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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on April 25, 2008, 11:08:59 AM
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Isles lowest in gun deaths
Strict laws bring fewer fatalities, the Violence Policy Center says
By Leila Fujimori
lfujimori@starbulletin.com
Hawaii ranks the lowest of 50 states in gun deaths per capita, which is attributable to its tough gun laws and low rates of gun ownership, according to the Violence Policy Center.
"That is a glowing endorsement of Hawaii's strict enforcement of strict gun laws, which I wholeheartedly endorse," said city Prosecutor Peter Carlisle. "This is very good news, and we should keep following the path we've been following for years, which is intolerance when guns are used criminally."
The nonprofit Violence Policy Center, which advocates gun control, issued its analysis yesterday of data for 2005 from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Hawaii had 2.2 gun deaths per 100,000 population, well below the national per capita gun death rate of 10.32. Hawaii's household gun ownership is at 9.7 percent of households. Hawaii was followed by Massachusetts, Rhode Island, New Jersey and New York, in that order, for the lowest gun death rates.
The five states with the highest per capita gun death rates are Louisiana, No. 1, followed by Alaska, Montana, Tennessee and Alabama.
Maxwell Cooper, legislative co-chairman for the Hawaii Rifle Association, said, "I think that VPC has juggled the statistics to support themselves."
Cooper said, "Strict gun laws have no relationship to criminal abuse of firearms because criminals don't respond to laws."
He attributes Hawaii's low gun death rate to a law-abiding citizenry and its isolation, which he said makes it difficult for mainland criminals to infiltrate the state.
http://starbulletin.com/2008/04/25/news/story01.html
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Advertiser Editorial.
Credit Hawaii’s gun controls for lowest firearm death rate
THE ISSUE
Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control show that Hawaii has the lowest gun death rate in the nation.
FIGURES showing that Hawaii is last in the country in gun deaths per capita should put to rest the notion that an armed citizenry is safer. However, the U.S. Supreme Court is considering an appeal of a decision that, if upheld, could dismantle strong gun controls that have contributed to Hawaii's low number of deaths by firearms.
An analysis by the Violence Policy Center of 2005 data collected by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that Hawaii is lowest in both household gun ownership -- 9.7 percent -- and gun deaths per 100,000 -- 2.2. The national per capita gun death rate was 10.3 per 100,000.
The organization, which supports gun controls, points out that Southern and Western states with weak gun laws and high rates of gun ownership lead the nation in overall firearm death rates. The top five states had household gun ownership rates ranging from 46.4 percent to 60.6 percent and gun death rates of 16.2 percent to 19 percent.
The Supreme Court heard arguments last month and is expected to rule in June on the appeal of a 2-1 decision by a federal appeals panel that the District of Columbia's gun controls violate the Second Amendment. Hawaii Attorney General Mark Bennett joined three other state attorneys general in urging the high court to overturn the ruling. They expressed concern that the ruling, if upheld, will "cast a cloud" over all federal and state gun controls.
Meanwhile, other states are under pressure for the gun lobby to loosen controls, allowing everybody who can get a gun permit to carry concealed firearms wherever they wish. Virginia Gov. Tim Kaine vetoed a bill last month that would have allowed concealed handguns in restaurants.
In the last day of its session, the Georgia legislature this month approved a bill that would allow concealed handguns in restaurants that serve alcohol, in state parks and on public buses and trains, including Atlanta's transit system.
Beverly A. Scott, general manager of the transit system, calls the bill "insanity," and has joined Atlanta's law-enforcement and business leaders and mayor in urging Gov. Sonny Perdue to veto the bill. Fearful public transit workers are distributing a petition calling for bulletproof partitions to separate drivers and operators from passengers.
Unlike Hawaii, Georgia does not require a person to give a good reason for carrying a concealed gun in order to obtain a permit. Anybody who is at least 21 years old and submits to a criminal background check can get a concealed gun permit in Georgia, where the gun death rate already is more than five times that of Hawaii.
http://starbulletin.com/2008/04/26/editorial/editorial01.html
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Hawaii lives in a bubble with a nice ocean to protect it.
You attach hawaii to NJ and watch how fast your smug ass cries when you're mugged by two 14-year old with a switchblade.
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Does anyone know if mentally ill people can own guns? Anyone who believes we faked the moon landing feel free to chime in.
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Does anyone know if mentally ill people can own guns? Anyone who believes we faked the moon landing feel free to chime in.
Your perception is skewed because you feel safe. The only people who can get to your island are those who live there, and those who can afford a plane ticket in.
In the other 48 mainland states, some prick from Cali or Michigan can drive to your Connecticut gated community and fcuk up your day.
You don't understand that, because you are sheltered and naive.
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Your perception is skewed because you feel safe. The only people who can get to your island are those who live there, and those who can afford a plane ticket in.
In the other 48 mainland states, some prick from Cali or Michigan can drive to your Connecticut gated community and fcuk up your day.
You don't understand that, because you are sheltered and naive.
100 % correct
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100 % correct
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lol. The only people who can get to my island are those who live here? Or can afford to visit? lol. Very funny. :)
Hawaii has crime just like any other city, but it's on a much smaller scale (violent crime anyway). It's one of the safest places to live in the country, which is part of the reason I live here. Most of our violent crime is domestic. Like this:
Ewa Beach couple dies
Apparent murder-suicide shocks neighbors
By Gene Park
gpark@starbulletin.com
Police are investigating an apparent murder-suicide after a married couple was found dead in their Ewa Beach home.
The pair, identified by neighbors and family as Domingo "Bunny" and Della Dikito, was found dead with gunshot wounds at their home on 91-1635 Kaukolu St.
At 11:51 p.m. Friday, neighbors in the area called police reporting what sounded like gunshots coming from the home.
When police arrived, they found 38-year-old Della Dikito in the first-floor bathroom, dead with gunshot wounds.
Police also found her 39-year-old husband dead in the garage with what appeared to be a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
Neighbors in the area reported hearing about seven shots ring out. A gun was recovered at the scene. Bullet holes were visible at the home's garage door.
The couple is survived by their three daughters and a son. Domingo Dikito's family declined to comment yesterday. Neighbors said two of the children were at a nearby home at the time of the incident, while the other two were on Maui.
The Dikitos' neighbor, 67-year-old George Uemoto, was returning home just past midnight when he saw blue flashing lights and an ambulance near his home.
"The ambulance came, and the ambulance left empty," he said. "Right then I knew they were dead."
The Uemotos moved into the neighborhood in 2000 and became fast friends with their neighbors, often inviting them over for meals.
"When he had troubles at work, or with his union, he would come to me," Uemoto said. "That's the relationship I had with him."
Uemoto said Dikito never mentioned any problems with his marriage.
Uemoto's wife, Marion, recalled seeing Domingo sitting alone at the bench outside his home, looking morose and lonely.
"He appeared very lonely. ... He was a real family man. He loved his kids. He loved her too," she said.
Marion Uemoto said she once heard Domingo saying something to the effect of how if he couldn't have her, nobody would.
But the Uemotos said they had not seen any indication of any domestic violence from the home, and that the shooting came as a shock.
As of yesterday afternoon, George Uemoto hadn't slept since returning home that night, because he was still grieving over the loss of two people he cared about.
"This morning they took the bodies away," he said. "I just said goodbye, watching them go together, leaving home together."
http://starbulletin.com/2008/04/27/news/story05.html
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Isles lowest in gun deaths
Strict laws bring fewer fatalities, the Violence Policy Center says
By Leila Fujimori
lfujimori@starbulletin.com
Hawaii ranks the lowest of 50 states in gun deaths per capita, which is attributable to its tough gun laws and low rates of gun ownership, according to the Violence Policy Center.
As usual, the VPC* is clueless and intellectually dishonest. No one gives a fu&^ when they are being killed by a rock, a car, or a knife. The people at the VPC, when you told them of your dead kid who was stabbed to death would probably say "at least it didnt happen with a gun!" Morons...Dead is dead, thus what matters is homicide rates. Go look at where Hawaii ranks in homicide rates, and note the states with lots of guns and easy access to gun, ergo NH, VT, and others have lower homicide rates, as well as lower crimes rates in general.
It’s easy to put together some correlational info that is without proper context or missing data or fails to account for other variables. Anti gun types, being inherently intellectually dishonest, are specialists at that. They appear to feel the end justifies the means, so if ignoring history and fudging facts and data gets guns banned, that’s OK with them. A fun and simple example of how to do it:
Every year the Brady Bunch gives each state a grade for their gun laws. As you would expect (as they being a anti gun/pro gun control oriented group), states with strict gun control laws get high grades and states with less strict laws get lower grades:
STATE . . . . . . Brady Grade,
New York . . . . . . B+
Vermont . . . . . . . D-
New Hampshire . . D-
Maine . . . . . . . . . D-
Massachusetts . . . A-
Connecticut . . . . . A-
Rhode Island . . . . B-
Now, lets compare each of those states to the actual crime rates:
2005 FBI UCR data of crime/homicide rates per 100,000 people:
Region . . . Violent Crime, Homicide Rates
USA National . . 569.2 , 5.6
New York . . . . 445.8 , 4.5
Vermont . . . . . 119.7 , 1.3
New Hampshire 132.0 , 1.4
Maine . . . . . . . 112.2 , 1.4
Massachusetts . 456.9 , 2.7
Connecticut . . . 274.5 , 2.9
Rhode Island . . 251.2 , 3.2
Conclusion: if you want to find the safest place to live in the US, chose the state with the WORST grade from the Brady bunch! Aint playing with numbers fun?
Lots of stats can be thrown up to easily show the VPC is, as usual, full of sh^%, but that's the general picture.
Note to readers: Violence Policy Center = VPC. ::)
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What is VPC?
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Your perception is skewed because you feel safe. The only people who can get to your island are those who live there, and those who can afford a plane ticket in.
In the other 48 mainland states, some prick from Cali or Michigan
And speaking of Michigan....
Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits
January 6, 2008
By DAWSON BELL
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER
Six years after new rules made it much easier to get a license to carry concealed weapons, the number of Michiganders legally packing heat has increased more than six-fold.
But dire predictions about increased violence and bloodshed have largely gone unfulfilled, according to law enforcement officials and, to the extent they can be measured, crime statistics.
The incidence of violent crime in Michigan in the six years since the law went into effect has been, on average, below the rate of the previous six years. The overall incidence of death from firearms, including suicide and accidents, also has declined.
More than 155,000 Michiganders -- about one in every 65 -- are now authorized to carry loaded guns as they go about their everyday affairs, according to Michigan State Police records.
About 25,000 people had CCW permits in Michigan before the law changed in 2001.
"I think the general consensus out there from law enforcement is that things were not as bad as we expected," said Woodhaven Police Chief Michael Martin, cochair of the legislative committee for the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police. "There are problems with gun violence. But ... I think we can breathe a sigh of relief that what we anticipated didn't happen."
John Lott, a visiting professor at the University of Maryland who has done extensive research on the role of firearms in American society, said the results in Michigan since the law changed don't surprise him.
Academic studies of concealed weapons laws that generally allow citizens to obtain permits have shown different results, Lott said. About two-thirds of the studies suggest the laws reduce crime; the rest show no net effect, he said.
But no peer-reviewed study has ever shown that crime increases when jurisdictions enact changes like those put in place by the Legislature and then-Gov. John Engler in 2000, Lott said.
In Michigan and elsewhere (liberal permitting is the rule in about 40 states), those who seek CCW permits, get training and pay licensing fees tend to be "the kind of people who don't break laws," Lott said.
Nationally, the rate of CCW permits being revoked is very low, he said. State Police reports in Michigan indicate that 2,178 permits have been revoked or suspended since 2001, slightly more than 1% of those issued.
Another State Police report found that 175 Michigan permit holders were convicted of a crime, most of them nonviolent, requiring revocation or suspension of their permits between July 1, 2005, and June 30, 2006.
But even if more armed citizens have not wreaked havoc, some critics of Michigan's law chafe at how it was passed: against stiff opposition in a lame duck legislative session and attached to an appropriation that nullified efforts at repeal by referendum.
Kenneth Levin, a West Bloomfield physician, was one of those critics. In a letter to the Free Press in July 2001, he referred to the "inevitable first victim of road or workplace rage as a result of this law."
Last month, Levin said he suspected "it probably hasn't turned out as bad as I thought. I don't think I was wrong, but my worst fears weren't realized."
But the manner in which the law was enacted was nevertheless "sneaky" and "undemocratic," Levin said.
Other opponents remain convinced that it has contributed to an ongoing epidemic of firearms-related death and destruction.
Shikha Hamilton of Grosse Pointe, president of the Michigan chapter of the anti-gun group Million Moms March, said she believes overall gun violence (including suicide and accidental shootings) is up in Michigan since 2001. Many incidents involving CCW permit holders have not been widely reported, she said.
The most publicized recent case came early in 2007, when a 40-year-old Macomb County woman fired from her vehicle toward the driver of a truck she claimed had cut her off on I-94. Bernadette Headd was convicted of assault and sentenced to two years in prison.
Hamilton said that even if gun violence has ebbed, it remains pervasive, tragic and unnecessary. At the least, a more liberal concealed weapons law means there are more guns in homes and cars and on the street, she said, and more potential for disaster.
Advocates for the law argue that there is nothing equivocal about the experience of the CCW permit holders who have warded off threats and, in a few instances, saved themselves from harm.
In September, a 36-year-old Troy man killed an armed 18-year-old assailant who, with three other suspects, attempted to steal his car outside Detroit Police headquarters.
Michelle Reurink, 40, a consultant in Lansing, got her CCW permit last year, not so much because she felt an imminent threat to her well-being, she said, but because she's a strong believer in the Constitution's Second Amendment -- the right to bear arms.
"The primary reason I got it is because I feel like I have the right to have it," she said.
Still, she doesn't often carry her gun during her daily routine, though she takes it when she and her husband go on their boat, she said.
Having the license and a handgun makes her feel more secure in her home (where no one needs a CCW license to have a gun), she said. She also feels more secure because of the required training, including self-defense lessons, she took as part of the license application.
Mark Cortis of Royal Oak, who conducts concealed weapons license training and sits on the Oakland County gun board, said he believes the benefits of an armed citizenry are evident in small ways almost every day, as permit holders deter trouble and live more confidently.
"The police just can't protect you," Cortis said. "If you have to call 911, it's probably already too late."
Contact DAWSON BELL at 313-222-6604 or dbell@freepress.com.
http://www.freepress.com/apps/pbcs.d...801060602/1008
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What is VPC?
You did actually read the article you posted yes? Violence Policy Center = VPC. ::)
I shall add a correction now for those who can't figure that out... :o
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You did actually read the article you posted yes? Violence Policy Center = VPC. ::)
I shall add a correction now for those who can't figure that out... :o
lol
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Beach Bum owned again.
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Beach Bum owned again.
I find anti guns types all have three things in common:
• They don't know sh&^ about guns
• They don't know sh&^ about gun stats
• They don't know sh&^ about gun laws
Sad, but true... :-\
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You did actually read the article you posted yes? Violence Policy Center = VPC. ::)
I shall add a correction now for those who can't figure that out... :o
[gasp] I missed the acronym. Thanks for clearing that up. ::)
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Go look at where Hawaii ranks in homicide rates, and note the states with lots of guns and easy access to gun, ergo NH, VT, and others have lower homicide rates, as well as lower crimes rates in general.
I looked at where Hawaii ranks in homicide rates and other violent crimes. We have one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. We are considered one of the safest cities in the country.
According to this, we have the fifth lowest murder rate in the country: http://www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.html
Another look at our crime stats:
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Honolulu&state=HI
Our police chief says:
Still, Honolulu has had one of the lowest violent crime rates of any U.S. city, and property crimes have always accounted for most of the reported offenses. "Honolulu continues to be the safest major city in the U.S.," Honolulu police Chief Boisse P. Correa said in a statement.
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2008/Jan/08/ln/hawaii801080345.html
As I said previously, most of our violent crime, particularly murder, is domestic, like this one from last night:
Double shooting shakes Halawa
A 60-year-old man and 40-year-old woman died of gunshot wounds in an apparent murder-suicide last night at a two-story walk-up apartment on Halawa Heights Road.
Emergency Medical Services officials said the man and woman were pronounced dead at the second-floor apartment at 99-801 Halawa Heights Road at about 8:25 p.m.
Police said a call to 911 from that address was dropped after 6:30 p.m. Neighbors said the two were a couple.
Police entered the apartment through a rear window and said they found a 9 mm semiautomatic pistol at the scene.
http://starbulletin.com/2008/05/27/news/story01.html
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I looked at where Hawaii ranks in homicide rates and other violent crimes. We have one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country.
Not as low as some - which have higher per cap gun ownership, etc, etc, as already covered. The issue being, the VPC (you hopefully know what that is now....) focused on a worthless outcome, and they must show murder rates and other crimes rates are effected by a change in gun laws, which they can't so they pull a BS stat like that one, and people like yourself not knowing any better, fall for it, and post it to news groups...
We are considered one of the safest cities in the country.
Which has nothing to do with your gun laws and you're not lower than states like NH, VT, etc which have far higher per capita gun ownership, etc, etc. Already covered. Studies show stricter gun laws either have no effects on murder rates and most other major crimes, or raise it, but none finds it actually lowers it.
http://www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.htmlAccording to this, we have the fifth lowest murder rate in the country: http://www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.html
No, one city does, which is behind 4 others which are found in states without strict gun laws BTW. You need to learn how to read basic stats or stay out of such conversations. Can't jump between states and cities as it suits you.
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hawaii is a fishbowl.
let the mainland ship 200,000 homeless mean fvckers to your neighborhood.
Tell us how anti-gun you are then ;)
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hawaii is a fishbowl.
let the mainland ship 200,000 homeless mean fvckers to your neighborhood.
Tell us how anti-gun you are then ;)
You should walk around in the west side of Ohau and talk about these "United" States. ;D
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fvcking liberal state. Go fvck a rainbow, hippy.
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fvcking liberal state. Go fvck a rainbow, hippy.
Well that was not very nice! :o ;D :o
BTW, not all "liberals" are clueless on this issue:
Guns are for liberals, too
By: Mike Eber
The Michigan Daily
University of Michigan
Posted: 11/26/07
If there is one issue that alienates me from my liberal counterparts, it's gun rights. So when the Supreme Court decided last week to hear its first Second Amendment case since the 1930s, and as the College Libertarians raffled off a gun voucher, I felt a bit alienated from other liberals. This experience has forced me to re-evaluate what it truly means to be a liberal.
I attribute my liberal leanings to my upbringing in a politically liberal home. Because of the ideology of my parents and older sister, I get plenty of heat for my beliefs about gun ownership. When I turned 21, my mother asked me if I was excited to finally drink legally on campus. I responded that I could really care less about joining my peers in the teeming, sweaty mess people call Rick's. For me, turning 21 was really exciting because I gained the right to carry a concealed weapon in the state of Michigan. I was met with the usual emotional response - comments that I was "sick" and would never be welcome in my mother's house if I chose to buy a gun.
As I wonder what led me to be the black sheep of my liberal family, I remember my middle-school social studies teacher, Mr. Jankowski. Mr. J, as we called him, sported a glass eye and a passion for civil liberties. I now realize Mr. J educated our class indirectly in the political philosophy of John Locke. While teaching lessons on the Bill of Rights, he would explain that this perceived necessity to bear arms is not only for self-defense but is also essential to preserve a democratic society. If a government does not fear an armed populace, then that government is not truly democratic, because it does not need to respect the electorate's authority.
Through our lessons, we learned that a democratic and civilian-controlled military is never to be taken for granted, which necessitates civilian armament. Gun ownership rights are, in fact, the first rights restricted when a democratic society turns for the worst. Weimar Germany was a free society that treated Jews better than most other places in Europe. Then Adolph Hitler came to power. As The New York Times reported in 1938, after Kristallnacht, Hitler declared an edict "forbidding Jews to possess any weapons whatever and imposing a penalty of twenty years confinement in a concentration camp upon every Jew found in possession of a weapon."
Consider our presidential election in 2000. Blatantly ignoring the will of Florida voters, the U.S. Supreme Court handed victory to Bush on a technicality. Liberals agreed that there was nothing more to do in appeal, but according to Locke, if a government is guilty of systematic abuse of its power, then citizens have a right install legitimate rule. Instead, liberals stood by willingly after the ruling, acting as if they had just lost a close football game.
We may not need a compelling reason to own a firearm other than the fact that an armed populace is necessary for the security of a free state. Anti-Patriot Act liberals should realize that if they cannot trust the government to respect the privacy of their phone calls or to grant proper due process, then they should probably not also assume the government can be trusted not to disarm its citizens in the name of public safety.
My liberal friends love to cite instances like the Virginia Tech shooting and violent crime statistics as emotional appeals to restrict gun rights. I have heard that guns are more lethal than knives and make society more dangerous rather than promoting general safety. I definitely concede this fact: In the best of all worlds, nobody would need to ensure for his or her own defense. Similarly, in this utopia, we would not need to bother with the constraints of due processes because the government would always be righteous.
Like Ben Franklin and all other liberals, I would not give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety. Weighing public safety against the liberty of gun ownership and establishing militia follow in the same vein. Many Americans scoff at the necessity of modern day minutemen, and I hope they will not be needed in our lifetime. However, preserving the Second Amendment is like having a good insurance policy: You may hate making the monthly payments, but you sure are glad you did when an inferno consumes your house.
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I looked at where Hawaii ranks in homicide rates and other violent crimes. We have one of the lowest violent crime rates in the country. We are considered one of the safest cities in the country.
According to this, we have the fifth lowest murder rate in the country: http://www.citymayors.com/society/uscities_safest.html
Another look at our crime stats:
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime.asp?city=Honolulu&state=HI
anyone see that New York is #12? not too bad considering it was the most dangerous place in the country a decade ago.
i guess New York is like one of your college buddies you used to party with that got married and had kids.
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fvcking liberal state. Go fvck a rainbow, hippy.
You should take a lude. Chill. :)
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You should take a lude. Chill. :)
libs like you make me sick. All you want to do is give handjobs to adhmedijahad and recycle guns for hybrid cars. Sometimes I just want to skewer the whole lot of you on a bonfire and eat you with A1 steak sauce. On second though, you vegan pus.sies probably don't taste good either. Go lube up a baby seal or something!
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libs like you make me sick. All you want to do is give handjobs to adhmedijahad and recycle guns for hybrid cars. Sometimes I just want to skewer the whole lot of you on a bonfire and eat you with A1 steak sauce. On second though, you vegan pus.sies probably don't taste good either. Go lube up a baby seal or something!
You eat A1 steak sauce? :P
You probably put ketchup on everything else....don't yah?
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You eat A1 steak sauce? :P
You probably put ketchup on everything else....don't yah?
No ketchup. = tomatoes.
I only eat food that feels pain for my consumption. If it didn't scream as it was hit in head with sledgehammer, I don't want to eat it. You stick with seaweed, you vaginalian. I'm chewing baby eels by the mouthful as I type this.
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Not as low as some - which have higher per cap gun ownership, etc, etc, as already covered. The issue being, the VPC (you hopefully know what that is now....) focused on a worthless outcome, and they must show murder rates and other crimes rates are effected by a change in gun laws, which they can't so they pull a BS stat like that one, and people like yourself not knowing any better, fall for it, and post it to news groups...
Which has nothing to do with your gun laws and you're not lower than states like NH, VT, etc which have far higher per capita gun ownership, etc, etc. Already covered. Studies show stricter gun laws either have no effects on murder rates and most other major crimes, or raise it, but none finds it actually lowers it.
No, one city does, which is behind 4 others which are found in states without strict gun laws BTW. You need to learn how to read basic stats or stay out of such conversations. Can't jump between states and cities as it suits you.
The issue I was addressing was Hawaii's violent crime rate. Instead being in such a hurry to try and sound smart, why don't you go back and look at what I've said. I haven't made any connection to Hawaii's violent crime rate and gun control. The editorial comments on that issue. I didn't. I've solely commented on two things.
1. Hawaii is one of the safest cities in the country. The links I provided prove this. I'd like to see what evidence you have to disprove what I've posted about our violent crime rate.
2. Most of our violent crime, particularly murder, is domestic.
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anyone see that New York is #12? not too bad considering it was the most dangerous place in the country a decade ago.
i guess New York is like one of your college buddies you used to party with that got married and had kids.
You can thank Rudy and the Street Crimes Units for that, at least in part.
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The issue I was addressing was Hawaii's violent crime rate. Instead being in such a hurry to try and sound smart, why don't you go back and look at what I've said. I haven't made any connection to Hawaii's violent crime rate and gun control. The editorial comments on that issue. I didn't. I've solely commented on two things.
1. Hawaii is one of the safest cities in the country. The links I provided prove this. I'd like to see what evidence you have to disprove what I've posted about our violent crime rate.
2. Most of our violent crime, particularly murder, is domestic.
Holy shit, you are hopeless.
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Holy shit, you are hopeless.
::)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=212629.0;attach=254325;image)
::)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=212629.0;attach=254325;image)
That's cool.
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And every country in Western Europe has fewer homicide rates, through guns or otherwise than any state in the USA.
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The issue I was addressing was Hawaii's violent crime rate. Instead being in such a hurry to try and sound smart, why don't you go back and look at what I've said. I haven't made any connection to Hawaii's violent crime rate and gun control.
First post you made:
"Isles lowest in gun deaths
Strict laws bring fewer fatalities, the Violence Policy Center says"
The editorial comments on that issue. I didn't.
Then why did you post it? Clearly, because you thought it was useful info of some sort.
I've solely commented on two things.
But your first post that started this thread was on gun laws. Again, why did you post it then?
1. Hawaii is one of the safest cities in the country.
Are you really this stupid? Hawaii is not a city. ::)
The links I provided prove this.
Being you can't even figure out that Hawaii is a state, not a city, not to mention you post an article from the Violence Policy Center and then can't figure out what VPC stands for, your credentials for this conversation are non existent at this point.
Perhaps you are stoned? Really, leave this topic to those who have done the research on the topic.
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Your perception is skewed because you feel safe. The only people who can get to your island are those who live there, and those who can afford a plane ticket in.
In the other 48 mainland states, some prick from Cali or Michigan can drive to your Connecticut gated community and fcuk up your day.
You don't understand that, because you are sheltered and naive.
haha so true
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First post you made:
"Isles lowest in gun deaths
Strict laws bring fewer fatalities, the Violence Policy Center says"
Then why did you post it? Clearly, because you thought it was useful info of some sort.
But your first post that started this thread was on gun laws. Again, why did you post it then?
Are you really this stupid? Hawaii is not a city. ::)
Being you can't even figure out that Hawaii is a state, not a city, not to mention you post an article from the Violence Policy Center and then can't figure out what VPC stands for, your credentials for this conversation are non existent at this point.
Perhaps you are stoned? Really, leave this topic to those who have done the research on the topic.
::) Okay Einstein, go back and read this thread again, slowly. I posted the article and the editorial on this discussion board because articles and particularly editorials are discussion pieces. That's why I post topics on here pretty much every day. They are discussion pieces. I post topics I agree with, some I disagree with, and some I have no opinion on. That's the whole purpose of a discussion board. Regarding this particular thread, I agree with the conclusion that Hawaii is one of the safest places in the country. I have no opinion on whether that is related to gun laws.
One of the things political discussion boards do is attract smart liberals (e.g., Decker), smart conservatives (e.g., shootfighter), smart middle of the road guys (e.g., Ozmo), nuts (no comment), and pea brained buffoons who think very highly of themselves and focus on style rather than substance. I'm not sure if you fall into the latter category, but you're about to convince me.
What you've done here is essentially issue a challenge regarding Hawaii's murder and crime rates:
Go look at where Hawaii ranks in homicide rates, and note the states with lots of guns and easy access to gun, ergo NH, VT, and others have lower homicide rates, as well as lower crimes rates in general.
My response focused solely on the murder and violent crime rates in Hawaii and not whether those rates are related to gun laws. In response, I provided you with three sources showing we are the safest, if not the safest city (state, whatever) in the country.
Your response is to talk about whether Hawaii is a city? ::) You obviously know nothing about paradise. Now if you want to get technical and act like a pompous buffoon, "Hawaii" has two definitions. One definition is the state of Hawaii. Another is the Island of Hawaii, aka "The Big Island," which itself is a county. But I'm sure you knew that, right? ::)
Honolulu essentially is "Hawaii" for statistical purposes. About 900,000 of our state's approximately 1.2 million people live in Honolulu, with the rest spread throughout the other islands. Crime rates are lower on the neighbor islands. But I'm sure you knew this when you asked people to "Go look at where Hawaii ranks in homicide rates," right? You knew you were really asking people to look at the county of Honolulu (on which most "Hawaii" statistics are based) and not the Big Island of Hawaii or the state of Hawaii? ::) (These are rhetorical questions, by the way.)
Now, regarding the factual statements I've made about the safety of Hawaii (note: when I say I "Hawaii" I'm really referring to the place where most of the people live, i.e., Honolulu), you have not contradicted a thing I've said. You challenged people to go look at Hawaii's murder rates and crime statistics. I showed you that Hawaii's murder and violent crime rates are among the lowest in the country. Are you disputing this?
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::) Okay Einstein, go back and read this thread again, slowly.
So you can understand it? It's not me who has made one mistake after another.
I posted the article and the editorial on this discussion board because articles and particularly editorials are discussion pieces. That's why I post topics on here pretty much every day. They are discussion pieces.
Which was then easily debunked by me.
I post topics I agree with, some I disagree with, and some I have no opinion on. That's the whole purpose of a discussion board.
OK, got it. You posted it as a random discussion starter and had no opinion on it one way or another. Fair enough. Normally, when one starts a thread it's because they have a personal connection to the topic.
Regarding this particular thread, I agree with the conclusion that Hawaii is one of the safest places in the country. I have no opinion on whether that is related to gun laws.
Understood. Again, when one posts an article on a topic, it's assumed that person actually has some interest and connection to the topic.
One of the things political discussion boards do is attract smart liberals (e.g., Decker), smart conservatives (e.g., shootfighter), smart middle of the road guys (e.g., Ozmo), nuts (no comment), and pea brained buffoons who think very highly of themselves and focus on style rather than substance. I'm not sure if you fall into the latter category, but you're about to convince me.
I don't give a fu&% what category you want to place me in. I was the only one on the thread posting substance on the particular topic.
What you've done here is essentially issue a challenge regarding Hawaii's murder and crime rates:
No, not really, but you have shown a total lack of knowledge here and clearly don't have any training in stats or even a general understanding in how to interpret them. I challenged the conclusions of the article YOU posted, which was how gun laws affected murder or serious crime rates state to state, including the STATE of Hawaii, not if Hawaii is safer than X or not. The only actual point I made is, murder rates, not murder rates with guns (as the VPC focused on) is what matters, and again, data shows gun laws either (1) have no effects on such crime rates or (2) increase such crimes. Thus, the VPC, ergo, the article YOU posted, is full of sh&^ as always. Nothing more, nothing less.
My response focused solely on the murder and violent crime rates in Hawaii and not whether those rates are related to gun laws.
Right after you posted an article about crime rates and guns via the VPC. I see logic is not your strong point....
In response, I provided you with three sources showing we are the safest, if not the safest city (state, whatever) in the country.
Jumping back and forth between city and state is not "what ever" it simple shows you totally lack the knowledge and background for the conversation. How old are you? You debate like a teenager.
Your response is to talk about whether Hawaii is a city? ::) You obviously know nothing about paradise.
And you obviously know nothing about the actual topic of this thread.
Now if you want to get technical and act like a pompous buffoon, "Hawaii" has two definitions. One definition is the state of Hawaii. Another is the Island of Hawaii, aka "The Big Island," which itself is a county. But I'm sure you knew that, right? ::)
Neither of which refers to a city, thus, yet again, you look like an ignorant fool here.
Honolulu essentially is "Hawaii" for statistical purposes.
Wrong, and not a singe criminologist or other person who deals with stats of this nature would agree. Your ongoing babble was snipped as its just more repeat and proof your way out of your league in this conversation. Enjoy.
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So you can understand it? It's not me who has made one mistake after another.
Which was then easily debunked by me.
OK, got it. You posted it as a random discussion starter and had no opinion on it one way or another. Fair enough. Normally, when one starts a thread it's because they have a personal connection to the topic.
Understood. Again, when one posts an article on a topic, it's assumed that person actually has some interest and connection to the topic.
I don't give a fu&% what category you want to place me in. I was the only one on the thread posting substance on the particular topic.
No, not really, but you have shown a total lack of knowledge here and clearly don't have any training in stats or even a general understanding in how to interpret them. I challenged the conclusions of the article YOU posted, which was how gun laws affected murder or serious crime rates state to state, including the STATE of Hawaii, not if Hawaii is safer than X or not. The only actual point I made is, murder rates, not murder rates with guns (as the VPC focused on) is what matters, and again, data shows gun laws either (1) have no effects on such crime rates or (2) increase such crimes. Thus, the VPC, ergo, the article YOU posted, is full of sh&^ as always. Nothing more, nothing less.
Right after you posted an article about crime rates and guns via the VPC. I see logic is not your strong point....
Jumping back and forth between city and state is not "what ever" it simple shows you totally lack the knowledge and background for the conversation. How old are you? You debate like a teenager.
And you obviously know nothing about the actual topic of this thread.
Neither of which refers to a city, thus, yet again, you look like an ignorant fool here.
Wrong, and not a singe criminologist or other person who deals with stats of this nature would agree. Your ongoing babble was snipped as its just more repeat and proof your way out of your league in this conversation. Enjoy.
Oh blah blah blah. ::) Yes, you are now in the "pea brained buffoons who think very highly of themselves and focus on style rather than substance" category. Congratulations. :)
You obviously didn't know the distinction between Hawaii (the state), Hawaii (the county), Honolulu (the city and county), and/or where most of the people of this great state live. I suspect you still don't. But I'm here to help. Next time you want to play the "I'm an intellectual" role, you should have your own facts in order. :)
You didn't debunk squat. Where are your statistics debunking my contention that Hawaii is one of the safest places in the nation? Post them.
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Oh blah blah blah. ::) Yes, you are now in the "pea brained buffoons who think very highly of themselves and focus on style rather than substance" category. Congratulations. :)
You obviously didn't know the distinction between Hawaii (the state), Hawaii (the county), Honolulu (the city and county), and/or where most of the people of this great state live. I suspect you still don't. But I'm here to help. Next time you want to play the "I'm an intellectual" role, you should have your own facts in order. :)
You didn't debunk squat. Where are your statistics debunking my contention that Hawaii is one of the safest places in the nation? Post them.
You're a moron. Your parents must be proud. :P
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You're a moron. Your parents must be proud. :P
They probably disowned him for being an insufferable brat.
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You're a moron. Your parents must be proud. :P
That's it? No stats disproving my contention that Hawaii is one of the safest places in the country? Thanks for participating Sergeant Schultz.
(http://content.ytmnd.com/content/2/5/e/25e111fb668f52554c0ef84645c0a3b8.jpg)
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That's it? No stats disproving my contention that Hawaii is one of the safest places in the country? Thanks for participating Sergeant Schultz.
(http://content.ytmnd.com/content/2/5/e/25e111fb668f52554c0ef84645c0a3b8.jpg)
Yeah, it's safe.
Just be careful where you leave your car. Otherwise it may end up in a Pineapple field. ;D
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Yeah, it's safe.
Just be careful where you leave your car. Otherwise it may end up in a Pineapple field. ;D
True. :) Now property crime is a huge problem.
And the leeward side has problems, but I love it over there. When we first came here they put all us soldiers in a room for part of our orientation, put up a map, and told us not to go to certain areas of the island, including Waianae. Said they don't like military people. So naturally my first weekend we went to Waianae. :) I pulled up on the sand like a genius. Car got stuck. Two really big Hawaiian guys came over, tied up my car, and pulled it out. I'll never forget it. It's part of the reason I do a lot of volunteer work out there. They are good people.
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When we first came here they put all us soldiers in a room for part of our orientation, put up a map, and told us not to go to certain areas of the island, including Waianae. Said they don't like military people. So naturally my first weekend we went to Waianae. :) I pulled up on the sand like a genius. Car got stuck. Two really big Hawaiian guys came over, tied up my car, and pulled it out. I'll never forget it. It's part of the reason I do a lot of volunteer work out there. They are good people.
I thought you said you never served in the military. You dropped out to raise a family, then later got your GED, then your AA, BA, MS, and eventually, PhD to be able to teach at the University level?
Your web of lies is starting to unravel, my friend.
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::) ::)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=212629.0;attach=254325;image) (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=212629.0;attach=254325;image)
::) ::)
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Once again...Western Europe.... ;)