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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: The Coach on April 16, 2008, 04:19:38 PM
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Barack Obama declined to condemn Jimmy Carter Wednesday for Carter’s decision to meet with Hamas but said he supports diplomacy with Iran because it has recognized status internationally.
In a meeting with Jewish community leaders in Philadelphia, the Democratic presidential candidate stopped short of condemning the meeting between the former U.S. president and the designated terror group. However, he said direct talks with the Islamic Republic have practical benefits that are in Israel’s interest.
“Hamas is not a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization,” Obama said, explaining the distinction. “They obviously have developed great influence within the Palestinian territories, but they do not control the apparatus of power; they are not legitimately recognized as a state. They do not have a seat in the United Nations. And so I think there is a very clear distinction; not necessarily in terms of some of the odious rhetoric that comes out of Iran’s leadership versus Hamas’ leadership. But there is a distinction in terms of their status within the international community.
Obama has frequently been taunted by his rivals for suggesting as president he’d sit down with America’s enemies without preconditions. He attempted to clarify Wednesday that he would go into meetings with Iranian leaders with a “very clear set of objectives and a very clear set of demands.”
Among those, he said he would press the country to stop pursuing nuclear weapons, stop funding Hezbollah and Hamas and stop threatening Israel.
“My interest in meeting with Iran is practical; it is not based on my assessment of who they are or my judgment about their values, but rather it is a practical assessment in terms of how we can best achieve our ultimate goal, which is an Iran that is not threatening its neighbors, is not threatening Israel, does not possess nuclear weapons, is not funding organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas,” he said.
“They may not agree to any one or all of those demands. But, by having made them directly, it becomes much more difficult for them, I think, to posture on the international stage and it then positions us to be able to obtain the kinds of assistance from potential allies that we need,” Obama continued.
The Illinois senator spoke as Carter is traveling in Israel ahead of meetings with top Hamas leaders, scheduled to take place Thursday and Friday in Egypt and Syria respectively. On Tuesday, Carter met with another Hamas leader, senior politician Nasser Shaer, in the West Bank town of Ramallah.
His trip has been roundly condemned by the Bush administration, U.S. lawmakers and Israeli officials.
Back in Philadelphia, Obama, who is being eyed for a possible future Carter endorsement, further discussed his views for a two-state solution between Israel and the Palestinians, saying both sides are going to have to cede ground.
“Israelis are going to … have to concede enough territorially that you got a coherent Palestinian state, not one that is just a state in name, but one that is functional, that works,” he said.
The candidate also refused to say whether he thought Jerusalem should be divided and East Jerusalem given as a capital for a future Palestinian state.
“I believe this is a decision that has to be made by the parties, not by the United States. But let’s be clear. Israel I think has a historic claim on Jerusalem, and I think that obviously there are sacred sites in the old city that are central to, not just Judaism but also Islam and Christianity. I think it is very important for us to find a way in which all those claims are respected. And this is something that I think is very important for the parties themselves to decide on. But I believe that it is not an acceptable option for Jerusalem to be severed from Israel along the lines of the 1967 border,” he said.
Obama closed his meeting by saying he did not think his relationship with his retiring pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who among other things, has accused Israel of state-sponsored terrorism against the Palestinians, would hurt him in the general election.
He added that he thought some of the discomfort people have about him has to do with “scurrilous e-mails,” references to his middle name, Hussein, and his race. But he said he has a long history of cooperation with the Jewish community.
“My links to the Jewish community are not political. They preceded my entry into politics,” adding that he’d been influenced by liberal Jewish writers, philosophers and friends.
“There is a kinship and a sense of shared community that predates my political career and will extend beyond this particular election. Know that I will be there for you, just as I believe that you will be there for me,” he said.
The response from several in the crowd was warm, with Pennsylvania state Rep. Josh Shapiro, an Obama supporter, saying that he thought Obama had adequately responded to issues that concern the Jewish community.
However, Hillary Clinton supporter Nancy Gordon, who chairs the Philadelphia chapter of the Joint Action Committee for Political Affairs, a Jewish organization, said she was not satisfied with Obama’s claims that he hadn’t been aware of Wright’s sermon just after Sept. 11, 2001, in which Wright said the terror attack on the U.S. was an example of the “chickens coming home to roost.”
Gordon said Clinton had her backing because “her commitment to the Jewish community has been steadfast and knowledgeable. His experience on these issues does not compare to hers. You could tell that this is not as much in his core as he says it is.”
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/16/obama-attempts-to-reconcile-conflicting-positions-on-hamas-iran-diplomacy/
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Joe, you keep counting the chickens before the eggs hatch.
The debates change everything, you know that.
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dorian yates way more intense than ronnie
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Joe, you keep counting the chickens before the eggs hatch.
The debates change everything, you know that.
Hillary and Obama should come on here to hammer it out.............it's going to be the same damn thing just see who can own who with insults and bashing.
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Im more worried about gas prices, our shitty economy than Carter meeting folks over seas WHo gives a shit. Thats the problem with American Politics. People talk about the shit thats NOT important and ignore the Real Issues
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Hillary and Obama should come on here to hammer it out.............it's going to be the same damn thing just see who can own who with insults and bashing.
Correct, Hilary and Obama suck.
But you can't convince people that McCain is GOOD just because the others are BAD.
McCain is making a lot of mistakes when speaking.
Fox News calls them "Senior moments".
Tell us why you're NOT worried about McCain's age.
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Hamas deserve respect. Carter is showing the right spirit by dialoguing with them.
Obama needs to show more respect to Hamas. Obama's Kenyan family are all Muslim.
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Could have started this on the proper board.....did you drop a pink dumbell on your head?
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Im more worried about gas prices, our shitty economy than Carter meeting folks over seas WHo gives a shit. Thats the problem with American Politics. People talk about the shit thats NOT important and ignore the Real Issues
Were the dems supposed to fix that when they took over congress?? MMmmmmmmmm!
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Im more worried about gas prices, our shitty economy than Carter meeting folks over seas WHo gives a shit. Thats the problem with American Politics. People talk about the shit thats NOT important and ignore the Real Issues
Well, then McCain might not be the man for you.
Last month, he said the economy was strong.
Two days ago, he said it was in a recession.
Mccain has promised to keep Bush economic policy - you know, the one that led to these gas prices, deficit, and war spending.
It's simple. If you're happy with how things are, choose Mccain.
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hardcore
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Were the dems supposed to fix that when they took over congress?? MMmmmmmmmm!
Joe, be honest with people.
They TRIED to stop the war spending, and Bush vetoed it.
We wouldn't be spending $12 BIL a month, except for Bush told the cameras the dems didn't care about our soldiers.
He politicized their lives, Joe. Defend that.
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no ifs
no butts
plain hardcore training
dorian style!
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Barack Obama declined to condemn Jimmy Carter Wednesday for Carter’s decision to meet with Hamas but said he supports diplomacy with Iran because it has recognized status internationally.
In a meeting with Jewish community leaders in Philadelphia, the Democratic presidential candidate stopped short of condemning the meeting between the former U.S. president and the designated terror group. However, he said direct talks with the Islamic Republic have practical benefits that are in Israel’s interest.
“Hamas is not a state. Hamas is a terrorist organization,” Obama said, explaining the distinction. “They obviously have developed great influence within the Palestinian territories, but they do not control the apparatus of power; they are not legitimately recognized as a state. They do not have a seat in the United Nations. And so I think there is a very clear distinction; not necessarily in terms of some of the odious rhetoric that comes out of Iran’s leadership versus Hamas’ leadership. But there is a distinction in terms of their status within the international community.
Obama has frequently been taunted by his rivals for suggesting as president he’d sit down with America’s enemies without preconditions. He attempted to clarify Wednesday that he would go into meetings with Iranian leaders with a “very clear set of objectives and a very clear set of demands.”
Among those, he said he would press the country to stop pursuing nuclear weapons, stop funding Hezbollah and Hamas and stop threatening Israel.
“My interest in meeting with Iran is practical; it is not based on my assessment of who they are or my judgment about their values, but rather it is a practical assessment in terms of how we can best achieve our ultimate goal, which is an Iran that is not threatening its neighbors, is not threatening Israel, does not possess nuclear weapons, is not funding organizations like Hezbollah and Hamas,” he said.
“They may not agree to any one or all of those demands. But, by having made them directly, it becomes much more difficult for them, I think, to posture on the international stage and it then positions us to be able to obtain the kinds of assistance from potential allies that we need,” Obama continued.
The Illinois senator spoke as Carter is traveling in Israel ahead of meetings with top Hamas leaders, scheduled to take place Thursday and Friday in Egypt and Syria respectively. On Tuesday, Carter met with another Hamas leader, senior politician Nasser Shaer, in the West Bank town of Ramallah.
His trip has been roundly condemned by the Bush administration, U.S. lawmakers and Israeli officials.
Back in Philadelphia, Obama, who is being eyed for a possible future Carter endorsement, further discussed his views for a two-state solution between Israel and the Palestinians, saying both sides are going to have to cede ground.
“Israelis are going to … have to concede enough territorially that you got a coherent Palestinian state, not one that is just a state in name, but one that is functional, that works,” he said.
The candidate also refused to say whether he thought Jerusalem should be divided and East Jerusalem given as a capital for a future Palestinian state.
“I believe this is a decision that has to be made by the parties, not by the United States. But let’s be clear. Israel I think has a historic claim on Jerusalem, and I think that obviously there are sacred sites in the old city that are central to, not just Judaism but also Islam and Christianity. I think it is very important for us to find a way in which all those claims are respected. And this is something that I think is very important for the parties themselves to decide on. But I believe that it is not an acceptable option for Jerusalem to be severed from Israel along the lines of the 1967 border,” he said.
Obama closed his meeting by saying he did not think his relationship with his retiring pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who among other things, has accused Israel of state-sponsored terrorism against the Palestinians, would hurt him in the general election.
He added that he thought some of the discomfort people have about him has to do with “scurrilous e-mails,” references to his middle name, Hussein, and his race. But he said he has a long history of cooperation with the Jewish community.
“My links to the Jewish community are not political. They preceded my entry into politics,” adding that he’d been influenced by liberal Jewish writers, philosophers and friends.
“There is a kinship and a sense of shared community that predates my political career and will extend beyond this particular election. Know that I will be there for you, just as I believe that you will be there for me,” he said.
The response from several in the crowd was warm, with Pennsylvania state Rep. Josh Shapiro, an Obama supporter, saying that he thought Obama had adequately responded to issues that concern the Jewish community.
However, Hillary Clinton supporter Nancy Gordon, who chairs the Philadelphia chapter of the Joint Action Committee for Political Affairs, a Jewish organization, said she was not satisfied with Obama’s claims that he hadn’t been aware of Wright’s sermon just after Sept. 11, 2001, in which Wright said the terror attack on the U.S. was an example of the “chickens coming home to roost.”
Gordon said Clinton had her backing because “her commitment to the Jewish community has been steadfast and knowledgeable. His experience on these issues does not compare to hers. You could tell that this is not as much in his core as he says it is.”
http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/16/obama-attempts-to-reconcile-conflicting-positions-on-hamas-iran-diplomacy/
Obama's obviously not going to condemn a former Democratic President of the US and neither is Hillary and no one is going to expect him to do it.
Coach, please get your head out of your ass. Obama clearly stated that Hama's was a terrorist organization. What more can be said.
The election won't hinge on Isreal or Iran as people care more about the high cost of gasoline and rising prices
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Correct, Hilary and Obama suck.
But you can't convince people that McCain is GOOD just because the others are BAD.
McCain is making a lot of mistakes when speaking.
Fox News calls them "Senior moments".
Tell us why you're NOT worried about McCain's age.
Little fact........something like 1 in 5 dems will vote for McCain if Hillary wins...........1 in 10 are more likely to vote for McCain if Obama wins.
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joe, you're an idiot. a complete and utter, drooling moron. a man who should not be allowed within 50 feet of a voting booth because in the off-chance that your malfunctioning brain doesn't short-circuit while you're attempting to vote and cause you to injure yourself, you display nothing even RESEMBLING the cognitive function necessary to make a responsible choice for the president.
you're ripping on Obama because he'll meet with the leader of an enemy nation, eh? i'm assuming you think reagan shouldn't have met with Gorbachev or Nixon with the leader of china? right?
...right? ::)
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Where's Lee Harvey Oswald when you need him ???
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Little fact........something like 1 in 5 dems will vote for McCain if Hillary wins...........1 in 10 are more likely to vote for McCain if Obama wins.
Those poll results are quite common.
Again, you're focusing on the dems. Why? Do you come home and night and worry what your neightbors are having for dinner? Or do you make your own dinner?
Do you worry more about your own lawn, or about the garbage in your neigbors yard?
You didn't address Mccain's age - does it worry you?
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joe, you're an idiot. a complete and utter, drooling moron. a man who should not be allowed within 50 feet of a voting booth because in the off-chance that your malfunctioning brain doesn't short-circuit while you're attempting to vote and cause you to injure yourself, you display nothing even RESEMBLING the cognitive function necessary to make a responsible choice for the president.
you're ripping on Obama because he'll meet with the leader of an enemy nation, eh? i'm assuming you think reagan shouldn't have met with Gorbachev or Nixon with the leader of china? right?
...right? ::)
Joe,
Was Reagan wrong to negotiate with the Russian heads of state?
They were our bitter enemies, yet he used diplomacy, and we won as a result.
Even though they were backing terrorism and armies attacking our interests - Reagan still met with them.
Why shouldn't our leader meet with our enemy leaders?
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you're ripping on Obama because he'll meet with the leader of an enemy nation, eh? i'm assuming you think reagan shouldn't have met with Gorbachev or Nixon with the leader of china? right?
...right? ::)
America needs to try diplomacy. in Vietnam and the middle east the country is getting owned in wars. stop fighting demons and losing, show respect.
essentially Obama knows this. he is from Muslim background. he knows that Islam must be respected.
the war has failed.
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joe, you're an idiot. a complete and utter, drooling moron. a man who should not be allowed within 50 feet of a voting booth because in the off-chance that your malfunctioning brain doesn't short-circuit while you're attempting to vote and cause you to injure yourself, you display nothing even RESEMBLING the cognitive function necessary to make a responsible choice for the president.
you're ripping on Obama because he'll meet with the leader of an enemy nation, eh? i'm assuming you think reagan shouldn't have met with Gorbachev or Nixon with the leader of china? right?
...right? ::)
Apples and oranges.
The liberal mind is filled with such immature arguments based on false comparisons.
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diplomacy is not a dirty word. in fact it worked surprisingly well in MANY situations.
do you guys think the only countries run by ruthless dictators are the ones in bush's targets (iraq, afghanistan, syria, etc)? please. saudi arabia exports more terrorists than any other nation and we meet with them constantly. pakistan, uzbekistan, the list goes on.
in fact, it'd be nice if we tried diplomacy more often. separating the world into "good guys" and "bad guys" is one of those neoconservative trademark signs of stupidity that is the reason so much of the world sees the United States as selfish, imperialistic, and not to be trusted.
Apples and oranges.
The liberal mind is filled with such immature arguments based on false comparisons.
you're lucky your name comes from one of my favorite books or i'd have half a mind to slap some sense into you. ;D
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But you can't convince people that McCain is GOOD just because the others are BAD.
It's the lesser of two evils....and well, it's Joe. ::)
McCain is making a lot of mistakes when speaking.
Fox News calls them "Senior moments".
Tell us why you're NOT worried about McCain's age.
Like Bush doesn't make mistakes? Doesn't Coach support that moron? McCain makes less mistakes, and he's a republican...all in all, that's good enough for The Coach.
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you're lucky your name comes from one of my favorite books or i'd have half a mind to slap some sense into you. ;D
Hahahah
"Don't Panic"
Love your taste in films
HATE your politics. >:(
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diplomacy is not a dirty word. in fact it worked surprisingly well in MANY situations.
do you guys think the only countries run by ruthless dictators are the ones in bush's targets (iraq, afghanistan, syria, etc)? please. saudi arabia exports more terrorists than any other nation and we meet with them constantly. pakistan, uzbekistan, the list goes on.
in fact, it'd be nice if we tried diplomacy more often.
good post but you must realize that these 'terrorists' exported are as a direct result of Americans murdering innocents everyday in the Middle East and meddling in the affairs of Muslims.
they are freedom fighters in their cultures, trying to free the country from American invaders and intervention.
If America tried diplocacy and real respect for Islam then these people you call terrorist would not exist
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good post but you must realize that these 'terrorists' exported are as a direct result of Americans murdering innocents everyday in the Middle East and meddling in the affairs of Muslims.
they are freedom fighters in their cultures, trying to free the country from American invaders and intervention.
If America tried diplocacy and real respect for Islam then these people you call terrorist would not exist
don't get ahead of yourself.
osama bin laden is not a "freedom fighter" nor has he ever been. he is a saudi supremacist whose main complaints were that the united states had soldiers in mecca and madina, and that the saudi government didn't pay his family for construction. his main concern has always been himself, right on down to the oil under saudi arabia's sand.
not that there aren't those who FOLLOW bin laden, et al, for other reasons, but by and large they aren't freedom fighters.
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joe, you're an idiot. a complete and utter, drooling moron. a man who should not be allowed within 50 feet of a voting booth because in the off-chance that your malfunctioning brain doesn't short-circuit while you're attempting to vote and cause you to injure yourself, you display nothing even RESEMBLING the cognitive function necessary to make a responsible choice for the president.
you're ripping on Obama because he'll meet with the leader of an enemy nation, eh? i'm assuming you think reagan shouldn't have met with Gorbachev or Nixon with the leader of china? right?
...right? ::)
Now that's a bitch slap, Magoo. Joe needs to vote, but he also needs to edumacate himself beyond the personalities involved to the issues being discussed. The strength of his opinions/convictions seem to be inversely proportional to his actual political knowledge!? A scary combination and, here in Canada, is piped as an American cliche. I'm glad there are some of you to counterbalance such tendencies. :-\
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don't get ahead of yourself.
osama bin laden is not a "freedom fighter" nor has he ever been. he is a saudi supremacist whose main complaints were that the united states had soldiers in mecca and madina, and that the saudi government didn't pay his family for construction. his main concern has always been himself, right on down to the oil under saudi arabia's sand.
not that there aren't those who FOLLOW bin laden, et al, for other reasons, but by and large they aren't freedom fighters.
we actually funded bin laden in the 80s to fight against the russians. there is some evidence that relationship extended well into the 90s as well.
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we actually funded bin laden in the 80s to fight against the russians. there is some evidence that relationship extended well into the 90s as well.
Hahahaha, oh brother.
"the truth is out there"
Hey, don't you just cringe when you think Rambo was fighting with the Taliban in part III? ;D
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osama bin laden is not a "freedom fighter" nor has he ever been. he is a saudi supremacist whose main complaints were that the united states had soldiers in mecca and madina, and that the saudi government didn't pay his family for construction. his main concern has always been himself, right on down to the oil under saudi arabia's sand.
not that there aren't those who FOLLOW bin laden, et al, for other reasons, but by and large they aren't freedom fighters.
You say allt his about Osama yet you have probably never even set foot in an Eastern land. you probably know nothing of Muslim culture and Osama's fearless fighting against the Russians, his idealism and dedication to Islam. instead you beleive the propaganda that you are fed.
he has been a freedom fighter , fighting agression and meddlers in Muslim affairs for decades. he is a freedom fighter and hero to many in the Middle East , this you people need to realize. he is a hero because he fights the people who are blowing up schools and hospitals, who torture and humilate Muslim prisoners , who demonize Islam. you need to wake up and see the murder being perpetrated against women and children all in the name of DEMOCRACY (actually all about stealing Muslim's resources and meddling)
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Hahahaha, oh brother.
I used to laugh at things like that too. It is much easier to laugh at things you don't understand than to learn more about them.
The US funded the mujahadeen in the 80s in a proxy war against Russian incursion into afghanistan. We gave them money, training, weapons, and intel, and they were able to prevent russia from taking afghanistan and the valuable caspian oil reserves.
The leader of the mujahadeen was osama bin laden. This is old news, readily admitted public record.
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Now that's a bitch slap, Magoo. Joe needs to vote, but he also needs to edumacate himself beyond the personalities involved to the issues being discussed. The strength of his opinions/convictions seem to be inversely proportional to his actual political knowledge!? A scary combination and, here in Canada, is piped as an American cliche. I'm glad there are some of you to counterbalance such tendencies. :-\
joe is one of those guys who listens to hannity or savage and maybe reads an issue of the weekly standard and then just parrots the most inflammatory talking points. it's downright depressing because he does it so often you KNOW that every time he starts one of these threads some part of his head is going "oh my god i'm a genius, just wait until these libs see what i've got!!" only to find out he's screwed the pooch again.
he doesn't even come across like a halfway competent conservative windbag, it's just out and out ignorance. i mean, props to him for having passion for politics, but like you said that's not helpful when you're more passionate than educated about it.
it'd be one thing if it was another field like sports or music or something. dumbasses who espouse dumbassery thinking they're experts on movies or ancient philosophy are annoying, but this is talking about salient things that matter. guys like joe vote and have an effect on policy decisions and the direction my country moves in, the mere thought of which worries me deeply.
i'm getting off track, though. the point is, joe's dumb and obama is 100% correct to be willing to open up communication between the united states and iran, just as we have with almost EVERY dictator at one point or another.
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You say allt his about Osama yet you have probably never even set foot in an Eastern land. you probably know nothing of Muslim culture and Osama's fearless fighting against the Russians, his idealism and dedication to Islam. instead you beleive the propaganda that you are fed.
he has been a freedom fighter , fighting agression and meddlers in Muslim affairs for decades. he is a freedom fighter and hero to many in the Middle East , this you people need to realize. he is a hero because he fights the people who are blowing up schools and hospitals, who torture and humilate Muslim prisoners , who demonize Islam. you need to wake up and see the murder being perpetrated against women and children all in the name of DEMOCRACY (actually all about stealing Muslim's resources and meddling)
i have never set foot there, but i know much of islamic culture and have read/heard bin ladens diatribes without western editing. he is not a freedom fighter of islam.
osama does not care about palestine, he calls shiites "dogs" and has no problem eliminating iran, as well as his deep and profound hatred of saddam hussein (the secular leader). osama is NOT a freedom fighter, he's a saudi sunni with selfish concerns that help him manipulate the desperate. sorry.
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I used to laugh at things like that too. It is much easier to laugh at things you don't understand than to learn more about them.
the CIA funded Osama when they were as usual meddling in the affairs of the Muslims. what they didn;t expect is that he was playing them too. he took their help - they supply the positions of Russian targets and weapons - and then when he had driven out the Russians he turned the barrel on them.
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you're ripping on Obama because he'll meet with the leader of an enemy nation, eh? i'm assuming you think reagan shouldn't have met with Gorbachev or Nixon with the leader of china? right?
...right? ::)
No, I'm ripping on Obama because basically he's backing Carters trip with a meeting with the head honcho of hamas, a terrorist organization. In fact, I will rip on him as well if he meets with Mamoud (can't spell the midgets last name) because it's Iran that is supplying the arms to kill our troops, why would have seek diplomacy with someone who said he wants to wipe the US and Israel off the face of the map and said the holocaust never happend?
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osama does not care about palestine, he calls shiites "dogs" and has no problem eliminating iran, as well as his deep and profound hatred of saddam hussein (the secular leader). osama is NOT a freedom fighter, he's a saudi sunni with selfish concerns that help him manipulate the desperate. sorry.
to be fair it is clear you want to understand but you lack very much true knowledge of Eastern affairs and people. you do not know what Osama cares about. what he has done is fought for freedom for the Muslim world. for that world to be free from non-Muslim manipulation and domination. he do this for decades.
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Obama doesnt have to worry about Mccain. Old age should take him out within the next year.
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No, I'm ripping on Obama because basically he's backing Carters trip with a meeting with the head honcho of hamas, a terrorist organization. In fact, I will rip on him as well if he meets with Mamoud (can't spell the midgets last name) because it's Iran that is supplying the arms to kill our troops, why would have seek diplomacy with someone who said he wants to wipe the US and Israel off the face of the map and said the holocaust never happend?
[/quote
Hamas are terrorists are they? Iran supply weapons that kill American troops? Who is the country who blows up schools and hospitals? Who is country who has killed over 100 thousand innocent civilians in an illegal war not supported by even the majority of its own people?
That sounds like terrorist to me.
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No, I'm ripping on Obama because basically he's backing Carters trip with a meeting with the head honcho of hamas, a terrorist organization. In fact, I will rip on him as well if he meets with Mamoud (can't spell the midgets last name) because it's Iran that is supplying the arms to kill our troops, why would have seek diplomacy with someone who said he wants to wipe the US and Israel off the face of the map and said the holocaust never happend?
mahmoud ahmadinejad. you got the first name wrong, too. he never said "wiped off the map", he said the "zionist regime would be erased from the pages of history", which is entirely different.
you are both ignorant and willfully so. i am genuinely disappointed that when people talk of the average american voter, it is you they point to and not me.
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I used to laugh at things like that too. It is much easier to laugh at things you don't understand than to learn more about them.
The US funded the mujahadeen in the 80s in a proxy war against Russian incursion into afghanistan. We gave them money, training, weapons, and intel, and they were able to prevent russia from taking afghanistan and the valuable caspian oil reserves.
The leader of the mujahadeen was osama bin laden. This is old news, readily admitted public record.
I think thats common knowlege? ???
I just had to chuckle at you second part "there is some evidence that relationship extended well into the 90s as well." That may be true, but it seemed to be a segue into a 240esq grand conspiracy diatribe. ;D
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Id rather pay $500 dollars a day to train with Milos than vote for McCain
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mahmoud ahmadinejad. you got the first name wrong, too. he never said "wiped off the map", he said the "zionist regime would be erased from the pages of history", which is entirely different.
you are both ignorant and willfully so. i am genuinely disappointed that when people talk of the average american voter, it is you they point to and not me.
He's predicting the destuction of Isreal on almost a weekly basis. Didn't you get the memo? ???
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my hatred of coloreds and women will result in me voting for mccain even if he's dead come election time.
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Id rather pay $500 dollars a day to train with Milos than vote for McCain
There is some good in you, afterall. ;)
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mahmoud ahmadinejad. you got the first name wrong, too. he never said "wiped off the map", he said the "zionist regime would be erased from the pages of history", which is entirely different.
you are both ignorant and willfully so. i am genuinely disappointed that when people talk of the average american voter, it is you they point to and not me.
Google search: ahmadinejad "destruction of israel" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=ahmadinejad+%22destruction+of+israel%22&spell=1)
73,600 hits?? ??? Many claim to be various direct quotes? Huh? ???
Hopefully you won't "willfully" remain ignorant now that you know otherwise? ???
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Obama doesnt have to worry about Mccain. Old age should take him out within the next year.
would not be awful if God took him home tonight. i hope mccains cancer comes back tonight too
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Oh brother. Like any of us have control over what happens. ::)
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Oh brother. Like any of us have control over what happens. ::)
At least we know that whoever gets elected will suck balls. I guess there's comfort in that? :-\
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Google search: ahmadinejad "destruction of israel" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&as_qdr=all&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=ahmadinejad+%22destruction+of+israel%22&spell=1)
73,600 hits?? ??? Many claim to be various direct quotes? Huh? ???
Hopefully you won't "willfully" remain ignorant now that you know otherwise? ???
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12949.htm
When properly translated the Iranian president actually calls for the removal of the regimes that are in power in Israel and in the USA as a goal for the future. Nowhere does he demand the elimination or annihilation of Israel. He called for greater governance for Palestine. The word map does not even feature. And the president makes plain that the Holocaust happened, but, he argues western powers have exploited the memory of the Holocaust for their own imperialistic purposes. What the mainstream ran with is complete deception.
thanks for playing, mr beeblebrox. 8)
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http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12949.htm
When properly translated the Iranian president actually calls for the removal of the regimes that are in power in Israel and in the USA as a goal for the future. Nowhere does he demand the elimination or annihilation of Israel. He called for greater governance for Palestine. The word map does not even feature. And the president makes plain that the Holocaust happened, but, he argues western powers have exploited the memory of the Holocaust for their own imperialistic purposes. What the mainstream ran with is complete deception.
thanks for playing, mr beeblebrox. 8)
73,000 hits = more than 1? ???
lol at Beeblebrox. You ever listen to the radio version? good stuff
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mahmoud ahmadinejad. you got the first name wrong, too. he never said "wiped off the map", he said the "zionist regime would be erased from the pages of history", which is entirely different.
you are both ignorant and willfully so. i am genuinely disappointed that when people talk of the average american voter, it is you they point to and not me.
January 1, 2007 -- Defeating the terrorist insurgency in Iraq - despite the inability of the na tion's warring political factions to unify into a coherent, stable and functioning national government - remains America's immediate global problem this New Year's Day.
But there's even more trouble on the horizon: All signs point to Iran as the world's next big flashpoint.
What once was seen as mere bluster from President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad - declaring the Holocaust never happened; threatening to wipe Israel off the face of the map; vowing to build a nuclear arsenal - is now viewed as a concrete threat. For good reason: Iran is making its presence felt on Mideast battlefields.
* Iranian military officers have been apprehended in Iraq, plotting attacks against the U.S.-backed government.
* Iran continues to exert a destabilizing influence in both Syria and Lebanon through its puppet strike force, Hezbollah, which battled Israel to a virtual draw in Lebanon last summer thanks to a stockpile of Iranian weaponry.
* Since the toppling of the Taliban by U.S.-led forces in Afghanistan, Iran has funded Shiite schools and former warlords with ties to Iranian intelligence; it also is bombarding Afghanistan's airwaves with anti-American propaganda.
* The Iranians reportedly are recruiting operatives who could strike at U.S. targets; just last week, the interpreter for NATO's commander in Iraq was arrested for spying for Tehran.
Iran finds itself, for the first time, facing U.N. sanctions - however weak - on its nuclear threat. Though seemingly watered down to the point of irrelevancy, there is at least the prospect that, in the months ahead, Western governments might act forcefully - without waiting for approval from Russia and China - to squeeze Tehran further economically.
As The Times of London noted, Iran is vulnerable on this score. Its oil industry is in trouble, with exports falling by 10 percent a year. And recent election results suggest the Iranian populace is wary of Ahmadinejad's penchant for heightened conflict with the West.
What does this have to do with Iraq?
Just this: A precipitate withdrawal of U.S.-led forces from Baghdad, as increasingly demanded by President Bush's critics, would hamstring any meaningful effort to meet this challenge head-on.
True, the most recent Security Council sanctions resolution specifically takes military action against Iran off the table.
But the continued presence of U.S. troops in the region - actively attempting to bolster the nascent democratic governments of Iraq and Afghanistan - sends a clear message that America will remain engaged in the region.
The threat to global security is too serious and immediate for the U.S. to wash its hands and withdraw. Pulling out of Iraq will not solve the growing problems in Iraq and Iran, as congressional Democrats increasingly suggest.
On the contrary - it would only make them worse.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01012007/postopinion/editorials/iran_on_the_horizon_editorials_.htm
Magoo, before you go calling me names and saying I need to educate myself, I can usually back my article sources and 9 times out of ten back what I say.
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Joe,
We're not leaving Iraq.
All 3 candidates have said that troops will remain in Iraq to protect the oil, the bases, and to bomb the hsit out of anything resembling an al-Q base. This is not debatable.
The dems will turn over the bloody street fighting to the iraqis sooner.
Mccain prefers our troops do it.
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BEGIN TRANSCRIPT
RUSH: While in the Middle East this week, the former worst president of the United States in our lifetimes and maybe ever, Jimmy Carter, has generated some press for his efforts to befriend Hamas. For those of you in Rio Linda, Hamas is an Islamic terrorist group. Israel said, "Please don't do this." The United States said, "Mr. Carter, please don't do this." Jimmy Carter is playing the role of communicator, as he calls it, gathering information from Hamas and Syrian leaders to then relay to the leaders of the United States. In essence, he has appointed himself a one-man state department that nobody asked for, that nobody wants, and that nobody is going to listen to besides these terrorist leaders. The whole world knows what Hamas wants. They've said so. They want the destruction of Israel. Hamas has not changed that view, which is why they're outcasts in the civilized world. Now, adding insult to stupidity, Carter did something that no American head of state has ever done. He was in Ramallah. He paid a visit to the grave of Yasser Arafat, and he laid a wreath of red roses at the grave of Yasser Arafat.
Now, Jimmy Carter was perhaps the most inept president of the twentieth century, a man whose failures in the Middle East led to his political downfall. It haunts us to this day. His tribute to Arafat, whose name will be forever associated with terrorism, is a fitting reminder of Jimmy Carter's misguided, irresponsible liberal leadership, and it's also timely, as two equally inept liberals, Hillary and Obama, fight it out to step into his shoes. Elections matter, they really do, folks, we say this a lot. We elected Jimmy Carter 32 years ago. Stop and think, 32 years ago, and he's still causing trouble! He's still causing havoc. He'd have been better off if he was still hammering nails at Habitat for Humanity. But you know why he's not? I'll tell you why he's not. It was the Richard Nixon funeral. I'll never forget the Richard Nixon funeral, little white house where Nixon was born and grew up was in the background of every shot of the podium at the funeral during the eulogies. Bill Clinton flew in. Henry Kissinger was there. Ronald Reagan was there, didn't speak. Gerald Ford, prominent US government officials, ex-presidents. They all stood up. Carter did not speak, by the way.
They all stood up, and at the end of that funeral, you would have thought that Richard Nixon was George Washington and Abraham Lincoln combined. They had camera shots of Jimmy Carter and the lovely and gracious Rosalyn Carter sitting next to him with the looks of utter shock on their face as they're listening to all this, because, to them, and most Democrats, Richard Nixon was the devil. He was Satan. He was Beelzebub, he was the worst thing that ever happened. Here he was being lionized as one of the greatest presidents ever, he opened China, he did so many great things, and you could just see Rosalyn sitting there fuming because she's sitting next to this schlub who's pounding nails and he's doing nothing else.
He's an ex-president, and she's elbowing, (doing impression) "See, this is what happens when you're pounding nails. You gotta get out there and you gotta make something of yourself. You gotta go around the world, hammer nails around the world, hate this country, do whatever and they'll love you, but I can't believe they're saying these things about Nixon." That didn't happen at the funeral but I know when they left, when they got back to their hotel room, you just know that Rosalyn unloaded. She's as active as Carter is. She just doesn't do it publicly. She is no shrinking violet. She was no housewife. She was right in there with the cattle prod behind Carter, nobody could see it, but I'm telling you, so she's sitting there, she's jabbing, (doing impression) "Look, Jimmy, do you believe what we just saw? Richard Nixon, the scum of the earth, had been lionized as one of the greatest presidents. How do you think they're looking at you, pounding nails." So that started Carter down the path that he's now on.
Thirty-two years ago we elected this guy, and we are still paying the price. He was asked about going to see Hamas and these other little dictatorships that he visits. He actually said, "When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person, and that's the dictator, because he speaks for all the people." (laughing) Can you imagine somebody thinking a dictator speaks for all the people? President Carter, in a dictatorship, the people don't have a voice other than screaming for their lives, other than yelps of pain when they're beaten by thug police. The dictator speaks for all the people? So Carter thinks it's much more efficient to go talk to dictators. He said, "But in a democracy like Israel, there is a wide range of opinions and that counterbalances the disappointment that I have in not meeting with the people shaping Israeli power now in the government." He says, "I can't say that [Hamas] will be amenable to any suggestions, but at least after I meet with them I can go back and relay what they say, as just a communicator, to the leaders of the United States."
Jimmy, nobody sent you, and nobody's going to listen when you come back because we already know what Hamas believes. In fact, if anything, they're going to lie to Jimmy Carter, and he's going to believe the lie. He's gonna come back and say, "Hey, I got great news, these guys want to make peace," another version of Neville Chamberlain except this guy is a renegade and off the reservation. Ed Koch today in a syndicated column: "I came to know Carter well.
When he ran for reelection, he asked me to campaign for him in 1980 - I was by then Mayor of New York City - and I said that I would vote for him, but not campaign for him because he was then engaging in hostile acts towards Israel. I was popular with the Jewish community and when I would not campaign for him unless he changed his position, he called me to his hotel in New York when attending a fundraiser and said, 'You have done me more damage than any man in America.' I felt proud then, and even more today, since we now know what a miserable president he was then and the miserable human being he is now as he prepares to meet with Hamas." Ed Koch yesterday.
END TRANSCRIPT
Read the Background Material...
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nobody's reading your spam
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nobody's reading your spam
I see you're voting for McCain :D!
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Coach meltsdown and quits getbig in
5......
4........
3............
2...........
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Joe,
We're not leaving Iraq.
All 3 candidates have said that troops will remain in Iraq to protect the oil, the bases, and to bomb the hsit out of anything resembling an al-Q base. This is not debatable.
The dems will turn over the bloody street fighting to the iraqis sooner.
Mccain prefers our troops do it.
Joe,
I know you said you're campaigning for McCain. Last time I challenged you to list 5 obama lies, you did it quite well and proved your point.
Do it here, among many undecided young voters.
Don't spam transcrpts from Rush. Tell us why you aren't worried about McCain's age.
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Coach meltsdown and quits getbig in
5......
4........
3............
2...........
1.............
Especially for you ;D
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.member.html
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serve them up joe.
don't paste it, put it in your own words.
I can't vote dem because they both just admitted they're in favor of gun control. But I'm a 1-issue voter.
Tell us, in your own words, why Mcain is the best man for the job. Don't tell us about hamas, about obama, carter, etc...
Tell us why mcCain is #1.
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Joe Marino is the very definition of "sheep"
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Especially for you ;D
http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/today.member.html
Says I need a password......... ::)
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osama 4 president and wright 4 vp!!
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"The Democrats' conception of a "plan" is like the liberal fantasy that there's a room somewhere full of unlimited amounts of "free" money that we could just give to teachers and hospitals and poor people and AIDS sufferers and the homeless if only the bad, greedy Republicans would give us the key to that wonderful room. Republicans should claim the "plan" is in that room, in a lockbox."
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I've always voted Rep. but... The economy is the #1 issue
with the American people. From stats I've heard and anyone can correct
me if I'm wrong; the dollar has lost 50% since 2002.
If the economy is the #1 issue and McCain wants to hold to Bush's
economical plan I don't see how he can win.
Bush's approval rating is at 28% right now.
When Clinton came in office there was a huge national deficit.
When he left there was a surplus.
I think if we stick to our current economical policies we are
going to end up even worse than now. McCain is a likeable man
but it's hard to forget how prosperous the Clinton era was.
I think he (Clinton) could have accomplished even more had they (Kenneth Star & Company)
not wasted alot of time trying to bring him down.
Havn't decided yet who I'll vote for but I'm not ruleing out voting
Democrat for the first time.
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bizzy,
a lot of people feel that way.
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"The Democrats' conception of a "plan" is like the liberal fantasy that there's a room somewhere full of unlimited amounts of "free" money that we could just give to teachers and hospitals and poor people and AIDS sufferers and the homeless if only the bad, greedy Republicans would give us the key to that wonderful room. Republicans should claim the "plan" is in that room, in a lockbox."
With the money Bush and company have pissed away on the unnecessary war in Iraq, $523 billion so far, we could have just paid off every single person in Iraq for $75,000 each to join us.
The republicans are fiscally retarded and tactically deranged.
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I just clicked on the Rev Wright's youtube video...wow, looks like he said a lot more than the 3 clips that were circulating on the news. This guy is a racist and is extremely critical of our country. Shame on Obama for not leaving that church. Seems farily obvious Wright spoke like this on more than a few occasions.
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73,000 hits = more than 1? ???
lol at Beeblebrox. You ever listen to the radio version? good stuff
ahmadinejad israel translation in google gets 130,000 hits. anyway, number of hits doesn't mean much. a million pages could have an urban legend posted, it's still wrong. ;)
i actually haven't! i have the big six volume collection and played the computer game a while ago, but haven't gotten my hands on the radio. and hell i didn't think the movie was that bad either, considering it had to translate a book that had almost all of the humor in the narration.
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We're not leaving Iraq.