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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: webcake on April 19, 2008, 08:12:04 PM
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ok i know this has probably been discussed a hundred times before, but whats your opinion on this?
Im starting my cutting diet tomorrow (:o) and have never really seen that much benefit from creatine. Other than water retention and looking a bit bloated after a loading phase of it, thats all i get out of it. No strength gains or anything.
So im most likely going to not take it, but was just curious what your opinion/s on this are.
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water retention helps preserve muscle mass when on low calories...
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water retention helps preserve muscle mass when on low calories...
I only notice water retention if i do a week of loading. If i just do what i do now (take it after a wrokout) i honestly don't notice anything at all. And loading is a pain in the arse...
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you dont "notice" intramuscular water retention.. your thinking of water retention under the skin..like what you get from sodium...but that too, can help preserve muscle...but creatine causes more water retention in muscle cell.. which preserves muscle mass and increases anabolism
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you dont "notice" intramuscular water retention.. your thinking of water retention under the skin..like what you get from sodium...but that too, can help preserve muscle...but creatine causes more water retention in muscle cell.. which preserves muscle mass and increases anabolism
OK, got it.
I guess ill keep taking it then. Wont hurt i guess.
I'm just trying to research shit about the whole "simple cabs with creatine", as I'm going to start a slight variation on the Palumbo diet, so the only carbs ill get are fibrous carbs from green veggies.
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why dont you wait untill your carb up days to take the creatine then. you dont have to take creatine everyday like the supp companies tell you. once youve "loaded", or youve taken it for a few weekss, your body doesnt lose its creatine supply over night. it takes abou a month. atp "recycles" creatine. :)
you should carb up every 3 or 4 days to avoid metabolic slowdown.. so i would take 10 grams with those carb meals maybe with some ala as well
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why dont you wait untill your carb up days to take the creatine then. you dont have to take creatine everyday like the supp companies tell you. once youve "loaded", or youve taken it for a few weekss, your body doesnt lose its creatine supply over night. it takes abou a month. atp "recycles" creatine. :)
you should carb up every 3 or 4 days to avoid metabolic slowdown.. so i would take 10 grams with those carb meals maybe with some ala as well
Cool, good idea.
Well i could probably "load" this coming week, then do as you said and just take it on the carb up days.
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water retention helps preserve muscle mass when on low calories...
How so?
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How so?
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
i dont know the cell mechanics of why it happens
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What does creatine have to do with holding muscle?
The idea behind creatine and loading it (at least taking it the way BBers do) is so you hold more water within the muscle cell. So are you saying that you think the extra water inside the muscle cell contributing to the extra volume/size of the cell, allows the cell to not be burned for energy should somebody not have the excess fat/calories needed to burn energy? (not antagonizing)
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yes you are.but its okay.
no, i dont think it.
i know it.
i already stated tha increased water retention in the muscle creates breater anabolism. as you know, muscl eis constantly being broken down and rebuilt..hether you cutting or bulkking... so obviously, the faster you can build up, as opposed to breeakd won..the better...so increasing anabolism while dieting increases that build up...thus "preserving" muscle
the idea that you cant build muscle while losing body fat i flawed anbyways
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yes you are.but its okay.
an·tag·o·nize (n-tg-nz)
tr.v. an·tag·o·nized, an·tag·o·niz·ing, an·tag·o·niz·es
1. To incur the dislike of; provoke hostility or enmity in: antagonized her officemates with her rude behavior.
2. To counteract.
What I'm doing is called "picking your brain" or having a round table discussion...in order for all to learn/gain. Not just you and I.
Does that sound antagonistic? If you would like me to be, I can start?
the idea that you cant build muscle while losing body fat i flawed anbyways
I agree. I've gained muscle while losing fat many a time. Guys like Charles Poliquin have observed this too. The idea that you cannot, comes from not having excess calories to build the muscle mass. Excess calories are needed to some degree, but one of the other necessary things to to stimulate the muscle, therefore it responds by growing bigger. You do not need both at all times.
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yeah. guys act like you have to be in a constant fat burn mode or a constant muscle build mode.. ;D
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Don't forget the guys that try to bulk up while staying lean..."clean bulk" they call it. As opposed to a "dirty bulk?" I guess they think calories from a MickeyD burger that is 500cals...is different than the 500cal they ingest from white rice and a chicken breast? Only in vitamins.....and macro-nutrients.
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;D
clean bulk= slow bulk
do cardio if you want to get pussy!
back on subject... creatine has been shown to protect muscle whil dieting through intramuscular water retention...
but some people claim extra muscular ewater retention like that from sodium also helps preserve muscle and allows for greaer pumps in the gym
what do you think?/ i personlly have noticed better pumps, id be interessted in finding out how that kind ofd water retention effects the muscl cell
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What I've read on creatine, at one time, was that the water brought to the cells due to the excess creatine, makes the volume of the cell larger, and stretches the outer fascia. This creates tiny little tears in the muscle and smaller satellite cells come to the aid and "patch" the tears thus making the cell thicker/bigger a little at a time. Keep in mind, the effect is not going to be like slapping a t-bone on your biceps...but over time they should show some type of difference visually.
For better pumps in the gym, yeah I've had them when you load up on crap. Nothing like eating a couple In & Out 4x4's and getting all that sodium in you and once you digest all that beef, you slam weights like you're a titan. Personally, the best pumps I get are from having essential amino's a la Milos.
Mindspin had some protein pills that were killer in regards to giving you a pump. He got them from Dr. Scott Connelly and I was privileged enough to try them for about a month. Unfortunately, they most likely aren't ever going to be mass produced, and I was only able to try them that one time.
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do you know if they were just the eaa's or wht? current i ddrink whe isolate before, sip on waxy/bcaas during... that works alright
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Can't remember exactly what it was. I do remember MS saying that there was a shitload of protein that is needed, in order to extract what fractions Dr. Connelly wanted/needed. It was just too expensive to mass produce.
As far as my current protein intake-minus the steak and such through the day- I order from Trueprotein.com and use a 60% BCAA to 40% EAA mix. Actually, I think I used a 55% BCAA and made up the 5% difference in creatine. Like Milos, I drink one 20-40min pre-workout and sip on another during my workout. Making sure to have the drink done at the same time my first body part is completely worked. Then switch to water for the rest of my workout, and do the second body part and (currently) cardio. Once I get my stuff from my locker, I go and drink (again this is my current routine as I've done "everything" post workout) an Isopure whey drink and another Met-Rx RTD; gives me a good blend of proteins and I feel it covers all the bases as much as possible.
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thats a good idea and i think im gonna make a custom mix something like that
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candi is right on this one...creatine can definately help preserve muscle mass by doing it's original job of increasing intracellular water. With increased water retention, it helps make a more recovery friendly environment, especially if you're taking it along with other quality supplements. Being it's this early in the morning..it escapes me as to what else goes along with my statement..but as soon as it jumps back to me i'll be sure to post it. It's why I love taking RESULTS from atlarge nutrition so much...it's got a few extra goodies in it like HMB, etc but the difference 've noticed in recovery has been ridiculous. I start dieting today and plan on staying on it the entire time to help me keep recovering in the gym as best as possible and maintian all the gains I've made. Candi is right on guys...
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Candi, i thought you were a big advocate of no carbs?! Whats all this advice about carb days and low carb days? HAve you read aceto's books?