I would expect better of u Decker..this is all pure bullshit..the bust they erected...was for the shitheads who shot him down...says so on the website. If its true there are guys who were in the Hilton and Comrade Obama will find them if they exist.Come on HH, I clearly entitled this bit, "How to Swift Boat McCain...".
I wouldn't mention Kerry and McCain in the same sentence. What Kerry did was treacherous.This is what I'm talking about.
Ok fine Decker...that site does give both sides. I will say that the Kerry stuff has been out there for a long time. It took some organization to get the Swift boat thing moving. I guess my question would be, how long has that info been out. I'm from Mass and both my parents were Dems, my dad hated Kerry for that Winter Soldier bs.Did you believe that John Kerry shot a naked child in the back as the child fled?
Look for my money..in the Service we always ask where academy grads graduated....what rank...the lower the rank, the better the guy. I served with a guy who was 2nd to last at West Point. He was a soccer player and hippy. He also held off a Taliban assualt with his ODA team, in 2001 with 5th Group....and won both a Bronze Star with V device and got a purple heart...he was the last guy any of us thought would go SF. U guys would all fit in better with Mccain then with the guy who graduated 1.
This is what I'm talking about.
The SwiftBoat Bullshit works b/c people like you want to believe it's true. It's a hell of a lot easier to base your vote on disproven propaganda than to analyze the issues.
The Swift Boaters were thoroughly debunked: Print coverage failed to note Swift Boat Vets' claims have been debunked
http://mediamatters.org/items/200703300008
But what of McCain's treachery? Here's a website that looks at McCain's Manchurian Candidacy
John McCain: The Manchurian Candidate
By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
December 1992 Issue
HOW MUCH MORE INFORMATION DID HE GIVE?
McCain has admitted that the Vietnamese repeatedly threatened to withhold much needed operations unless he would give them more information. Did he provide it?
After six weeks of this type of threats and medical treatment, he was delivered to Room No. 11 of "The Plantation" and into the hands of two other POWs, who helped further nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself.
For the next 22 months, McCain was kept isolated from the other American prisoners. Because the Vietnamese considered him a "special prisoner" he was the target of intense indoctrination programs. His communist interrogators believed that because McCain came from a "royal family," he would, when finally released, return to the United States to some important military or government job.
The communist were very much aware that POW McCain would be under great psychological pressure not to do or say anything that would tarnish his famous military family and they considered that to be the key to eventually breaking and then "turning" him.
During that period of time McCain was visited by several foreign delegations (including Cubans) and interviewed by many high ranking North Vietnamese leaders including Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, North Vietnam's Minster of Defense and national hero . . .
http://www.usvetdsp.com/manchuan.htm
I would expect better of u Decker..this is all pure bullshit..the bust they erected...was for the shitheads who shot him down...says so on the website. If its true there are guys who were in the Hilton and Comrade Obama will find them if they exist.Uh,... HH, forget the Bust, if this is true, there's going to be big problems for McCain.
I wouldn't mention Kerry and McCain in the same sentence. What Kerry did was treacherous.Dude, if McCain gave secrets for his safety, that's just as much if not more treacherous. There's no way to argue it's not.
(2) he tried to use his military service to support his presidential candidacy
WOW, this is really bad, if it is shown he gave military info to the enemy, it's not much to ask if American troops lost their lives due to the info he gave. oooohhh, this is pretty serious...
Not to mention Repugs opened up the door by nailing Kerry so the playing field for this stuff is wide open and who's at fault for that?
Dude, if McCain gave secrets for his safety, that's just as much if not more treacherous. There's no way to argue it's not.
When it isn't tabloid news then I'll pay attention.Then you should pay attention because the only part that I pointed out as being big came from his own mouth and was published in U.S. News in May 1973 ;) I confirmed it.
Mccain's ad campaign is playing clips of him as a POW over and over. It's been their whole campaign for 4 weeks now. Isn't that the same thing?
No. McCain didn't betray his fellow POWs like Kerry. In fact, McCain was offered an early release when they realized who his father was and he turned it down to stay with his comrades. That's the kind of man who can run on his military record; not a jerk who testifies before Congress calling his fellow soldiers baby killers while they are still being held as POWs.
Then you should pay attention because the only part that I pointed out as being big came from his own mouth and was published in U.S. News in May 1973 ;) I confirmed it.
We're not discussing the quality of their service (unless you're choosing to change the debate).
You said Kerry "tried to use his military service to support his presidential candidacy".
Mccain's ad campaign is playing clips of him as a POW over and over. It's been their whole campaign for 4 weeks now. Isn't that the same thing?
Wrong. I was fine with Kerry's military service until two things happened: (1) I watched the Stolen Honor documentary, which showed how he threw his fellow soldiers under the bus during the war and included interviews of POWs and their wives; and (2) he tried to use his military service to support his presidential candidacy (e.g., his salute and "reporting for duty" comments at the convention). I saw the documentary after the convention, but it just upset me to no end that he engaged in such despicable conduct and then tried to run in part on his military record.
additionally, he crashed 4 Navy jets.
No. McCain didn't betray his fellow POWs like Kerry. In fact, McCain was offered an early release when they realized who his father was and he turned it down to stay with his comrades. That's the kind of man who can run on his military record; not a jerk who testifies before Congress calling his fellow soldiers baby killers while they are still being held as POWs.LOL... How you can justify this statement of yours with McCain giving in and giving military secrets is beyond me. You do know that this kind of intelligence obtained by the enemy leads to the death or potential for of our troops... How's that not a betrayal?!?!
You confirmed what someone allegedly said they heard McCain say after he had crashed, had two broken arms, a broken leg, etc. and been tortured? Works for me . . . .McCain WROTE the article... OH OOOOPS!!!!! EAT THAT BUBBA ;D fact...
LOL... How you can justify this statement of yours with McCain giving in and giving military secrets is beyond me. You do know that this kind of intelligence obtained by the enemy leads to the death or potential for of our troops... How's that not a betrayal?!?!
I don't know any such thing. Proof?see my above post :)
McCain WROTE the article... OH OOOOPS!!!!! EAT THAT BUBBA ;D fact...
John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account
By John S. McCain III, Lieut. Commander, U.S. Navy
published in U.S. News in May 1973
"I said, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital."
Oooh. You got me. So he said he would give them military information. And? What did he give them? If you're trying to equate McCain making that statement after crashing, suffering serious injuries, and being tortured with Kerry sitting in front of TV cameras throwing his comrades who were still POWs under the bus, sorry, I'm not buying.I'm sure in exchange for the special treatment for years, he told the we were wearing green ::) COME ON ::)
I'm sure in exchange for the special treatment for years, he told the we were wearing green ::) COME ON ::)
So now it's "special treatment for years" and not medical treatment for his injuries?yea, it was both! after his hospital stay, he got a private 10 X 10 cell. No the conditions were not nice, but probably way nicer than others who didn't talk were alloted. Why would they live up to their end if he didn't give his end? They were just being nice? lol...
Sounds like you have no idea what, if anything, he gave them. Wake me when this becomes a legitimate story.
I thought it was 5?
completely true. look it up on google.
NT
yea, it was both! after his hospital stay, he got a private 10 X 10 cell. No the conditions were not nice, but probably way nicer than others who didn't talk were alloted. Why would they live up to their end if he didn't give his end? They were just being nice? lol...
The conditions were not nice? No kidding. lol. They realized they had a hot potato when they discovered his father was an admiral. That's why they offered to let him go and he stayed behind with his comrades.You're the one with the red herring, He saved his ass by telling them he would give them military information. Do you suppose others sat and suffered with their injuries without hospital treatment because they wouldn't talk? yup.
Not a story. Sorry. Next red herring? :)
You're the one with the red herring, He saved his ass by telling them he would give them military information. Do you suppose others sat and suffered with their injuries without hospital treatment because they wouldn't talk? yup.
Wrong. I was fine with Kerry's military service until two things happened: (1) I watched the Stolen Honor documentary, which showed how he threw his fellow soldiers under the bus during the war and included interviews of POWs and their wives; and (2) he tried to use his military service to support his presidential candidacy (e.g., his salute and "reporting for duty" comments at the convention). I saw the documentary after the convention, but it just upset me to no end that he engaged in such despicable conduct and then tried to run in part on his military record.Stolen Honor ranks with the Clinton Chronicles re ethical journalism.
Stolen Honor ranks with the Clinton Chronicles re ethical journalism.
Kerry's anti-war efforts helped end the war and spare more americans from becoming POWs.
You do realize that Stolen Honor intersects with the Swift Boaters don't you?
You do realize that the Swift Boaters have been completely debunked and shown for the politically motivated frauds that they were?
Have you watched Stolen Honor?My wife doesn't let me bring propaganda into the house.
My wife doesn't let me bring propaganda into the house.
But I have read about it quite a bit b/c I still can't believe people fall for that kind of garbage.
Here's a point by point debunking of "Stolen Honor".
http://mediamatters.org/items/200410230001
Too bad crap like "Stolen Honor" appeals to a certain segment of our population. But then again, propaganda works.
As I suspected. You haven't watched it, but you can tell me all about it. Riiiiight.I can read excerpted quotes from the hitpiece. I can make a decision based on that.
I guess it's possible I didn't actually see Kerry making his treacherous comments on the documentary, that the former POWs and their wives weren't actually talking about the impact of his comments on the documentary (maybe they were actors?), and that I didn't really form my opinion based on Kerry's own words and actions.
I really didn't pay attention to this until I stumbled across the Stolen Honor documentary on TV one day and watched it. Just incredible. What he did is indefensible. The fact he tried to run in part on his military record after stabbing his fellow soldiers in the back is a crime. I have zero respect for the man.
I can read excerpted quotes from the hitpiece. I can make a decision based on that.
Kerry helped stop the war.
I'm sorry you believed what you saw: manufactured or out of context comments on a man who should have been president.
Well yeah, I tend to believe what I see and hear. :) So what are you saying, that Kerry wasn't really talking? Body double? Lip sync? What?http://mediamatters.org/items/200410230001?f=s_search
....
http://mediamatters.org/items/200410230001?f=s_search
Look at that whole page.
In his 1971 testimony before the Senate foreign relations committee, Kerry was simply relating the personal experiences of other Vietnam veterans who came home and testified to their personal experiences at the Winter Soldier Investigation hearing in Detroit earlier that year, which was organized by Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW). Kerry, who testified in his capacity as spokesman for VVAW, focused blame on the leaders at that time -- not the soldiers -- for the atrocities they claimed to have committed or witnessed.
Come on HH, I clearly entitled this bit, "How to Swift Boat McCain...".
It's just a gentle reminder of the things that may come down the pike this political season.
Hell, if the Swift Boaters could turn a war hero like Kerry into a murderous traitor, whose to say it can't happen again.
I didn't put this together to prove the truth of the stuff asserted about McCain because I don't believe it myself.
Your reaction was much like my own when the real Swift Boaters pretty much called Candidate Kerry a murderous, cowardly, underserving hero poseur and the Republican machine ate it up.
I remember that all the attendees at the Republican Convention of 2004 wore band-aids with little purple hearts on them.
So the Swift Boat message was taken to heart.
O.K. I read the first part of the page. That means I've gone a step further than you, because you haven't watched any of the documentary. My opinion is the same. What the heck is he doing saying this crap while we have POWs in an ongoing war??Granted it was hearsay but so what. It is arguable that if Kerry, as a Viet Nam Vet turned anti-war leader, did not make a big stink about this stuff, the war may have lasted longer than it had.
They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, tape wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.
Brilliant.
The difference is, the Swift Boaters, were factually accurate. Their claims were well-documented and the Swift Boaters were attached for their motives rather than on the factual accuracy of their assertions. And by the way, Kerry admitted publicly to war crimes on a talk show.None of what you claim is true about the Swift Boaters:
None of what you claim is true about the Swift Boaters:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/08/06/veteran_retracts_criticism_of_kerry/
Veteran retracts criticism of Kerry
Nightline Falsifies Swift Boat Veterans for 'Truth'
http://www.undergroundclips.com/undergroundclips/2004/10/nightline_falsi.html
The only truth about the Swift Boaters was you could always tell when they were lying about Kerry's war record...their lips were moving.
Oooh. You got me. So he said he would give them military information. And? What did he give them? If you're trying to equate McCain making that statement after crashing, suffering serious injuries, and being tortured with Kerry sitting in front of TV cameras throwing his comrades who were still POWs under the bus, sorry, I'm not buying.
You're still the no 1 equivocating Son Of aBitch douchebag on this site. Congrats!
His mother must have drop-kicked him one to many times. The hard wiring is messed up. :-\
Granted it was hearsay but so what. It is arguable that if Kerry, as a Viet Nam Vet turned anti-war leader, did not make a big stink about this stuff, the war may have lasted longer than it had.
You question the man's act of conscience.
Mccain will win it, or lose it, in the debates.
When America hears him speak, he'll be revealed.
If he's brilliant, the job is his.
If he's senile, the job is Obama's.
Veteran accuses John McCain of insanity!
An Ex-Fighter Pilot Confirms Bryanna’s Theory: McCain Is “Insane”
"I have a theory about John McCain based on my twelve years in line fighter squadrons.
Bryanna’s right; McCain is insane. The unimaginable sufferings he endured in Communist prisons unhinged him permanently.
Flying fighters in the 1980s and 90s, I got to know several Vietnam POWs including some who had been captive even longer than McCain’s five and a half years.
All were unbalanced. The ones I knew who were long-time POWs—with one exception and that exception I knew only very slightly—were high-functioning lunatics. Common denominators were trouble with alcohol, cars, divorces, tempers and aggressive flying verging on recklessness—a very unwelcome trait in a fighter pilot.
Bear in mind that they were all in good enough shape after prison to get back into line fighter squadrons. But while McCain was able to get flight orders after Hanoi, he was never assigned to a line attack squadron or a carrier air wing again."
http://www.vdare.com/letters/tl_052106.htm
What a troubling revelation. (In the SwiftBoat tradition of course)
Seeing the ugly side of "humanity" changes people. No one is denying that.I can only imagine. Slandering a hero's reputation for political purposes is extremely low on my list of cowardly acts.
I can only imagine. Slandering a hero's reputation for political purposes is extremely low on my list of cowardly acts.ie., Kerry in 2004
ie., Kerry in 2004Yeah.
I would generally think that his military/POW time should be off limits out of basic human decency - but he's running on it. He scraped out of college, admits the economy is not his strong point, and can't even use a computer. He just goes on and on about Iraq and being a "wartime President". He is the one trumpeting his military background, so it is campaign fodder imo.He does appear out of touch and out of time.
I would generally think that his military/POW time should be off limits out of basic human decency - but he's running on it. He scraped out of college, admits the economy is not his strong point, and can't even use a computer. He just goes on and on about Iraq and being a "wartime President". He is the one trumpeting his military background, so it is campaign fodder imo.
Being we're at war....remember, I know its hard since nobody really cares, but we are at war and McCain will do a better job then Barry will....
He does appear out of touch and out of time.
mccain graduated 4th from the bottom in a class of 800 cadets.
nuff said.
NT