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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Howard on May 27, 2008, 03:35:49 PM

Title: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Howard on May 27, 2008, 03:35:49 PM
I can do heavy , full rep smith machine squats with no low back problems , not so with reg barbell squats.
Seems to me that they are both pretty similar, but the reg barbell squats always give me low back trouble, not so with smith squats??? I have my ideas, but was curious about this????
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: haider on May 27, 2008, 03:37:40 PM
u don't have to do 'em u know.. go for front squats instead.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Bluto on May 27, 2008, 03:38:28 PM
do leg extensions
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Howard on May 27, 2008, 03:42:22 PM
u don't have to do 'em u know.. go for front squats instead.
I CAN do smith machine squats and enjoy them more than free wt barbell anyway.
I was simply curious as to why the reg barbell ones seem to affect my low back a lot more.
Howard
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Camel Jockey on May 27, 2008, 03:44:01 PM
the straight movement on the smith machine actually gives me problems. I did have serious back problems with the barbell squat before, but it healed, and I think it had to do with improper form. I find that limiting heavy deadlifts helps me to squat without pain. The only deadlifting I actually do now are stiff legged deads on leg day.

Proper form is very important for the barbell squat. It's a flumid motion where you learn not to lockout the knees and just go down swiftly without looking as through you're doing some goodmornings. Kinda like how Justin Harris squats in his youtube videos. That's ideal if you're a tall person, although some nazis would say it isn't.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Howard on May 27, 2008, 03:47:28 PM
the straight movement on the smith machine actually gives me problems. I did have serious back problems with the barbell squat before, but it healed, and I think it had to do with proper form. I find that limiting heavy deadlifts helps me to squat without pain. The only deadlifting I actually do now are stiff legged deads on leg day.

Proper form is very important for the barbell squat. It's a flumid motion where you learn not to lockout the knees and just go down swiftly without looking as through you're doing some goodmornings. Kinda like how Justin Harris squats in his youtube videos. That's ideal if you're a tall person, although some nazis would say it isn't.
I am only 5'10" and in all modesty have good form in the barbell squat. I think the smith machine simply locks me into a form that does not allow for any fwd motion which keeps my low back from going out.
I am 49 and have arthritis now in my lowback/sacrum area ( my doc diagnosed it 3 yrs ago)
Howard
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Camel Jockey on May 27, 2008, 03:50:44 PM
I am only 5'10" and in all modesty have good form in the barbell squat. I think the smith machine simply locks me into a form that does not allow for any fwd motion which keeps my low back from going out.
I am 49 and have arthritis now in my lowback/sacrum area ( my doc diagnosed it 3 yrs ago)
Howard

Damn..

Then you should avoid the barbell squat and other stuff that's known to be dangerous. Can never be too careful when you're older.

The thing is that when you're young, you tend to make mistakes. Simply correcting your form or even mindset can make a huge difference in correcting those mistakes and in creating a new outlook for the exercise as whole.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Howard on May 27, 2008, 03:52:10 PM
Damn..

Then you should avoid the barbell squat and other stuff that's known to be dangerous. Can never be too careful when you're older.

The thing is that when you're young, you tend to make mistakes. Simply correcting your form or even mindset can make a huge difference in correcting those mistakes and in creating a new outlook for the exercise as whole.
yeah, once my back goes out, it can be bad LOL
It sucks getting older, you can lift hard just have to be careful i guess.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Ex Coelis on May 27, 2008, 04:00:42 PM
I'm 6'0 and have to stand with my heels on top of ten pound plates or my knees feel like they'll explode

I prefer barbell squats, but use the smith rack for all presses (bench/shoulder)
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: pumpster on May 27, 2008, 04:07:17 PM
You've got two guys on here who react completely differently. There are no set rules as to which is better, all that matters is which one works and isn't painful. Proper form only goes so far, might not help in some cases. The smith flexes the bod at different angles & the pressure points as to where the resistance rests and are felt are different. Also there's no need to balance.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: The Coach on May 27, 2008, 04:09:24 PM
I can do heavy , full rep smith machine squats with no low back problems , not so with reg barbell squats.
Seems to me that they are both pretty similar, but the reg barbell squats always give me low back trouble, not so with smith squats??? I have my ideas, but was curious about this????

The main difference is function Vs. Non- functional
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: pumpster on May 27, 2008, 04:11:00 PM
The main difference is function Vs. Non- functional

Nope; functional matters mainly for sports applications, not for BB or keeping in shape. He hasn't indicated sports applications and quite frankly, you should know by now that pragmatism when it comes to training especially for someone older than 25 is key, not functionalism.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: JohnnyVegas on May 27, 2008, 04:23:45 PM
The movement of the two from a linear rotation of the hip, knee and ankle is identical.

The free bar squat will allow you to fall forward of backwards so the stabilizing muscles make it harder-and also harder on your lower back.

Since the movement for the quads, adductor and hams are the same, use what feels best to you.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: The Coach on May 27, 2008, 08:30:54 PM
Nope; functional matters mainly for sports applications, not for BB or keeping in shape. He hasn't indicated sports applications and quite frankly, you should know by now that pragmatism when it comes to training especially for someone older than 25 is key, not functionalism.

Every week I pick the dumbest post for the week..........congrats, you won this week :-\
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: BroadStreetBruiser on May 27, 2008, 08:32:50 PM
You know a forum is fucked when "serious question" needs to be said first.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: benz on May 27, 2008, 08:35:25 PM
I can do heavy , full rep smith machine squats with no low back problems , not so with reg barbell squats.
Seems to me that they are both pretty similar, but the reg barbell squats always give me low back trouble, not so with smith squats??? I have my ideas, but was curious about this????

Try with a kid over you, you love that  ::)
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: triple_pickle on May 27, 2008, 08:41:50 PM
howard, here's an excerpt from the book "starting strength" by mark rippetoe & lon kilgore, page 61, somebody posted a link to the pdf version a while ago

"squatting" in a smith machine is an oxymoron. a squat cannot be performed on a smith machine.... sorry.  and a leg press machine - the "hip sled" - may be even less useful.  both of these devices restrict movement in body segments that normally adjust position during a squat, thus restricting the expression of normal biomechanics.  the leg press is particularly heinous in that it allows the use of huge weights.... a 1000 lb leg press is as irrelevant as a 500 lb quartersquat.

because of your back you may stick to front squats though
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: candidizzle on May 27, 2008, 08:52:30 PM
BUUULLLLSHIITTTTT

 come on guys your smarter than this

one exercise superior to others just because its older ?

this is body building ... whatever builds your quads best and what ever your most comfortable doing then do THAT


squats = just one of many ways to work the quads
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: triple_pickle on May 27, 2008, 08:59:26 PM
BUUULLLLSHIITTTTT

 come on guys your smarter than this

one exercise superior to others just because its older ?

this is body building ... whatever builds your quads best and what ever your most comfortable doing then do THAT


squats = just one of many ways to work the quads


translation = i do quarter squats on a smith machine with 3 plates per side and my legs are monstrous 23"
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: CARTEL on May 27, 2008, 09:46:55 PM
I believe the answer to the question is this...

Men do regular squats no matter what.

Soccer Moms and Housewives use the Smith Machine.

NUT UP HOWARD!
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: JohnnyVegas on May 27, 2008, 09:51:37 PM
howard, here's an excerpt from the book "starting strength" by mark rippetoe & lon kilgore, page 61, somebody posted a link to the pdf version a while ago

"squatting" in a smith machine is an oxymoron. a squat cannot be performed on a smith machine.... sorry.  and a leg press machine - the "hip sled" - may be even less useful.  both of these devices restrict movement in body segments that normally adjust position during a squat, thus restricting the expression of normal biomechanics.   the leg press is particularly heinous in that it allows the use of huge weights.... a 1000 lb leg press is as irrelevant as a 500 lb quartersquat.

because of your back you may stick to front squats though

This is why you do not listen to stupid BBers who write stupid books.

The rotation in all three joints-hip, knee and ankle are identical in a smith squat, free squat and a squat machine like Cybex or Bodymasters.

The leg press is a different story, the rotation in all three joints is substantially less than a squat.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: The Coach on May 27, 2008, 10:54:39 PM
Johnny Vegas, correct me if I'm wrong maybe I missed something in your posts.....BUT, what rotations are you referring too? Both exercises are saggital plain, closed chain exerxises. What rotation are you referring too?
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: The Coach on May 27, 2008, 10:57:07 PM
Johnny Vegas, correct me if I'm wrong maybe I missed something in your posts.....BUT, what rotations are you referring too? Both exercises are saggital plain, closed chain exerxises. What rotation are you referring too?
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: JohnnyVegas on May 27, 2008, 11:06:29 PM
Johnny Vegas, correct me if I'm wrong maybe I missed something in your posts.....BUT, what rotations are you referring too? Both exercises are saggital plain, closed chain exerxises. What rotation are you referring too?

Your upper body rotates forward at the hip-it flexes-since one of the quadraceps (rectus femoris) crosses the hip it affects lower leg development.

Your lower leg rotates at the knee, and your foot roates at the ankle, all three joints affect muscle development of the various leg muscles. The more rotation in all three joints, the more developed your legs become thru a larger ROM. That is why a leg press is not the best movement for legs.
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: dawakaman on May 27, 2008, 11:38:20 PM
this is what Charles Poliquin has to say about Smithmachine squats, and i agree.

Peace
D
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: Monster81 on May 27, 2008, 11:43:41 PM
i do them both
Title: Re: Serious question about Smith Machine squats vs barbell squats?
Post by: kyomu on May 28, 2008, 02:43:49 AM
i do them both
Me too.
But the free weight version is always golden for me.
Complete compound movement is always superior when it comes to muscle mass.