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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on May 05, 2008, 04:30:24 PM
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Good.
May 5, 7:06 PM EDT
Study: Restaurant tobacco bans influence teen smoking
By STEVE LeBLANC
Associated Press Writer
BOSTON (AP) -- A Massachusetts study suggests that restaurant smoking bans may play a big role in persuading teens not to become smokers. Youths who lived in towns with strict bans were 40 percent less likely to become regular smokers than those in communities with no bans or weak ones, the researchers reported in the May issue of the Archives of Pediatrics & Adolescent Medicine.
The findings back up the idea that smoking bans discourage tobacco use in teens by sending the message that smoking is frowned upon in the community, as well as simply by reducing their exposure to smokers in public places, said Dr. Michael Siegel, of Boston University School of Public Health, and the study's lead author.
"When kids grow up in an environment where they don't see smoking, they are going to think it's not socially acceptable," he said. "If they perceive a lot of other people are smoking, they think it's the norm."
Siegel and his colleagues tracked 2,791 children between ages 12 and 17 who lived throughout Massachusetts. There were no statewide restrictions when the study began in 2001 but about 100 cities and towns had enacted a hodgepodge of laws restricting smoking in workplaces, bars or restaurants.
The teens were followed for four years to see how many tried smoking and how many eventually became smokers.
Overall, about 9 percent became smokers - defined as smoking more than 100 cigarettes.
In towns without bans or where smoking was restricted to a designated area, that rate was nearly 10 percent. But in places with tough bans prohibiting smoking in restaurants, just under 8 percent of the teens became smokers.
The study found that having a smoker as a parent or a close friend was a factor in predicting whether children experiment with cigarettes. But strong bans had a bigger influence on whether smoking grew into a habit, reducing their chances of becoming smokers by 40 percent.
"There is really no other smoking intervention program that could cut almost in half the rate of smoking," Siegel said.
Age was also a factor. Smoking bans had a greater effect on younger teens than on older teens.
The researchers said it's not clear whether strong bans would have the same effect in other states since local towns adopted their restrictions as part of an aggressive anti-smoking campaign throughout the state.
A statewide workplace smoking ban that included restaurants went into effect in mid-2004. Since then, high school smoking rates in Massachusetts have continued to decline, from about 21 percent of students in 2005 to about 18 percent in 2007.
Many restaurant owners fought the ban, saying it could drive away diners, according to Janine Harrod, director of government affairs for the Massachusetts Restaurant Association, which represents 2,000 restaurant owners.
While some restaurants were hurt initially, the effects have eased over time since the ban applies to everyone, she said.
Bill Phelps, a spokesman for Altria, parent company of cigarette-maker Philip Morris USA, said the study shows that the reasons teens take up smoking are complex.
"There is no single reason why young people engage in risky behaviors like smoking," he said. "We believe that there should be a multifaceted approach to address youth smoking."
At least 23 states, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico require most public places and workplaces, including restaurants and bars, to be smoke free, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures.
Another nine states ban smoking in workplaces but have various exemptions for restaurants or bars.
"We already have more than enough evidence why we should pass these smoke-free laws, but certainly this study should help push them along," said Danny McGoldick of the Campaign for Tobacco Free Kids.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TEEN_SMOKING_RESTAURANTS?SITE=HIHAD&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
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brutally unimportant issue.
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brutally unimportant issue.
Nice trolling. ;D
Yeah maybe so but as a non-smoker.........
I think the no-smoking thing started out ok and with the right intentions, but it is fast approaching the over-board realm. California, which can be considered a no-smoking state prohibited smoking in Bars a few years back. I think if a person who owns a bar should be able to provide a place people can drink and smoke. I don't know why you can't have smoking bars and non-smoking bars. As a result, some bars......whose names i will not mention 8), have resorted to declaring part of their bars a residence and even have gone as far as giving it a different address.
BTW, I'm glad restaurants do that. Nothing spoils food more than cig smoke.
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Nice trolling. ;D
Yeah maybe so but as a non-smoker.........
I think the no-smoking thing started out ok and with the right intentions, but it is fast approaching the over-board realm. California, which can be considered a no-smoking state prohibited smoking in Bars a few years back. I think if a person who owns a bar should be able to provide a place people can drink and smoke. I don't know why you can't have smoking bars and non-smoking bars. As a result, some bars......whose names i will not mention 8), have resorted to declaring part of their bars a residence and even have gone as far as giving it a different address.
BTW, I'm glad restaurants do that. Nothing spoils food more than cig smoke.
There was an outcry from some about the restaurant/bar ban here, but it really hasn't negatively impacted business at all. I haven't been to a sports bar to watch a game since the ban, but I quit going years ago after inhaling a pack of cigarettes. >:( Getting my own big screen helped too. :)
Anything we can do to discourage kids from smoking is a good thing.
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There was an outcry from some about the restaurant/bar ban here, but it really hasn't negatively impacted business at all. I haven't been to a sports bar to watch a game since the ban
So if you havent been to any places, how can you know they're unaffected?
I'll play on your irrelevant thread.
Smoking ban was a terrible idea. Most FL bars simply ignored it, because the ones that followed it went outta business. People who drink also usually smoke. This is a fact. I have never tried a cig in my life, but 99% of all bar patrons and workers do smoke.
you make people stand up, leave their drink on the counter (dangerous) and go into the heat/cold to smoke. They lose their sink, they lose their drink, they are outside at night in a bad area, and they go to their cars and leave.
It completely killed the bar scene in SW Fla. Then there was a uniform 'ignore' and unenforced policy just to keep local economy alive.
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Hey!
Turn the boat around and let's go back for another pass.
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Hey!
Turn the boat around and let's go back for another pass.
:)
(http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/images/troll.jpg)
Wednesday, March 12, 2008
Study: Smoking ban doesn't hurt tourism
Pacific Business News (Honolulu)
The Hawaii Department of Health says the state's year-old anti-smoking law has not hurt the hospitality or tourism industries.
State health officials on Wednesday released the results of a $13,000 study by Andrew Hyland and Cheryl Higbee of the Roswell Park Cancer Institute in Buffalo, N.Y. The institute has studied the economic impact of similar smoke-free workplace laws in other states including New York and Delaware.
Anti-smoking activists and supporters of the law have insisted that it can't be blamed for a declining economy. Those opposing the law have argued that it has drained Hawaii business owners of customers and profits and is directly responsible for a drop in visitor arrivals and spending.
The institute's report, which used data collected from the state Department of Business, Economic Development and Tourism, did show slight dips in visitor spending and arrivals but concluded that other variables and changing trends are at play.
Among the highlights:
Overall total monthly visitor spending in Hawaii was comparable in the years before and after the law took effect -- $1.038 billion before November 2006 and $1.018 billion after that.
Overall total monthly spending from Japanese visitors was $183 million before November 2006 and $168 million after that.
The average number of monthly visitor arrivals to Hawaii in the year before the law took effect was 616,895 compared to 615,106 in the year after November 2006.
There were 212 more people working in Hawaii's visitor industry after the law went into effect in November 2006 than in the previous year.
There were 1,591 more jobs in the food and beverage services sector after the law went into effect.
http://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/stories/2008/03/10/daily28.html
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3 days ago i heard the exact opposite. Someone cited that it played along in the personal fables teenagers undergo. Also they "tracked" children 12-17, what does that mean? They handpicked students who would fit their agenda.
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I definitely think there should be a tobacco ban.
Anyone who disagree should google COPD.
It starts out like astma for many people, but the difference is that the lung capacity won't recover when the smoking stops.
And it often leads to death.
It costs not only lives, but tremendous pain and is expensive as hell for our society.
COPD would be almost non-existent if there would be no smokers.
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It should be up to the club owner whether or not to allow smoking.
patrons can decide to stay, or choose a place that doesn't allow smoking.
restaurants are something else. but bars? nearly everyone there smokes.
BB, you can cite some lame hawaiian study if you'd like... you've already been living in a scared bubble and even the far-right people here are now agreeing youre an out-of-touch liberal liar.
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It should be up to the club owner whether or not to allow smoking.
patrons can decide to stay, or choose a place that doesn't allow smoking.
restaurants are something else. but bars? nearly everyone there smokes.
BB, you can cite some lame hawaiian study if you'd like... you've already been living in a scared bubble and even the far-right people here are now agreeing youre an out-of-touch liberal liar.
I agree with the club thing and agree that all restaurants should be smoke free.
As far as keeping kids from starting to smoke.......any thing that helps, no matter how little is good.
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I agree with the club thing and agree that all restaurants should be smoke free.
As far as keeping kids from starting to smoke.......any thing that helps, no matter how little is good.
I'd rather the local economies in all 50 states do well.
I don't see how preventing smoking in bars - where you have to be 21 to get in the door anyway - stops kids from smoking.
This issue should be separated. Grouping restaurants and bars only closes bars unnecessarily.
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I'd rather the local economies in all 50 states do well.
I don't see how preventing smoking in bars - where you have to be 21 to get in the door anyway - stops kids from smoking.
This issue should be separated. Grouping restaurants and bars only closes bars unnecessarily.
I'm not saying the existing laws are good and therefore should be kept becuase it keeps children from smoking.
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I'm not saying the existing laws are good and therefore should be kept becuase it keeps children from smoking.
I know. I agree with you. I'm a big fan since you admitted the official 9/11 story is a sham. Took a lot of courage.
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I love that there is no smoking in resturants and sports bars that serve food anymore. Huge improvement.
However, private clubs should be left alone.
The issue is that smoking undeniably affects others negatively so a ban on public indoor places is appropriate in the aim of protecting our health....but in the effort not to restrict freedoms excessively, there should be no restrictions in the open air (away from building entrances) or private clubs.
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It should be up to the club owner whether or not to allow smoking.
patrons can decide to stay, or choose a place that doesn't allow smoking.
restaurants are something else. but bars? nearly everyone there smokes.
BB, you can cite some lame hawaiian study if you'd like... you've already been living in a scared bubble and even the far-right people here are now agreeing youre an out-of-touch liberal liar.
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/parenting/images/300/baby_crying_closeup.jpg)
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have you finished that sam walton book yet?
I remember you gave us the book review then didn't know who the waltons were.
not your finest moment. Liberal.
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I love that there is no smoking in resturants and sports bars that serve food anymore. Huge improvement.
However, private clubs should be left alone.
The issue is that smoking undeniably affects others negatively so a ban on public indoor places is appropriate in the aim of protecting our health....but in the effort not to restrict freedoms excessively, there should be no restrictions in the open air (away from building entrances) or private clubs.
That might be a good compromise (open air).
The ban has apparently been pretty well received here:
74% of Hawaii Residents in Favor of Smoke-Free Law
Written by KGMB9 News - news@kgmb9.com
April 23, 2008 12:23 PM
An overwhelming majority of Hawaii residents support the Smoke-Free law, according to a survey commissioned by the Coalition for a Tobacco-Free Hawaii (CTFH). Fifteen months after the Smoke-Free law took effect, support for Hawaii's Smoke-Free Law continues to increase. According to study results from Ward Research, nearly three-quarters (74 percent) of Hawaii residents strongly favor the Smoke-Free Law. This represents an increase of eight percent from initial survey results recorded in February 2007.
In February 2008, Ward Research was commissioned by CTFH to track any changes in Hawaii resident attitudes toward the Smoke-Free Law. Results of this survey indicate that 74 percent of Hawaii residents now strongly favor the law, compared to 66 percent in February 2007.
Eighty-two percent of respondents strongly agreed that all workers in Hawaii should be protected from exposure to secondhand smoke in the workplace. This statistic increases to 95 percent for Hawaii residents aged 35 to 54.
Eighty-three percent strongly agreed that it's really nice to enjoy restaurants and bars in Hawaii without smelling like cigarette smoke when you get home. Now that they are smoke free, 80 percent of Hawaii residents strongly agreed that restaurants and bars are healthier for customers and employees.
In an economy where 80 percent of consumer purchases are driven by women, it should be noted that females are significantly more likely than males to be in favor of the public smoking ban, smoke-free workplace, and to agree that smoke-free restaurants and bars are healthier for customers and employees. Eighty-one percent of females interviewed strongly favor the Smoke-Free law.
Hawaii residents with higher household income are more likely to agree with Smoke-Free law. Ninety-six percent of respondents with a household income of $100,000 and above agree that restaurants and bars are healthier for customers and employees now that they are smoke-free.
Hawaii became the 14th state to join a national and international movement to protect people from the dangers of secondhand smoke, since then, 11 other states have passed smoke-free work-place laws. Under Hawaii's law all enclosed and partially enclosed workplaces are now smoke-free, including bars, nightclubs, airports and shopping malls.
CTFH was instrumental in the passage of Hawaii's smoke-free law designed to protect people from secondhand smoke while at work and in most public places.
The Coalition for a Tobacco-Free Hawaii represents agencies, businesses and individuals working together to reduce the negative impact of tobacco in the islands. For more information about the Coalition visit www.tobaccofreehawaii.or g.
http://kgmb9.com/main/content/view/5823/40/
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74% of Hawaii Residents in Favor of Smoke-Free Law
The problem is that these measures are psased by people like you, voters who admit they don't even go to bars - but they just want to 'help the children'.
#1 - there are no kids in bars to be influenced.
#2 - they should hold the election at the bars so that only those affected - the patrons and the owners - can vote on the issue.
You have elderly folks and high school dropout college professors telling bar owners how to run their business, when they'll never step foot in these places. They just don't like smoking. (i dont either) But I respect the rights of others to smoke, and I sure respect the right of business owners to allow/not allow smoking in their 21+ age area.
It doesn't affect most people in any way. but locally in florida, it put dozens of clubs out of business. I suppose it means you're also voting for higher unemployment and a weaker local economy :)
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I know. I agree with you. I'm a big fan since you admitted the official 9/11 story is a sham. Took a lot of courage.
Oh brother.
No it didn't. It took brains and common sense. The same stuff it takes to see that it wasn't holograms of a planes hitting the WTC's. :D ;) ;D
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Oh brother.
No it didn't. It took brains and common sense. The same stuff it takes to see that it wasn't holograms of a planes hitting the WTC's. :D ;) ;D
You rock, brother.
That means that 2/3 of the moderators don't believe the story, just as 2/3 of Americans don't believe it.
Balance has been achieved@!
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You rock, brother.
That means that 2/3 of the moderators don't believe the story, just as 2/3 of Americans don't believe it.
Balance has been achieved@!
Yes, we Mods are a cross section of the American public! This proves it! ;D
Time to march on the White House!
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Time to march on the White House!
Disagree.
Time to win in november by an uncheatable margin.
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Disagree.
Time to win in november by an uncheatable margin.
Good luck with that. We'll need it. :(
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I have no sympathy for smokers. Nothing good comes out of it. If you want to kill yourself, do it around yourself then. More toxins in ciggs than a car exhaust pipe...wonder why that never caught on.. ;D
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The problem is that these measures are psased by people like you, voters who admit they don't even go to bars - but they just want to 'help the children'.
#1 - there are no kids in bars to be influenced.
#2 - they should hold the election at the bars so that only those affected - the patrons and the owners - can vote on the issue.
You have elderly folks and high school dropout college professors telling bar owners how to run their business, when they'll never step foot in these places. They just don't like smoking. (i dont either) But I respect the rights of others to smoke, and I sure respect the right of business owners to allow/not allow smoking in their 21+ age area.
It doesn't affect most people in any way. but locally in florida, it put dozens of clubs out of business. I suppose it means you're also voting for higher unemployment and a weaker local economy :)
As a former smoker I say why should people have rights to pollute the air?
And the Florida bars could just have an outside area where people can smoke - duh!
Smoking should be illegal. It is a health hazard to the smokers and those who have to breath second hand smoke, and I have heard tobacco farmers are barely scraping by so no one is winning except Big Tobacco. >:(
Here in NYS they are going to raise the tax again on tobacco. You can't afford to smoke here and kids certainly shouldn't take up that filthy habit.
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As a former smoker I say why should people have rights to pollute the air?
Smokers in bars don't pollute air outside the bar - ventilation systems are required and work fairly well. If you're not in the bar, you're unaffected. If you choose to enter a bar (and 98% of the people who do smoke), you choose to enter a polluted environment.
And the Florida bars could just have an outside area where people can smoke - duh!
6 months a year, the temp doesn't drop below 85 and muggy. mosquitoes. just nasty outside in Fl at night.
Smoking should be illegal. It is a health hazard to the smokers and those who have to breath second hand smoke, and I have heard tobacco farmers are barely scraping by so no one is winning except Big Tobacco.
I agree. But until it's illegal, it does help the economy. I contend that inside a smoky bar, smokers don't affect others.
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Well if you CHOSE to smoke then do it where it is legal. :)
They bitched and moaned here when it became illegal in bars, and I don't recall any bars closing because of that.
If it wasn't for the big money behind it smoking already would be illegal. But they have people in their corner. So they should be happy that it hasn't been made illegal yet and STFU. :)
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they bitched and moaned here when it became illegal in bars, and I don't recall any bars closing because of that.
In my state, many bars have closed because of it. I play in local bands and have been in bars every weekend for 11 years now. I remember how it was before and after the ban. People have to walk away from their seats and drinks to go outside. They leave. Bars lose business and close.
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In my state, many bars have closed because of it. I play in local bands and have been in bars every weekend for 11 years now. I remember how it was before and after the ban. People have to walk away from their seats and drinks to go outside. They leave. Bars lose business and close.
Thats not so bad. Couple of drinks at home means I aint driving dirty...another benefit. :D
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Well if you CHOSE to smoke then do it where it is legal. :)
They bitched and moaned here when it became illegal in bars, and I don't recall any bars closing because of that.
If it wasn't for the big money behind it smoking already would be illegal. But they have people in their corner. So they should be happy that it hasn't been made illegal yet and STFU. :)
Good points. It was pretty telling that the largest lobby for the restaurant/bar groups in Hawaii did not oppose the ban. Kind of hard to do when the overwhelming majority of the public supports it.
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In my state, many bars have closed because of it. I play in local bands and have been in bars every weekend for 11 years now. I remember how it was before and after the ban. People have to walk away from their seats and drinks to go outside. They leave. Bars lose business and close.
Strange.
Is there a complete ban on smoking in public places in Florida?
Are all restaurants and bars off-limits for smokers?
Because I cannot recall hearing about what you're telling us from any other place with strict public anti-tobacco laws.
On the contrary, people the drinking is actually up.
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Strange.
Is there a complete ban on smoking in public places in Florida?
Are all restaurants and bars off-limits for smokers?
Because I cannot recall hearing about what you're telling us from any other place with strict public anti-tobacco laws.
On the contrary, people the drinking is actually up.
nah, not a complete ban on public places - just bars and restaurants. A few years back. It was two states - FL and NY I believe - then local municipalities re-upped it when the state bans ended.
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Strange.
Is there a complete ban on smoking in public places in Florida?
Are all restaurants and bars off-limits for smokers?
Because I cannot recall hearing about what you're telling us from any other place with strict public anti-tobacco laws.
On the contrary, people the drinking is actually up.
According to this, Florida does not have a complete ban, even in bars.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0386/PART02.htm
You can still smoke in some bars:
386.2045 Enclosed indoor workplaces; specific exceptions.--Notwithstanding s. 386.204, tobacco smoking may be permitted in each of the following places:
(1) PRIVATE RESIDENCE.--A private residence whenever it is not being used commercially to provide child care, adult care, or health care, or any combination thereof as defined in s. 386.203(1).
(2) RETAIL TOBACCO SHOP.--An enclosed indoor workplace dedicated to or predominantly for the retail sale of tobacco, tobacco products, and accessories for such products, as defined in s. 386.203(8).
(3) DESIGNATED SMOKING GUEST ROOM.--A designated smoking guest room at a public lodging establishment as defined in s. 386.203(4).
(4) STAND-ALONE BAR.--A business that meets the definition of a stand-alone bar as defined in s. 386.203(11) and that otherwise complies with all applicable provisions of the Beverage Law and this part.
(5) SMOKING CESSATION PROGRAM, MEDICAL OR SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH.--An enclosed indoor workplace, to the extent that tobacco smoking is an integral part of a smoking cessation program approved by the department, or medical or scientific research conducted therein. Each room in which tobacco smoking is permitted must comply with the signage requirements in s. 386.206.
(6) CUSTOMS SMOKING ROOM.--A customs smoking room in an airport in-transit lounge under the authority and control of the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection of the United States Department of Homeland Security subject to the restrictions contained in s. 386.205.
History.--s. 5, ch. 2003-398.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0386/SEC2045.HTM&Title=->2007->Ch0386->Section%202045#0386.2045
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(4) STAND-ALONE BAR.--A business that meets the definition of a stand-alone bar as defined in s. 386.203(11) and that otherwise complies with all applicable provisions of the Beverage Law and this part.
Most bars in FL are plaza bars. Not sure if the law sees it differently. Most shops and malls in Fl are plaza based too.
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Owners should be able to decide whether to allow smoking or not.
I understand that it's bad for one's health, but what about civil liberties? I think most people and the government are too obsessive over the whole issue.
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Interesting. If owners agree to do this, doesn't seem like there is anything smokers can do about it, except quit or move.
Posted on: Sunday, May 11, 2008
Hawaii studies living-space smoke ban
Isle group pushing for ban on lighting up in condos, apartments
First it was the workplace, then restaurants and most recently Big Island parks and beaches. Now anti-smoking forces in Hawai'i are setting their sights on apartments and condos.
The Coalition for a Tobacco-Free Hawai'i hopes to convince owners of residential rental and condominium buildings to prohibit smoking inside private living areas.
The nonprofit group argues second-hand smoke emanating from the privacy of one unit may affect others when people live in close quarters.
The state already bans smoking in restaurants, bars and within 20 feet of the entrances or windows of smoke-free buildings.
"As laws like this become the norm, I think people are going to start thinking about how, about where we live," said Hye-ryeon Lee, chairwoman of Tobacco-Free Hawai'i and a University of Hawai'i speech professor.
Smoke-free advocates say residential smoking bans deliver financial benefits to property owners through lower insurance costs because of reduced fire risk, reduced cleaning expenses and fewer problems between neighbors.
But advocates for smokers' rights fume at the notion of not being able to smoke in their own home.
"The assault on smoking in this state is incredible," said Jolyn Tenn, founder of Hawai'i Smokers Alliance and a real estate agent by profession. "I think it's diabolical they (anti-smoking organizers) are now reaching into people's homes. It goes against the constitution. It's fascism."
owner initiatives
Unlike other initiatives to reduce public exposure to second-hand smoke, Tobacco-Free Hawai'i's latest effort is not advocating for a law. The group instead is encouraging owners of condo or apartment complexes to adopt such a ban on their own.
For rentals, the change could be made by a single landlord who amends house rules or a lease.
For condos, the change is more difficult — requiring two-thirds approval of unit owners to modify condo association bylaws.
The impact of such rule changes could be extensive in Hawai'i, where 42 percent of the homes are in multifamily buildings, one of the highest rates in the nation, according to a 2006 Census survey.
To encourage more smoke-free residential buildings, Tobacco-Free Hawai'i has obtained written opinions from the state attorney general and the federal Department of Housing and Urban Development stating that smoking bans by property owners are legal.
In the case of rentals, smoking is not a basis on which discrimination is illegal, as it is with race, age, sex, religion, disability, marital status and other protected classes.
Condo owners can vote to change their living conditions whether it be to allow pets or to prohibit smoking. "Courts have recognized that anyone who buys a unit in a common interest development with knowledge of its owners association's discretionary power accepts the risk that the power may be used in a way that benefits the commonality but harms the individual," the attorney general's opinion states.
However, imposing a restriction on what for many people is an addiction — and applying it in the privacy of one's home — is a controversial idea not easily implemented.
Chris Vogt, a self-employed lab equipment engineer who bought a unit in the Wilder At Pi'ikoi condo in December, said he tries to be a good neighbor by smoking with his lanai door and dryer vent closed, but that he'd be outraged if condo bylaws were changed to ban him from smoking in his unit.
"You're telling people how to live," he said. "I'm all for nonsmokers' rights, but don't tell me what to do in my home."
Mark Doo, an owner in the Craigside high-rise condo in Nu'uanu, said an attempt by the board to restrict smoking inside units in his building was an incendiary issue.
Doo, a nonsmoker who said his wife sometimes wakes up at night because of a neighbor smoking, said the Craigside board compromised by passing a six-month trial rule against smoking on lanais. "The board did this very reluctantly," he said.
At the Ilikai, the condo owners association recently banned smoking on lanais, and at least one board director, Ray Gruntz, advocated for a prohibition on smoking inside units.
"I tried to make (units) smoke free," said Gruntz, a retired New York City police detective who quit smoking 23 years ago after developing health problems. "I can't stand smoke anymore."
Opposition to bill
Earlier this year, the Legislature considered a bill to prohibit smoking in units at state public housing projects, and was largely met with opposition.
Dave Kawika Crowley, co-chair of Hawai'i Smokers Alliance and operator of TheSmokeVote.com, testified against Senate Bill 2408 which he called a needless government intrusion. "I cannot believe I am sitting here witnessing such a moronic waste of legislative time," he said.
Honolulu resident Michael Zehner wrote in testimony that he was "shocked and saddened that there are actually people in the state Senate that have such open contempt for their smoking constituents that they would brazenly sign on to something so awful."
Bob Speck, a retired IBM systems engineer from Hawai'i Kai, testified that in his 40 years of living in Hawai'i he had never seen a more hideous bill introduced.
"It strikes at the very basis of our precious freedom," he said in written testimony. "I am reminded of Nazi Germany."
The Hawai'i Public Housing Authority said it supported a safe and healthy living environment but that it would be difficult to enforce such a no-smoking rule.
In the minority among testifiers on the bill was Jill Friedman, a former public housing tenant on Kaua'i who said she was forced to move out last year after a smoker moved in next door to her.
"Having a neighbor who smokes can be as detrimental to a tenant's health, property and enjoyment of their living space as living with a smoker," she said in written testimony, adding that state public housing officials could not accommodate her with a smoke-free environment despite a doctor's request to do so.
The bill was amended by the Senate Committee on Human Services and Public Housing to prohibit smoking only in some public housing areas including hallways but not inside units. After passage to the House, the measure died.
campaign launched
Tobacco-Free Hawai'i has been engineering its campaign for smoke-free condos and apartments for about a year largely with research about the practice locally and nationally, and the legality of policies.
Recently, the organization launched a Web site, hawaii smokefreehomes.org, with information including form letters to help renters and condo owners petition boards or landlords to adopt smoke-free policies. Tobacco-Free Hawai'i representatives also are available to make presentations to building owners.
Earlier this month, the organization held a seminar featuring Michigan-based tobacco control advocate Jim Bergman, who in 2004 organized a similar campaign in that state.
Bergman said Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show that at least 80 percent of Hawai'i households don't smoke, but that most condo and apartment buildings aren't smoke-free.
"That's the nub of the issue," he said. "You've got a large market demand, but the marketplace is lagging behind it."
Bergman said the Michigan campaign was a success, and produced an extensive list of smoke-free apartments as a consumer resource at mismokefreeapart ment.org.
Also, some condo project developers and rental building owners in other Mainland markets have touted smoke-free policies in marketing materials as a competitive advantage.
A few of the biggest hotel chains in recent years have instituted no-smoking policies in all rooms for similar reasons. Westin, a Starwood brand, and all Marriott brands including Ritz-Carlton made the change nationwide in 2006. Sheraton, another Starwood brand, in February announced plans to ban smoking in all U.S. hotel rooms by the end of this year.
"It's being seen more as an amenity," said Deborah Zysman, Tobacco-Free Hawai'i executive director.
marketing advantage
Still, smoke-free multifamily residences remains largely a concept only.
"I don't think anybody's using it as a marketing advantage," said Ted Walkey, senior vice president of operations for Hawaiiana Management Co., the state's largest residential property management firm.
Tobacco-Free Hawai'i said a survey it conducted last year with the state Department of Health found that 16 percent of local apartment and condo complexes prohibit smoking in units.
However, the survey may overstate the practice if respondents included a large percentage of vacation rental buildings where smoking in units is more commonly prohibited. Zysman could not say to what extent vacation rentals were represented in the survey.
Officials with local real estate firm Prudential Locations said they know of no multi-family residences that ban smoking in units.
Walkey of Hawaiiana Management Co. said some building owners have inquired about establishing smoking bans, but he knows of only one local residential building that prohibits smoking in units — the Hawaiian Princess at Makaha Beach, a 125-unit mix of time-share and resident owners.
"It works," he said.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080511/NEWS01/805110381&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL
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(4) STAND-ALONE BAR.--A business that meets the definition of a stand-alone bar as defined in s. 386.203(11) and that otherwise complies with all applicable provisions of the Beverage Law and this part.
Most bars in FL are plaza bars. Not sure if the law sees it differently. Most shops and malls in Fl are plaza based too.
Well there you go.
As long as you don't have a total ban on smoking for all types of bars, the smokers will just go there.
But if the ban is for all types of bars and such, then it will be a different story I bet.
Then the smokers can't "just go to another place".