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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Stavios on May 13, 2008, 08:43:46 PM

Title: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Stavios on May 13, 2008, 08:43:46 PM
apparently he had health problem after the ASC this year and after the NY PRO

any truth to this and what were the health problems if it is true ?
something to do with dehydratation ?
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: The Coach on May 13, 2008, 08:45:14 PM
apparently he had health problem after the ASC this year and after the NY PRO

any truth to this and what were the health problems if it is true ?
something to do with dehydratation ?

NO WAY, health problems in bodybuilding.....I don't believe it :(
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: marcus on May 13, 2008, 08:46:59 PM
Not enough citrus.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: 240 is Back on May 13, 2008, 08:47:34 PM
I can absolutely assure you it was not scurvy, which comes from not consuming enough vitamin C.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: The_Shadow on May 13, 2008, 08:49:37 PM
Really, I thought boatloads of drugs were healthy, I'm :o.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: OTHstrong on May 13, 2008, 08:52:10 PM
Stavios, you brought this one upon yourself :)
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Stavios on May 13, 2008, 08:59:41 PM
Stavios, you brought this one upon yourself :)

brought what ?

nothing wrong with my question, did he go to the hospital after the show or not ?
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: The_Shadow on May 13, 2008, 09:02:24 PM
brought what ?

nothing wrong with my question, did he go to the hospital after the show or not ?
Will you get a good nights sleep if you don't get an answer. You've got issues!
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: OTHstrong on May 13, 2008, 09:08:42 PM
brought what ?

nothing wrong with my question, did he go to the hospital after the show or not ?
I know your question wasn't stupid, but this is getbig and people will make fun of a question about health and bodybuilding in the same sentence, afterall everybody feels like they need to go to the hospital after a show. To answere your questyion....I don't know.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: tweeter on May 13, 2008, 09:09:29 PM
I can absolutely assure you it was not scurvy, which comes from not consuming enough vitamin C.
The problem is he doesn't realize that you are suppose to eat fruit, not f*ck it.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: The_Shadow on May 13, 2008, 09:12:44 PM
Stavios obviously has some man love issues.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Camel Jockey on May 13, 2008, 09:15:40 PM
The problem is he doesn't realize that you are suppose to eat fruit, not f*ck it.

LOL  ;D
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Milos_Sarcev on May 13, 2008, 10:08:53 PM
While I have no idea what was (IF there was?) a problem with Kai...after the contest - I do want to point out ONE thing...
Numerous competitors in quest to dehydrate themselves sufficiently to please high standards of todays judging criteria - take Rx diuretics and often (so common to bodybuilders) they take MORE THAN ONE...

So, I will share this article (published in European Flex Magazine back in 2005)...

I think that THIS is a very common problem - and MAYBE (just maybe?) some of you guys would be in situation that YOU COULD make a difference and possibly save someone (dehydrated bodybuilding competitor who could be in whole lot of trouble if medical personal decides to act promptly - and after ONLY a visual diagnosis of dehydration /without establishing potassium levels of dehydrated bodybuilder/ they administer electrolyte/with potassium/ IV solution to poor competitor...who is /more than likely/ already HYPERKALEMIC (state of dangerously high levels of potassium in his blood - normally due to usage of potassium sparing diuretics for several days prior to competition...
Here is the article I wrote:

     European Flex, April 2005, HYPERKALEMIA

Q: Milos, I know that you competed more than any other professional bodybuilder and that you assist many other athletes in their contest preparation. I entered two shows in my life and both times got myself in serious trouble by getting myself severely dehydrated. First time I was experiencing painful cramps and I was told to take extra potassium. I eat two bananas and my cramps went away. However, in my second contest those extra bananas didn’t help. I believe I had at least five bananas and with each one - I was only getting worse. Finally, after the contest my wife had to take me to the hospital and doctors told me that I am lucky to be alive! My potassium levels were so high that I could have experienced a heart attack.
Also, they told me that my kidneys were failing and all that scared me so much that I decided to never compete again. Interestingly, two weeks after the show I checked with my doctor again – and he told me that I couldn’t be healthier!?
I remember that doctors in a hospital told me that I had‘ hyperkalemia’ and I was wondering if you are familiar with that term. Also, why do you think I had that problem and should I compete again?

Sincerely,
Jonathan

A: Dear Jonathan I am glad that you’ve asked me that question. In the last fifteen years I have seen with my own eyes and heard from others - really horrific stories about dehydrated bodybuilding competitors that had to be taken to the hospital. To be completely honest – even I got myself in similar situation during my competitive career. Let’s face it – to be competitive in the bodybuilding contest we have to achieve that lean, hard, DRY look that judges seem to like and award.
To be “dehydrated” is expected and accepted ONLY in the sport of bodybuilding!
While medical community would point out to us dangers of even moderate dehydration, we (the bodybuilders) being extremists - would not settle for just moderate and instead we would go “all out” and try for the extreme. Well, extreme is case of dehydration could be – deadly!
Doctor in the hospital did not exaggerate when he told you that you are lucky to be alive.
Your diagnosis was HYPER (too much) Kalemia (potassium) and that is serious medical condition that can lead to cardiac arrest.

Because I am certain that many competitors nowadays get themselves in this “hyperkalemic” state it is very important for me to explain to you HOW DANGEROUS this might be.
I have witnessed more than once (in US and Europe) that when paramedics are called to treat dehydrated bodybuilder – immediately they tend to believe that dehydrated bodybuilder is also hypokalemic (state of potassium deficiency). Many times after asking just a few “diagnostic” questions they would administer IV (intravenous) electrolyte solution or (even worse) IV potassium on the way to the hospital…
If that ever happen to you or someone you know – STOP THEM before is too late!
Putting extra potassium directly into the blood stream of hyperkalemic patient (bodybuilder) could be FATAL!
Unfortunately, physical symptoms of LOW (hypo) or HIGH (hyper) levels of potassium are quite similar.
Hyperkalemic patient (bodybuilder) would experience weakness, fatigue, dizziness, muscle cramps, nausea, vomiting, numbness, confusion, difficult breathing, and increased thirst – all signs of hypokalemia as well!
Paramedics are humans that could make honest mistakes - especially during emergency calls, when they’re rushed to make decisions and sometimes easily influenced by a common practice.
Again, commonly dehydrated patients with all of the above mentioned symptoms would be categorized as hypokalemic and therefore treated as such.
Many of us (in emergency situations) would also overlook the fact that manifestations of hypo and hyperkalemia are so similar. So remember to request for ECG – electrocardiographic test as this test could distinctively show the difference between the two (and if they do that test ask to see “T- wave” which is flattened in “hypo” and peaked in “hyper” and  “P- wave” that shows exactly the opposite). In the hospital doctor would order a blood test to determine levels of potassium. Once established – level of potassium is going to dictate appropriate treatment but I guarantee you – doctor will be grateful that you prevented paramedics in their intentions. For the reference normal values of potassium are 3.5 – 5.3 mmol/L or mEq/L (where serum potassium level under 3.5 is considered HYPOKALEMIA and over 5.3 is HYPERKALEMIA)

Now, you asked - why did you have that problem?
Of course, I cannot be certain but my first guess would be that you (more than likely) used some kind of diuretic (and I would bet – potassium sparing one), continued to eat high potassium containing foods while avoiding sodium and finally – restricted your water intake!
Chronic hyperkalemia (or hyperpotassemia) is serious illness usually caused by renal failure! You said that two weeks after the show you were back to your healthy self – so obviously your condition (high levels of K) was just acute (temporary on the day of your contest) caused by something that you did.
Very, very common potassium-sparing diuretic that bodybuilders use in their contest preparation is “Aldactone” or spironolactone. This particular diuretic became very popular in bodybuilding circuit for its inhibitory action on aldosterone (a hormone in our body that regulates body’s salt and potassium levels).
Last 2-3 days before the show many competitors drastically reduce their sodium intake (some almost completely eliminate it) with hope to lose extracellular water. At the same time they use this prescription diuretic with hope to block aldosterone, which would help them keep intracellular potassium while excreting sodium and water. This way they would be able to achieve that “dry and full” look (winning combination).

This year, after the finals of the Mr. Olympia contest I was having peaceful dinner with my close friends when I received disturbing phone call. It was no other than Shawn Ray who urged me to drop what I was doing and come immediately to Mustafa Mohammed’s room.
Mustafa is my dear friend whom I love like a true brother and when I got that call I was beside myself.
I run as fast as I could hoping that he is OK…Still, I couldn’t help but think that something terrible happened to him.
While I was running I remembered that during his posing routine at the finals he just wasn’t himself.
He is phenomenal poser who always brings breathtaking routines. More often than not – he gets a standing ovation from the audience for a true masterpiece…but this night he just didn’t deliver it.
I saw it on his face (that something might be wrong) but I didn’t really read into it.
As soon as I got there I saw Mustafa on his bed cramped up, dizzy, weak, throwing up…and he told me: “Milos, I feel bad. I mean - very, VERY BAD.”
Medical personal of Mandalay Bay Hotel came to the room and their “medical expert” concluded that Mustafa is severely dehydrated and needs fluids. So, he suggested a Gatorade (NOT a good idea as Gatorade contains potassium). I got in argument with that guy to the point that I yelled at him so laud – he run away from the room.
“Great!” said Shawn “what are we going to do now?”
“Call the ambulance – he needs to go to the hospital. This is SERIOUS!”
In 1992 I witnessed a tragedy when another IFBB pro bodybuilder got himself in the similar situation.
Mohammed Benaziza died that night and I was not going to take a chance with Mustafa.
Paramedics that came shortly after - did EXACTLY what I told you (warn you about it) here.
They also assumed that Mustafa is hypokalemic due to his severe state of dehydration. While they were taking him to the ambulance they were already planning to put him on the “IV electrolytes”.
I jumped in requesting that they absolutely cannot do that – as he was more than likely already hyperkalemic! Mustafa told me that he indeed used “Aldactone” so I was certain that this is the case.
Needless to say – I had to argue with both paramedics and I insisted to get into the ambulance with him.
[To get hydrated (on the way to the hospital) he did receive natrium-chloride and that is OK, but absolutely nothing that contains even smallest amounts of potassium should be used.]
When we arrived into the hospital I had to talk to a doctor who also wasn’t too responsive on my idea that their patient is “hyper” and not “hypo”-kalemic…
Doctors just don’t understand that somebody (we – the bodybuilders) would do that to ourselves. So, they don’t expect it.
Fortunately, in the hospital they would first check the blood, before they would do anything else.
When Mustafa’s result came (8.8 mmol/L) doctor realized that he doesn’t have a “normal situation” and he did admit that such a high amount of potassium could be fatal!
Doctors had to bring his levels of potassium down in a hurry and thankfully – they were very successful.
I must mention that Mustafa’s trouble alarmed a lot of people. Vince Scalissi from the Weider office and IFBB pro chairman Jim Manion were immediately available. Following the ambulance and spending a lot of time in the hospital were also Kris Dim, Kevin Levrone, Shawn and Kristy Ray and a pastor of the Shawn’s church. They all showed great concern and support and Mustafa was very happy to see them.

   
Talking to many competitors throughout the years I realized that this (“Aldactone”, low sodium and restricted water intake) is a common practice. Also (in the last two or three days) during the “carb loading” phase many competitors would choose carbohydrates that are also very high in potassium (bananas, dry fruits, potatoes, other fresh fruits, nuts, some vegetables and meats). One baked potato can have as much as 1000 mg of potassium, banana over 500 mg, cup of peanuts or almonds (for guys on low carb diet) also over a 1000 mg etc, etc
But, what some of the competitors fail to realize is that even the “normal” diet meals like fish, broccoli, chicken breast, asparagus and avocado (for example) can also have thousands of milligrams of potassium per serving!
Average protein portion (10 oz / 300 grams) of chicken is about 700 mg, while the same amount of fish would exceed 1000 mg of potassium per portion! Can you believe that the most common choice of the contest vegetable for most bodybuilders – broccoli has almost 500 mg of K per cup!?
Considering all that bodybuilders should think twice before they reduce their sodium and water intake while they’re reaching for the Aldactone – it is a bomb ready to explode!

In your first contest you probably didn’t use that (or any) diuretic and possibly tried to dehydrate yourself with more conventional (natural) methods. In that case you reached mild level of dehydration and mineral imbalance. As you said - two bananas with merely 1000 mg of potassium solved your cramping problem!
Should you compete again?
That decision must be yours. If you are concerned about your health (and you should be) don’t experiment with something that you don’t know enough about. Follow the sound nutritional program and remember that even a slight mineral and water manipulation can get you desirable results (don’t go for the extreme).
Several weeks before your next contest start using exact foods and amounts of particular minerals every day of the week. Than try to manipulate them just enough so you can reach healthy dehydrated state (without any muscle cramps) on exact day that you would want to “peak”.
If you have several weeks to practice I am certain (or at least confident enough) that you will find safe and effective method of mild dehydration (necessary for bodybuilding competition) that would not be deleterious to your kidneys, heart or health in general.

Good luck!

Until the next time,
Milos Sarcev


Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: mac7000 on May 13, 2008, 10:37:49 PM
Very interseting post milos but I just want to verify a couple things.

1. Paramedics don't carry potassium... they carry 0.9 normal saline which is a salt solution.

2. Milos you were right by tellling that guy not to give gatorade but in that situation with someone vomitting IV access is the best route and the medics would have administered 0.9 saline.

3. If your in an ER and you want to convince the Dr. that a patient is hyperkalemic have them put on a heart monitor and it will show an elevated S-T segment which is indicative of hyperkalemia. Paramedics should know this as well.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Matt C on May 13, 2008, 10:54:29 PM
Very interseting post milos but I just want to verify a couple things.

1. Paramedics don't carry potassium... they carry 0.9 normal saline which is a salt solution.

2. Milos you were right by tellling that guy not to give gatorade but in that situation with someone vomitting IV access is the best route and the medics would have administered 0.9 saline.

3. If your in an ER and you want to convince the Dr. that a patient is hyperkalemic have them put on a heart monitor and it will show an elevated S-T segment which is indicative of hyperkalemia. Paramedics should know this as well.

This is interesting that your post seems to be well informed and articulate yet you spelled "you're" wrong.  Maybe I have misjudged people spelling it wrong, and perhaps it is just an easy mistake to make and not one which reflects more broadly on their spelling abilities or intelligence.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: arce377 on May 13, 2008, 11:44:57 PM
Milos = IFBB Legend.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: mac7000 on May 13, 2008, 11:57:41 PM
This is interesting that your post seems to be well informed and articulate yet you spelled "you're" wrong.  Maybe I have misjudged people spelling it wrong, and perhaps it is just an easy mistake to make and not one which reflects more broadly on their spelling abilities or intelligence.
[/quote







So pretty much you have nothing to add to my post other than my grammatical error.... pure genius on your part.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 12:04:44 AM
So pretty much you have nothing to add to my post other than my grammatical error.... pure genius on your part.

Actually, my point was that your post came across intelligently and that I have a tendency to assume people are not smart when they misspell obvious words.  If you read what I wrote (and it doesn't appear you did because the conclusion seemed to escape you), you would have noticed that I was second guessing my profiling when it comes to people who use bad grammar as it relates to my assumptions about their intelligence, since you appeared to be intelligent as expressed through your knowledge of emergency care.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: marcus on May 14, 2008, 12:12:42 AM
Actually, my point was that your post came across intelligently and that I have a tendency to assume people are not smart when they misspell obvious words.  If you read what I wrote (and it doesn't appear you did because the conclusion seemed to escape you), you would have noticed that I was second guessing my profiling when it comes to people who use bad grammar as it relates to my assumptions about their intelligence, since you appeared to be intelligent as expressed through your knowledge of emergency care.

What about gh? Think he's retarded or doing it on purpose?
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: phyxsius on May 14, 2008, 12:13:30 AM
apparently he had health problem after the ASC this year and after the NY PRO

any truth to this and what were the health problems if it is true ?
something to do with dehydratation ?

yes it's true.. thanks to musclephone.. now you guys are talking about some old stories
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: HTexan on May 14, 2008, 12:14:04 AM
sizaN gnillepS
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 12:18:20 AM
What about gh? Think he's retarded or doing it on purpose?

I think gh15 is extremely smart when it comes to everything in bodybuilding.  As for other topics, I think he speaks about them much like a normal bright person would, but his fault lies in exhibiting the same level of confidence to regular topics as he does in bodybuilding topics where he is clearly much smarter.  Basically I'm saying he knows bodybuilding very well.  Better than me, and better than most on the board I would say.  Having said that, I'm not saying he is always right when it comes to bodybuilding, but from my vantage point, he has a damn good track record.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Ron on May 14, 2008, 12:25:37 AM
Quote
This is interesting that your post seems to be well informed and articulate yet you spelled "you're" wrong.  Maybe I have misjudged people spelling it wrong, and perhaps it is just an easy mistake to make and not one which reflects more broadly on their spelling abilities or intelligence.

I spell things wrong all of the time, as I do with grammer. Such is life. Boo hooh. We are not writing terms papers, or having our editors proof read anything. We are here after a long's day work writing our thoughts and comments, without pushing that spell check botton each time.

Quote
KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?

Kai at the Arnold Classic wasnt doing too well before the finals, but not sure if he wasnt sick or something.

There are rumors of Kai not feeling well for the NY Pro show either, but apparently, he won the show with ease.  Kai should rest for a while, and decide soon on whether he is going to compete in the O or wait for the 2009 Arnold.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 12:40:31 AM
I spell things wrong all of the time, as I do with grammer. Such is life. Boo hooh. We are not writing terms papers, or having our editors proof read anything. We are here after a long's day work writing our thoughts and comments, without pushing that spell check botton each time.

Kai at the Arnold Classic wasnt doing too well before the finals, but not sure if he wasnt sick or something.

There are rumors of Kai not feeling well for the NY Pro show either, but apparently, he won the show with ease.  Kai should rest for a while, and decide soon on whether he is going to compete in the O or wait for the 2009 Arnold.


No, I would say that it depends on the typo.

For example, you misspelled "wasnt", but that is no big deal since you obviously simply forgot to punch a key.  The distinction between "your" and "you're" is a little more serious.  It seems to me as if people who confuse the two don't understand the distinction.  It really reflects more broadly on their grammatical ability.  Typos are one thing, but grammatical errors in spelling is another thing.  But hey, maybe I'm wrong on that.  :)
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 12:52:59 AM
Also, check this out (I'm white):

http://www.chess.com/play/computer.html
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: HTexan on May 14, 2008, 12:55:19 AM
i do capitalize shit because hitting the shift key sucks. ;D
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: The Master on May 14, 2008, 02:32:16 AM
Also, check this out (I'm white):
b]


Why = Debussey not suprised? ;D
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on May 14, 2008, 02:46:00 AM
While I have no idea what was (IF there was?) a problem with Kai...after the contest - I do want to point out ONE thing...
Numerous competitors in quest to dehydrate themselves sufficiently to please high standards of todays judging criteria - take Rx diuretics and often (so common to bodybuilders) they take MORE THAN ONE...

So, I will share this article (published in European Flex Magazine back in 2005)...

I think that THIS is a very common problem - and MAYBE (just maybe?) some of you guys would be in situation that YOU COULD make a difference and possibly save someone (dehydrated bodybuilding competitor who could be in whole lot of trouble if medical personal decides to act promptly - and after ONLY a visual diagnosis of dehydration /without establishing potassium levels of dehydrated bodybuilder/ they administer electrolyte/with potassium/ IV solution to poor competitor...who is /more than likely/ already HYPERKALEMIC (state of dangerously high levels of potassium in his blood - normally due to usage of potassium sparing diuretics for several days prior to competition...
Here is the article I wrote:

     European Flex, April 2005, HYPERKALEMIA

Q: Milos, I know that you competed more than any other professional bodybuilder and that you assist many other athletes in their contest preparation. I entered two shows in my life and both times got myself in serious trouble by getting myself severely dehydrated. First time I was experiencing painful cramps and I was told to take extra potassium. I eat two bananas and my cramps went away. However, in my second contest those extra bananas didn’t help. I believe I had at least five bananas and with each one - I was only getting worse. Finally, after the contest my wife had to take me to the hospital and doctors told me that I am lucky to be alive! My potassium levels were so high that I could have experienced a heart attack.
Also, they told me that my kidneys were failing and all that scared me so much that I decided to never compete again. Interestingly, two weeks after the show I checked with my doctor again – and he told me that I couldn’t be healthier!?
I remember that doctors in a hospital told me that I had‘ hyperkalemia’ and I was wondering if you are familiar with that term. Also, why do you think I had that problem and should I compete again?

Sincerely,
Jonathan

A: Dear Jonathan I am glad that you’ve asked me that question. In the last fifteen years I have seen with my own eyes and heard from others - really horrific stories about dehydrated bodybuilding competitors that had to be taken to the hospital. To be completely honest – even I got myself in similar situation during my competitive career. Let’s face it – to be competitive in the bodybuilding contest we have to achieve that lean, hard, DRY look that judges seem to like and award.
To be “dehydrated” is expected and accepted ONLY in the sport of bodybuilding!
While medical community would point out to us dangers of even moderate dehydration, we (the bodybuilders) being extremists - would not settle for just moderate and instead we would go “all out” and try for the extreme. Well, extreme is case of dehydration could be – deadly!
Doctor in the hospital did not exaggerate when he told you that you are lucky to be alive.
Your diagnosis was HYPER (too much) Kalemia (potassium) and that is serious medical condition that can lead to cardiac arrest.

Because I am certain that many competitors nowadays get themselves in this “hyperkalemic” state it is very important for me to explain to you HOW DANGEROUS this might be.
I have witnessed more than once (in US and Europe) that when paramedics are called to treat dehydrated bodybuilder – immediately they tend to believe that dehydrated bodybuilder is also hypokalemic (state of potassium deficiency). Many times after asking just a few “diagnostic” questions they would administer IV (intravenous) electrolyte solution or (even worse) IV potassium on the way to the hospital…
If that ever happen to you or someone you know – STOP THEM before is too late!
Putting extra potassium directly into the blood stream of hyperkalemic patient (bodybuilder) could be FATAL!
Unfortunately, physical symptoms of LOW (hypo) or HIGH (hyper) levels of potassium are quite similar.
Hyperkalemic patient (bodybuilder) would experience weakness, fatigue, dizziness, muscle cramps, nausea, vomiting, numbness, confusion, difficult breathing, and increased thirst – all signs of hypokalemia as well!
Paramedics are humans that could make honest mistakes - especially during emergency calls, when they’re rushed to make decisions and sometimes easily influenced by a common practice.
Again, commonly dehydrated patients with all of the above mentioned symptoms would be categorized as hypokalemic and therefore treated as such.
Many of us (in emergency situations) would also overlook the fact that manifestations of hypo and hyperkalemia are so similar. So remember to request for ECG – electrocardiographic test as this test could distinctively show the difference between the two (and if they do that test ask to see “T- wave” which is flattened in “hypo” and peaked in “hyper” and  “P- wave” that shows exactly the opposite). In the hospital doctor would order a blood test to determine levels of potassium. Once established – level of potassium is going to dictate appropriate treatment but I guarantee you – doctor will be grateful that you prevented paramedics in their intentions. For the reference normal values of potassium are 3.5 – 5.3 mmol/L or mEq/L (where serum potassium level under 3.5 is considered HYPOKALEMIA and over 5.3 is HYPERKALEMIA)

Now, you asked - why did you have that problem?
Of course, I cannot be certain but my first guess would be that you (more than likely) used some kind of diuretic (and I would bet – potassium sparing one), continued to eat high potassium containing foods while avoiding sodium and finally – restricted your water intake!
Chronic hyperkalemia (or hyperpotassemia) is serious illness usually caused by renal failure! You said that two weeks after the show you were back to your healthy self – so obviously your condition (high levels of K) was just acute (temporary on the day of your contest) caused by something that you did.
Very, very common potassium-sparing diuretic that bodybuilders use in their contest preparation is “Aldactone” or spironolactone. This particular diuretic became very popular in bodybuilding circuit for its inhibitory action on aldosterone (a hormone in our body that regulates body’s salt and potassium levels).
Last 2-3 days before the show many competitors drastically reduce their sodium intake (some almost completely eliminate it) with hope to lose extracellular water. At the same time they use this prescription diuretic with hope to block aldosterone, which would help them keep intracellular potassium while excreting sodium and water. This way they would be able to achieve that “dry and full” look (winning combination).

This year, after the finals of the Mr. Olympia contest I was having peaceful dinner with my close friends when I received disturbing phone call. It was no other than Shawn Ray who urged me to drop what I was doing and come immediately to Mustafa Mohammed’s room.
Mustafa is my dear friend whom I love like a true brother and when I got that call I was beside myself.
I run as fast as I could hoping that he is OK…Still, I couldn’t help but think that something terrible happened to him.
While I was running I remembered that during his posing routine at the finals he just wasn’t himself.
He is phenomenal poser who always brings breathtaking routines. More often than not – he gets a standing ovation from the audience for a true masterpiece…but this night he just didn’t deliver it.
I saw it on his face (that something might be wrong) but I didn’t really read into it.
As soon as I got there I saw Mustafa on his bed cramped up, dizzy, weak, throwing up…and he told me: “Milos, I feel bad. I mean - very, VERY BAD.”
Medical personal of Mandalay Bay Hotel came to the room and their “medical expert” concluded that Mustafa is severely dehydrated and needs fluids. So, he suggested a Gatorade (NOT a good idea as Gatorade contains potassium). I got in argument with that guy to the point that I yelled at him so laud – he run away from the room.
“Great!” said Shawn “what are we going to do now?”
“Call the ambulance – he needs to go to the hospital. This is SERIOUS!”
In 1992 I witnessed a tragedy when another IFBB pro bodybuilder got himself in the similar situation.
Mohammed Benaziza died that night and I was not going to take a chance with Mustafa.
Paramedics that came shortly after - did EXACTLY what I told you (warn you about it) here.
They also assumed that Mustafa is hypokalemic due to his severe state of dehydration. While they were taking him to the ambulance they were already planning to put him on the “IV electrolytes”.
I jumped in requesting that they absolutely cannot do that – as he was more than likely already hyperkalemic! Mustafa told me that he indeed used “Aldactone” so I was certain that this is the case.
Needless to say – I had to argue with both paramedics and I insisted to get into the ambulance with him.
[To get hydrated (on the way to the hospital) he did receive natrium-chloride and that is OK, but absolutely nothing that contains even smallest amounts of potassium should be used.]
When we arrived into the hospital I had to talk to a doctor who also wasn’t too responsive on my idea that their patient is “hyper” and not “hypo”-kalemic…
Doctors just don’t understand that somebody (we – the bodybuilders) would do that to ourselves. So, they don’t expect it.
Fortunately, in the hospital they would first check the blood, before they would do anything else.
When Mustafa’s result came (8.8 mmol/L) doctor realized that he doesn’t have a “normal situation” and he did admit that such a high amount of potassium could be fatal!
Doctors had to bring his levels of potassium down in a hurry and thankfully – they were very successful.
I must mention that Mustafa’s trouble alarmed a lot of people. Vince Scalissi from the Weider office and IFBB pro chairman Jim Manion were immediately available. Following the ambulance and spending a lot of time in the hospital were also Kris Dim, Kevin Levrone, Shawn and Kristy Ray and a pastor of the Shawn’s church. They all showed great concern and support and Mustafa was very happy to see them.

   
Talking to many competitors throughout the years I realized that this (“Aldactone”, low sodium and restricted water intake) is a common practice. Also (in the last two or three days) during the “carb loading” phase many competitors would choose carbohydrates that are also very high in potassium (bananas, dry fruits, potatoes, other fresh fruits, nuts, some vegetables and meats). One baked potato can have as much as 1000 mg of potassium, banana over 500 mg, cup of peanuts or almonds (for guys on low carb diet) also over a 1000 mg etc, etc
But, what some of the competitors fail to realize is that even the “normal” diet meals like fish, broccoli, chicken breast, asparagus and avocado (for example) can also have thousands of milligrams of potassium per serving!
Average protein portion (10 oz / 300 grams) of chicken is about 700 mg, while the same amount of fish would exceed 1000 mg of potassium per portion! Can you believe that the most common choice of the contest vegetable for most bodybuilders – broccoli has almost 500 mg of K per cup!?
Considering all that bodybuilders should think twice before they reduce their sodium and water intake while they’re reaching for the Aldactone – it is a bomb ready to explode!

In your first contest you probably didn’t use that (or any) diuretic and possibly tried to dehydrate yourself with more conventional (natural) methods. In that case you reached mild level of dehydration and mineral imbalance. As you said - two bananas with merely 1000 mg of potassium solved your cramping problem!
Should you compete again?
That decision must be yours. If you are concerned about your health (and you should be) don’t experiment with something that you don’t know enough about. Follow the sound nutritional program and remember that even a slight mineral and water manipulation can get you desirable results (don’t go for the extreme).
Several weeks before your next contest start using exact foods and amounts of particular minerals every day of the week. Than try to manipulate them just enough so you can reach healthy dehydrated state (without any muscle cramps) on exact day that you would want to “peak”.
If you have several weeks to practice I am certain (or at least confident enough) that you will find safe and effective method of mild dehydration (necessary for bodybuilding competition) that would not be deleterious to your kidneys, heart or health in general.

Good luck!

Until the next time,
Milos Sarcev




What do you think about Phil Hernon's tip?  :D

Quote from: Phil Hernon
I wil give you one of my trade secrets to help you avoid cramping or possibly death during a competition.

1.Get yourself a pack of insulin syringes
2. 1 bottle pedialyte (sealed)
If you cannot drink fluids and are cramping before a show, mainline in your arm 1 cc pedialyte or more until cramping no longer exists.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Bix on May 14, 2008, 02:49:35 AM
No, I would say that it depends on the typo.

For example, you misspelled "wasnt", but that is no big deal since you obviously simply forgot to punch a key.  The distinction between "your" and "you're" is a little more serious.  It seems to me as if people who confuse the two don't understand the distinction.  It really reflects more broadly on their grammatical ability.  Typos are one thing, but grammatical errors in spelling is another thing.  But hey, maybe I'm wrong on that.  :)

I think or hope that as you grow older you'll be less likely to jump at every chance you get to discuss who's smarter than who. ::)
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Meso_z on May 14, 2008, 03:07:33 AM
What do you think about Phil Hernon's tip?  :D


Now we know who gh15 is.  ;D
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: jason armstrong on May 14, 2008, 04:09:28 AM
apparently he had health problem after the ASC this year and after the NY PRO

any truth to this and what were the health problems if it is true ?
something to do with dehydratation ?

a bodybuilder with a dehydration probelm after a show? my my never heard that one before ::)
now that's a new one! :o
  :-X
thanks for posting the breaking news! :-*

just kidding Stavy!!
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: jason armstrong on May 14, 2008, 04:14:46 AM
No, I would say that it depends on the typo.

For example, you misspelled "wasnt", but that is no big deal since you obviously simply forgot to punch a key.  The distinction between "your" and "you're" is a little more serious.  It seems to me as if people who confuse the two don't understand the distinction.  It really reflects more broadly on their grammatical ability.  Typos are one thing, but grammatical errors in spelling is another thing.  But hey, maybe I'm wrong on that.  :)

Doood c'mon withe tha spelll chek shat!!!  ::) Fixed.  Dude, Come on with the spell check shit!!! ;D
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: jason armstrong on May 14, 2008, 04:19:55 AM

Kai at the Arnold Classic wasnt doing too well before the finals, but not sure if he wasnt sick or something.

There are rumors of Kai not feeling well for the NY Pro show either, but apparently, he won the show with ease.  Kai should rest for a while, and decide soon on whether he is going to compete in the O or wait for the 2009 Arnold.

compeition is very stressful on the body...Ron called it right when people were commenting how out of shape kai was a week out of the NY pro...and ron said hed be in shape and win the NY pro Ron knows his shit about bb'ing.

these guys hormone load sodium load water load carb load tons of stuff to superhydrate then dehydrate and barely make it through a show and then blow back up with water again after the show...really the most unhealthy aspect of it...
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: dr.chimps on May 14, 2008, 04:36:40 AM
This is interesting that your post seems to be well informed and articulate yet you spelled "you're" wrong.  Maybe I have misjudged people spelling it wrong, and perhaps it is just an easy mistake to make and not one which reflects more broadly on their spelling abilities or intelligence.
::) 
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: wannahit2 on May 14, 2008, 04:41:36 AM
Kai is fine, he was fatigued and had a stomach virus.  The stomach virus is going around these parts of New York right now. It's about a 2-3 day virus of vomiting and crapping. Saw Kai on Monday and he is fine.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: 240 is Back on May 14, 2008, 05:02:49 AM
Paramedics damn near killed Mustafa? Wow...
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: dr.chimps on May 14, 2008, 05:08:24 AM
Paramedics damn near killed Mustafa? Wow...
Rectum?...... ;)
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: jason armstrong on May 14, 2008, 05:33:09 AM
how come all these stomach viruses hang around backstage at buddybuilding shows all the times?? ;D :-*
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: toolarge4u on May 14, 2008, 06:04:15 AM
I went through milo's exact scenerio from spiralaldactazide and my guy was puking and dying basically from too much potassium. Course they did listen to me and got him healthy very quick and he was out and on his feet in a day. They went another route though, they used dextrose and insulin. Also anti nausau medicine. Worked like a charm. Problem with BB'ers is you give them potassium sparring dirueitcs and exact instructions sometimes they still dont listen and do there own thing. They learn quick on there death bed though
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: columbusdude82 on May 14, 2008, 06:11:32 AM
All these dehydration/diuretics threads make me wonder why any young man in his right mind would want to get into competitive bodybuilding in the first place? ???

Stavios, what is your own opinion on the use of diuretics and on dehydration?
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Vince G, CSN MFT on May 14, 2008, 07:35:53 AM
Paramedics damn near killed Mustafa? Wow...


No, Milos and Mustafa himself almost killed Mustafa.  While I applaud the great thinking of Milo's, the fact is that he was his contest prep coach and is just as responsible for this mess. 


Now Milo's is going around telling people how great it is to use insulin for bodybuilding gains.  After couple of tragedies waiting to happen thanks to the mind... ::)
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: 240 is Back on May 14, 2008, 07:42:01 AM
Insulin has been in use for 15 years now.  I don't see anyone dying from that (not at shows... ten years down the road, oh yea, very possible)

dehydration/potassium imbalances are what kills guys.  and it's their choice.  they can't act naive like "I didn't know this was bad for me".

I worry about kai greene.  he has that suicidal conditioning, the graininess that dorian had.  He's pushing the envelope like others are not.  I belieev MD reported he was homeless 3-4 years ago.  Living like that might have given him the mindset of "damn the future, I'm living for today".  Couple reported sickness at the last 2 shows with his grainy conditioning... I really hope he takes a break, and is very careful at upcoming shows.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Milos_Sarcev on May 14, 2008, 09:41:01 AM
I went through milo's exact scenerio from spiralaldactazide and my guy was puking and dying basically from too much potassium. Course they did listen to me and got him healthy very quick and he was out and on his feet in a day. They went another route though, they used dextrose and insulin. Also anti nausau medicine. Worked like a charm. Problem with BB'ers is you give them potassium sparring dirueitcs and exact instructions sometimes they still dont listen and do there own thing. They learn quick on there death bed though

That is actually common practice...

Using INSULIN - to PUSH POTASSIUM OUT OF BLOOD INTO... ;)- never mind...maybe some would actually guess...

Ever wondered what else INSULIN is good for?
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: mac7000 on May 14, 2008, 09:47:07 AM
Actually, my point was that your post came across intelligently and that I have a tendency to assume people are not smart when they misspell obvious words.  If you read what I wrote (and it doesn't appear you did because the conclusion seemed to escape you), you would have noticed that I was second guessing my profiling when it comes to people who use bad grammar as it relates to my assumptions about their intelligence, since you appeared to be intelligent as expressed through your knowledge of emergency care.




Well put, I still think all your posts in this thread are distractors and add nothing to the discussion. I am not highly intelligent I just know all little about emergency medicine.




Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Stavios on May 14, 2008, 10:07:00 AM
I prefer not dehydrating at all !

but that's just me  :)
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Necrosis on May 14, 2008, 10:14:07 AM
No, I would say that it depends on the typo.

For example, you misspelled "wasnt", but that is no big deal since you obviously simply forgot to punch a key.  The distinction between "your" and "you're" is a little more serious.  It seems to me as if people who confuse the two don't understand the distinction.  It really reflects more broadly on their grammatical ability.  Typos are one thing, but grammatical errors in spelling is another thing.  But hey, maybe I'm wrong on that.  :)

is there something wrong with you? you're an idiot with your long winded rantings. Possible self esteem issues?
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: dr.chimps on May 14, 2008, 10:18:39 AM
is there something wrong with you? you're an idiot with your long winded rantings. Possible self esteem issues?
No, he is just more 'intelligent' than the rest of us, and he doesn't want us to forget it.  :-\
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: columbusdude82 on May 14, 2008, 10:21:23 AM
I prefer not dehydrating at all !

but that's just me  :)

You are a wise man, Stavios.

Will you do my contest prep next year? 8)
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Milos_Sarcev on May 14, 2008, 11:00:55 AM
Very interseting post milos but I just want to verify a couple things.

1. Paramedics don't carry potassium... they carry 0.9 normal saline which is a salt solution.

2. Milos you were right by tellling that guy not to give gatorade but in that situation with someone vomitting IV access is the best route and the medics would have administered 0.9 saline.

3. If your in an ER and you want to convince the Dr. that a patient is hyperkalemic have them put on a heart monitor and it will show an elevated S-T segment which is indicative of hyperkalemia. Paramedics should know this as well.

Doctor in Midelharnis (spelling?) near Den Hag in Holland did exactly that - administer POTASSIUM to dehydrated yet already hyperkalemic Momo Benaziza...

Paramedics in Las Vegas and week later in Amsterdam also - did not plan to use saline but instead high potassium containing electrolyte solution WHICH I STOP them from using in both occasions.

I don't know what is normal procedure - and when I saw in Mandalay Bay that Paramedics are about to kill Mustafa - I interfered !

They were actually telling me to leave and NOT interfere with life-saving medical procedure...

When I asked IF electrolyte solution DOES have potassium and got affirmative answer - I insisted they cannot touch Mustafa - until they check his potassium levels...
I told them that saline solution which is potassium free IS the ONLY thing they could/should use - BEFORE they check Mustafa's blood levels of Potassium...

Paramedic actually tried to push me as he was going to escort me out of the room...which turned into me grabbing his arm and escorting him out of the room...with few words of choice with slightly higher tone of voice ::)...which resulted in Paramedics departure without a patient...and Shawn's comment: "Great job Milos - what are we going to do now?"

Anyway, I was little bit more political next time around - so before next group came to Mustafa's room - I prepared a speech - stating ALDACTONE, potassium sparing diuretic, HYPERKALEMIA...in every sentence - making point that under no circumstances they should even consider poking Mustafa with IV-Potassium of any kind...

I insisted to go IN Paramedics car WITH Mustafa to make sure nobody makes mistake...

In the hospital - after Paramedics reported to doctor on duty what happened - I got little speech:
"Sir, you understand that you were interfering with URGENT medical procedure...and our trained medical personal...bla-bla-bla..."

I jumped in with: "Excuse me - are you going to check his Potassium levels first?"

As the answer was: "Certainly..." I suggested: "Can we have this conversation AFTER results are in?"

Needless to say - I got apology from the doctor and conformation that indeed his potassium was so high - that even slightest increase of already super-high levels WOULD possibly be fatal.

Six days later now in Europe...exactly in the Drug-free Capital of the world (AMSTERDAM) - Mustafa arranged lovely DEJA-VU...(as I described in the article...)

With Ronnie Coleman, Kris Dim...big Steve Wainberger, Lilly (promoter of the show) ...and few others we had SAME CONCERNS - explaining to Paramedics that IN BODYBUILDING - DEHYDRATED DOESN'T MEAN AUTOMATICALLY HYPOKALEMIC...and in case they don't expect that (after all 1992 I witnessed with my own eyes what wrong assumption could lead to...and to make things worse - tragic experience /Momo Benaziza/ ..that I've witnessed during the 1992 European Grand Prix Tour WAS in the SAME country - HOLLAND...) - somebody should inform them...

And really - I had a hard time explaining to Paramedics first and later - doctor in a hospital in Amsterdam that Mustafa is CERTAINLY not hypokalemic...as they assumed from simple observation...

Doctor was actually mad - and telling me: are you (meaning: BODYBUILDERS) stupid?
There are easier way to commit suicide than that...

Why would anyone in their clear mind take high dosage of potassium sparing diuretics for days and simultaneously restrict or better yet stop completely drinking water while loading on potassium?

And that is DOCTOR IN (as I pointed out "Drug-free" capital of the Universe...) A-M-S-T-E-R-D-A-M...guy that have seen EVERYTHING and ANYTHING...and - did I say everything...as EVERY - THING...!

Well doc...I agree with you...but in order to answer that question you must realize there are two things necessary for "clear mind"...CLARITY and MIND...both often missing in bodybuilding practitioners - especially in their pre-contest dieting period...

So.../don't you love my laconic: "yes - no" answers...BTW/...to answer your question: I was NOT AWARE what Paramedics do in their order of importance and effective procedures...acting on medical emergencies...
In matter of just one calendar week (7 days) - I found out in a hurry that - not just in US...but worldwide...you better BE CAREFUL when you give your trust to medical personal - that can coast you...your life!

For some reason doctors are not really explaining what are they planning to do...and I often wondered WHY?

I suggest that you (all of us) should ALWAYS ask doctors WHAT EXACTLY ARE YOU GOING TO DO?

As, I am sure more often than not - there are number of things we (bodybuilders...37.5% drug-free bodybuilders to be more precise) have FEW things to tell our doctors BEFORE they decide WHAT they really need to do with us...IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?




Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Van_Bilderass on May 14, 2008, 11:01:15 AM
Insulin has been in use for 15 years now.  I don't see anyone dying from that (not at shows... ten years down the road, oh yea, very possible)

dehydration/potassium imbalances are what kills guys.  and it's their choice.  they can't act naive like "I didn't know this was bad for me".

I worry about kai greene.  he has that suicidal conditioning, the graininess that dorian had.  He's pushing the envelope like others are not.  I belieev MD reported he was homeless 3-4 years ago.  Living like that might have given him the mindset of "damn the future, I'm living for today".  Couple reported sickness at the last 2 shows with his grainy conditioning... I really hope he takes a break, and is very careful at upcoming shows.

I don't agree that Kai has 'Dorian graininess'. He has the gh/insulin look, very cut but not extremely grainy like DY.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: McFarland on May 14, 2008, 11:37:00 AM
No, I would say that it depends on the typo.

For example, you misspelled "wasnt", but that is no big deal since you obviously simply forgot to punch a key.  The distinction between "your" and "you're" is a little more serious.  It seems to me as if people who confuse the two don't understand the distinction.  It really reflects more broadly on their grammatical ability.  Typos are one thing, but grammatical errors in spelling is another thing.  But hey, maybe I'm wrong on that.  :)

It's all in the name of communication and I don't think there are gonna be many times where someone uses "your" instead of "you're" and have their point misconstrued.  "your" is actually a more efficient way of communicating...less key strokes in many cases, with no loss of intended message in most cases.  Your paragraph chiding the poor bastard for incorrect technicalities, however, is a total waste of space, energy, bandwidth, etc. if you ask me.   ;D
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 11:39:21 AM
It's all in the name of communication and I don't think there are gonna be many times where someone uses "your" instead of "you're" and have their point misconstrued.  "your" is actually a more efficient way of communicating...less key strokes in many cases, with no loss of intended message in most cases.  Your paragraph chiding the poor bastard for incorrect technicalities, however, is a total waste of space, energy, bandwidth, etc. if you ask me.   ;D

True.

What do you deadlift, McFarland?


Why = Debussey not suprised? ;D

LOL!!!
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: RYAN1 on May 14, 2008, 11:59:32 AM
I was backstage and yes he did have some serious Health Issues!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ENOUG SAID?
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 12:03:15 PM
I was backstage and yes he did have some serious Health Issues!!!!!!!!!!!!!   ENOUG SAID?

I'm assuming dehydration?  Have any additional details you can share?
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: jason armstrong on May 14, 2008, 12:21:16 PM
I prefer not dehydrating at all !

but that's just me  :)

you need too seriously bro!
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 12:34:45 PM
you need too seriously bro!

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=215029.0;attach=251732;image)

That's Stavios?  Wow, he's huge.  What does he deadlift?
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: OTHstrong on May 14, 2008, 12:37:13 PM
you need too seriously bro!
This is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. Reality is dehydrating is a must. Be smart, educate yourself and don't be lazy not to read Milos posts
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: HTexan on May 14, 2008, 01:06:24 PM

Ever wondered what else INSULIN is good for?
becoming diabetic.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Matt C on May 14, 2008, 01:29:24 PM



Well put, I still think all your posts in this thread are distractors and add nothing to the discussion. I am not highly intelligent I just know all little about emergency medicine.






Yes, true, what I say sometimes is a little off topic.  ;D
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Vince G, CSN MFT on May 14, 2008, 02:01:36 PM
That is actually common practice...

Using INSULIN - to PUSH POTASSIUM OUT OF BLOOD INTO... ;)- never mind...maybe some would actually guess...

Ever wondered what else INSULIN is good for?


Just because its common practice doesn't mean its safe to use.  Insulin should never be used for bodybuilding...period.  It is the most dumbest thing ever to do next to Synthol...and you have a lot of experience at doing stupid things to compete.


And if you're wondering why I've been pissed at you, its because you quoting people different prices for distribution of your products at the Mr. O including myself.  Then you have the nerve to put up a 50% off on all products only a few weeks later which pretty much undercut every dealer who did take you up on your offer

Seriously, Milos don't you not think that us store owners don't check with each other on pricing quotes for products.  You should have called Europa Sports to distribute your products.  Good luck in passing off your wares
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: columbusdude82 on May 14, 2008, 02:05:13 PM
Vince, did you get very dehydrated when you competed? Did you use diuretics at all?
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: UpTheDosage on May 15, 2008, 02:33:45 AM
Vince, did you get very dehydrated when you competed? Did you use diuretics at all?

HAHAHA. . . Yes Vince please share with us what you do to acheive your superior dryness!
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Stavios on May 15, 2008, 07:43:14 AM
you need too seriously bro!

that was a 6 weeks out picture you imbecile

Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: SAMSON123 on May 15, 2008, 08:28:45 AM
This is interesting that your post seems to be well informed and articulate yet you spelled "you're" wrong.  Maybe I have misjudged people spelling it wrong, and perhaps it is just an easy mistake to make and not one which reflects more broadly on their spelling abilities or intelligence.

Matt you really need to get off of YOUR ego and give it a rest. Given the importance of the information bestowed by Milos and Mac7000 for you to nitpick over the post in the fashion in which you have done is mind boggling and shows signs of impotence within yourself in regards to feeling MORE 'intelligent' than someone else because you spotted a (if I dare say) flaw....

Let me point out to you that in your post a coma is NOT used in a sentence when it is follwed by AND...case in point
"wrong, and perhaps"

the correct thing would have been to remove the COMA and the AND... inserted a COLON, which would have made the sentence structure better. Case in point...(corrected)

"Maybe I have misjudged people spelling it wrong; perhaps it is just an easy mistake to make..."

Just a heads up for you.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: toolarge4u on May 15, 2008, 11:06:23 AM
That is actually common practice...

Using INSULIN - to PUSH POTASSIUM OUT OF BLOOD INTO... ;)- never mind...maybe some would actually guess...

Ever wondered what else INSULIN is good for?

I know the answer, i gave the dr the protocol. And i leanred it from you LOL...thanks.
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Matt C on May 15, 2008, 11:35:52 AM
Matt you really need to get off of YOUR ego and give it a rest. Given the importance of the information bestowed by Milos and Mac7000 for you to nitpick over the post in the fashion in which you have done is mind boggling and shows signs of impotence within yourself in regards to feeling MORE 'intelligent' than someone else because you spotted a (if I dare say) flaw....

Let me point out to you that in your post a coma is NOT used in a sentence when it is follwed by AND...case in point
"wrong, and perhaps"

the correct thing would have been to remove the COMA and the AND... inserted a COLON, which would have made the sentence structure better. Case in point...(corrected)

"Maybe I have misjudged people spelling it wrong; perhaps it is just an easy mistake to make..."

Just a heads up for you.

You point about the comma is one I fiercely debated with my fourth grade English teacher.

Anyway, what I meant by my post is just that perhaps it is wrong to assume a minor spelling error reflects more broadly on a person's abilities.  I wasn't disrespecting Mac7000.  Quite the opposite really.

PS: would you agree that in the USA presidents are SELECTED, and not ELECTED?
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: UpTheDosage on May 15, 2008, 11:44:21 AM
I don't agree that Kai has 'Dorian graininess'. He has the gh/insulin look, very cut but not extremely grainy like DY.


right on the money as usual. . . i can't think of any black guys that are "grainy" per se.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: watchagot on May 15, 2008, 04:36:45 PM
Maybe Kai should eat more fruits.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: jason armstrong on May 15, 2008, 04:57:02 PM
that was a 6 weeks out picture you imbecile



imbecile=guys like you that start juicing in your teens. :-*

but it's just a little bit of prop and stuff right? ::)

hope that helps ;D
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Atlantic on May 16, 2008, 02:21:44 AM
Consequences of diuretic

Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: marcos chacon on May 16, 2008, 03:09:55 AM
i am no expert but if  i take diuretics,never, cut salt or water!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Stavios on May 16, 2008, 08:14:48 AM
imbecile=guys like you that start juicing in your teens. :-*

but it's just a little bit of prop and stuff right? ::)

hope that helps ;D


whatever man

to each his own, I don't care what you do with your life and I don't see why you care what I do with mine ?

have a nice day  :)
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: kyomu on May 16, 2008, 08:19:27 AM
whatever man

to each his own, I don't care what you do with your life and I don't see why you care what I do with mine ?

have a nice day  :)
Great pic. Have pic of big size?
Always small and hard to see.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Stavios on May 16, 2008, 08:21:45 AM
Great pic. Have pic of big size?
Always small and hard to see.

I don't want to make this thread about me but here it is from a show a year ago
nothing to write home about

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=162671.0;attach=186961;image)
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: kyomu on May 16, 2008, 08:32:34 AM
I don't want to make this thread about me but here it is from a show a year ago
nothing to write home about

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=162671.0;attach=186961;image)
Thanx.
You have really big flame.Its very tough to fill.But Nice delts and pec you have. These two are very important!
BTW What colour product did you use?
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Milos_Sarcev on May 17, 2008, 10:00:29 AM

Just because its common practice doesn't mean its safe to use.  Insulin should never be used for bodybuilding...period.  It is the most dumbest thing ever to do next to Synthol...and you have a lot of experience at doing stupid things to compete.


And if you're wondering why I've been pissed at you, its because you quoting people different prices for distribution of your products at the Mr. O including myself.  Then you have the nerve to put up a 50% off on all products only a few weeks later which pretty much undercut every dealer who did take you up on your offer

Seriously, Milos don't you not think that us store owners don't check with each other on pricing quotes for products.  You should have called Europa Sports to distribute your products.  Good luck in passing off your wares


????

And if you're wondering why I've been pissed at you

No, I have no idea that you are pissed at me...and I don't "read between the lines"...
I am used to people attacking me - but AS I KNOW WHO I AM, WHAT I WANT AND HOW I TREAT PEOPLE - I don't get heated or upset too easily...
So, at this time I have NO IDEA that you are pissed at me...and I will be glad to ANSWER EVERY QUESTION you want to ask me - to possibly make you LESS PISSED AT ME...as I would REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHAT made you pissed off in the first place...

I have 10: 30 am SHARP - training with Johnnie Jackson in my gym so I have to leave without answering anything else...

However, friend or enemy, fan or hater...doesn't matter - I will answer EVERY QUESTION you ask me...as I know I NEVER did anything unethical...especially when my KNS line of products are concerned...


you have a lot of experience at doing stupid things to compete.



You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about this one...However if you don't remember - I publicly admitted - even made EXAMPLE out of myself in FLEX article - urging everyone who is taking SYNTHOL to stop....
I openly talked about my "stupidest mistake EVER" (taking synthol) several times even here on this board...

Next "stupid thing" I used to compete: PLASMA EXPANDERS - I also described DETAILS and AGAIN urged everyone NOT TO USE IT...

However - INSULIN (THE strongest anabolic hormone....STORAGE HORMONE capable of making miracles IF used properly...and as such /properly used/ it is ABSOLUTELY SAFE, BEYOND EFFECTIVE and quite HEALTHY to professional athletes using OTHER HORMONES with it...To that I will just "touch" subject of GH user is risking DIABETES more IF iNSULIN is not taken during the GH cycle for number of years...As a counter-regulatory hormone to GH there are BENEFITS of using INS during the GH cycle...as it is the case with low dosage of THYROID...as by now most of you should have the info that GH usage suppress thyroid so certain LOW dosage could/should be taken in consideration while on GH...as well as the fact that GH does cause HYPERGLYCEMIA in VERY SPECIFIC WAY thus - possible implementation of counter action could be wise choice...but..I must go...

Vince - hit me with your best shot...
I really want to know WHAT I DID to piss you off...
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: ukjeff on August 12, 2013, 02:08:47 PM
epic bump.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: OTHstrong on August 12, 2013, 02:08:54 PM

????

And if you're wondering why I've been pissed at you

No, I have no idea that you are pissed at me...and I don't "read between the lines"...
I am used to people attacking me - but AS I KNOW WHO I AM, WHAT I WANT AND HOW I TREAT PEOPLE - I don't get heated or upset too easily...
So, at this time I have NO IDEA that you are pissed at me...and I will be glad to ANSWER EVERY QUESTION you want to ask me - to possibly make you LESS PISSED AT ME...as I would REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHAT made you pissed off in the first place...

I have 10: 30 am SHARP - training with Johnnie Jackson in my gym so I have to leave without answering anything else...

However, friend or enemy, fan or hater...doesn't matter - I will answer EVERY QUESTION you ask me...as I know I NEVER did anything unethical...especially when my KNS line of products are concerned...


you have a lot of experience at doing stupid things to compete.



You are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT about this one...However if you don't remember - I publicly admitted - even made EXAMPLE out of myself in FLEX article - urging everyone who is taking SYNTHOL to stop....
I openly talked about my "stupidest mistake EVER" (taking synthol) several times even here on this board...

Next "stupid thing" I used to compete: PLASMA EXPANDERS - I also described DETAILS and AGAIN urged everyone NOT TO USE IT...

However - INSULIN (THE strongest anabolic hormone....STORAGE HORMONE capable of making miracles IF used properly...and as such /properly used/ it is ABSOLUTELY SAFE, BEYOND EFFECTIVE and quite HEALTHY to professional athletes using OTHER HORMONES with it...To that I will just "touch" subject of GH user is risking DIABETES more IF iNSULIN is not taken during the GH cycle for number of years...As a counter-regulatory hormone to GH there are BENEFITS of using INS during the GH cycle...as it is the case with low dosage of THYROID...as by now most of you should have the info that GH usage suppress thyroid so certain LOW dosage could/should be taken in consideration while on GH...as well as the fact that GH does cause HYPERGLYCEMIA in VERY SPECIFIC WAY thus - possible implementation of counter action could be wise choice...but..I must go...

Vince - hit me with your best shot...
I really want to know WHAT I DID to piss you off...
Milos totally owned Vince here, lmao.  :D
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Wiggs on August 12, 2013, 02:22:51 PM
Vince has been delusional for a long time.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Parker on August 12, 2013, 02:33:07 PM
Vince has been delusional for a long time.
It's a coping mechanism...who knows, he maybe on meds as well for being schizophrenic.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Vince G, CSN MFT on August 12, 2013, 02:43:56 PM
Milos totally owned Vince here, lmao.  :D

No...he owned himself out of the country with his shady dealings.


BTW...miss me???
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: arce1988 on August 12, 2013, 02:45:43 PM
 :D ;D
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Vince G, CSN MFT on August 12, 2013, 02:46:14 PM
Vince has been delusional for a long time.

Coming from a watermelon eating, Uncle Tom Sambo yard monkey like yourself....I really just don't pay you any attention
Title: Re: KAI HAD HEALTH PROBLEM AFTER THE SHOWS ?
Post by: Teutonic Knight on August 12, 2013, 02:49:04 PM
NO WAY, health problems in bodybuilding.....I don't believe it :(

Yeah, so many under 40yo skeletons confirm this  ;)
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: dustin on August 12, 2013, 03:01:23 PM
No...he owned himself out of the country with his shady dealings.


BTW...miss me???

Whatever helps you sleep at night, Vince.

Insulin has the potential to be dangerous just like anything else. But as long as you don't use it haphazardly, then it shouldn't be a concern. In town the nurses at the public health clinic were showing children how to pin insulin and do blood glucose readings. A dimwit can run this stuff as long as they can read numbers.

Considering how you don't use insulin, you should probably just shut the fuck up and kill yourself.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Vince G, CSN MFT on August 12, 2013, 03:22:24 PM
Whatever helps you sleep at night, Vince.

Insulin has the potential to be dangerous just like anything else. But as long as you don't use it haphazardly, then it shouldn't be a concern. In town the nurses at the public health clinic were showing children how to pin insulin and do blood glucose readings. A dimwit can run this stuff as long as they can read numbers.

Considering how you don't use insulin, you should probably just shut the fuck up and kill yourself.


Insulin is for diabetics.....not for bodybuilding.  In addition, even if you read "the numbers" you can still die.  Now if you want to take it just to win some cheap plastic trophy then go right ahead and get lucky.....as far as killing myself is concerned, you first motherf ucker
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: dustin on August 12, 2013, 04:16:32 PM

Insulin is for diabetics.....not for bodybuilding.  In addition, even if you read "the numbers" you can still die.  Now if you want to take it just to win some cheap plastic trophy then go right ahead and get lucky.....as far as killing myself is concerned, you first motherf ucker


Drugs are drugs. Diabetics can use insulin for live saving purposes and bodybuilders can use it for cosmetic purposes. Who are you to call the shots, cum guzzler?

Considering your strong position against insulin, why don't you fuck off if you don't care to use it nor do you care for the ones who do use it? You're of no help here, Vince. Go fuck yourself and die. No one likes you at all. Everyone wants you gone.
Title: Re: Kai Greene: Health Problems after the shows?
Post by: Emmortal on August 12, 2013, 05:34:54 PM

Insulin is for diabetics.....not for bodybuilding.  In addition, even if you read "the numbers" you can still die.  Now if you want to take it just to win some cheap plastic trophy then go right ahead and get lucky.....as far as killing myself is concerned, you first motherf ucker


Why don't you use the profits from your various business ventures to up the prize money for contests?  Oh yea that's right, you don't make any money so you just bitch about bodybuilding related issues on a bodybuilding website instead.