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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Boost on May 26, 2008, 02:02:27 PM
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I have started doing BNP using a barbell. I like the feeling of the movement, however the only negative is that my wrists are sore occasionaly after doing them. Should i drop this movement? is it dangerous for the shoulders. I like the movement better than a regular front press.
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I would suggest not doing BNP because it usually leads to shldr probs.. I recommend front bar presses and DB presses
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some obviously can do them without problems but i myself i dont do them i dont see a real good reason for it
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BNP and behind the neck pulldowns/chins can potentially cause shoulder probs or none at all, plus the effect on the muscles is a little different and sometimes more intense. As i've said before, if you do partial ROMs avoiding the bottom, and do them under control where it doesn't hurt and there's no bouncing, they can be worthwhile.
Using a Smith machine, DBs or a machine can also help avoid problems for some, and can be more effective.
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Never bothered me,been doing them for years.
I agree with Pumpster,lower bar to ear lobe level,and press just short of lockout if you have shoulder problems or to avoid them in the future if you are prone to them.
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Never bothered me,been doing them for years.
I agree with Pumpster,lower bar to ear lobe level,and press just short of lockout if you have shoulder problems or to avoid them in the future if you are prone to them.
Bingo. Forget the generalizations.
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if i do behind the neck military presses i always do them on the smith machine..
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if i do behind the neck military presses i always do them on the smith machine..
ya sometimes the smith's actually better for some exercises like pbn and close-grip benches, IMO.
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ya sometimes the smith's actually better for some exercises like pbn and close-grip benches, IMO.
whats pbn?
yeah close grip bench on yhe mith its easier to fully fatigue the muscle and hit that true failure..
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whats pbn?
Presses Behind Neck...........
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had to have my neck surgically repaired from a ruptured disc... I say don't do them
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only pro ive ever seen do them is levrone. most others do them to the front
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I have started doing BNP using a barbell. I like the feeling of the movement, however the only negative is that my wrists are sore occasionaly after doing them. Should i drop this movement? is it dangerous for the shoulders. I like the movement better than a regular front press.
The few times I’ve done them were at the end of my shoulder routine when everything is loose and thoroughly warmed up. Also, by the end you don’t need as much weight on that bar as you would at the beginning.
I touch the bar to my neck at the bottom portion, but do NOT push to full extension.
As for sore wrists, try making minor changes to your grip to find something more comfortable – or just wrap your wrists.
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only pro ive ever seen do them is levrone. most others do them to the front
nasser did them behind his head. you should know this.
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PBN's seem to get a bad rap because they are usually approached wrong. BB'ers need to warm up the area and take time to work on the required flexability of this exercise. Most BB'ers will tend to have a too tight shoulder girdle anyway. Take a light bar (or even a broom/mop handle) and just do warm-up/stretches of this exercise. 20 to 30 reps.Than, using a regular exercises bar, add weight slowly. Rushing the weight (using too much, to soon) can cause injury. But this can be said for most exercises anyway. Straight arm pullovers and just hanging from a overhear bar can also help to give better flexability to the shoulder region.
Holding the grip too wide can allow extra stress on the shoulder area. Try for a grip that forms about a 90 degree angle between the forearms and upper arm at the elbows. Even too close a grip may cause problems with some folks. Lower the bar to, and touch, the upper traps only. The more you do the PBN, from workout to workout, the more flexabily is gained until this exercise can feel quite natural for you. Some will lower the bar to the mid-trap range without any trouble at all. The PBN can allow for very heavy weight to be used after a while. Though pure BB'ers will require a weight with-in the moderate range. And they really do not want to lockout each rep. PL'ers will use heavy PBN's to improve their benches. Actually PBN's can strengthen the whole shoulder girdle against injury if approached correctly.
The few Pro's I have seen train, and some of the top BB'ers, usually include the PBN. But they focus on just doing middle range reps at a very fast pace. So it's more like 1/4 to 1/3 reps, never coming close to a top lockout or lower than the middle of the back of the head. Keeping the TUT at it's most intense. Good Luck.
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The few times I’ve done them were at the end of my shoulder routine when everything is loose and thoroughly warmed up. Also, by the end you don’t need as much weight on that bar as you would at the beginning.
I touch the bar to my neck at the bottom portion, but do NOT push to full extension.
As for sore wrists, try making minor changes to your grip to find something more comfortable – or just wrap your wrists.
Damn good advice as was jpm`s as usual.
Years ago,most everybody did behind the necks as their main delt exercise.
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Damn good advice as was jpm`s as usual.
Years ago,most everybody did behind the necks as their main delt exercise.
Thank you.
I wonder if the reason that behind the neck (and other) type movements get such a bad rap these days is because so many people don’t train as smart as they used to.
I see an ever increasing plethora of new gym goers – most of whom really haven’t a f*cking clue as to what they’re doing.
I was fortunate in that my first gym was mostly made up of very old school guys who knew their stuff. Quite a few of them took me under their wing to various degrees, and I learned from some extremely knowledgeable people.
I realize that not every gym offers that luxury, but still, the information is out there.
Especially with the internet now, quality instruction and info. is amply available.
So what gives?
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Same here............trained at a local YMCA with experienced powerlifters and bodybuilders.
Most people in gyms these days are clueless,and that`s an understatement.
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Damn good advice as was jpm`s as usual.
Years ago,most everybody did behind the necks as their main delt exercise.
they probably also did them intelligently. it's easy as hell to muff up the form and pow, there goes your shoulders. but done right they're dynamite. i'm loving standing BNPs currently.
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whats the benefit of them? apparantely most pros dont think theyre necessary to include in their routines. surely it cant be because of lack of knowledge on how to do them properly.
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all heavy over head pressing is dangerous, bnp is even more so.... my advice to anyone is to do your pressing last in your workout, after laterals, rear delts etc etc
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do your pressing last in your workout, after laterals, rear delts etc etc
Ya, the warmup of the shoulders is better this way, and the weights used aren't as high.
Another thing to watch out for though, is the strain laterals put on the delts, that's no joke either. Can be as bad or worse than that from presses. Delts in general are a complex area that takes alot of pressure from direct exercises.
I'd say that for any delt exercises always make sure there's time taken for good warmups, keep the reps moderate or high not low, and keep the area warm by keeping rests between sets at 1 minute or less and/or by using supersets/trisets.
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all weightlifting exercises are dangerous.
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all weightlifting exercises are dangerous.
exactly. there's no such thing as "safe" heavy lifting, only hedging your bets one way or the other. the key is to find your goal, find what has to be done to get there, and assess the risks and then decided whether you wanna go for it.
watch mariusz train. he does behind the neck push presses with 405 for sets of 2. safe? HELL no. but he's not gonna get any better otherwise. you can make it safe-ER, but something can always go wrong and the heavier you go, and the trickier the exercise is, the odds are greater of injury. not to mention every max-out strains the system immensely and increases risk of arterial bursting and aneurysms.
if you want a "safe" activity, try pilates or buy a total gym and keep the incline low. in the weight room, do what doesn't hurt.
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i watch mariusz all the time. i let him guide me as we're very much alike when it comes to genetics, experience, strength, steroids etc
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i watch mariusz all the time. i let him guide me as we're very much alike when it comes to genetics, experience, strength, steroids etc
Are you admitting to using steroids?
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i watch mariusz all the time. i let him guide me as we're very much alike
rumor has it that mariusz hits from the other side of the plate these days
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Are you admitting to using steroids?
im using irony to illustrate the stupidity of naming the worlds strongest man in this discussion as it teaches us nothing unless we too are the worlds strongest man.
and no i never used steroids, i dont even use creatine because it's a drag mixing that shit. i had some jaegerbombs this weekend though.
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of course weightlifting isnt safe... but doing presses 1st when your fresh and strong is asking for trouble, there realy isnt any need... it takes u to propperly fuck your self before u see the light....... actualy where all trainings concerend, should all be nice slow, good form, big squeezes, thats real bodybuilding...not loading the bar up and squeeling whilest u do bouncy half reps
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of course weightlifting isnt safe... but doing presses 1st when your fresh and strong is asking for trouble, there realy isnt any need...
if you want to get better at pressing, then yes there is a need.
it takes u to propperly fuck your self before u see the light....... actualy where all trainings concerend, should all be nice slow, good form, big squeezes, thats real bodybuilding...not loading the bar up and squeeling whilest u do bouncy half reps
yeah you enjoy that. and enjoy being little and weak while you're at it. meanwhile i'll be over here, improving.
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well im 6ft at 245, with a visible 6 pack and some nice chunky veins,, so im hardly a little weakling as u suggest....... ive been there and done it, and i can honestly say u dont need to chase huge weights to get the most out of your training....
how long do you think you can throw big weights about before u get fucked, how big will you be when your injured for 6 months of every year?
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Ya sometimes neat n tidy ain't cuttin it if you want to push the envelope. You have to go further, but not f*** things up either, find somewhere in between that helps but doesn't cause problems.
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Blew my left rotator out 2 years ago doing them. Hasn't come back. Unlike other joints, the shoulders are a very poorly 'constructed' and BNPs places them in a very mechanically disadvantageous position. Be careful. Having said that, they can be a great exercise for some. I would advise not going too low on them - ie. stop at the ears, not at the shoulders/traps. Better yet, do a form of pressing to the front.
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While we're on this subject
How about alternating front and back in same set?. In doing 10 reps - 1 to the front and one to the back etc until you complete the set - moderate weights
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While we're on this subject
How about alternating front and back in same set?. In doing 10 reps - 1 to the front and one to the back etc until you complete the set - moderate weights
sure. as long as your weights are progressing, and your not using the same weights month after month.
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or you could use the same weights month after month, as most pros do.
and alter time under tension, no of reps, no of sets, resting periods etc etc etc
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or you could use the same weights month after month, as most pros do.
and alter time under tension, no of reps, no of sets, resting periods etc etc etc
wont work in the long run unless your using drugs and even then your limiting growth if your not adding weight to the bar.
but we already know its your excuse to be a pussy.
pros grow by uping the dosage.
hope this helps
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While we're on this subject
How about alternating front and back in same set?. In doing 10 reps - 1 to the front and one to the back etc until you complete the set - moderate weights
i've never met anyone who's as strong to the back as they are to the front, so if you really really want to go that route i'd say pick a goal of 10 reps, do as many to the back as you can, then finish the 10 to the front. keep going until you can hit all 10 behind, and then go up in weight and start again.
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Dreadlord is doing the Bradford press, even if he does not know it. Press from the front and lowered to the back and vice versa. Best to use a moderate weight as he does. That grip position can be a killer for some, so you might take care if attempting it. It would not be my first choice as an exercise to do for the delts. One of the better shoulder combo, that works for me anyway, is the PBN and Up-Right rows SS'ed. Or front press and Up-right rows SS'ed. And of course the front and PBN press SS'ed, but not in the Bradfore style.
I just about use the same weight in the front and behind the neck press from a power rack (though Mcgoo and I have never met). With the front version being a little more heavy. (we have a few guy pushing 275-300+ off the rack for the PBN...just the way it is) Trouble is most guy's seem to have a man crush on bench pressing and negelect any overhead pressing action. Too bad, their loss.
Might what to have overhead pressing the first thing in a shoulder workout, if wanting serious shoulder girdler mass. Leave the extensions movements for later (if you must do them at all), unless you are doing pre-exhaust workouts. My first selection would be overhead pressing anytime over doing flat benches. Inclines(depending on the angle) can be a different matter all together.
Some of the Russian and other eastern block Olympic lifters have been knows to jerk heavy overhead from behind the neck in training. As the good Dr Chimps suggest, the PBN is not for everyone. But for those who are constructed for it, it will strengthen the whole shoulder girdle when common sense is used. Good luck.
Side Bar: From what I have seen on a personal level (from working with BB'ers & lifters) I might suggest that bench pressing may have blown out more shoulder than overhead presses every have. DB benches seem to be more user friendly than a straight bar. Over use and abuse of BP's may lead to nagging and long time injuries. Just a observation and some experience gather my myself over a few years ...nothing written in stone.
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I use all three. I've never had any problems with BNP because I load it up with enough weight to reach 8-10 reps comfortably. I use the "bradford press" (thanks jpm) rarely and always with moderate weights and caution so I don't screw up my shoulders down the road. Warm up well so your shoulders are flexible and arent stiff.
Overall, I prefer the front overhead press because i can use heavy poundages on it. Every once in awhile I'll do front presses (2 sets) + BNP (2 sets) and wrap it up with a bradford press (1 set). Poundages will vary once i switch from one press to another.
I'm sure opinions will vary but I've gotten good results from mixing it up occasionally
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It has to do with your form.....
I see people lower the bar as low as they can, and lock out at the top as high as possible.....cause they think this is works the muscle better ???
You should only lower the bar so your arms are paralell with the floor and you can draw a straight line under your arms. That's why I do them on a smith machine in front of a mirror. so I can see How low I go in the mirror. Also I don't go all the way up and lock out at the top. I just go High enough to where it feels natural and safe.
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I learnt via the hard way about not locking out on top with heavy weights(BNP) during my early years of weight training.
On my second set it felt like i uprooted all the nerves in my lower back. At the time it didnt feel too bad so i foolishly did ANOTHER set. I really paid a heavy price for that the next morning and for the next few months. That was a good learning experience for me to leave my ego at the door.
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wont work in the long run unless your using drugs and even then your limiting growth if your not adding weight to the bar.
but we already know its your excuse to be a pussy.
pros grow by uping the dosage.
hope this helps
so you're saying ronnie coleman is limiting his growth because he doesnt add fractional plates to the legpress from one week to the other? ::)
(http://www.fractionalplates.com/images/040506bo05.jpg)
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so you're saying ronnie coleman is limiting his growth because he doesnt add fractional plates to the legpress from one week to the other? ::)
(http://www.fractionalplates.com/images/040506bo05.jpg)
your the perfect candidate for bible studies.
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If anyone has a problem with too much stress on the lower back when overhead pressing, you might consider this. Bend the knees slightly and place one foot ahead of the other about 6 to 9 inches (or whatever you may need) like Olympic lifters do. If the back is still a problem than have a little wider grip on the bar, with that one foot ahead of the other. If you tend to have too much of a backbend, when pressing, than you are using too much weight on the bar.
No need to lockout overhead or lower the bar beyond the upper trap/neck area for the PBN. Same with not locking out with front presses. As mentioned before, a lot of very big BB'ers will only press in the middle range of the lift and at a very rapid rate. (this goes for benches and most every other exercise they do) Never a hint of a lockout or to touch any part of the traps/neck area. The TUT thing again. If your into strongman training, power rack or Olympic lifting, than that would not be the case.
Try not to forget DB overhead presses in any serious delt training program. Insure that each side of the body is balanced in way of muscle size and strength, as best as it can be. DB's can also give a better focus of the shoulders themselves. Good Luck.