Getbig.com: American Bodybuilding, Fitness and Figure
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Spicy Shushi on June 08, 2008, 05:06:54 PM
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how long will this stay up before the muscle tech calls ron to take it down
???
A Self-Described Steroid User Loses Job as Fitness Model
By STEPHANIE CLIFFORD
Published: June 9, 2008
With the camera rolling, Christian Boeving, a fitness model who is paid to endorse bodybuilding products, freely admitted he had used steroids since he was 16.
That was two years ago, when a friend from the gym he uses, Christopher Bell, was filming “Bigger, Stronger, Faster,” a documentary on steroids that was released on May 30.
Mr. Boeving said he had nearly forgotten about the interview until he heard from the film’s representatives just before it was shown in January at the Sundance Film Festival. “They said, ‘Look, we’re just letting you know you mentioned the word steroids in it,’ ” Mr. Boeving said. “But I didn’t think I would get into that much trouble, because I thought it was pretty apparent that the top people in the industry use steroids to look like we do.”
A company whose products he endorsed, Iovate Health Sciences, apparently did not think so, and promptly severed Mr. Boeving’s contract. Iovate Health Sciences did not return calls for comment last week.
Mr. Boeving had represented over-the-counter dietary supplements in Iovate’s MuscleTech division, including Hydroxycut, which is meant to burn fat, and Nitro-Tech, which is meant to build muscle. But the type of performance-enhancing steroids Mr. Boeving referred to in the movie are legal only with a doctor’s prescription; he said in an interview that he had a prescription for testosterone.
While he may not been breaking the law, Mr. Boeving was apparently breaking a taboo in the bodybuilding world, one that Mr. Bell’s documentary was aiming to expose. “Ever since I was a kid, I’ve been looking at muscle magazines,” Mr. Bell said in an interview. “I would see these guys that are huge, and they’d say, take this pill and you’ll look like this. We know that’s not the case.”
Mr. Boeving said he had worked with Iovate for nearly nine years and was in the midst of renegotiating his contract when “Bigger, Stronger, Faster” had its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival in January. Mr. Boeving said that after the premiere, he was suspended without pay; he flew to the Iovate headquarters in Ontario to plead his case, but, he said, MuscleTech has not renewed his contract.
Mr. Boeving said he was not allowed to say how much the contract was worth, but said the company’s contracts for athletes typically ranged from $36,000 to $300,000 a year. “I was able to live off my contract, put it that way,” he said.
Though the loss of income is tough, Mr. Boeving said, he does not regret his on-screen candor.
“Even in the film, I said, ‘look, I do take the products I said I take — I do take Hydroxycut, I do take Nitro-Tech, but I take other things as well,’ ” he said. “They felt like people were going to walk away feeling like steroids, not MuscleTech products, made my physique what it is, and they have built this industry on telling people, ‘This is what I did to build my physique,’ ” Mr. Boeving said.
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Props to him for being honest!!!
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(http://www.poplarbluffcityguide.com/system/images/iconchristianboeving_fs.jpg)
(http://www.emusclemag.com/content/mmi276/mmi276.jpg)
loks a lot like sepe when he was modeling , exactly the same kind of physique; anormally full while being lean at the same time, something a truly natural bodybuilder can't achieve .
(http://www.hayhouse.co.uk/images/productpics/2459_c1.gif)
thanks for confirming to those who doubted it that even models are on low doses of steroids .
now a real natural bodybuilder training the same way as them but not using steroids;
(http://www.madison2media.com/tyler1.jpg)
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His sacrifice is noble
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now you know why so many guys lie... ;D
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He doesn't exactly "blast" MuscleTech. ::)
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I just saw that movie today and I was wondering if he would get in trouble for being so honest about taking steroids. The interview he did was about the honesty of the supplement ads with the ads claiming you can look like the models if you take the supplements and Boeving admitted that he took steroids in addition to the supplements. He said he has been taking steroids since he was 16 years old.
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I wouldn't have said anything, not with $$$ at stake.
What did he think was going to happen? The supplement industry is built on saying supplements are close to or as good as steroids and if you actually take steroids you'll kill yourself and your a big cheater.
If i was Muscletech i would have got rid of him as well.
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To add; Boeving is employed by Muscletech because he looks 'natural', especially compared to Branch, Jay, Dex etc.
So if kids out there see that he needs steroids to look like he does it just kills Muscletech even more than say Branch saying it.
I saw him at an expo about 4 years ago, i always wondered if the look he gave me was cause he was gay or something else lol....
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A "Self-Described" Steroid User Loses Job as Fitness Model
By STEPHANIE CLIFFORD
Published: June 9, 2008
With the camera rolling, Christian Boeving, a fitness model who is paid to endorse bodybuilding products, freely admitted he had used steroids since he was 16.
That was two years ago, when a friend from the gym he uses, Christopher Bell, was filming “Bigger, Stronger, Faster,” a documentary on steroids that was released on May 30.
Mr. Boeving said he had nearly forgotten about the interview until he heard from the film’s representatives just before it was shown in January at the Sundance Film Festival. “They said, ‘Look, we’re just letting you know you mentioned the word steroids in it,’ ” Mr. Boeving said. “But I didn’t think I would get into that much trouble, because I thought it was pretty apparent that the top people in the industry use steroids to look like we do.”
A company whose products he endorsed, Iovate Health Sciences, apparently did not think so, and promptly severed Mr. Boeving’s contract. Iovate Health Sciences did not return calls for comment last week.
Mr. Boeving had represented over-the-counter dietary supplements in Iovate’s MuscleTech division, including Hydroxycut, which is meant to burn fat, and Nitro-Tech, which is meant to build muscle. But the type of performance-enhancing steroids Mr. Boeving referred to in the movie are legal only with a doctor’s prescription; he said in an interview that he had a prescription for testosterone.
While he may not been breaking the law, Mr. Boeving was apparently breaking a taboo in the bodybuilding world, one that Mr. Bell’s documentary was aiming to expose. “Ever since I was a kid, I’ve been looking at muscle magazines,” Mr. Bell said in an interview. “I would see these guys that are huge, and they’d say, take this pill and you’ll look like this. We know that’s not the case.”
Mr. Boeving said he had worked with Iovate for nearly nine years and was in the midst of renegotiating his contract when “Bigger, Stronger, Faster” had its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival in January. Mr. Boeving said that after the premiere, he was suspended without pay; he flew to the Iovate headquarters in Ontario to plead his case, but, he said, MuscleTech has not renewed his contract.
Mr. Boeving said he was not allowed to say how much the contract was worth, but said the company’s contracts for athletes typically ranged from $36,000 to $300,000 a year. “I was able to live off my contract, put it that way,” he said.
Though the loss of income is tough, Mr. Boeving said, he does not regret his on-screen candor.
“Even in the film, I said, ‘look, I do take the products I said I take — I do take Hydroxycut, I do take Nitro-Tech, but I take other things as well,’ ” he said. “They felt like people were going to walk away feeling like steroids, not MuscleTech products, made my physique what it is, and they have built this industry on telling people, ‘This is what I did to build my physique,’ ” Mr. Boeving said.
more --> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/business/media/09steroids.html?_r=1&ref=business&oref=slogin
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oh brother...this was already posted ::)
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bump
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Christian is a good guy but don't don't ever have him emcee your show. And he doesn't have as much power with mags as he says (article wise)
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funny thing is most of the people on this board still think that protein powder and / or creatine are useful.
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funny thing is most of the people on this board still think that protein powder and / or creatine are useful.
shifted shapes = fucking idiot
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He would be VERY wise not to try any kind of smear campaign or voice too publicly his opinions about a company with bottomless pockets I'm thinking...
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He would be VERY wise not to try any kind of smear campaign or voice too publicly his opinions about a company with bottomless pockets I'm thinking...
Are you joking? MT Inc has done enough to shamelessly OWn themself each and everytime they release another 'special-4 page ad report'.
Big Nation Radio! 6pm. Mr. Boeving SPEAKS out!
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oh SNAP i forgot today was monday
KICKASS
3 NEW RADIO SHOWS TO LISTEN TOOOO
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What are the three? Please fill me in. Thanks.
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Listen to CHRISTIAN BOEVING Live and Uncensored tonight on BIG NATION Radio at 7pm EST/4pm PST!
Wow! Christian in the New York Times and on BNR the same night...sounds a little too coincidential!
Thanks Vendetta!
Listen & Chat Live: UltimateTalkRadio.com (http://UltimateTalkRadio.com)
Call In: 646-595-3895
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Is this the guy who did all these "Muscletech-Interviews" ?? :D ::)
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Listen to CHRISTIAN BOEVING Live and Uncensored tonight on BIG NATION Radio at 7pm EST/4pm PST!
Wow! Christian in the New York Times and on BNR the same night...sounds a little too coincidential!
Thanks Vendetta!
Listen & Chat Live: UltimateTalkRadio.com (http://UltimateTalkRadio.com)
Call In: 646-595-3895
Are you saying someone from Big Nation may have provided a scoop to the NY Times in an effort to boost your ratings?
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in this business it seems you get penalized and hated for actually telling the truth, like Nasser did only for the idiot fans he did it for to turn around and attack him
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in this business it seems you get penalized and hated for actually telling the truth, like Nasser did only for the idiot fans he did it for to turn around and attack him
Hi Nasser.
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He would be VERY wise not to try any kind of smear campaign or voice too publicly his opinions about a company with bottomless pockets I'm thinking...
Dude, look at this way. I'd be willing to bet if someone REALLY REALLY wanted to they could bring a class action for the false statements and advertising that would eventually put them under. They have good convincing ads but anyone with any commonsense knows it bullshit.
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in this business it seems you get penalized and hated for actually telling the truth, like Nasser did only for the idiot fans he did it for to turn around and attack him
Why do you always bring up Nasser? We get it you like Nasser. Can't you move on and speak on something intelligently without talking about this goofy looking freak.
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oh brother...this was already posted ::)
Do people care any more now than they did before?
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Is there anyone who is now NOT going to buy MuscleTech products because he has admitted this? I wonder. ::)
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Why don't you bring up Nasser more? We love Nasser. Can we focus more on him and speak on why he was unjustly denied the Olympia Crown?
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jay cutler should stand up for him and help him get his contract back
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Are you saying someone from Big Nation may have provided a scoop to the NY Times in an effort to boost your ratings?
Just throwing something out there for the conspiracy buffs...but thanks for paying attention!
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Of course they dumped Christian for being honest. When asked if he used steroids, Jay Cutler was evasive at best and dishonest at worst. After all, when asked point blank if he uses steroids, anything other than a 'YES' for Mr. Cutler is playing a little loose with the truth.
Bottom Line:
BOEVING = FIRED
CUTLER = SIGNED RENEWAL
Is anyone surprised that a DISHONEST company felt that being represented by an HONEST spokesperson was against their corporate code of integrity?
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n this business it seems you get penalized and hated for actually telling the truth, like Nasser did only for the idiot fans he did it for to turn around and attack him
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i am shocked :o
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i must listen
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Or perhaps Boeving didnt do much for them, and they are looking at new people, as I know they just signed some. Some people come, some people go.
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Or perhaps Boeving didnt do much for them, and they are looking at new people, as I know they just signed some. Some people come, some people go.
Ron, a little honesty is good for the soul. Seriously, you should try it sometime.
Better yet, listen to BigNationRadio tonight and learn the truth! If anyone from Muscletech wants to call in, the number is:
646-595-3895
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Ron, a little honesty is good for the soul. Seriously, you should try it sometime.
::) coming from an ambulance chaser who defends grunters to get himself on tv...very noble of you to be honest with your 4 listeners ::)
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Ron, a little honesty is good for the soul. Seriously, you should try it sometime.
So they fired him? Or was Christian's contract was up, and they didn't renew. You know, there is a big difference. They didn't renew Kamali's contact up to, so whoa...
On any given year, Iovate gets new people, and does not renew others.
Get with it, and stop having Christian blame everyone for them not renewing the contract.
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Why wouldn't he be fired for that?
The company wants people to believe it's their bullshit supplements making him big.
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they want liars to sell the products...not everybody believes mattCock's evaluations as truth
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Of course they dumped Christian for being honest. When asked if he used steroids, Jay Cutler was evasive at best and dishonest at worst. After all, when asked point blank if he uses steroids, anything other than a 'YES' for Mr. Cutler is playing a little loose with the truth.
Bottom Line:
BOEVING = FIRED
CUTLER = SIGNED RENEWAL
Is anyone surprised that a DISHONEST company felt that being represented by an HONEST spokesperson was against their corporate code of integrity?
I was going to make a comparison between the above and when Dior dropped that nutbar Sharon Stone for her comments on Tibet/China, but I lost my train of thought. :-\
/but i agree with Ed
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here he is
(http://images.yuku.com/image/pjpeg/0201422d230a1bde5325ca7fd8f6cdc063052f.pjpg)
(http://metabods.com/gallery5/images/%5Cchristian_boeving_od-16806d.jpg)
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Or perhaps Boeving didnt do much for them, and they are looking at new people, as I know they just signed some. Some people come, some people go.
I think someone else nailed it best on the other thread on this topic. Christian had that "natural" appeal, which would attract the common Joe more than a picture of Ronnie or Jay.
How many of us have had friends look at our BB magazines and point to a physique like Christian's and say, "oh, I wouldn't mind looking like that" or, "see I wanna look like that...NOT TOO MUCH" ::)
In fact, most gym goers that aren't into the whole bodybuilding lifestyle wouldn't know any better that Christian's NOT natural, and would otherwise consider his physique attainable. I think physiques/faces like his do more for their sales than bloated 300lb pregnant ogar :o
Most businesses in HARDCORE BODYBUILDING learn quickly that if they want to make money, they open their doors and start looking to APPEAL to the masses, rather than the small HARDCORE FANS.
I remember trying to order a few NPC workout pants and I asked the guy why they changed the logo from the front double bicep picture to just the label "NPC", of course he said to attract a larger crowd. Selling to ONLY the MUSCLEHEADS wasn't paying the bills.
props to Boeving for having a shred of integrity in this "business"
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Ron you are not fooling anyone with your comments-------its obvious you would have negative financial ramifications from speaking about Muscletech "honestly"
Sellout, "corporate fluff" comments like this just dilute the strength of your words and opinions concerning BBing and supplement companies.
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Drugs, hookers & gambling... never tell the truth. Never.
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So they fired him? Or was Christian's contract was up, and they didn't renew. You know, there is a big difference. They didn't renew Kamali's contact up to, so whoa...
On any given year, Iovate gets new people, and does not renew others.
Get with it, and stop having Christian blame everyone for them not renewing the contract.
Hahahahahahaha! Ron Himself. OWNED! Christian Boeving just said it on Big Nation Radio that "Ron Avidan is lying!" He was fired!
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It's possible that this is just the straw that broke the camel's back.
Watch this video:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2006arnold_vid.htm (http://www.jdoqocy.com/click-1881271-10409943?url=http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/2006arnold_vid.htm)
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Oh... so there was a signed contract? If there was, then I am wrong. I will admit it. I didn't realize there was a contract. That Iovate signed and sent back to him?
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Hahahahahahaha! Ron Himself. OWNED! Christian Boeving just said it on Big Nation Radio that "Ron Avidan is lying!" He was fired!
Does Christian read getbig???
If so, why doesn't he post?
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Oh... so there was a signed contract? If there was, then I am wrong. I will admit it. I didn't realize there was a contract. That Iovate signed and sent back to him?
HAHAHAHAHAHAAA RON = PWND!!!!!!!
Serves you right for deleting all of TP4U's meltdown threads ::)
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Still waiting on that signed contract.... that they renewed him????
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Ron, listen to the show before posting. Christian described EXACTLY what happened.
1) Muscletech sent him a contract renewal (no one does this unless they plan to re-sign an athlete -- just ask Priest or Alves or Dugdale)
2) Christian made some minor changes and sent it back.
3) Word came back to Muscletech about Christian's statements in the movie.
4) Muscletech claimed they were sending out the executed contract but never did.
5) Christian was told they were reviewing matters.
6) Christian flew to the Arnold to speak with MT employees and was rebuffed.
7) Christian flew to Toronto to meet with MT execs and their lawyers so they could view the film and reach a decision.
8) Three weeks later, he was officially informed that he had been terminated.
If they chose not to renew his contract because they were moving on, where's the letter stating that? Why tell him to fly to Toronto to review the contents of the movie with their lawyers?
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Part of what makes an "athlete", model, or whatever marketable is a good image. After all his years in the industry you'd think he'd of had the business savvy to just not comment on anything that would paint him in a bad light. You think Nike would have endorsed someone like MJ if he had said he'd been taking steroids since he was 16 yrs old? It's possible but he certainly wouldn't have been the poster child for so many products. Not a smart move to say the least.
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2) Christian made some minor changes and sent it back.
Christian changed the contract that they sent. Ok. He didnt like what they had, made a counteroffer, hence changing it.
3) Word came back to Muscletech about Christian's statements in the movie. Muscletech claimed they were sending out the executed contract but never did.
Ok.. please lets see that they agreed to the contract.
5) Christian was told they were reviewing matters.
Ok.. this is better... they received a counteroffer to the original contract. That makes sense.
6) Christian flew to the Arnold to speak with MT employees and was rebuffed. 7) Christian flew to Toronto to meet with MT execs and their lawyers so they could view the film and reach a decision. Three weeks later, he was officially informed that he had been terminated. If they chose not to renew his contract because they were moving on, where's the letter stating that? Why tell him to fly to Toronto to review the contents of the movie with their lawyers?
He flew to the Arnold to meet with them? Did he have a meeting? Was he working the Muscletech booth? He was 'fired'? Terminated? Really? Or did the contract end???
There is a BIG difference between the two?
Make some sense - give me a straight answer? Everything here is mixed?
Look, if someone is fired, that is something. But if their contract is done, and it is not renewed, it is another thing. There is a big difference between the two. I really dont care what company is it, but a simple answer. Was he fired, or did the contract not renew?
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Ron is quite right..there is a vast difference between being fired - whilst still under contract- and not having your contract renewed.
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According to Beoving on BNR, Vince said to him on the phone "Christian, you're fired". Can't get much more clear than that. ::)
Ron = Muscletech shill
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Having watched this for the first time..I think he is an idiot. Not only does he admit to steroid use (not so bad) but he insults the saps who pay his wages by buying this shit he's peddling.
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yeah what on earth was he thinking saying that?
E
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Ron, listen to the show before posting. Christian described EXACTLY what happened.
1) Muscletech sent him a contract renewal (no one does this unless they plan to re-sign an athlete -- just ask Priest or Alves or Dugdale)
2) Christian made some minor changes and sent it back.
3) Word came back to Muscletech about Christian's statements in the movie.
4) Muscletech claimed they were sending out the executed contract but never did.
5) Christian was told they were reviewing matters.
6) Christian flew to the Arnold to speak with MT employees and was rebuffed.
7) Christian flew to Toronto to meet with MT execs and their lawyers so they could view the film and reach a decision.
8) Three weeks later, he was officially informed that he had been terminated.
If they chose not to renew his contract because they were moving on, where's the letter stating that? Why tell him to fly to Toronto to review the contents of the movie with their lawyers?
No one is given a letter stating why a company chooses NOT to renew a contract...
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Having watched this for the first time..I think he is an idiot. Not only does he admit to steroid use (not so bad) but he insults the saps who pay his wages by buying this shit he's peddling.
Ouch! Yeah, they pretty much had to fire him after that. As during the war... "loose lips sink ships."
The good news is everyone can now know (if they didn't before) that all those supplements are only intended to separate you from your $$$. If you want real results, get real steroids. :D
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The good news is everyone can now know (if they didn't before) that all those supplements are only intended to separate you from your $$$. If you want real results, get real steroids. :D
If there is anyone on this board who doesn't know that, then they haven't been paying attention.
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Something tells me Christian is gonna get the BNR bump. Much like Jason Arntz.
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It there is anyone on this board who doesn't know that, then they haven't been paying attention.
I’m sure everyone here knows that, but we are not the audience for this film. Even though many here do not want to admit it everyone on this board is a moderate to hardcore fan of bodybuilding.
This film was made for a general audience of young (male) sports fans. Fans of typical sports that require a muscled body that can perform: football, wrestling, weightlifting, track & field, baseball, etc. This movie was made for people who watch ABS Sports or ESPN—not guys who post on a bodybuilding board (it's assumed that we will see it). Like the director himself, many in the former group do not realize that even modest physiques and fitness models have bodies that are built on steroids.
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Something tells me Christian is gonna get the BNR bump. Much like Jason Arntz.
GO ON BNR AND GETTING A KNOCK FROM THE FEDS....
Pro Bodybuilder Jason Arntz arrested for manufacturing steroids
Pro Bodybuilder Jason Arntz arrested for manufacturing steroids (story in Newark Star-Ledger). The alleged ring included a football coach, and a star running back.
Morris County Prosecutor Michael M. Rubbinaccio said authorities found a "fully functional lab," complete with a pill press, in the McKinley Avenue home Dente shares with his father, Ben. Also seized were enough ingredients -- from China and Greece -- to make 35,000 doses of steroids, he said.
"They are dead wrong," said Ben Dente. "It's all BS. There's no manufacturing here. It's not a factory and there was no buying or selling in my house."..
Professional bodybuilder Jason Arntz, 35, of South Brunswick provided the expertise for manufacturing the steroids, although Cuppari and Dente also got information off the Web, Rubbinaccio said. Charged with one count of conspiracy to manufacture steroids, Arntz was released on $50,000 bail.
The other 13 suspects, including the high school football player, were charged as customers, police said. Also seized in raids and arrests that began Friday and ended Sunday were other drugs, including cocaine and Cialis, a dozen vehicles and weapons valued at about $200,000 combined, according to authorities. Larry Zhou, 23, of East Hanover is charged with providing cocaine to Cuppari, and Joseph Monticello, 21, of East Hanover is charged with selling drugs to others, authorities said.
New Jersey became the first state to develop a functional steroid testing program for high schools.
Posted by GRG51 on 03/13/2007 | Permalink
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I remember Boeving, working out right next to me at Venice Gold's. He looked good. It's sad how companies that buid their bussiness on lying and false advert fire a guy for being honest. Sad days we are living.
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I remember Boeving, working out right next to me at Venice Gold's. He looked good. It's sad how companies that buid their bussiness on lying and false advert fire a guy for being honest. Sad days we are living.
It's not sad. It's consistent. :-\
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He answered the question well. I think it was just a can of worms to bring up steroids in the first place.
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If there is anyone on this board who doesn't know that, then they haven't been paying attention.
there are quite a few on here who still swear by Protein powder and creatine. Amazing huh.
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there are quite a few on here who still swear by Protein powder and creatine. Amazing huh.
Really? Oye!
Has anyone seen this movie yet? I'll wait until it's available on Netflix.
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He was basically bashing people who buy his company's product......... and he doesn't have cutler's status......bad idea..
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First time i watched that, fucking wow.
A 16 year old should be smarter than that? Even an 18 year old?
At that age you want to believe things as well. He should at least talk about being on a strict diet (if he is!) or something rather than make out steroids do all the work.
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he looks like hes natural to me, Layne Norton is about the same size has him, haha what a dumb fuck.
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he looks like hes natural to me, Layne Norton is about the same size has him, haha what a dumb fuck.
::)
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No one is given a letter stating why a company chooses NOT to renew a contract...
No, actually they sometimes leave you a voicemail.
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::)
(http://ptwithchris.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/layne-norton.jpg)
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(http://ptwithchris.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/layne-norton.jpg)
Layne isn't close. Layne can get in great condition but everyone looks bigger ripped.
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Sepe received over $250k for a 3-book series, not bad i think,...
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Look, if someone is fired, that is something. But if their contract is done, and it is not renewed, it is another thing. There is a big difference between the two. I really don't care what company is it, but a simple answer. Was he fired, or did the contract not renew?
I don't know why your pretending that the statement he made in the movie had no effect on the outcome of this contract. It's quite obvious it did. Ron your becoming a bit biased and that neutral stance you once had seems nonexistent these days. It's seem as if your arguing points just because BNR has become a competitive entity towards PBW and the fact that your sponsored by Muscletech keeps you hesitant of agreeing that this is the main reason for Beoving being let go.
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the fact that your sponsored by Muscletech keeps you hesitant of agreeing that this is the main reason for Beoving being let go.
Which shows that Ron is much smarter than Christian!
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having been fired from a muscle magazine due to writing a column that discussed studies sponsored by Muscletech that demonstrated that the product tested did not work, it is not surprising that their model was fired for potentially hurthing their sales. Truth or not, it is about $.
If the companies actually followed advertising rules, the sham supplement game would not be so rude.
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I wonder how many getbiggers consume Muscletech products. ::)
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I wonder how many getbiggers consume Muscletech products. ::)
I'd hope the people who actually contribute to this site are smart enough to know that muscletech products are not a necessity to bodybuilding.