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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Deicide on May 23, 2008, 06:52:31 PM
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The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.
"God's Utility Function," Scientific American, November, 1995, p. 85
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Why do you think Dawkins talks about God so much Deicide?
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Why do you think Dawkins talks about God so much Deicide?
probably for the same reason deicide spends so much time on the topic...
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Why do you think Dawkins talks about God so much Deicide?
To paraphrase him; he cares about what is true, passionately so. That is the hallmark of a scientist. He cares about evidence; that is also the hallmark of a scientist. He also thinks it is an interesting question; whether there is a supernatural intelligence governing the universe? All the evidence that is available points to a big 'NO'.
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To paraphrase him; he cares about what is true, passionately so. That is the hallmark of a scientist. He cares about evidence; that is also the hallmark of a scientist. He also thinks it is an interesting question; whether there is a supernatural intelligence governing the universe? All the evidence that is available points to a big 'NO'.
I can see that however there are undoubtedly a great number of other "truths" (lol sorry but you knew it was coming) in the world that are debatable that would be easier to prove and more beneficial so why spend so much time on this one?
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I can see that however there are undoubtedly a great number of other "truths" (lol sorry but you knew it was coming) in the world that are debatable that would be easier to prove and more beneficial so why spend so much time on this one?
Scientists care about truth. Dawkins regards the question of god as a scientific question. There's that.
Then there is the rather obvious zealotry, violence and fanaticism that is produced by religion.
Conjoined, gods and religion are worthy are being addressed.
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Why do you think Dawkins talks about God so much Deicide?
Because Dawkins' goal is to commit "Deicide". Because Dawkins' agenda is to "kill religion". An evolutionary biologist obsessed with killing religion, or obsessed with killing God for that matter. ::)
Imagine how much more a smart scientist like him would have accomplished toward the advancement of science had he put all of this energy, zeal, time, work and money into his work in the lab instead.
"If your aim is to kill religion, as mine is"... - Richard Dawkins
Hear the rest:
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Because Dawkins' goal is to commit "Deicide". Because Dawkins' agenda is to "kill religion". An evolutionary biologist obsessed with killing religion, or obsessed with killing God for that matter. ::)
Imagine how much more a smart scientist like him would have accomplished toward the advancement of science had he put all of this energy, zeal, time, work and money into his work in the lab instead.
"If your aim is to kill religion, as mine is"... - Richard Dawkins
Hear the rest:
You obviously have read nothing of his; The Ancestor's Tale, Climbing Mount Improbable, Unweaving the Rainbow; none of these books has anything to do with god or religion.
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You obviously have read nothing of his; The Ancestor's Tale, Climbing Mount Improbable, Unweaving the Rainbow; none of these books has anything to do with god or religion.
You obviously misundertood what I wrote above. I know that he has many books dedicated to science alone. I know that he has put a lot of energy, time and work toward science. Still, imagine how much more than that he would have accomplished toward the advancement of science had he taken all of the energy, zeal, time, work and money that he has put into "killing" religion and put it into his work in the lab instead.
Then again, fighting religion in a post 9/11 world has made him a very wealthy and famous man. So good for him. So much for science.
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You obviously misundertood what I wrote above. I know that he has many books dedicated to science alone. I know that he has put a lot of energy, time and work toward science. Still, Imagine how much more than that he would have accomplished toward the advancement of science had he taken all of the energy, zeal, time, work and money that he has put into "killing" religion and put it into his work in the lab instead.
Then again, fighting religion in a post 9/11 world has made him a very wealthy and famous man. So good for him. So much for science.
Well, religion is manifestly false and most of its claims are incompatible with modern scientific findings; why not oppose it on those grounds alone?
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To paraphrase him; he cares about what is true, passionately so. That is the hallmark of a scientist. He cares about evidence; that is also the hallmark of a scientist. He also thinks it is an interesting question; whether there is a supernatural intelligence governing the universe? All the evidence that is available points to a big 'NO'.
How do you think he would feel if he caused someone to question or turn from their faith even if their faith made that person happy and feel at peace?
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How do you think he would feel if he caused someone to question or turn from their faith even if their faith made that person happy and feel at peace?
To say the right thing is never wrong.
Dawkins happens to believe his position is right, and I agree with him. He is not responsible for the paths chosen in ones life, as a scientist he's responsible for finding the truth.
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Scientists care about truth. Dawkins regards the question of god as a scientific question. There's that.
Then there is the rather obvious zealotry, violence and fanaticism that is produced by religion.
Conjoined, gods and religion are worthy are being addressed.
You always state the negative effects of religion but never the benefits, why is that?
Do you not see the good that religion does in the world? Do you believe that the bad outweighs the good?
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You always state the negative effects of religion but never the benefits, why is that?
Do you not see the good that religion does in the world? Do you believe that the bad outweighs the good?
That's his position. When do you ever bleat on about evolutionary biology and its benefits to scientific understanding? You don't probably because you don't believe it.
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That's his position. When do you ever bleat on about evolutionary biology and its benefits to scientific understanding? You don't probably because you don't believe it.
while I understand why you would think that way, your wrong. I actually happen to believe in evolution and if you look over my post on this board everytime its brought up I do bleat on about it, but believing in evolution doesnt mean a disbelief in God.
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as a scientist he's responsible for finding the truth.
What do you think he says when his wife asks if she looks fat in this dress? ;D
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Because Dawkins' goal is to commit "Deicide". Because Dawkins' agenda is to "kill religion". An evolutionary biologist obsessed with killing religion, or obsessed with killing God for that matter. ::)
Imagine how much more a smart scientist like him would have accomplished toward the advancement of science had he put all of this energy, zeal, time, work and money into his work in the lab instead.
"If your aim is to kill religion, as mine is"... - Richard Dawkins
Hear the rest:
And, he'll miss that aim, just like every other atheist who has tried it.
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How do you think he would feel if he caused someone to question or turn from their faith even if their faith made that person happy and feel at peace?
Who knows? Most people believe or have faith for exactly those reasons but those are not evidentiary or scientific reasons for believing something; once again as has been said a thousand times, the fact that something is useful or makes people feel good, has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not it is true; you truly don't get that, do you?
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You always state the negative effects of religion but never the benefits, why is that?
Do you not see the good that religion does in the world? Do you believe that the bad outweighs the good?
bump
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bump
To answer your question: I personally don't care about the utility of religion, whether it does more good than harm or vice versa; I care about whether its propositions and claims are true. I only care if they are true or not. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest they are, hence my reason for opposition to them.
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To answer your question: I personally don't care about the utility of religion, whether it does more good than harm or vice versa; I care about whether its propositions and claims are true. I only care if they are true or not. There is not a shred of evidence to suggest they are, hence my reason for opposition to them.
ok then again why focus so much on religion? Again there are undoubtebly a number of other subjects that would be easier to prove and more beneficial too.
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ok then again why focus so much on religion? Again there are undoubtebly a number of other subjects that would be easier to prove and more beneficial too.
Because religion is tax exempt, imposes itself on others, interferes with politics and attempts to dictate to people what they can and cannot do, never mind the fanaticism and sheer stupidity of it.
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Because religion is tax exempt, imposes itself on others, interferes with politics and attempts to dictate to people what they can and cannot do, never mind the fanaticism and sheer stupidity of it.
b/c political parties dont do the same thing? who cares about the fanaticism, you said you dont care about whether religion does more good than harm or vice versa. What about the sheer stupidity and hipocracy of allowing a women to decide to have an abortion or not and not giving the man the male equivilant option? Just an example of how there are better things out there for you to argue about.
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b/c political parties dont do the same thing? who cares about the fanaticism, you said you dont care about whether religion does more good than harm or vice versa. What about the sheer stupidity and hipocracy of allowing a women to decide to have an abortion or not and not giving the man the male equivilant option? Just an example of how there are better things out there for you to argue about.
How can you give a male the equivalent option? A man cannot give birth. ::)
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How can you give a male the equivalent option? A man cannot give birth. ::)
No but a male can wash their hands of a pregnancy and walk away, which is the male equivilant to an abortion. A woman can have an abortion or not and this is not contingent on the fathers approval, however if a man wants an abortion and the women wont get one he is relegated to paying child support. a male abortion would be washing his hands of it, or perhaps a reduced child support payment something along those lines.
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No but a male can wash their hands of a pregnancy and walk away, which is the male equivilant to an abortion. A woman can have an abortion or not and this is not contingent on the fathers approval, however if a man wants an abortion and the women wont get one he is relegated to paying child support. a male abortion would be washing his hands of it, or perhaps a reduced child support payment something along those lines.
Difficult issue; why do you care so much about it?
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Difficult issue; why do you care so much about it?
mainly b/c its unfair, I dont agree with abortion anyways but who am I to tell you what to do with your body.
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And, he'll miss that aim, just like every other atheist who has tried it.
Yes, like Anthony Flew. If you can't beat us, join us. ;D
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but the main point is that if it is true that you spend so much time on religion b/c of its lack of "truth" and the other reasons you gave, fanaticism, imposing itself on others, dictating what ppl do. There are a number of other more beneficial arguements out there to be argued.
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but the main point is that if it is true that you spend so much time on religion b/c of its lack of "truth" and the other reasons you gave, fanaticism, imposing itself on others, dictating what ppl do. There are a number of other more beneficial arguements out there to be argued.
Such as? None to which so much importance is attached bu human beings; many people would utterly crumble without their faith, this just showing how important of an issue it is.
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Such as? None to which so much importance is attached bu human beings; many people would utterly crumble without their faith, this just showing how important of an issue it is.
ill agree with you on that but that is somewhat misdirecting my point. What benefits do you get from showing ppl the "truth"? what benefits does the world/society gain from turning away from religion? The results and benefits of the other topics of which i talk about are much more tangible than those that might be gained from doing away with religion. so why not spend your time and energy on those?
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ill agree with you on that but that is somewhat misdirecting my point. What benefits do you get from showing ppl the "truth"? what benefits does the world/society gain from turning away from religion? The results and benefits of the other topics of which i talk about are much more tangible than those that might be gained from doing away with religion. so why not spend your time and energy on those?
Generally speaking I do; however in some cases religion threatens the very fabric of progressive, secular society, attempting to impose desert mythology on modern civilisation. That needs to be opposed.
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Generally speaking I do; however in some cases religion threatens the very fabric of progressive, secular society, attempting to impose desert mythology on modern civilisation. That needs to be opposed.
I can agree with that as Ive come to believe that religion is a personal thing and you should share the word of God not force the word of God also your views no matter whether they be religious or otherwise should not be put on somebody else in all circumstances. However this doesnt mean that you should feel the need to abolish religion as a whole, and I understand that you may not feel that way and that your post on getbig may be a small portion of your belief system but it does seem that you do feel that it needs to be done away with all together.
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I can agree with that as Ive come to believe that religion is a personal thing and you should share the word of God not force the word of God also your views no matter whether they be religious or otherwise should not be put on somebody else in all circumstances. However this doesnt mean that you should feel the need to abolish religion as a whole, and I understand that you may not feel that way and that your post on getbig may be a small portion of your belief system but it does seem that you do feel that it needs to be done away with all together.
Ineradicable...but certainly worthy or eradication.
"I am not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief is positively harmful. Reviewing the false claims of religion, I do not wish, as some sentimental materialists affect to wish, that they were true. I do not envy believers their faith. I am relieved to think that the whole story is a sinister fairy tale; life would be miserable if what the faithful affirmed was actually the case."
-Hitchens
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ok but as you stated you dont care about whether its beneficial or harmful.
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ok but as you stated you dont care about whether its beneficial or harmful.
It's not my first priority but falsehood is also a form of wickedness.
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mainly b/c its unfair, I dont agree with abortion anyways but who am I to tell you what to do with your body.
The problem is that it ain't the woman who's getting her arms and legs ripped off, her skull crushed, and her brains vaccumed out....nor it is her body being burned with a chemical solution.
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The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored. In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.
"God's Utility Function," Scientific American, November, 1995, p. 85
I think it's far more probable that the Bible isn't the 100% word of God then God not existing at all.
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The problem is that it ain't the woman who's getting her arms and legs ripped off, her skull crushed, and her brains vaccumed out....nor it is her body being burned with a chemical solution.
This is why, if it ever comes to a vote, I may vote against abortion.
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I think it's far more probable that the Bible isn't the 100% word of God then God not existing at all.
What sort of 'god' is it that you believe in? I know it's not good 'ol Yahweh the angry old man...
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This is why, if it ever comes to a vote, I may vote against abortion.
Late term abortion is horrible and should be outlawed. If you haven't made a stand by the fifth month, chances are you should be having your child.
I hope, if abortion is abolished, that you'll be part of the solution though, Ozmo. People have been having sex and abortions since the beginning of time. The only way it will work is if society as a whole changes. Encourage people to marry between the 17-23 age bracket, reinforce cleaving to one partner from beginning to end, enforce strict reponsibility laws for men... with prison sentences perhaps, for those who don't support their children, that sort of thing.
I think if abortion is outlawed, most of the northern state women will flock to heathen Canada :) to have theirs. The poor and the rest will potentially have to consider illegal abortion if they're desperate enough. As the food shortage issue/climate change becomes worse, who knows, maybe China-like caps on per-couple births will also be enforced with forced sterilization after two. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future.
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Late term abortion is horrible and should be outlawed. If you haven't made a stand by the fifth month, chances are you should be having your child.
I hope, if abortion is abolished, that you'll be part of the solution though, Ozmo. People have been having sex and abortions since the beginning of time. The only way it will work is if society as a whole changes. Encourage people to marry between the 17-23 age bracket, reinforce cleaving to one partner from beginning to end, enforce strict reponsibility laws for men... with prison sentences perhaps, for those who don't support their children, that sort of thing.
I think if abortion is outlawed, most of the northern state women will flock to heathen Canada :) to have theirs. The poor and the rest will potentially have to consider illegal abortion if they're desperate enough. As the food shortage issue/climate change becomes worse, who knows, maybe China-like caps on per-couple births will also be enforced with forced sterilization after two. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the future.
I believe the solution is people choosing to do the right thing. However as a society and a species we are far from doing what's best regardless of the burdens or consequences those decisions bring us. I will always support choosing not to abort.
I really don't think it will ever be brought to a vote.
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What sort of 'god' is it that you believe in? I know it's not good 'ol Yahweh the angry old man...
It's Foo Foo the love God.
You might come to the conclusion that if life/soul is everlasting then our time on earth is but a blink when compared to eternity which in many ways trivializes what happens to us here.
Or you could say, screw it, we are just animals that die.
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It's Foo Foo the love God.
You might come to the conclusion that if life/soul is everlasting then our time on earth is but a blink when compared to eternity which in many ways trivializes what happens to us here.
Or you could say, screw it, we are just animals that die.
Exactly.
BTW, you can call anything god; love, hate, lust...that's why ancient deities personified these things...pretty arbitrary at the end of the day.
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Exactly.
BTW, you can call anything god; love, hate, lust...that's why ancient deities personified these things...pretty arbitrary at the end of the day.
I see your point. But don't share it. I think science will discover God at some point. But we are a ways away. ;D
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I see your point. But don't share it. I think science will discover God at some point. But we are a ways away. ;D
Humanity wll be long gone by then; still at least you aren't a bible thumper.
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Humanity wll be long gone by then; still at least you aren't a bible thumper.
ehhh, maybe. Think about it. If we survive and continue to evolve and progress technologically we will merge with machines. 10k to 20k years from now we will likely all be one race.
I can only thank God for not being a Bible thumper. ;D seriously.
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ehhh, maybe. Think about it. If we survive and continue to evolve and progress technologically we will merge with machines. 10k to 20k years from now we will likely all be one race.
I can only thank God for not being a Bible thumper. ;D seriously.
Could well be true...even in a thousand years...
I thank Woden too...
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Late term abortion is horrible and should be outlawed. If you haven't made a stand by the fifth month, chances are you should be having your child.
Why? What's the difference between aborting a baby at three or four months versus five months?
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Why? What's the difference between aborting a baby at three or four months versus five months?
exactly, I agree, when do you believe that life begins? Not specifically you beach just a general question...the problem with your example beach is whats the difference between 3 months and 10 years, it leaves the door open for infantcide b/c you cant justify a difference.
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Why? What's the difference between aborting a baby at three or four months versus five months?
It's my personal opinion Beach, and I'm no expert. I do think that, unless you're Polish and have to raise money to travel to Germany, if you were seriously desperate you'd take care of your problem within two months. Waiting five months implies that you have serious qualms, to me. Also, I think there is difference between a potential life that is the size of pinprick, and one that is starting to form into a human.
15% of potential life is spontaneously ejected, without the woman even knowing about it, and flushed down the toilet. :-\ Sounds crass, but it's true. What's the difference?
Preciousness of life is also relative. Babies are killed in Iraq. Their lives are precious, true, but not THAT precious. And, if you had to sacrifice one of your children so that 1.3 million potential lives currently the size of a pinprick could live, would you do it? No, probably not. You would probably sacrifice your own life for that of any one of your children because their lives are more precious to you than your own. And so on. And I believe that if there were suddenly mass food shortages, most anti-choice people would suddenly suspend their belief in "all life" is precious and gladly sacrifice the 1.3 million unborn each year, so that their own toddlers could eat.
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It's my personal opinion Beach, and I'm no expert. I do think that, unless you're Polish and have to raise money to travel to Germany, if you were seriously desperate you'd take care of your problem within two months. Waiting five months implies that you have serious qualms, to me. Also, I think there is difference between a potential life that is the size of pinprick, and one that is starting to form into a human.
I can agree with that, a person who has lived with the pregnancy for 5 months and not taken action to end it has implied they have accepted responsibility for their pregnancy.
Are you against abortion in all cases: rape, incest, etc...
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Puddles, Rivers, and Waterfalls
Jill Carattini
from rzim.org (http://rzim.org)
In his book River Out of Eden, Oxford scientist Richard Dawkins explains, "The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference."(1) In a similar vein, Dawkins praises the humorous rejoinder of Douglas Adams to arguments that claim an apparent order and purpose in the universe. Writes Dawkins, "To illustrate the vain conceit that the universe must be somehow preordained for us because we are so well suited to live in it, [Adams] mimed a wonderfully funny imitation of a puddle of water, fitting itself snugly into a depression in the ground, the depression uncannily being exactly the same shape as the puddle."(2) Their claim is clear: Humanity has adapted to a blind and indifferent universe like water to the shape of its container. It is perhaps a claim that at times lingers suggestively in the desolate places of life and mind.
Ernest Gordon, too, may have at one time agreed. An officer of the British army during the Second World War, he was captured by the Japanese while at sea. At the age of 24, he was sent to work in the prison camp that would be constructing the Burma-Siam railroad.
For every mile of track, 393 men are said to have died. Wearing nothing but loincloths, they worked for hours in scorching temperatures, chopping their way through tangled jungles. Those who paused out of exhaustion were beaten to death by guards. Treated like animals, the prisoners became themselves like beasts trying to survive. Adapting to their harsh captivity, theft was as rampant as disease among them. Gordon himself eventually became so weak from illness that he was removed from the common camp and placed in the Death House. He describes his purposeless existence in that cruel and indifferent setting: "I was a prisoner of war, lying among the dead, waiting for the bodies to be carried away so that I might have more room."(3)
Each night the Japanese guards would count the work tools before anyone was permitted to return to camp. One evening, when a shovel was found to be missing, a guard shouted relentlessly that the guilty man must present himself. When no one responded, he ordered callously, "All die! All die!" At this, a young man stepped forward, confessing to the theft, and was immediately killed before them.
The railroad prison camp by the River Kwai was a place where many could have observed in horror that “the universe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no God watching over those in dire need of hope." Like water conforming to the shape of its container, the captured men became like men fighting to survive, void of right and wrong, void of reverence for life, void of all meaning. Yet, amidst the stagnant waters of hatred and bitterness, something was astir.
After the incident with the shovel, upon returning to the camp, one of the guards discovered a mistake in their counting. There had never been a missing shovel. The young man that stepped forward was innocent; he had sacrificed his life to preserve the lives of his fellow inmates. After this incident, attitudes among the camp began to change dramatically. Instead of men in a detached game of survival of the fittest, they began to look out for each other. One of the men remembered the words of Scripture: "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." Gordon, who once lay forgotten for dead, was slowly nursed back to health by fellow prisoners. Fully recovered, he eventually became a makeshift chaplain of the camp. When the prison was liberated in 1945--three years after his capture--Gordon entered seminary to become a minister of the message of Jesus Christ. "Faith thrives where there is no hope but God," he later testified. How contrary to the words of Richard Dawkins.
The transformation in the men of the prison was so thoroughly unlike the world they were forced to live in that one could argue it was more like a waterfall defying gravity and moving upstream than a puddle naturally fitting into the crevice that holds it. The sacrifice of one innocent man can reverse the flow of history. Perhaps the kingdom of God is indeed among us, a spring of living water in a dry and weary land.
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Puddles, Rivers, and Waterfalls
Jill Carattini
from rzim.org (http://rzim.org)
Great story, Colossus_500!
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Great story, Colossus_500!
Thanks, loco! :)
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I can agree with that, a person who has lived with the pregnancy for 5 months and not taken action to end it has implied they have accepted responsibility for their pregnancy.
Are you against abortion in all cases: rape, incest, etc...
I guess everyone has their own personal moral threshold. I'm not against early term abortion though. It's very sad and traumatic for anyone to have to deal with that, but it exists for several reasons.
If you're against abortion, logically speaking I guess you would have to be against it for any reason, including rape or incest.
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Thanks, loco! :)
It is a nice story about hope. :)
Not sure though, what anything in that story has to do with Dawkins. You're confusing his descriptions of the natural world, with human characteristics. Or at least, the author is. It sounds like these men were Christians who lost their faith due to their awful circumstances until someone performed a heroic act and they found it again.
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It's my personal opinion Beach, and I'm no expert. I do think that, unless you're Polish and have to raise money to travel to Germany, if you were seriously desperate you'd take care of your problem within two months. Waiting five months implies that you have serious qualms, to me. Also, I think there is difference between a potential life that is the size of pinprick, and one that is starting to form into a human.
15% of potential life is spontaneously ejected, without the woman even knowing about it, and flushed down the toilet. :-\ Sounds crass, but it's true. What's the difference?
Preciousness of life is also relative. Babies are killed in Iraq. Their lives are precious, true, but not THAT precious. And, if you had to sacrifice one of your children so that 1.3 million potential lives currently the size of a pinprick could live, would you do it? No, probably not. You would probably sacrifice your own life for that of any one of your children because their lives are more precious to you than your own. And so on. And I believe that if there were suddenly mass food shortages, most anti-choice people would suddenly suspend their belief in "all life" is precious and gladly sacrifice the 1.3 million unborn each year, so that their own toddlers could eat.
Thanks for answering Deedee. Very thoughtful response. This is a very difficult issue. Personally, I don't see a difference between an unborn baby and a newborn baby. No easy answers to any of this.
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It is a nice story about hope. :)
Not sure though, what anything in that story has to do with Dawkins. You're confusing his descriptions of the natural world, with human characteristics. Or at least, the author is. It sounds like these men were Christians who lost their faith due to their awful circumstances until someone performed a heroic act and they found it again.
From what I have gleaned of this Colossus fellow it seems that he has been blessed with amazing bodybuilding genetics and a comparative lack of cranial matter to boot.
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Thanks for answering Deedee. Very thoughtful response. This is a very difficult issue. Personally, I don't see a difference between an unborn baby and a newborn baby. No easy answers to any of this.
The fact that you see no difference speaks volumes of your level of understanding of biology; one is a clump of cells with no nervous system, the other is a living, breathing primate. No difference? ::)
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The fact that you see no difference speaks volumes of your level of understanding of biology; one is a clump of cells with no nervous system, the other is a living, breathing primate. No difference? ::)
So a baby at 36 weeks is a clump of cells with no nervous system? ::) The fact you see a difference tells me you probably don't have any kids, never helped your woman through a pregnancy, never looked at an ultrasound of a baby, never played with, talked to, read to, etc. an unborn child, never participated in a delivery, never cut an umbilical cord, never held a newborn baby, etc. Same difference? ::)
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So a baby at 36 weeks is a clump of cells with no nervous system? ::) The fact you see a difference tells me you probably don't have any kids, never helped your woman through a pregnancy, never looked at an ultrasound of a baby, never played with, talked to, read to, etc. an unborn child, never participated in a delivery, never cut an umbilical cord, never held a newborn baby, etc. Same difference? ::)
Not 36 weeks; I was speaking of the first 2 weeks.
I work with kids every day. If more creationists would do that, they would see that we are indeed just apes.
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Not 36 weeks; I was speaking of the first 2 weeks.
I work with kids every day. If more creationists would do that, they would see that we are indeed just apes.
I've lived and worked with kids for years. They're not apes. Smart, brutally honest yet born liars, impartial (i.e., not racist), selfish yet giving, and typically a joy to be around.
Babies aren't aborted at 2 weeks. Women don't typically discover they are pregnant until they are about 6 weeks or later. By this stage (at least 7 weeks), the following have already developed:
will have formed the heart
begins development of the brain and spinal cord
starts forming the gastrointestinal tract
the eyes move forward on the face and eyelids begin to form
the palate is nearing completion and the tongue begins to form
gastrointestinal tract separates from the genitourinary tract
all essential organs have begun to form
By 8.5 weeks, the following:
the embryo now resembles a human
facial features continue to develop
beginnings of external genitalia form
anal passage opens, but the rectal membrane is intact
circulation through the umbilical cord is well developed
long bones begin to form
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002398.htm
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Beach Bum, are you saying Homo sapiens are NOT apes?
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Beach Bum, are you saying Homo sapiens are NOT apes?
I said kids are not apes. Are you saying kids are apes?
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I said kids are not apes. Are you saying kids are apes?
Not in the metaphorical sense no.
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I saw a tramp reading a Richard Dawkins book only this morning.
True story.
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I said kids are not apes. Are you saying kids are apes?
We are apes and by default the children of our species are as well.