjoying the services of an even REMOTELY socialist (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH COMMUNIST!) country. Everything you take part of, aside from defecating and peeing, is taxed. The house you buy is taxed. The furniture you buy is taxed. The food you buy is taxed. The clothes you buy are taxed. The train you take to work is taxed. The coffe you drink to be able to stay awake through your lame-ass job is taxed. Your wages are taxed (BIG TIME). Et fucking cetera.
Need I go on?
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But that's the thing, we are taxed like in a socialist country without enjoying the services of an even REMOTELY socialist (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH COMMUNIST!) country. Everything you take part of, aside from defecating and peeing, is taxed. The house you buy is taxed. The furniture you buy is taxed. The food you buy is taxed. The clothes you buy are taxed. The train you take to work is taxed. The coffe you drink to be able to stay awake through your lame-ass job is taxed. Your wages are taxed (BIG TIME). Et fucking cetera.
Need I go on?
More taxes won't translate into increased service. A more efficient use of the money would be better than turning the US into Canada.
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More taxes won't translate into increased service. A more efficient use of the money would be better than turning the US into Canada.
I agree they wouldn't, but that doesn't take away from the fact that taxes are supposed to finance the services the state, local and federal governments provide. For example, the taxes you pay to the state government tend, and in most cases do, to go toward creating, fixing and maintaining infraestructure as well as primary education. The local governments are supposed to clean up and police the streets, etc. The federal government... I have no friggin idea what they actually do with our money (aside from using it to killing other people). And they are, BY FAR, the ones who collect the most.
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More taxes won't translate into increased service. A more efficient use of the money would be better than turning the US into Canada.
Slappers post went right over your head. Hes not saying increase taxes......hes saying that you already pay enouhg taxes that should be getting you free services in socialist countries. There is an accounting of the provisions that you recieve there. Here we pay taxes on our taxes and have little to show for it but corporate bailouts and turning the Federal Treasury into a damn MORTGAGE company!!!
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Sure the practices are predatory but is Bush really responsible for someone being too stupid to realize they can't afford something? Maybe the gov should make credit cards illegal too and stop people from spending money they don't have.
Sort of. Predatory loan practices are illegal. Here's how Bush enabled the practice: He used federal law to pre-empt state oversight duties permitting the "wild west" approach to lending practices.
"...the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules."
"But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783_pf.html
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Sort of. Predatory loan practices are illegal. Here's how Bush enabled the practice: He used federal law to pre-empt state oversight duties permitting the "wild west" approach to lending practices.
"...the OCC invoked a clause from the 1863 National Bank Act to issue formal opinions preempting all state predatory lending laws, thereby rendering them inoperative. The OCC also promulgated new rules that prevented states from enforcing any of their own consumer protection laws against national banks. The federal government's actions were so egregious and so unprecedented that all 50 state attorneys general, and all 50 state banking superintendents, actively fought the new rules."
"But the unanimous opposition of the 50 states did not deter, or even slow, the Bush administration in its goal of protecting the banks. In fact, when my office opened an investigation of possible discrimination in mortgage lending by a number of banks, the OCC filed a federal lawsuit to stop the investigation."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021302783_pf.html
And people say that republicans want small government??? Heres another of his HUGE govt growth policies affect america and lead us to fascism....One concludes....REPUBLICANS support huge Govt!!!
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There hasn't been a true conservative in office for decades and decades.
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ozmo, your point is well taken, but without strict lending regulations in place, people who clearly couldn't purchase a home were not only given a chance to own a home, many left the closing with EXTRA cash in their pockets as well. who would turn down a home plus extra spending cash with ZERO risk ? if their payments escalated and were unable to make them...... they'd just walk away. leaving the financial institutions and the US tax payers to clean up the mess.
the banking crisis of the late 1920's and 1930s which led in The Great Depression, resulted from unregulated, unsupervised financial markets (similar to now) which can all too easily suffer catastrophic failure.
as the decades passed, that lesson was forgotten — and now we’re relearning it, the hard way.
bush & co. embraced the failed policies of the Depression era, only to repeat them.
NT
I think i see your point. It's the governments responsibility to, in some regard, protect people from themselves. Just as regulations were put in place to prevent the stock market collapse in the 1929, similar regulations must be maintained to prevent what just happened here int he housing and lending markets?