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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: headhuntersix on May 29, 2008, 07:19:39 AM
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EARLY LAST EVENING, I was speaking with a friend and he jokingly asked if Obama had made any gaffes during the day. "Well," I responded, "only if you consider his claim that his uncle was one of the first soldiers in to liberate Auschwitz a gaffe." My friend laughed, knowing that the Red Army had liberated Auschwitz and figuring that it was highly unlikely that Obama had an uncle who was a foot soldier for Stalin.
Some people think that Obama was caught red-handed in a lie with the statement about his uncle. That's ridiculous. He did have a great-uncle who served in Europe during WWII and was one of Patton's soldiers who liberated the Ohrdurf camp at Buchenwald. The mangling of facts here isn't a lie, just another misstatement and another surprising sign of Obama's historical ignorance.
I posted this in this way because it sums up how I feel on this particular Obama screw-up. I really wonder what goes through this idiots head. Once again, if he's speaking off the cuff, he scews things up. I also have to believe that he talked through his remarks with his staff. Nobody caught that Auschwitz was in Poland. I would think that Obama the peace maker would know that the biggest/most recognized Nazi death camp was located in what is now a Nato country and an important ally. I don't think he lied, I think he only knows what he's prepared for and unlike Bush, Obama is supposed to be this super smart guy who will change the world for America.
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smarter than bush
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Bush is not running for President...we all agree Bush has issues. I'm talking about the guy trying to be president that doesn't have a basic grasp of history.
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Depends on how one defines 'smart'. Ultimately it doesn't matter too much because all the options suck.
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I'm guessing....
He referred to 'Auschwitz', because that's the name that most people know...it's almost like a 'brand name' for Nazi atrocities.
BUT, if his uncle was actually on the ground at Ohrdurf, then he should've said so. I generally do not like people attempting to use the lives of relatives as political capital, but if he merely sought to honor his uncle on Memorial Day, then at the very least, he should've been honest about what his uncle was a part of.
Naturally, the Democratic spin machine will argue that liberating one death camp = liberating them all, but those of us with any sense know that's not how it works.
Good catch, HH6.
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What a scoundrel Obama is...a liar!
It was Obama's GREAT uncle and the concentration camp he helped liberate was Buchenwald and NOT AUSCHWITZ.
..[He] admits that the Auschwitz part of the story wasn't true, and that it was in fact Obama's great uncle he was referring to, not his uncle, but according to Obama spokesman Bill Burton, there's an innocent explanation. In a statement, Burton said, "Senator Obama's family is proud of the service of his grandfather and uncles in World War II -- especially the fact that his great uncle was a part of liberating one of the concentration camps at Buchenwald. Yesterday he mistakenly referred to Auschwitz instead of Buchenwald in telling of his personal experience of a soldier in his family who served heroically."
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/05/27/obama_holocaust/index.html
Let's string this guy up for lying to get votes!
Or we could string up this guy instead?:
"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."
- George W. Bush, September 12 2002
"We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons."
- George Bush, February 8 2003
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."
- George Bush, March 17 2003
"Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases."
- Bush in October 2002.
"Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda."
- Bush in January 2003 State of the Union address.
"Iraq has also provided Al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training."
- Bush in February 2003.
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Usually, I'm onboard with you, Decker, but Obama has presented himself as 'the higher standard', so that's what he should be held to when it comes to speaking honestly with Americans.
We know that Bush lies, we know that Hillary lies, but since Obama wants to be the one who doesn't lie, then he should be dressed down for embellishing the truth.
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Obama was president of Harvard Law review, no?
Mccain was ranked 894 out of 899 students at the naval academy. He also doesn't know that al-q isn't trained in Iran.
So if obama is stupid, what does that make mccain?
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Usually, I'm onboard with you, Decker, but Obama has presented himself as 'the higher standard', so that's what he should be held to when it comes to speaking honestly with Americans.
We know that Bush lies, we know that Hillary lies, but since Obama wants to be the one who doesn't lie, then he should be dressed down for embellishing the truth.
All politicians misspeak. All politicians lie. That is the price of campaign rhetoric. Obama's no exception and he's no different.
I don't think he embellished. I think he confused his facts. Whether that was intentional or not, it doesn't really matter to me b/c I don't see this as any sort of a defining issue.
If we look to our politicians for truth.....
Give me their platforms...that is what helps me decide.
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All politicians misspeak. All politicians lie. That is the price of campaign rhetoric. Obama's no exception and he's no different.
I don't think he embellished. I think he confused his facts. Whether that was intentional or not, it doesn't really matter to me b/c I don't see this as any sort of a defining issue.
If we look to our politicians for truth.....
Give me their platforms...that is what helps me decide.
I agree. :o
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"and he went up to the attic for 6 months, and we never really saw him" haha sounds like he must have read Anne Frank's diary.
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Bush is not running for President...we all agree Bush has issues. I'm talking about the guy trying to be president that doesn't have a basic grasp of history.
when someone says "smarter than bush"
they mean...
since you seem to be completely satisfied with the job bush has done, you should be delighted with obama since he is smarter
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I agree with you Decker.
Its newsworthy cause it is a significant mistake, however, newsworthy for one report. Its not the kind of mistake that he'll loose votes over. Politicians make mistakes all the time. Just like some of the errors Hillary & McCain make, its ok to mention them but the f'n journalists & media harp on this shit for days. Its all about hype, ratings and getting the big story. Our election process needs to be focused on the issues. Why don't they list each major issue and compare the candidates views. That would be best...but its not as juicy or entertaining, so we rarely see that. We need substance in American right now, not bullshit.
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The best leader isn't always the smartest person. The best leader surrounds himself with smart people and makes good decisions.
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I'm guessing....
He referred to 'Auschwitz', because that's the name that most people know...it's almost like a 'brand name' for Nazi atrocities.
BUT, if his uncle was actually on the ground at Ohrdurf, then he should've said so. I generally do not like people attempting to use the lives of relatives as political capital, but if he merely sought to honor his uncle on Memorial Day, then at the very least, he should've been honest about what his uncle was a part of.
Naturally, the Democratic spin machine will argue that liberating one death camp = liberating them all, but those of us with any sense know that's not how it works.
Good catch, HH6.
I think its ok that he mentions his uncle...It was in conjunction with a speech that made mention of PTSD. I have to wonder how much his folks discuss this stuff before he goes on stage.
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The best leader isn't always the smartest person. The best leader surrounds himself with smart people and makes good decisions.
The people around bush are smart. They did EXACTLY what they said they'd do in that 2000 PNAC document.
They said we needed a 'new pearl harbor' to justify $ and support (domestically and global) to set up a pipeline thru arabia (afghanistan thru iran thru iraq).
2 nations down, 1 to go!
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the best leader knows facts, he does not make them up as he goes along ---Otto Von Bismarck
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The best case for war is the one you don't have to keep changing.
What were all the revised reasons for invading iraq?
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The best leader isn't always the smartest person. The best leader surrounds himself with smart people and makes good decisions.
Which means.."oh by the way Harvard guy..the damm Sov's liberated that camp. Is he surrounding himself with the best. I think instead of pointing fingers at Bush..lets look at the guy we're talking about. Oh 240 since Hamas and other oragnizations have already come out in the media and said that AQI has has help from Iran..I'll let u in on big secret...AQI is getting help from Iran.
240 not smart enough.....500,00 troops in 2003 and we'd have alot less to talk about.
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240 not smart enough.....500,00 troops in 2003 and we'd have alot less to talk about.
Some believe that is by design.
You end the war that fast, and it's not an occupation, and what happens?
we don't put in 41 bases.
we don't get the 80% oil contract deal.
we don't give haliburton all that $ for 5 years of supporting 300k men.
we don't fill up our strategic oil reserve so we can bomb iran with minimal disruption?
I'm sure there's many other examples of how a small group wouldn't have profited in that time.
Face it, war is good for business, if you're in the business of war. If the war had ended clean in Summer of 2003, a lot of bush's friends wouldn't be nearly as rich, agreed?
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Some believe that is by design.
You end the war that fast, and it's not an occupation, and what happens?
we don't put in 41 bases.
we don't get the 80% oil contract deal.
we don't give haliburton all that $ for 5 years of supporting 300k men.
we don't fill up our strategic oil reserve so we can bomb iran with minimal disruption?
I'm sure there's many other examples of how a small group wouldn't have profited in that time.
Face it, war is good for business, if you're in the business of war. If the war had ended clean in Summer of 2003, a lot of bush's friends wouldn't be nearly as rich, agreed?
HH=IZOWNED
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I agree with you Decker.
Its newsworthy cause it is a significant mistake, however, newsworthy for one report. Its not the kind of mistake that he'll loose votes over. Politicians make mistakes all the time. Just like some of the errors Hillary & McCain make, its ok to mention them but the f'n journalists & media harp on this shit for days. Its all about hype, ratings and getting the big story. Our election process needs to be focused on the issues. Why don't they list each major issue and compare the candidates views. That would be best...but its not as juicy or entertaining, so we rarely see that. We need substance in American right now, not bullshit.
It is fascinating to watch, tbh, election news covering who said bitter, what race someone is, what gender someone is, how much money someones wife has, whose wife made up recipes or not etc - with minimal talk of any issues. I followed the election like mad, and only way I really knew the platforms was to seek them out on the individual websites. Our elections are all mega boring, some old people come out and discuss issues and crap and not once do they let us know the juicy stories like who had a $400 haircut. We just hear about education, crime prevention, future financial growth etc.
As much I am am enjoying your Hollywood saga election process [seriously], if I was a citizen I think I would feel the same as you.
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the best leader knows facts, he does not make them up as he goes along ---Otto Von Bismarck
It was an honest mistake on Obama's part.
Not as bad as McCain not knowing the difference between Shias and Sunnis and getting a free pass on national security.
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This is a binary election. 1 or 0. You're a hawk or a dove. You love the war and borrowing, or you want to stop the war instantly.
Choose your side.
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We just hear about education, crime prevention, future financial growth etc.
Imagine that. An election focused solely on issues. We have that Hollywood nonsense in local elections too.
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It was an honest mistake on Obama's part.
Not as bad as McCain not knowing the difference between Shias and Sunnis and getting a free pass on national security.
honest mistake. how many honest mistakes can this guy make before people see he is a liar and a phony.
Sorry if my family had a "family story" then I would know the facts
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Mccain did what...he said that Iran was not backing AQI...well his mistake was saying it...not the info.
youandme.........this is for u.
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honest mistake. how many honest mistakes can this guy make before people see he is a liar and a phony.
Sorry if my family had a "family story" then I would know the facts
And which politician in US history has not been a liar or a phony?
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I agree...but he's supposed to be fore change and hope and all that crap. If Hil did it, well thats the game...he's supposed to be different. If he's not different then his message is all bullshit and all ur left with are his policies which don't look a whole lot different then Hil's.
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I agree...but he's supposed to be fore change and hope and all that crap. If Hil did it, well thats the game...he's supposed to be different. If he's not different then his message is all bullshit and all ur left with are his policies which don't look a whole lot different then Hil's.
His message of change seems to be pretty constant and unchanging. That message shouldn't transform him into a character unable to err or lie.
How does the story about his uncle compromise his platform?
He's not christ.
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"only way I really knew the platforms was to seek them out on the individual websites."
CQ, besides a few speaches on C-span here & there, this is the only way I know the specific differences between the candidates as well!! I guess there's always going to be some focus on the spicy stuff but we must ask our media for more substance and less sensationalism. Thats hard to do...but I suppose we keep criticizing the media.
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His supporters believe he is..or something short of that...thats not my point. He has a long list of gaffes....my point was that don't folks prepare this guy, and doesn't he have a firm grasp of history. Shoot one story or mistake would be sensationalism but this is not. he has been billed as the second coming...here is today's op-ed from the WSJ.
For months, Barack Obama has had the image of an incandescent, golden-tongued Wundercandidate. That image may be fraying now.
As smart and credentialed as he is, Sen. Obama is often an indifferent speaker without a teleprompter. He has large gaps in his knowledge base, and is just as likely to dig in and embrace a policy misstatement as abandon it. ABC reporter Jake Tapper calls him "a one-man gaffe machine."
Take the Auschwitz flub, where Mr. Obama erroneously claimed last weekend in New Mexico that his uncle helped liberate the Nazi concentration camp. Reporters noted Mr. Obama's revised claim, that it was his great uncle who helped liberate Buchenwald. They largely downplayed the error. Yet in another, earlier gaffe back in 2002, Mr. Obama claimed his grandfather knew U.S. troops who liberated Auschwitz and Treblinka – even though only Russian troops entered those concentration camps.
That hardly disqualifies Mr. Obama from being president. But you can bet that if Hillary Clinton had done the same thing it would have been the focus of much more attention, especially after her Bosnia sniper-fire fib. That's because gaffes are often blown up or downplayed based on whether or not they further a story line the media has attached to a politician.
When John McCain claimed, while on a trip to Iraq in March, that Sunni (as opposed to Shiite) militants in Iraq are being supported by Iran, coverage of the alleged blunder tracked Democratic attacks on his age and stamina. (In fact, Iran may well be supplying both Sunni and Shiite militants.) Dan Quayle, tagged with a reputation as a dumb blond male, never lived down his misspelling of "potatoe."
Mr. Obama, a former editor of the Harvard Law Review, has largely been given a pass for his gaffes. Many are trivial, such as his suggestion this month that America has 57 states, and his bizarre statement in a Memorial Day speech in New Mexico that America's "fallen heroes" were present and listening to him in the audience.
Some gaffes involve mangling his family history. Last year in Selma, Ala., for example, he said that his birth was inspired by events there which took place four years after he was born. While this gaffe can be chalked up to fatigue or cloudy memory, others are more substantive – such as his denial last April that it was his handwriting on a questionnaire in which, as a state senate candidate, he favored a ban on handguns. His campaign now contends that, even if it was his handwriting, this doesn't prove he read the full questionnaire.
Mr. Obama told a Portland, Ore., crowd this month that Iran doesn't "pose a serious threat to us," saying that "tiny countries" with small defense budgets aren't much to worry about. But Iran has almost one-fourth the population of the U.S. and is well on its way to developing nuclear weapons. The next day Mr. Obama had to reverse himself and declare he had "made it clear for years that the threat from Iran is grave."
Last week in Orlando, Fla., he said he would meet with Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chávez to discuss, among other issues, Chávez's support of the Marxist FARC guerrillas in Colombia. The next day, in Miami, he insisted any country supporting the FARC should suffer "regional isolation." Obama advisers were left explaining how this circle could be squared.
In a debate last July, Mr. Obama pledged to meet, without precondition, the leaders of Iran, North Korea, Syria and Cuba. He called President Bush's refusal to meet with them "ridiculous" and a "disgrace."
Heavily criticized, Mr. Obama dug in rather than backtrack. He's claimed, in defense of his position, that John F. Kennedy's 1961 summit with Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev in Vienna was a crucial meeting that led to the end of the Cold War.
Not quite. Kennedy himself admitted he was unprepared for Khrushchev's bullying. "He beat the hell out of me," Kennedy confided to advisers. The Soviet leader reported to his Politburo that the American president was weak. Two months later, the Berlin Wall was erected and stood for 28 years.
Reporters may now give Mr. Obama's many gaffes more notice. But don't count on them correcting an implicit bias in writing about such faux pas.
Over the years, reporters have tagged a long list of conservative public figures, from Barry Goldwater to Ronald Reagan to George W. Bush, as dim and uninformed. The reputation of some of these men has improved over time. But can anyone name a leading liberal figure who has developed a similar media reputation, even though the likes of Al Gore, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have committed substantial gaffes at times? No reporter I've talked to has come up with a solid example.
It's clear some gaffes are considered more newsworthy than others. But it would behoove the media to check their premises when deciding just how much attention to pay to them. The best guideline might be: Show some restraint and judgment, but report them all
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As smart and credentialed as he is, Sen. Obama is often an indifferent speaker without a teleprompter. He has large gaps in his knowledge base, and is just as likely to dig in and embrace a policy misstatement as abandon it. ABC reporter Jake Tapper calls him "a one-man gaffe machine."
this made me laugh
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And which politician in US history has not been a liar or a phony?
::)
Which politician can't remember family facts?
Funny how you back this up, now claiming that it's acceptable for a person running for president to be a phony and a liar. Pretty twisted perception you have of authority and prestige.
People that are appeased by this, should be overly appeased by Bush then, since they consider him a "phony and a liar"
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this made me laugh
you have similar views of Jesse Jackson Jr. who is also the chairman of the Obama campaign, (highly illiterate person) so that makes sense
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I posted this one because it raises the questions in a more serious manner then some of the gotcha stuff out there.
I have a great uncle who was in German Army..never met him as he died in a Russsin POW camp, yet I know tons about him. his job, his unit, where he was captured. Don't u think having a relative who helped liberate a camp would generate a few talking points with facts. If I were an Obama guy, I'd have all this info ready for Comrade Obama to wip out when needed. Instead he screws the whole thing up. His point was about PTSD...thats been completely lost in his latest gaffe.
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::)
Which politician can't remember family facts?
Funny how you back this up, now claiming that it's acceptable for a person running for president to be a phony and a liar. Pretty twisted perception you have of authority and prestige.
People that are appeased by this, should be overly appeased by Bush then, since they consider him a "phony and a liar"
All politicians are phonies and liars. What's the problem?
I'm not defending Obama. I'm pointing out the obvious. That is my gift. That is my burden.
The politician's platform is what matters to me. You can discuss his rhetoric all day long. Rhetorical errors only become an issue if the liberal media picks up on it and runs with it.
When Bush was running in 2000, he made painful errors and lied on almost a daily basis. Who cares?
However, he also lied about the costs of his tax plan and his record as governor of texas. The liberal media let him slide.
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Ha..u might be making my point..Bush lied or did what he did about minor things and now might be lying about the war. Well so might Obama..and after 8 years of this do u want 4 more. Damm u I'm trying to work. :P
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Ha..u might be making my point..Bush lied or did what he did about minor things and now might be lying about the war. Well so might Obama..and after 8 years of this do u want 4 more. Damm u I'm trying to work. :P
Here's where we get murky. Politicians lie and promise the world on the campaign trail.
Presidents are not on the campaign trail. It's a little different when the leader of the free world plays fast and loose with the facts.
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I agree..but I would argue that this guy is setting up a pattern. He comes off as "Hope and Change" guy and all ur getting is bs smoke and mirrors. Atleast if u vote Hil u know what ur getting.
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I agree..but I would argue that this guy is setting up a pattern. He comes off as "Hope and Change" guy and all ur getting is bs smoke and mirrors. Atleast if u vote Hil u know what ur getting.
What's my alternative?
Vote for McCain? I.e., Bush Redux?
We have 2 choices it seems. More of the same or something a little different.
I'm leaning toward something a little different.
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you have similar views of Jesse Jackson Jr. who is also the chairman of the Obama campaign, (highly illiterate person) so that makes sense
he is?
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yes
from Chicago, he is friends with Obama for awhile now.
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yes
from Chicago, he is friends with Obama for awhile now.
amazing. i was with obama (by default) until that...i have an extreme hatred (like seriously for real) for action jackson and al scampton >:(
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amazing. i was with obama (by default) until that...i have an extreme hatred (like seriously for real) for action jackson and al scampton >:(
So you're going to believe Mr. 18th century philosophy without checking on your own?
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So you're going to believe Mr. 18th century philosophy without checking on your own?
WHY HE HAS NO REASON TO LIE...ILL GO LOOK NOW
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Mccain was ranked 894 out of 899 students at the naval academy. He also doesn't know that al-q isn't trained in Iran.
Are you bullshitting me?
Where are those other 893 students?
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Are you bullshitting me?
Where are those other 893 students?
By this logic all 893 of these probably have done better things with their lives than become a US senator for 12 years.
Good point. ;D
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Are you bullshitting me?
Where are those other 893 students?
most of them didn't have 4-star admirals overseeing all Vietnam operations, as their dad.