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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: shootfighter1 on March 28, 2008, 02:17:47 PM
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In an interview this week Obama is quoted as saying he favors raising the capital gains tax from its current rate of 15% to 25%. :o
This is a huge increase and another example of his idea of funding a larger government, impeding free markets, penalyzing investors and company owners (large and small) and redistribution of wealth. This is a very important quote that did not get enough attention in the last 2 days.
For those not familiar with Capital Gains Tax: This is a tax charged on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory assets. The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. Not all countries implement a capital gains tax and most have different rates of taxation for individuals and corporations.
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From U.S. News & World report:
March 28, 2008
As part of his "Tax Fairness for the Middle Class" plan, Barack Obama is in favor of nearly doubling the capital-gains tax rate from 15 percent to 28 percent. Leaving the fairness issue aside—as well as the impact of higher taxes on economic growth—the Obama plan could also be called a "Ways in Which Government Can Collect More Taxes to Pay for New Spending" plan, since Democratic candidates are all scrambling to figure out ways to plausibly pay for new healthcare, education, and infrastructure spending if elected.
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In Obamas push to give additional tax credits to the low and low middle class, he states he is increasing the already graduated incometax on the rich and investment taxes. The problem is that he is increasing taxes on much of the middle class. The problem is in how 'rich' is defined. If we are talking corporate executives and CEOs of large corporations, they earn a million or more per year. His tax policies will affect anyone who ownes stocks, funds and small companies! Thats bullshit. He is going to stick it to people who make over $70,000/yr and thats not right. If he wants to go after millionaires, then he must change his policies, otherwise hard working professionals, small business owners and investors are being penalyzed for good decisions, hard work and initiative. This goes for hard working tradesworkers too. I know several who make at least $70,000 or more and they bust their butt to do so...should they be penalyzed too?
This is not fair people!
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IMO,
The rich AND the middle class are going to have to shoulder the burden and get hit with taxes during a semi-recession - in conjunction with less borrowing - in order to turn around the deficit.
Yea, it'll suck. But the alternative? Shit, what is the alternative? Keep everything how it is and watch the dollar keep sliding as world confidence keeps fading as we keep borrowing a tril per year just to stay afloat?
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Bullshit (respectfully...I call bullshit). Stop the excessive gov spending, start weaning down military expenditures outside this country, and stop giving so much aid to countries that don't need it and stick their thumb at us anyway. Decreasing spending is much more effective than raising taxes 240. Also, stop the lopsided trade deficits.
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Decreasing spending is much more effective than raising taxes 240.
aagree 100%
but
both of them will keep up the spending. we might as well fund it in a way not called chinese loans.
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I think these enormous loans from other countries are putting us in a situation America has not seen before (in a very bad way).
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Democrats have had no more sense than a flock of geese. Hiking these taxes hurts Main Street, the most important investor class of all. Many senior citizens live entirely on dividend income alone; the middle class desperately needs its 401K and IRA money like never before because Social Security is in a ditch (thanks to the Democrats changing the law in the ‘60s so it could, for the first time, get its mitts on Social Security funds to spend on pork and to buy votes).
The Democratic candidates, in their blinkered concretism, stubbornly refuse to acknowledge human behavior. Investors sit on assets, including stocks, rather than sell and pay the capital gains tax, because capital gains taxes are voluntary. You don’t have to pay until you sell. Higher capital gains taxes keep frozen all sorts of economic activity. Hike taxes, you also get tax avoidance schemes going viral too–and massive loopholes written into the colossally inefficient tax code, a big tangled pile of barbed wire as it is. But we’d rather be a nation of tax lawyers and accountants. Both Obama and Clinton want to make it even more confusing with gimmicky credits that won’t buy you a bag of groceries for a month.
Obama and Clinton want to hurt Main Street with more taxes. “Why is Barack Obama so hell-bent on pursuing policies that would wreck America’s retirement savings?” asks Ryan Ellis, tax policy director at Americans for Tax Reform. ”Because, by and large, he doesn’t have any skin in the game.”
How so? Obama is not part of the investor class because he’s reported no dividend income on his tax returns from 2001 to 2004, and just $2,754 in dividend income on his 2005 tax return and $1,188 on his 2006 return (Clinton has yet to release her returns).
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In an interview this week Obama is quoted as saying he favors raising the capital gains tax from its current rate of 15% to 25%. :o
Fuck Obama! >:(
If he wants more of my money, why doesn't he get a gun and try to take it like the rest of the ****** do? >:(
How 'bout CUTTING SPENDING? That's what is needed, not more money flowing from the private sector to the public.
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If he wants more of my money, why doesn't he get a gun and try to take it like the rest of the ****** do? >:(
...cause he's a democrat and they believe in taking away all the guns. ;D
240 knipfit in ...
3...
2...
1...
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Yay class warfare!
Yay entitlement!
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Bindare, good points. I saw the same reasoning against this plan used by several economist in searching the net about Obama and increasing capital gains.
Its a complete fallacy that the rich are the only ones who have stocks and investments. Your right Bindare, many retired workers live off their dividends and investments. We should now penalyze them and people who are taking risks investing in new companies...how in the hell is this fair or make sense? These issues need to be brought to the general public, even if people like Obama (as I do) we can't vote for him because of his far left and quasi-social agenda for this country.
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In an interview this week Obama is quoted as saying he favors raising the capital gains tax from its current rate of 15% to 25%. :o
This is a huge increase and another example of his idea of funding a larger government, impeding free markets, penalyzing investors and company owners (large and small) and redistribution of wealth. This is a very important quote that did not get enough attention in the last 2 days.
For those not familiar with Capital Gains Tax: This is a tax charged on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory assets. The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. Not all countries implement a capital gains tax and most have different rates of taxation for individuals and corporations.
Good grief. We really can't afford this guy. :-\
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Good grief. We really can't afford this guy. :-\
Told ya. :P
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Told ya. :P
Yep. You did. :)
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Sigh,
I'm not very excited anymore........I wasn't excited to begin with. But still......
I'd like to hear more on this, but as it stands this does not bode well for Obama IMO and does not strengthen my desire to vote for him becuase i don't want the repubs to keep power.
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I don't want total republican power either, there needs to be a balance (dems have control in congress). This hurts anyone trying to start businesses or invest, which usually leads to more productivity. It makes no sense.
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Doesn't sound like Obama will be a friend of the business community at all.
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Doesn't sound like Obama will be a friend of the business community at all.
No it doesn't but i need to hear more.
Raising it 10%-15% will hurt many people.
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There has to be pain to make change. Somebody has got to give. Well middle and lower have nothing to give anymore, so the only place to look is to the increasingly rich.
Its like starting a diet. Its all good to talk about it,but when your 3 days in and would knaw off your foot for a peice of bread....this is where you make your stand.
Cant get anymore blood from the middle and lower, so whatre you gonna do.? Obama has already talked about tax cuts from unwanted projects (War) for the most part but its a package deal......lotsa ways to make it work.
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There has to be pain to make change. Somebody has got to give. Well middle and lower have nothing to give anymore, so the only place to look is to the increasingly rich.
Its like starting a diet. Its all good to talk about it,but when your 3 days in and would knaw off your foot for a peice of bread....this is where you make your stand.
Cant get anymore blood from the middle and lower, so whatre you gonna do.? Obama has already talked about tax cuts from unwanted projects (War) for the most part but its a package deal......lotsa ways to make it work.
People at the low end of the income scale pay little, if any income taxes.
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People at the low end of the income scale pay little, if any income taxes.
But they're getting a stimulus check.
Expect a big surge in the sale of alcohol, cigarettes, and lottery tickets.
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But they're getting a stimulus check.
Expect a big surge in the sale of alcohol, cigarettes, and lottery tickets.
Yeah. Those same people will get the Earned Income Tax Credit. I don't fault them at all for getting whatever they can, but the contention they are being burdened to help "the rich" is just wrong.
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People at the low end of the income scale pay little, if any income taxes.
Exactly my point. Govt cant pick on em, they have nothing left. Middle class has been supporting the economy for a while, but they are being erased by the messes created recently.
Only money left to go get is the people making 70k and above. (Which includes me)
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Yeah. Those same people will get the Earned Income Tax Credit. I don't fault them at all for getting whatever they can, but the contention they are being burdened to help "the rich" is just wrong.
The Earned Income Tax Credit is a stupid move by Bush.
If you give a hungry man a loaf of bread to eat today he'll still be hungry tomorrow.
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The Earned Income Tax Credit is a stupid move by Bush.
If you give a hungry man a loaf of bread to eat today he'll still be hungry tomorrow.
You know who enacted a law to cap welfare to 2 yrs?? Until then people were living off welfare for years upon years with no trouble. It was Bill clinton in the 90's!! I remember low lifes being so pissed off about that!! A democrat tried to fix the system. Repubs have done nothing like this as far as i know.
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The Earned Income Tax Credit is a stupid move by Bush.
If you give a hungry man a loaf of bread to eat today he'll still be hungry tomorrow.
Did Bush increase the EIC? I know Clinton did. I actually don't have a problem with it, because it does help people who are actually working.
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The Earned Income Tax Credit is a stupid move by Bush.
If you give a hungry man a loaf of bread to eat today he'll still be hungry tomorrow.
That's why Jesus really didn't feed 5000 people fish. He just gave them all fishing poles.
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You know who enacted a law to cap welfare to 2 yrs?? Until then people were living off welfare for years upon years with no trouble. It was Bill clinton in the 90's!! I remember low lifes being so pissed off about that!! A democrat tried to fix the system. Repubs have done nothing like this as far as i know.
Actually, War-Horse, I think it was Tommy Thompson from Wisconsin that came up with that plan. It was Clinton that took a Republican idea and made it his own. I believe I recall Dick Morris talking to one of the talking heads on Fox News about this.
Brilliant move on Clinton's part and I really don't care who came up with the idea.
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Did Bush increase the EIC? I know Clinton did. I actually don't have a problem with it, because it does help people who are actually working.
I think there was an article either in the Wall Street Journal or National Review Online about this.
Something about a similar action being done around 1975 and it didn't do much to stimulate the economy. At least not in the way they hoped for.
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I think there was an article either in the Wall Street Journal or National Review Online about this.
Something about a similar action being done around 1975 and it didn't do much to stimulate the economy. At least not in the way they hoped for.
Is the EIC designed to stimulate the economy? I don't really view it as a tax credit/cut so much as an attempt to help working families at the lower end of the scale.
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Is the EIC designed to stimulate the economy? I don't really view it as a tax credit/cut so much as an attempt to help working families at the lower end of the scale.
It was an "emergency" stimulus package pushed by Bush and altered by that numbnuts Reid in the Senate.
Funny thing is a recent news report came out stating that people are NOT going to go shopping with it.
They plan to either pay off bills with it or put it in savings.
The rest of the money will end up in Mexico and South America.
BTW, it cost the IRS 42 MILLION dollars to send out letters notifying you that you will or will not get a check. I didn't get one. I make too much money (whatever the fvck that means).
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Funny thing is a recent news report came out stating that people are NOT going to go shopping with it.
They plan to either pay off bills with it or put it in savings.
If they pay off bills, then that $300 is given to companies with accounts payable, and they have new income.
If they save it, a bank now has new working capital to explore new opportunities.
If you do anything but mattress it, you're stimulating the economy. If that $ is being spent in any way, it's boosting our GDP.
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If they pay off bills, then that $300 is given to companies with accounts payable, and they have new income.
If they save it, a bank now has new working capital to explore new opportunities.
If you do anything but mattress it, you're stimulating the economy. If that $ is being spent in any way, it's boosting our GDP.
I believe the hope was that the money ended up in stores so Americans could buy more shit they don't need.
Personally, I think it'll go to McDonalds, booze, cigarettes, and lottery tickets.
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I believe the hope was that the money ended up in stores so Americans could buy more shit they don't need.
Personally, I think it'll go to McDonalds, booze, cigarettes, and lottery tickets.
LOL... IMO they'd be most happy if people threw it into the stock market so they coudl bail out a few more firms, get your $30 stock down to $2 so you sell it, then balloon it back up and get rich off your dime.
Most people will buy themselves something nice for summer and use the rest as 'kicking around' money. 300 isn't a lot of money, just a little something to spend.
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Your right Bindare, many retired workers live off their dividends and investments. We should now penalyze them and people who are taking risks investing in new companies...how in the hell is this fair or make sense?
It is innaccurate. Obama infact proposes NO taxes for retirees making less than $50K /yr, and he has announced he plan to implement incentives for those investing in new companies and new technologies that will push the country forward.
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Thats taxes on income jag. Capital gains and dividend taxes apply to all now and I can't see that changing, except being raised as Obama has stated. Incentives to invest are already there...low taxes! The more new companies that are formed, the more new revenue sources for the gov and the more jobs. In the discussions in the past week, most analysts have criticized Obama's ideas markets and business. New technologies are a different category, that he may do, but it has nothing to do with stocks & other investments.
To quote Beach's post:
It’s true that lower tax rates have been a huge boon to shareholders—but most of them are not rich. The latest polls show that 52 percent of Americans own stock and thus benefit directly from lower capital gains and dividend taxes. Reduced tax rates on dividends also triggered a huge jump in the number of companies paying out dividends. As the National Bureau of Economic Research put it, “The surge in regular dividend payments after the 2003 reform is unprecedented in recent years.” Dividend income is up nearly 50 percent since the 2003 tax cut.
The same phenomenon occurred with the capital gains tax, which is essentially a voluntary tax because asset owners can avoid it by simply holding onto their stock, home, or business. This “lock-in” effect, as it is called, can be economically inefficient, since owners have a tax incentive to keep poor investments, rather than drawing out the cash and putting it into assets that are more productive. When the capital gains tax is cut, people unlock their assets and reinvest in other enterprises.
The 1997 tax reform, passed under President Clinton, reduced the capital gains tax rate from 28 percent to 20 percent, and taxable capital gains nearly doubled over the next three years. The 2003 reform brought the rate down to 15 percent, and between 2002 and 2005 there was a 154 percent increase in capital gains reported as income.
This explosion in realized gains cannot be explained only by the rise in the stock market, which averaged just 13 percent annually between 2003 and 2005. Capital gains tax receipts also far outpaced the revenues that the government’s static models predicted. Between 2003 and 2007, actual tax receipts exceeded expectations by $207 billion.
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The worlds next superpower China:
Flat 10% of capital gains taxed with traded equities being exempt
World's next upcoming economic superpower India:
India
Equities held for at least one year have no capital gains taxes. However short term capital gain from equities held for less than one year, is taxed at 15% (Increased from 10% to 15% after Budget 2008-09) This is applicable only for transactions that attract Securities Transaction Tax (STT).
Interesting that both have a low capital gains tax policy and their economies are booming. Low capital gains provide incentives to investing and new business.
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Interesting that both have a low capital gains tax policy and their economies are booming. Low capital gains provide incentives to investing and new business.
Their countries do not have economic policies presided over by GWB. Yours does.
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Can anyone find where Obama details the capital gains tax increase?
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Their countries do not have economic policies presided over by GWB. Yours does.
BOOOOMMMMM!!!! 8) Amen Girl. The new capitialist countries are china and india...making huge bank, while our system takes a dive in the shitter.
This is all intentional...anyone could see it. Or else the think tanks would do something about it..
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In an interview this week Obama is quoted as saying he favors raising the capital gains tax from its current rate of 15% to 25%. :o
This is a huge increase and another example of his idea of funding a larger government, impeding free markets, penalyzing investors and company owners (large and small) and redistribution of wealth. This is a very important quote that did not get enough attention in the last 2 days.
For those not familiar with Capital Gains Tax: This is a tax charged on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory assets. The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. Not all countries implement a capital gains tax and most have different rates of taxation for individuals and corporations.
As long as we can get an equivalent savings on capital LOSSES, it's fine to move from 15% to 18-20%.
Actually, though, decreasing the size of the federal government as per my plan would eventually cut everyone's tax rate by about one-half.
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Jag, unfortunately your right. GWB did not help our economic situation...as capital gains & dividend taxes are only 1 small part of the overall economy.
Tre, absolutely. Wise man. We are in complete agreement. The gov was never supposed to be this big or spend (and borrow) this much. Thats why I voted for Ron Paul in the primary.
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In an interview this week Obama is quoted as saying he favors raising the capital gains tax from its current rate of 15% to 25%.
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For those not familiar with Capital Gains Tax: This is a tax charged on capital gains,
the market needs to go HIGHER for most to realize a capital gain. the bush/republican recession is causing americans to lose their CAPITAL. ::)
for those not familiar with Capital: this is the money you have saved in your 401k....which is being depleted daily as the market heads lower !
NT
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the market needs to go HIGHER for most to realize a capital gain. the bush/republican recession is causing americans to lose their CAPITAL. ::)
for those not familiar with Capital: this is the money you have saved in your 401k....which is being depleted daily as the market heads lower !
NT
Sad but true.
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Can anyone find where Obama details the capital gains tax increase?
I heard him talk about it on 'The View' within the past week. All the other hosts looked at Barbara as if she's the only one who needed to be concerned.
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I heard him talk about it on 'The View' within the past week. All the other hosts looked at Barbara as if she's the only one who needed to be concerned.
It's the details that are important here. Is there a income level that gets the penalty? Example if i'm making under 100K will i still get the capital gains tax increase on my investments?