Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: shiftedShapes on June 05, 2008, 10:37:06 AM
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Looks like most of the claims being made by supplement companies about post-workout nutrition are unproven.
(http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2008/06/04/fashion/05best-600.jpg)
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/health/nutrition/05Best.html?ref=health&pagewanted=print
June 5, 2008
Personal Best
Real Thought for Food for Long Workouts
By GINA KOLATA
DR. MARK TARNOPOLSKY, a muscle physiology researcher at McMaster University in Canada and a physician, knows all about the exhortations by supplement makers and many nutritionists on what to eat and when to eat it for optimal performance.
The idea is that you are supposed to consume carbohydrates and proteins in a magical four-to-one ratio during endurance events like a long run or bike ride, and right after. The belief is that such nutritional diligence will improve your performance and speed your recovery.
Dr. Tarnopolsky, a 45-year-old trail runner and adventure racer, might be expected to seize upon the nutritional advice. (He won the Ontario trail running series in 2004, 2005 and 2006.)
So might his colleague, Stuart Phillips, a 41-year-old associate professor of kinesiology at McMaster who played rugby for Canada’s national team and now plays it for fun. He also runs, lifts weights and studies nutrition and performance.
In fact, neither researcher regularly uses energy drinks or energy bars. They just drink water, and eat real food. Dr. Tarnopolsky drinks fruit juice; Dr. Phillips eats fruit. And neither one feels a need to ingest a special combination of protein and carbohydrates within a short window of time, a few hours after exercising.
There are grains of truth to the nutrition advice, they and other experts say. But, as so often happens in sports, those grains of truth have been expanded into dictums and have formed the basis for an entire industry in “recovery” products.
They line the shelves of specialty sports stores and supermarkets with names like Accelerade drink, Endurox R4 powder, PowerBar Recovery bar.
“It does seem to me that as a group, athletes are particularly gullible,” said Michael Rennie, a physiologist at the University of Nottingham in England who studies muscle metabolism.
The idea that what you eat and when you eat it will make a big difference in your performance and recovery “is wishful thinking,” said Dr. Rennie, a 61-year-old who was a competitive swimmer and also used to play water polo and rugby.
Here is what is known about proteins, carbohydrates and performance.
During exercise, muscles stop the biochemical reactions used to maintain themselves such as replacing and resynthesizing the proteins needed for day to day activities. It’s not that exercise is damaging your muscles; it’s that they halt the maintenance process until exercise is over.
To do this maintenance, muscles must make protein, and to do so they need to absorb amino acids, the constituent parts of proteins, from the blood. Just after exercise, perhaps for a period no longer than a couple of hours, the protein-building processes of muscle cells are especially receptive to amino acids. That means that if you consume protein, your muscles will use it to quickly replenish proteins that were not made during exercise.
But muscles don’t need much protein, researchers say. Twenty grams is as much as a 176-pound man’s muscles can take. Women, who are smaller and have smaller muscles even compared to their body sizes, need less.
Dr. Rennie said that 10 to 15 grams of protein is probably adequate for any adult. And you don’t need a special drink or energy bar to get it. One egg has 6 grams of protein. Two ounces of chicken has more than 12 grams.
Muscles also need to replenish glycogen, their fuel supply, after a long exercise session — two hours of running, for example. For that they need carbohydrates. Muscle cells are especially efficient in absorbing carbohydrates from the blood just after exercise.
Once again, muscles don’t need much; about one gram of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight is plenty, Dr. Tarnopolsky said. He weighs 70 kilograms, or 154 pounds, which means he would need 70 grams of carbohydrates, or say, 27 ounces of fruit juice, he said.
Asker Jeukendrup, a 38-year-old 14-time Ironman-distance finisher who is an exercise physiologist and nutritionist at the University of Birmingham in England said the fastest glycogen replacement takes place in the four hours after exercise. Even so, most athletes need not worry.
“Most athletes will have at least 24 hours to recover,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “We really are talking about a group of extremely elite sports people who train twice a day.” For them, he said, it can be necessary to rapidly replenish muscle glycogen.
The American College of Sports Medicine, in a position paper written by leading experts, reported that athletes who take a day or two to rest or do less-intense workouts between vigorous sessions can pretty much ignore the carbohydrate-timing advice.
The group wrote that for these athletes, “when sufficient carbohydrate is provided over a 24-hour period, the timing of intake does not appear to affect the amount of glycogen stored.”
For protein, it is not clear what the window is. Some studies concluded it was less than two hours, others said three hours, and some failed to find a window at all.
Dr. Rennie and his colleagues, writing in Annual Reviews of Physiology, concluded that “a possible ‘golden period’ ” for getting amino acids into muscles “remains a speculative, no matter how attractive, the concept.”
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.
“You’d have to control everything, what they do, how they train, and also their carbohydrate and protein intake,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “Those studies become almost impossible to do.”
As for the special four-to-one ratio of carbohydrates to protein, that, too, is not well established, researchers said. The idea was that you need both carbohydrates and protein consumed together because carbohydrates not only help muscles restore their glycogen but they also elicit the release of insulin. Insulin, the theory goes, helps muscles absorb amino acids.
Insulin may stimulate muscle protein synthesis in young rodents and in human cells grown in petri dishes, Dr. Rennie said. But studies in people have shown convincingly that insulin is not required for protein synthesis in adult human beings; it is amino acids that drive protein synthesis. As yet no convincing evidence exists that a special carbohydrate-to-protein ratio makes a noticeable difference in muscle protein maintenance after exercise. “There is no magic ratio,” Dr. Jeukendrup said.
The American College of Sports Medicine is equally skeptical. “Adding protein does not appreciably enhance glycogen repletion,” its paper states.
“Some studies suggested that adding proteins to carbohydrates during exercise can enhance performance,” Dr. Tarnopolsky said. “Many other studies suggested it didn’t do any good.”
Even if there are effects of protein and carbohydrates, they are not important to most exercisers, these researchers say. Serious triathletes and elite runners, who work out in the morning and at night, need to eat between training sessions. But people who are running a few miles a few days a week don’t need to worry about replenishing their muscles, Dr. Phillips said.
Dr. Rennie agreed. “If you are a superathlete, hundredths of a second matter,” he said. “But most Joes and Janes are just kidding themselves,” he said.
Some, like Dr. Jeukendrup, say they use a commercial protein-energy drink after training hard, for convenience.
Other researchers take their own nutritional advice. Dr. Tarnopolsky has a huge glass of juice, a bagel and a small piece of meat after a two- or three-hour run. Or he might have two large pieces of toast with butter and jam and a couple of scrambled eggs. But no energy bars, no energy drinks.
Dr. Phillips might have an energy bar during a long workout. But ordinarily he does not worry about getting a special carbohydrate-to-protein mix or timing his nutrition when he exercises. Instead, Dr. Phillips said, he simply eats real food at regular meals.
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Soooooooo much info/oppinion around.....
...only thing I trust is experience.
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older women have experience mm..
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older women have experience mm..
yes and loose accomodating shitholes.
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women dont shit.
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Other researchers take their own nutritional advice. Dr. Tarnopolsky has a huge glass of juice, a bagel and a small piece of meat after a two- or three-hour run. Or he might have two large pieces of toast with butter and jam and a couple of scrambled eggs. But no energy bars, no energy drinks.
yeah okay lets listen to this guy ::)
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yeah okay lets listen to this guy ::)
stunning refutation of the facts presented.
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i got the worst acne from protien powder
i think you body becomes more prone to pollutants like whey protien
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stunning refutation of the facts presented.
the guy refutes his own argument by posting the bullshit he says he does for post workout nutrition and also by saying 25 grams is the most protein a 175 lb man can take
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Very interesting article. This remind me of what trab told me once when i asked him if he thought food was really that important during a cycle, and he said "Dont believe that bullshit, without food and just roids you will get big no matter what"
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Rat feces, dead insect body parts & dirt. That's what makes up protein powder.
Too think meatheads pay good money for that is incredible.
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you dont need much more than 10 grams of protien per day as pathetic as many of you train for the people who train decently like me no more than 80
let the rest of calories come from fruit, even carrot juice is damn good
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There are various other studies suggesting high protein is needed. ::)
When you workout and exercise, you're going to need more than the norm, that much is obvious. Protein powder just happens to be a quick way to get it.
I also question your motives. You don't even lift weights and enjoy being 140 lbs.
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
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You have to take in the protein to build or maintain the muscle.
No one denies that FOOD is the best protein source, but the various protein supplement products provide a nice, convenient way to take in 30-40g in a short period of time.
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Protein powder is very convenient at certain times of the day. And whey is actually very good for your health.
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you dont need much more than 10 grams of protien per day as pathetic as many of you train for the people who train decently like me no more than 80
let the rest of calories come from fruit, even carrot juice is damn good
10 grams of protein per day ? come on johnny. if you eat 10 grams protein per day i dont carehow much calories your taking in from other sources andmacro's you WILL 100% lose muscle
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stunning refutation of the facts presented.
Um, simply citing one study isn't presenting facts.
I agree that supplements aren't needed. But that doesn't mean that a fairly high protein intake isn't needed. One could get that with regular food.
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the guy refutes his own argument by posting the bullshit he says he does for post workout nutrition and also by saying 25 grams is the most protein a 175 lb man can take
i think he meant at a time
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
;D
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
because the people who claim to get these magic results from the supps forget to tell us about their medicine cabinet.
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These fags are not trying to build muscle.
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10 grams of protein per day ? come on johnny. if you eat 10 grams protein per day i dont carehow much calories your taking in from other sources andmacro's you WILL 100% lose muscle
have you seen him lately?
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the guy refutes his own argument by posting the bullshit he says he does for post workout nutrition and also by saying 25 grams is the most protein a 175 lb man can take
It's a reasonable number. A 175-lb'er won't fully metabolize 50g of protein taken in a single sitting.
I don't have all my guidelines here right now, but used to have my 175ish athletes taking 30-35g per meal, 6-7 times per day.
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Rat feces, dead insect body parts & dirt. That's what makes up protein powder.
Too think meatheads pay good money for that is incredible.
they deserve to be fooled. Here I am presenting them with the scientific consensus as published by one of the most respected publications in the world. It clearly states that there is no evidence that their high protein intakes are productive and they would rather ignore it and continue to believe second and third hand info from muscletech advertorials.
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I believe it. Look at homeless blacks or rasta's. one group hardly eats and the other hardly eats meat. You put two and two together.
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because the people who claim to get these magic results from the supps forget to tell us about their medicine cabinet.
its VEN MORE IMPORTANT for a natural bodybuilder to use supplements. someone on steroids can grow from eating a chicken breast and some other kind of energy calories. a natural bodybuilder is constantly struggling against homeostasis and food is not THAT anabolic.. most natural bodybuilders will only get "anti catablic" results from eating meats unless they are also eating lots of carbohydrates along with those meats... and for most guys eating lots of carbs means getting lots of fat
asupplement like whey protein digests so quickly and has the right amino acid profile that it is, initself, anabolic and results in protein synthesis.
good luck growing and staying lean as a natural without supplements or without great genetics and metabolism.
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It's a reasonable number. A 175-lb'er won't fully metabolize 50g of protein taken in a single sitting.
I don't have all my guidelines here right now, but used to have my 175ish athletes taking 30-35g per meal, 6-7 times per day.
what athletes? I thought you're a photographer who mostly shoots female to male transexuals?
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It's a reasonable number. A 175-lb'er won't fully metabolize 50g of protein taken in a single sitting.
I don't have all my guidelines here right now, but used to have my 175ish athletes taking 30-35g per meal, 6-7 times per day.
you honestly believe that nonsense?
trwe its pretty simple dude..;dont think abotu what the fda or your college nutrition professor told you....just think about what human beings have been feasting on since the dawn of time. meat. meat. more meat. you really think they only ate 10-12 ounces at a time????? 8)
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they deserve to be fooled. Here I am presenting them with the scientific consensus as published by one of the most respected publications in the world. It clearly states that there is no evidence that their high protein intakes are productive and they would rather ignore it and continue to believe second and third hand info from muscletech advertorials.
Find a controled study that shows two classes of athletes - one group with a high protein intake, the other at 15 grams a day. Measure lean body mass after a few months and present your case to us "meatheads"
Better yet, lift weights and take in your 15 grams a day and see where that takes you.
Funny thing to me is that while you cite these studies, you can't distinguish protein intake from supplements. There are plenty here that don't even buy supplements, and get their protein from real food.
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
maybe because they're not AAS/GH/Insulin abusing bodybuilders who want to scam you?
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its VEN MORE IMPORTANT for a natural bodybuilder to use supplements. someone on steroids can grow from eating a chicken breast and some other kind of energy calories. a natural bodybuilder is constantly struggling against homeostasis and food is not THAT anabolic.. most natural bodybuilders will only get "anti catablic" results from eating meats unless they are also eating lots of carbohydrates along with those meats... and for most guys eating lots of carbs means getting lots of fat
asupplement like whey protein digests so quickly and has the right amino acid profile that it is, initself, anabolic and results in protein synthesis.
good luck growing and staying lean as a natural without supplements or without great genetics and metabolism.
did you even read the article? there is no evidence to support your theories.
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Find a controled study that shows two classes of athletes - one group with a high protein intake, the other at 15 grams a day. Measure lean body mass after a few months and present your case to us "meatheads"
Better yet, lift weights and take in your 15 grams a day and see where that takes you.
Funny thing to me is that while you cite these studies, you can't distinguish protein intake from supplements. There are plenty here that don't even buy supplements, and get their protein from real food.
read the article
your high protein intake of real food is based on the propaganda of supplement companies that want you to believe that high protein is essential to peak performance and building muscle so that you are more likely to buy their products to meet your protein "requirements."
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did you even read the article? there is no evidence to support your theories.
not that I 100% agree with dizzle but i guess you gotta do waht you think works for you.
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did you even read the article? there is no evidence to support your theories.
human beings have been eating oatmeal and rice and wheat bread since the dawn of time... ::) oh brother
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maybe because they're not AAS/GH/Insulin abusing bodybuilders who want to scam you?
HAHAHAAHAHA
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what athletes? I thought you're a photographer who mostly shoots female to male transexuals?
I was a fitness consultant back in the day, but wasn't focused on growing that into a viable business, so I gravitated toward the photography instead.
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Guys, tell me something!!
I think it's not that hard to get the required (?) amount of protein from regular food. 5-6 meals with a normal portion of chicken breast/fish/eggs etc. and you are done. Still, protein powder is a big business, hundreds of products etc.
But I have serious problems with complex carbs. Some people say you have to eat 4-5g/bodyweight kg carbs per day when bulking. That's 500 grams of dry rice per day for a 80 kg man, which is a huge amount when cooked. Even if you try to eat it in 5-6 parts. The same with oatmeal. I need low GI complex carb powder, are there any? >:(
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That's 500 grams of dry rice per day for a 80 kg man, which is a huge amount when cooked. Even if you try to eat it in 5-6 parts. The same with oatmeal. I need low GI complex carb powder, are there any? >:(
brown rice and otameal are actually moderately digesting carbohydrates.... you want low glycemic carbs try ezekiel bread, all kinds of beans, barley, and veggies
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you dont lose muscle no matter how low your protien is
you simply just shrink
the pathways and structures of circulation and function are still there just dryed out from any lack of nutrient
soon as you add 'things' back in. those things or nutritients go to the area it correlates with
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human beings have been eating oatmeal and rice and wheat bread since the dawn of time... ::) oh brother
did you even research your fad diet before you adopted it. Here 5 seconds of googling found me the paleo wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet
Criticism of the Paleolithic diet
[edit] Comparative life expectancy
One of the most frequent criticisms of the Paleolithic diet is that it is unlikely that preagricultural hunter-gatherers suffered from the diseases of modern civilization simply because they did not live long enough to develop these illnesses, which are typically associated with old age.[12][16][86][87][88] In response to this argument, advocates of the paleodiet state that while Paleolithic hunter-gatherers did have a short average life expectancy, modern human populations with lifestyles resembling that of our preagricultural ancestors have no or little diseases of affluence, despite sufficient numbers of elderly.[16][89]
[edit] Causes of the diseases of affluence
Critics further contend that food energy excess, rather than the consumption of specific novel foods, such as grains and dairy products, underlies the diseases of affluence. According to Geoffrey Cannon,[12] science and health policy advisor to the World Cancer Research Fund, humans are designed to work physically hard to produce food for subsistence and to survive periods of acute food shortage, and are not adapted to a diet rich in energy-dense foods.[90] Similarly, William R. Leonard, a professor of anthropology at Northwestern University, states that the health problems facing industrial societies stem not from deviations from a specific ancestral diet but from an imbalance between calories consumed and calories burned, a state of energy excess uncharacteristic of ancestral lifestyles.[91]
[edit] Evolutionary logic
The evolutionary assumptions underlying the Paleolithic diet have also been disputed.[13][19][27] According to Alexander Ströhle, Maike Wolters and Andreas Hahn,[19] with the Department of Food Science at the University of Hannover, the statement that the human genome evolved during the Pleistocene (a period from 1,808,000 to 11,550 years ago) is resting on an inadequate, but popular gene-centered view of evolution. They argue that evolution of organisms cannot be reduced to the genetic level with reference to mutation and that there is no one to one relationship between genotype and phenotype.[92]
High-insulinogenic foods, like refined grains, were introduced in the human diet only about 200 years ago.[93]They further question the notion that 10,000 years since the dawn of agriculture is a period not nearly sufficient to ensure an adequate adaptation to agrarian diets.[19] Refering to Wilson D.S. (1994),[94] Ströhle et al. argue that "the number of generations that a species existed in the old environment was irrelevant, and that the response to the change of the environment of a species would depend on the hereditability of the traits, the intensity of selection and the number of generations that selection acts."[93] They state that if the diet of Neolithic agriculturalists had been in discordance with their physiology, then this would have created a selection pressure for evolutionary change and modern humans, such as Europeans, whose ancestors have subsisted on agrarian diets for 400–500 generations should be somehow adequately adapted to it. In response to this argument, Wolfgang Kopp states that "we have to take into account that death from atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease (CVD) occurs later during life, as a rule after the reproduction phase. Even a high mortality from CVD after the reproduction phase will create little selection pressure. Thus, it seems that a diet can be functional (it keeps us going) and dysfunctional (it causes health problems) at the same time."[93] Moreover, S. Boyd Eaton and colleagues have indicated that "comparative genetic data provide compelling evidence against the contention that long exposure to agricultural and industrial circumstances has distanced us, genetically, from our Stone Age ancestors."[16] According to Kopp, the implementation of high-glycemic and high-insulinogenic food, like refined cereals and sugars, into human nutrition only about 200 years, or 10 generations, ago, occurred too recently on an evolutionary time scale for the human genome to adjust.[93]
According to Ströhle et al.,[19] "whatever is the fact, to think that a dietary factor is valuable (functional) to the organism only when there was ‘genetical adaptation’ and hence a new dietary factor is dysfunctional per se because there was no evolutionary adaptation to it, such a panselectionist misreading of biological evolution seems to be inspired by a naive adaptationistic view of life."[95][96]
Katharine Milton, a professor of physical anthropology at the University of California, has also disputed the evolutionary logic upon which the Paleolithic diet is based. She questions the premise that the metabolism of modern humans must be genetically adapted to the dietary conditions of the Paleolithic.[13] According to Milton,[13] "there is little evidence to suggest that human nutritional requirements or human digestive physiology were significantly affected by such diets at any point in human evolution."[97][98][99][100]
[edit] Criticism of low-carbohydrate and high-protein versions
The high protein and low-carbohydrate diet[e] recommended by Loren Cordain and colleagues based on the dietary patterns of worldwide modern-day hunter-gatherers[45][49][101] has attracted a number of criticisms,[12][102] including the following:
[edit] Therapeutic merits
It has been argued that relative freedom from degenerative diseases was, and still is, characteristic of all hunter-gatherer societies irrespective of the macronutrient characteristics of their diets.[18][103][104] Katharine Milton states that "hunter-gatherer societies, both recent and ancestral, displayed a wide variety of plant-animal subsistence ratios, illustrating the adaptability of human metabolism to a broad range of energy substrates. Because all hunter-gatherer societies are largely free of chronic degenerative disease, there seems little justification for advocating the therapeutic merits of one type of hunter-gatherer diet over another."[103]
According to Marion Nestle, a professor in the Department of Nutrition and Food Studies at New York University, judging from research relating nutritional factors to chronic disease risks and to observations of exceptionally low chronic disease rates among people eating vegetarian, Mediterranean and Asian diets, it seems clear that plant-based diets are most associated with health and longevity.[11][21]
Ströhle, Wolters and Hahn[19] argue that hunters like the Inuit, who traditionally obtain most of their dietary energy from wild animals and therefore eat a low-carbohydrate diet,[105] seem to have a high mortality from coronary heart disease,[106] and that many populations of horticulturists, pastoralists and simple agriculturists living today are ingesting a high-carbohydrate diet without having signs and symptoms of CHD.[57][59][107][108][109] In response to this criticism, Wolfgang Kopp states that "carbohydrate food, consumed by hunter-gatherers, is high in fiber and low-glycemic in effect,[110][111] eliciting small amounts of insulin only. [...] Are high-carbohydrate diets atherogenic per se? Not if they have a low glycemic load. In this point, Stroehle et al. are right. However, it is the question, whether diets high in low-glycemic plant food (which is relatively high in indigestible fiber and relatively low in carbohydrate) should be labeled as “high-carbohydrate” diets."[93] Kopp also says that it is very likely that diets with only a moderately increased glycemic load are atherogenic to some degree.[66][112]
According to Erica Frank, professor of health care at the University of British Columbia, eating an animal also involves absorbing the toxins stored in its body fat. She quotes the EPA: "The average American intake is between 300 and 500 times the safe daily dose of dioxin."[20] She argues that dioxin, which is stored in animal fat, is a cancer-causing substance and disrupts hormones and the immune system. "People would be in error if they think they're doing themselves a service by eating bison."[20]
[edit] Anthropological evidence
Carbohydrate rich root vegetables may have been eaten in high amounts by Paleolithic humans.[113]Critics have argued that there are insufficient data to determine the average daily intake of animal and plant foods by Paleolithic humans.[13][14][21][96][114] Furthermore, according to Katharine Milton, "data from ethnographic studies of nineteenth and twentieth century hunter-gatherers, as well as historical accounts and the archeological record, suggest that ancestral hunter-gatherers enjoyed a rich variety of different diets. Thus estimates of nutrient proportions for "the Paleolithic diet" are hypothetical, at best."[13] Echoing Milton's criticism, Ströhle et al.[19] argue that it is questionable if all hunter-gatherers living between 150,000 and 10,000 years ago in different geographical regions ate a low-carbohydrate diet.[1][115][116] They indicate that, because the plant–animal subsistence ratios of contemporary hunter-gatherers vary in a remarkable manner (0–90% food from gathering; 10–100% food from hunting and fishing),[117][118] it is likely that the macronutrient intake of preagricultural humans varied enormously.[115]
They also refer to a hypothesis (the 'Plant underground storage organs hypotheses') that suggests that carbohydrate tubers were eaten in high amounts by our preagricultural ancestors.[113][119][120][121] They add:[19] "Provided that humans are incapable of metabolizing high amounts of dietary protein and given the fact that wild African mammals are relatively low in fat, a diet supplemented with carbohydrates from tubers seems to be more efficient in meeting the energy requirements of early hunters and gatherers than a diet based on lean meat."[122][123] Ströhle et al. further mention that Staffan Lindeberg, an advocate of the Paleolithic diet, has accounted for a plant-based diet rich in carbohydrates as being consistent with the human evolutionary past.[1][3]
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read the article
your high protein intake of real food is based on the propaganda of supplement companies that want you to believe that high protein is essential to peak performance and building muscle so that you are more likely to buy their products to meet your protein "requirements."
I have.
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.
You said protein wasn't needed. The article states that consuming protein speeds up protein synthesis, which is important for any bodybuilder, recreational lifter, and athelete.
You fail.
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you dont need much more than 10 grams of protien per day as pathetic as many of you train for the people who train decently like me no more than 80
let the rest of calories come from fruit, even carrot juice is damn good
Read the article.
Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.
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did you even research your fad diet before you adopted it. Here 5 seconds of googling found me the paleo wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleolithic_diet
YEAH, okay meat is a fad diet... ::)
shifted im nto going to play skool teacher here on the g & o.. maybe if you ever want to get past tha 145 lb mark so so happily wear start a thread on the nutrition board and i might fill you in
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
hahha its so true------its always some old scrawny middle-aged guy at the gym who knows everything except how to not be both skinny and fat at the same time----or the 155lb personal trainer who are trying to lecture me on why protein isnt nessecary to build muscle
how do you seriously keep a straight face when someone with 60-70lbs less muscle is "setting you straight"
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Although studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis, no one has shown that that translates into improved performance. The reason, Dr. Jeukendrup said, is that effects on performance, if they occur, won’t happen immediately. They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.
“You’d have to control everything, what they do, how they train, and also their carbohydrate and protein intake,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “Those studies become almost impossible to do.”
These researchers haven't even shown how they've come to their conclusions, dumbass.
They haven't even done a controled study. ;D I mean the best way to prove their claims would be to take two classes of weightlifters and athletes and have them consume different amounts of protein for 10 weeks and then look at the results afterwards. The atheletes would need to be of similar background, weight, lifestyle etc.
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this is the same bullshit recycled schtick from 2 years ago to try to get a response----boring :-\
its not even worth arguing about CJ--------
look at daddywaddy since he's discovered he doesnt need that much protein---he hasnt grown any
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hahha its so true------its always some old scrawny middle-aged guy at the gym who knows everything except how to not be both skinny and fat at the same time----or the 155lb personal trainer who are trying to lecture me on why protein isnt nessecary to build muscle
how do you seriously keep a straight face when someone with 60-70lbs less muscle is "setting you straight"
The article doesn't even prove anything. Infact, it speculates about the amount of carbs and protein an athlete would need to consume after exercise.
No controled study done because they claim it's difficult. Pretty much a bunch of old people who weigh 140 lbs mouthing off without any measured study.
And it in no way states that a fair amount of protein isn't needed for someone who lifts weights.
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I have.
You said protein wasn't needed. The article states that consuming protein speeds up protein synthesis, which is important for any bodybuilder, recreational lifter, and athelete.
You fail.
yeah no more than 20 grams after a workout, which is once or twice a day at most. This is what the research supports, So now explain to me why your stupid ass thinks that you need 100s of grams of protein.
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The article doesn't even prove anything. Infact, it speculates about the amount of carbs and protein an athlete would need to consume after exercise.
No controled study done because they claim it's difficult. Pretty much a bunch of old people who weigh 140 lbs mouthing off without any measured study.
And it in no way states that a fair amount of protein isn't needed for someone who lifts weights.
hahah this idiot didnt even really read his article---just another cut and paste hero
god this little schtick was played out years ago on getbig------find something creative and new to bullshit about at least
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The article doesn't even prove anything. Infact, it speculates about the amount of carbs and protein an athlete would need to consume after exercise.
No controled study done because they claim it's difficult. Pretty much a bunch of old people who weigh 140 lbs mouthing off without any measured study.
And it in no way states that a fair amount of protein isn't needed for someone who lifts weights.
This article outlines what is known by scientists about post-workout nutrition. If you think you have information that goes beyond this most likely it is second or third hand propaganda from supplement companies. Feel free to contest this by posting info from a respectable source that is not in anyway financed by supps.
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hahha its so true------its always some old scrawny middle-aged guy at the gym who knows everything except how to not be both skinny and fat at the same time----or the 155lb personal trainer who are trying to lecture me on why protein isnt nessecary to build muscle
how do you seriously keep a straight face when someone with 60-70lbs less muscle is "setting you straight"
i'm pretty middle-of-the-pack, and it juts baffles me how many people from the lower third of the build spectrum think they know more than everyone else.
here's a story and i -wish- i was making this up. i really like the NO products (sorry, but there is a palpable effect in my workout, particularly since i keep my calories under control), and i was talking with another dude about which one i like best. in the middle of this, some guy about a buck fifty comes over to tell me NO products are a total scam and do nothing. he then went over to the smith machine and proceeded to bang out a monstrous set of semi-squats with 175 and it looked like it was really hard for the poor guy.
this isn't even an aberration. i keep getting really asinine nutritional and workout advice from dudes that would probably benefit from doing everything "wrong". ::)
BTW, for you math folks, a 10 pound bag of protein is about $50 before shipping. that's about 180 22g servings = 3960g of protein. find another way to get nearly 4 kilos of protein for $50.
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magoo i agree with you... certain n.o. products are really really helpful at getting a good porkouts.. some of them make you feel much stronger, and the extra blood flow can only help grow faster...
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magoo i agree with you... certain n.o. products are really really helpful at getting a good porkouts.. some of them make you feel much stronger, and the extra blood flow can only help grow faster...
yeah man. i mean, even outside all the science-y stuff behind it, anecdotally i can tell you i notice a difference beyond placebo. it's not even that i'm necessarily "stronger" in the workout, but i feel a good kind of energy, not the weird buzz i get from ECA supplements.
i doubt it's a huge improvement over when i was in a massive calorie surplus, but considering i'm down about 14 pounds from where i was a while ago and stronger, i'll claim it's made a difference.
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
Hahahah, quote of the fucking day.
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yeah man. i mean, even outside all the science-y stuff behind it, anecdotally i can tell you i notice a difference beyond placebo. it's not even that i'm necessarily "stronger" in the workout, but i feel a good kind of energy, not the weird buzz i get from ECA supplements.
i doubt it's a huge improvement over when i was in a massive calorie surplus, but considering i'm down about 14 pounds from where i was a while ago and stronger, i'll claim it's made a difference.
now what would make you think that you could distinguish between the effects of the substance and the placebo effect?
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Hahahah, quote of the fucking day.
haha ;D
as mars would say...protein was necessary?
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
It isn't. Plenty of pros will tell you (sometimes only off the record to protect their endorsements) that supps are BS.
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It isn't. Plenty of pros will tell you (sometimes only off the record to protect their endorsements) that supps are BS.
list one
even nasser who claims he only needs 100-150 grams of protein a day acknowledges he's an exception
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It isn't. Plenty of pros will tell you (sometimes only off the record to protect their endorsements) that supps are BS.
list them and provide quotes. until then, start taking some scam supplements and maybe you can shop in the adult section of the store for once.
as for knowing the placebo effect isn't in play, the fact is i've tried about six of them and each caused a different reaction. one of them screwed with my stomach and didn't do shit. white flood worked well but the tingles and heart rate jump was too much.
but hell, we're just talking protein. and if you're claiming protein is a scam you're just retarded.
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list them and provide quotes. until then, start taking some scam supplements and maybe you can shop in the adult section of the store for once.
as for knowing the placebo effect isn't in play, the fact is i've tried about six of them and each caused a different reaction. one of them screwed with my stomach and didn't do shit. white flood worked well but the tingles and heart rate jump was too much.
but hell, we're just talking protein. and if you're claiming protein is a scam you're just retarded.
HAHAHA you're the retard here.
I just gave you an article showing that there is no support for the massive post-workout protein dosing that the supplement industry encourages to sell their powdered milk.
Dexter Jackson lives on McDonalds, Levrone on fish, Ronnie on chicken. If you see any of them eating a protein shake it's probably to appease sponsors.
Ask GH15 if the guys rely on protein powders he will tell you the truth. That Nassar tells you he uses 100g of protein a day should show you that you don't need much proteing the man was walking around lean close to 300lbs. You think that you need 200g at a skinny fat 200 LOL.
Any of the effects you reported above could be induced by a placebo.
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as Dan Duchaine once said..
Milk DOES NOT do a body good
and a certain soda endorsed by mr joe blow basketball player isn't all that refreshing
and you r going after protein powder ? :-\
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the only sup that works is creatine.
For most natural weight lifters eating two or three solid meals a day is enough to garanty an optimal muscle growth.
Another thing; proteins repair and build muscles, but not all kind of proteins, and the proteins you find in powders are low quality proteins which almost can't compete with quality proteins from solid real food.
Seriously, can anyone prove that proteins powders work? We all tried, or are using it at the moment, but can you tell the difference between when you're using and when you're not? (for natural weights lifters only of course).
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For most natural weight lifters eating two or three solid meals a day is enough to garanty an optimal muscle growth.
wrong... whether your cutting or bulding you need to eat every so often to avoid a loss in nitrogen in order to stay anabolic/anti catabolic
Another thing; proteins repair and build muscles, but not all kind of proteins, and the proteins you find in powders are low quality proteins while whey protein does not provide any kind of sustained protein support, it is, for the short while it is in your system, absolutely one of the BEST proteins for muscle growth. which almost can't compete with quality proteins from solid real food.
Seriously, can anyone prove that proteins powders work? We all tried, or are using it at the moment, but can you tell the difference between when you're using and when you're not? (for natural weights lifters only of course).
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HAHAHA you're the retard here.
I just gave you an article showing that there is no support for the massive post-workout protein dosing that the supplement industry encourages to sell their powdered milk.
Dexter Jackson lives on McDonalds, Levrone on fish, Ronnie on chicken. If you see any of them eating a protein shake it's probably to appease sponsors.
Ask GH15 if the guys rely on protein powders he will tell you the truth. That Nassar tells you he uses 100g of protein a day should show you that you don't need much proteing the man was walking around lean close to 300lbs. You think that you need 200g at a skinny fat 200 LOL.
Any of the effects you reported above could be induced by a placebo.
brutal truth.
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the only sup that works is creatine.
For most natural weight lifters eating two or three solid meals a day is enough to garanty an optimal muscle growth.
Another thing; proteins repair and build muscles, but not all kind of proteins, and the proteins you find in powders are low quality proteins which almost can't compete with quality proteins from solid real food.
Seriously, can anyone prove that proteins powders work? We all tried, or are using it at the moment, but can you tell the difference between when you're using and when you're not? (for natural weights lifters only of course).
i use designer protein..if Dan duchaine endorsed it good enough for me...
i also work long hours in a class room where i often cannot grab a good meal..
a quick protein drink washed down with some simple carbs does the trick...
pepsi anyone! ;D
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lol stfu with your babblings, the only person you're impressing here with your jibbling is yourself, haha what a moron. Look I've seen pics of you and you look like shit, a beginner at best who's into lifting weights since only 6 months, so please, stfu already.
Yes, from what we've seen you lost fat, but it doesn't make you a muscle building expert, especially at 19 y/o .
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I believe there may be a number of studies that prove people ingesting supplemental protein powder grew more lean mass than the control group during a program of weight lifting. ::)
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lol stfu with your babblings, the only person you're impressing here with your jibbling is yourself, haha what a moron. Look I've seen pics of you and you look like shit, a beginner at best who's into lifting weights since only 6 months, so please, stfu already.
regardless of what you look like, regardless of what i look like, regardless of anything at all... you are absolutely wrong and the corrections i made to your post are accurate
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humm... like I said before... protein powder is a waste of money...
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humm... like I said before... protein powder is a waste of money...
Considering the cost of chicken/steak/eggs, etc. I would say you're a little off there.
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Considering the cost of chicken/steak/eggs, etc. I would say you're a little off there.
Probably.. but I bet that you still eat your hicken/steak/eggs along with protein powder... ;)
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yeah man. i mean, even outside all the science-y stuff behind it, anecdotally i can tell you i notice a difference beyond placebo. it's not even that i'm necessarily "stronger" in the workout, but i feel a good kind of energy, not the weird buzz i get from ECA supplements.
i doubt it's a huge improvement over when i was in a massive calorie surplus, but considering i'm down about 14 pounds from where i was a while ago and stronger, i'll claim it's made a difference.
I think the Nitric Oxide boosting part of these supplements is a scam. It's a smart move to include stimulants in them, otherwise most wouldn't notice shit = no repeat sales. Many of them include creatine, one supplement that does something (BW increase and strength).
Personally I've never noticed anything from any NO supplement. I wouldn't pay for them but most recently someone gave me a bottle of SAN Vault. Can't say I noticed any increase in pump and I double dosed it too.
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I believe there may be a number of studies that prove people ingesting supplemental protein powder grew more lean mass than the control group during a program of weight lifting. ::)
yep and I bet they were conducted at Saskatchewan community college and funded by Met-rx or maybe Muscletech.
Do you disagree with the article I posted?
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Personally I've never noticed anything from any NO supplement. I wouldn't pay for them but most recently someone gave me a bottle of SAN Vault. Can't say I noticed any increase in pump and I double dosed it too.
That's the problem, you need to tripple dose it everyday for a week to load, then it will work.
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yep and I bet they were conducted at Saskatchewan community college and funded by Met-rx or maybe Muscletech.
Do you disagree with the article I posted?
Support the sport. Buy supplements.
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Support the sport. Buy supplements.
A more efficient way to support the "sport" would be to send a paypal donation directly to your favorite Pro, very little supp money gets through to the "athletes".
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
because they don't have supplement contracts.
your not very big yourself either. brutal 15 inch guns on magoo.
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Supplements aren't needed, no one advocates that more than me.
But to say you shouldn't eat a decent amount of protein if you workout is stupid.
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Weight training (when done properly) is far more intense than what these guys are doing. Rugby, Running etc. piece of shit.
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Supplements aren't needed, no one advocates that more than me.
But to say you shouldn't eat a decent amount of protein if you workout is stupid.
yes and the research seems to show that 20g post workout is more than enough and 10-15g is decent.
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http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/suppl_5/513S
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15570142?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11098159?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15690307?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
etc etc etc.
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http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/suppl_5/513S
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15570142?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11098159?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15690307?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
etc etc etc.
Please don't post actual scientific research on getbig. We wouldn't want any of these anti-protein morons to actually wise up some.
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http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/abstract/19/suppl_5/513S
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15570142?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11098159?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=5&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15690307?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=2&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed
etc etc etc.
Minimal whey protein with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in trained young men. (http://Minimal whey protein with carbohydrate stimulates muscle protein synthesis following resistance exercise in trained young men.)
Effects of resistance training and protein plus amino acid supplementation on muscle anabolism, mass, and strength. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16988909?ordinalpos=4&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum)
The effects of protein and amino acid supplementation on performance and training adaptations during ten weeks of resistance training. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16937979?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&linkpos=1&log$=relatedarticles&logdbfrom=pubmed)
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magoo i agree with you... certain n.o. products are really really helpful at getting a good porkouts.. some of them make you feel much stronger, and the extra blood flow can only help grow faster...
What the fuck is a "Porkout?"
Are there things, Candizzle?
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What the fuck is a "Porkout?"
Are there things, Candizzle?
fucking a girls ass while simultaneously eating sweet and sour pork
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fucking a girls ass while simultaneously eating sweet and sour pork
sounds reasonable
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What?...supplements are a scam?!?!...for shame!!!
LOL, is this a surprise to anyone? For crying out loud, you don't even KNOW if the amount of protein on the label is even IN the powder! There's NO regulation,hence, no accountability....add on some fancy marketing and you've got a cash-cow ready for a' MILKIN'!
Here's the facts: Time and time again scientists have done research that points towards the conclusion that people do NOT need monster amounts (or even moderate amounts!) of protein.
There's NO money to be made in 'real food'...and most people WANT an easier way to get their nutrients.
Well...I haven't spent a dime on supps for over three years and I'm STILL growing, and have kept all the gains I've made over the years. Plain food. Training. Sleep. Go figure.
Do yourself an experiment: take the amount of money you spend on supps for three months and save it in a jar. Then, spend your hard earned money on real food, healthy and nutritious. Train as usual and see for YOURSELF that supps don't make a difference to anything but your WALLET.
Hell, you could try a month. You'd probably still save enough to pay your cable/internet bill.
Most people would be truly suprised to see the results they'd get from a clean, healthy diet...using the RDA values for nutrients, no doubt!
Try it...what have you got to lose?
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using the RDA values for nutrients, no doubt!
Try it...what have you got to lose?
muscle
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muscle
Maintain your slightly higher caloric intake, and keep all other things the same...you won't shrink. Try it.
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why is it the people who claim supplements are a scam are never very big?
Maybe because theyre scientists (Doctors) not Bodybuilders....
They either make such claims based on research or because theyre "drug free"
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What?...supplements are a scam?!?!...for shame!!!
LOL, is this a surprise to anyone? For crying out loud, you don't even KNOW if the amount of protein on the label is even IN the powder! There's NO regulation,hence, no accountability....add on some fancy marketing and you've got a cash-cow ready for a' MILKIN'!
Here's the facts: Time and time again scientists have done research that points towards the conclusion that people do NOT need monster amounts (or even moderate amounts!) of protein.
There's NO money to be made in 'real food'...and most people WANT an easier way to get their nutrients.
Well...I haven't spent a dime on supps for over three years and I'm STILL growing, and have kept all the gains I've made over the years. Plain food. Training. Sleep. Go figure.
Do yourself an experiment: take the amount of money you spend on supps for three months and save it in a jar. Then, spend your hard earned money on real food, healthy and nutritious. Train as usual and see for YOURSELF that supps don't make a difference to anything but your WALLET.
Hell, you could try a month. You'd probably still save enough to pay your cable/internet bill.
Most people would be truly suprised to see the results they'd get from a clean, healthy diet...using the RDA values for nutrients, no doubt!
Try it...what have you got to lose?
Hmmm... so PubMed is in on the scam too. :o
Wow, this conspiracy has reached every level of academia! ::)
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Hmmm... so PubMed is in on the scam too. :o
Wow, this conspiracy has reached every level of academia! ::)
Where is the study showing protein powders cause more muscle growth than the same amount supplied through regular food? Give a group a protein supplement but not control food intake = of course there will be an effect since many don't eat well.
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Where is the study showing protein powders cause more muscle growth than the same amount supplied through regular food? Give a group a protein supplement but not control food intake = of course there will be an effect since many don't eat well.
;)
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Shifted Shapes, You have got to be kidding.. No Evidence?.... How about half a million weighlifters that all swear by It?
The results speak for themselves..... But I guess you would rather listen to "Doctor Spoonchest"
What titles have those people in your article won?
I don't mean to hate on you, but you are grossly mis-informed.
Sure... "Real Food" will be sufficient. But can a person eat that much day in & day out?
It is too time consuming & too difficult to eat that much tissue protein.
I will polish up my trophy from The Mr. Tampa Bay, and continue to slam protein shakes..
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i have a degree in biochem and i know that is bullshit!
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10 grams of protein per day ? come on johnny. if you eat 10 grams protein per day i dont carehow much calories your taking in from other sources andmacro's you WILL 100% lose muscle
Which he has. Haven't you been around?
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because they don't have supplement contracts.
your not very big yourself either. brutal 15 inch guns on magoo.
i'll take my winnings from the PL board bench contest and get some nitro-tech, i think.
i forget, how many reps did you get? oh right, you didn't enter. thanks for playing.
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What?...supplements are a scam?!?!...for shame!!!
LOL, is this a surprise to anyone? For crying out loud, you don't even KNOW if the amount of protein on the label is even IN the powder! There's NO regulation,hence, no accountability....add on some fancy marketing and you've got a cash-cow ready for a' MILKIN'!
Here's the facts: Time and time again scientists have done research that points towards the conclusion that people do NOT need monster amounts (or even moderate amounts!) of protein.
There's NO money to be made in 'real food'...and most people WANT an easier way to get their nutrients.
Well...I haven't spent a dime on supps for over three years and I'm STILL growing, and have kept all the gains I've made over the years. Plain food. Training. Sleep. Go figure.
Do yourself an experiment: take the amount of money you spend on supps for three months and save it in a jar. Then, spend your hard earned money on real food, healthy and nutritious. Train as usual and see for YOURSELF that supps don't make a difference to anything but your WALLET.
Hell, you could try a month. You'd probably still save enough to pay your cable/internet bill.
Most people would be truly suprised to see the results they'd get from a clean, healthy diet...using the RDA values for nutrients, no doubt!
Try it...what have you got to lose?
bump for truth
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NO PROTEINS ...NO MUSCLES....Only protein can help to built muscles it can be from whole foods or from proteins powder if you cannot eat enough protein from your whole foods.
Serge Nubret
http://www.sergenubret.com
http://www.sergenubret.com/muscleawards
http://www.sergenubret.com/personaltrainer
hhahahah quote from the master-------one of the greatest BBers who, in my opinion came closest to achieving perfection
he used to eat 7lb's of horsemeat a day ;)
but what would he know about building muscle------Im definitely more likely to believe some anonymous kid on hte internet trolling for a reaction ::)
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(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/pet+and+serge+BW.jpg)
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(http://mywebpage.netscape.com/IronGameLegendsF/pet+and+serge+BW.jpg)
Incredible
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These protein power haters need to put up or shut up. Look at this beast...tell me this would be possible without 600g of protein per day....
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=180297.0;attach=210928;image)
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hhahahah quote from the master-------one of the greatest BBers who, in my opinion came closest to achieving perfection
he used to eat 7lb's of horsemeat a day ;)
but what would he know about building muscle------Im definitely more likely to believe some anonymous kid on hte internet trolling for a reaction ::)
Yes he is surely more knowledgeable than the scientific community. Why didn't the NYtimes ask for Serge Nubret's opinion before going to press. Terrible journalism.
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These protein power haters need to put up or shut up. Look at this beast...tell me this would be possible without 600g of protein per day....
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=180297.0;attach=210928;image)
It wouldn't be possible but for protein powder, as a natural you need to consume massive amounts of protein to develop that level of BACNE.
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Yes he is surely more knowledgeable than the scientific community. Why didn't the NYtimes ask for Serge Nubret's opinion before going to press. Terrible journalism.
your little cut and paste study has already been torn apart
where does it in the study say that whey protein is ineffectual or not a great choice for protein ??? OH yes it doesnt but you continue to spew out this crap with little heed to the actual content of the article. you rip apart protein supplements and try to pass it off as scientific fact but your article only talks about how people MAY need less protein after working out (it says nothing about the quality of whey or casein proteins) but he concedes this is not absolute scientific fact because in his own words "They can take 6 to 10 weeks of training. That makes it very hard to design and carry out studies to see if athletes really do improve if they consume protein after they exercise.
“You’d have to control everything, what they do, how they train, and also their carbohydrate and protein intake,” Dr. Jeukendrup said. “Those studies become almost impossible to do.”
how can this be an accurate study if they cannot control all factors----this is simple 8th grade science.
studies by Dr. Jeukendrup and several others have shown that consuming protein after exercise speeds up muscle protein synthesis,
hahah so speeding up protein synthesis is not benefical in your expert eyes ???
even the doctor doing the study says he takes protein supplementsSome, like Dr. Jeukendrup, say they use a commercial protein-energy drink after training hard, for convenience
you have proven yourself to be a dimwit and a bad troll. Next time make sure you actually carefully read the article before you start preaching :D ;)
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your little cut and paste study has already been torn apart
where does it in the study say that whey protein is ineffectual or not a great choice for protein ??? OH yes it doesnt but you continue to spew out this crap with little heed to the actual content of the article. you rip apart protein supplements and try to pass it off as scientific fact but your article only talks about how people MAY need less protein after working out (it says nothing about the quality of whey or casein proteins) but he concedes this is not absolute scientific fact because in his own words how can this be an accurate study if they cannot control all factors----this is simple 8th grade science.
hahah so speeding up protein synthesis is not benefical in your expert eyes ???
even the doctor doing the study says he takes protein supplements
you have proven yourself to be a dimwit and a bad troll. Next time make sure you actually carefully read the article before you start preaching :D ;)
you're an idiot, so I will break it down for you in simple terms.
The article explains that all available evidence suggests that no more than 20g of protein is necessary only after a workout (which BBers rarely do more than once a day). This is a miniscule amount so it is not necessary to use supplementary protein to obtain it as you will surely get at least this much in a meal of normal foods. Hence protein supplements are unnecessary.
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you're an idiot, so I will break it down for you in simple terms.
The article explains that all available evidence suggests that no more than 20g of protein is necessary only after a workout (which BBers rarely do more than once a day). This is a miniscule amount so it is not necessary to use supplementary protein to obtain it as you will surely get at least this much in a meal of normal foods. Hence protein supplements are unnecessary.
you're arguing with people who outweigh you by upwards of 100 pounds, most of it muscle, and nearly all of which are natural and rather enjoy using protein supplements.
convenience, effectiveness, cost efficiency, pick your reason. at less than 150 pounds, no one's going to give a good god damn what you have to say.
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It wouldn't be possible but for protein powder, as a natural you need to consume massive amounts of protein to develop that level of BACNE.
that kid looks like a beastt ! :D
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you're arguing with people who outweigh you by upwards of 100 pounds, most of it muscle, and nearly all of which are natural and rather enjoy using protein supplements.
convenience, effectiveness, cost efficiency, pick your reason. at less than 150 pounds, no one's going to give a good god damn what you have to say.
My weight has no logical bearing on the truth value of this statement:
you're an idiot, so I will break it down for you in simple terms.
The article explains that all available evidence suggests that no more than 20g of protein is necessary only after a workout (which BBers rarely do more than once a day). This is a miniscule amount so it is not necessary to use supplementary protein to obtain it as you will surely get at least this much in a meal of normal foods. Hence protein supplements are unnecessary.
If you could refute my statement logically you would, instead you go for an ad hominem attack to distract from this inconvenient truth.
Since I'm a sporting man though I will address your attack. It is false. I just weighed myself at 153.5, and there is not a single natural BBer in history who has been over 253.5 lean. That is heavier than all but the most recent Mr. Olympia. You are truly deluded. Somehow supplement propagandists have convinced you that you can achieve the steroid look without steroids by using their products (I'm guessing it's their expert use of photos of mass monsters to appeal to your drive to get huge). Unfortunately, for you the only results you have gotten are fat gain and money loss. At over 200lbs you are mostly fat and don't even look muscular.
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you're an idiot, so I will break it down for you in simple terms.
The article explains that all available evidence suggests that no more than 20g of protein is necessary only after a workout (which BBers rarely do more than once a day). This is a miniscule amount so it is not necessary to use supplementary protein to obtain it as you will surely get at least this much in a meal of normal foods. Hence protein supplements are unnecessary.
my god you are dim!!!!----first of all you didnt address any of my points, you obviously didnt read my post just as you didnt really read teh article------I acknowledged they were questioning how much protein an athlete needs but the Dr's also acknowledged their study was fundamentally flawed as it had no controls and also stated “Some studies suggested that adding proteins to carbohydrates during exercise can enhance performance,” Dr. Tarnopolsky said. “Many other studies suggested it didn’t do any good.”
so they are saying that this study is in no way definitive proof as to how much protein an athlete needs and if it increases performance. yet you preach that their findings are the end all be all---which they do not even admit.
the study didnt study different athletes of various sizes etc. DO you really think an athlete that is 260lbs of lean muscle only needs the same paltry 15grams of protein as an athlete that weighs 155lbs ???
your title of the thread is inherently flawed as the article doesnt address whether or not whey protein works---all they say is an athlete MAY not need as much, but do not say that getting your protein from a supplement is bad. Even Dr. Jeukendrup admits he uses a protein energy drink after working out.
Im through debating you since you have no concept of debate and only repeat yourself and sling insults without reading or understaning my stance and addressing the points theiren.
END POINT-----------the study was not controlled and was flawed on so many levels it holds no scientific merit
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my god you are dim!!!!----first of all you didnt address any of my points, you obviously didnt read my post just as you didnt really read teh article------I acknowledged they were questioning how much protein an athlete needs but the Dr's also acknowledged their study was fundamentally flawed as it had no controls and also stated so they are saying that this study is in no way definitive proof as to how much protein an athlete needs and if it increases performance. yet you preach that their findings are the end all be all---which they do not even admit.
the study didnt study different athletes of various sizes etc. DO you really think an athlete that is 260lbs of lean muscle only needs the same paltry 15grams of protein as an athlete that weighs 155lbs ???
your title of the thread is inherently flawed as the article doesnt address whether or not whey protein works---all they say is an athlete MAY not need as much, but do not say that getting your protein from a supplement is bad. Even Dr. Jeukendrup admits he uses a protein energy drink after working out.
Im through debating you since you have no concept of debate and only repeat yourself and sling insults without reading or understaning my stance and addressing the points theiren.
END POINT-----------the study was not controlled and was flawed on so many levels it holds no scientific merit
good you should stay out of this because you are too close minded to benefit from the discussion or learn from scientific findings that are directly applicable to your training.
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so how much protein should we eat per day?
E
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you're arguing with people who outweigh you by upwards of 100 pounds, most of it muscle, and nearly all of which are natural and rather enjoy using protein supplements.
convenience, effectiveness, cost efficiency, pick your reason. at less than 150 pounds, no one's going to give a good god damn what you have to say.
lol.
pwned.
why is someone who is a MASSIVE 150 pounds on a bodybuilding board anyway, unless of course they compete in ms. fitness.
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so how much protein should we eat per day?
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The same amount that you consume daily with the regular blowjobs you provide to men in your neighborhood.
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so how much protein should we eat per day?
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it has been proven that the most active athletes need not consume more than 1 gram per pound of body weight.
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The same amount my mother consumes daily with the regular blowjobs that she provides you every day.
???
E