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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: headhuntersix on June 09, 2008, 08:23:08 AM
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We've discussed this at length but this article sums up how I feel about Obama on this issue. He can't deal without a prepared statement or a teleprompter. He goes off message and u get US troops liberating Poland and 57 states.
Barack Obama was thrown off guard by John McCain's proposal for them to appear together at 10 town hall meetings this summer before the party conventions. Or maybe his initial response was merely disingenuous.
Obama has insisted for months now that the campaign should be civil and friendly and geared to ending polarization and promoting bipartisanship. Seizing on this, McCain said in his letter to Obama that they should fly on the same plane to at least the first town hall meeting and then have nine more across the country--just the two of them gabbing with the grass roots.
So why wouldn't Senator Bring-Us-Together jump enthusiastically at the opportunity? Several reasons, all political. Obama figures he's going to win because of the strong Democratic tide and doesn't want to offer opportunities for Republicans to lay a glove on him. Also, he's not particularly good at town hall gatherings--spontaneity is not his thing--but McCain is at his best at such sessions. And Obama would rather give set speeches, at which he's terrific, than take questions that might force him to deal with things (Rev. Wright, Tony Rezko, etc.) he'd rather not talk about.
Responding to McCain's proposal, Obama told ABC News that he'd "definitely" do "some" town hall debates. But campaign manager David Plouffe said Obama would prefer "less structured" events like the Lincoln-Douglas debates. Surely Plouffe and Obama know better. Those famous 1858 debates were highly structured: one candidate spoke for an hour, the other for 90 minutes, then a 30-minute rebuttal by the first. No questions, no interaction, no surprises, no moments of unrehearsed candor--only set speeches.
What's actually less structured? Town hall meetings. They are the least structured of all campaign events, especially if the questioners aren't handpicked and their questions aren't scripted and given to the candidates in advance. To Obama, that's a recipe for trouble--unless, of course, the whole thing is structured to limit the question topics and thus avoid surprises or awkward moments.
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mccain wants to SKIP the televised debates.
he knows why. he'll look like an old man next to a young jfk.
if he wanted BOTH, I support it. But skipping the one that'll make him look visually bad? sneaky.
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McCain's been stumping for months with no competition.
Why should Obama go from debating Hillary to debating McCain?
Give the man a chance to stump for a while as the democratic nominee.
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Just one question...
Did mcCain make this demand during the republican primaries?
Or was it only once he realized he was going to look like a bone rack next to a diverse JFK that he thought of the idea? He had it in the can, as he released it the day after Obama wins...
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Obama uses notecards mostly.
He should have had a notecard to describe his family past time stories on liberating jews, lol
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Mccain should at least be HONEST here.
He suddenly wants to change the traditional format - which he's never criticized before - because he knows he'll look better seated than standing. He knows he'll sweat under the heavy lights. He knows the gaffe police, and those vanity voters, are waiting for his first stumble on a step, etc, to label him old and incompetent. He knows JFK only won over Nixon in 1960 because of standing TV debates/visual impressions.
He also knows that obama looks like shit seated. He knows obama will look like a bully when he interrupts the old war hero. What will slightly racist voters think when they see a young athletic black man telling an elderly, white war hero that he's wrong? You know what they'll think. They'll vote mccain.
McCain is wise to make this request, but I hope all of us are smart enough to know it's NOT about "grass roots gabbing for the people". It's about increasing his chances of winning. That's it.
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Obama is a better fundraiser, more cash, so hence Mccains desire to "share a jet". Honestly, it is just not on to come on TV and all ask to save cash and hitch a ride with the dem candidate, it is just unpresidential.
Obama draws massive crowds, up to 75,000 people - McCain has been speaking to crowds at small as 100 people. No one has been coming out to hear McCain all this time, they won't start now. Obama is just packing them in. Totally embarassing for McCain to be 'owned' by Obama week after week. He doesn't want that highlighted so wants to share Obama's crowd appeal and mask his lack of crowd appeal.
I ws unaware of this seated/standing/TV thing. Makes sense as 240 says....McCain at the best of times, looks like really old and Obama is way younger, like 5" taller and yes, he's very good looking also.
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Obama is a better fundraiser, more cash, so hence Mccains desire to "share a jet". Honestly, it is just not on to come on TV and all ask to save cash and hitch a ride with the dem candidate, it is just unpresidential.
Obama draws massive crowds, up to 75,000 people - McCain has been speaking to crowds at small as 100 people. No one has been coming out to hear McCain all this time, they won't start now. Obama is just packing them in. Totally embarassing for McCain to be 'owned' by Obama week after week. He doesn't want that highlighted so wants to share Obama's crowd appeal and mask his lack of crowd appeal.
I ws unaware of this seated/standing/TV thing. Makes sense as 240 says....McCain at the best of times, looks like really old and Obama is way younger, like 5" taller and yes, he's very good looking also.
Good points on the draw.
Perhaps Obama should say that if Americans want to ask him Qs, they can continue coming out to rallies. If he wanted to talk to Mccain, he could just visit whitehouse.gov and get his answers there.
Remember, by voting record, Mccain = (.95)Bush
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Obama is a better fundraiser, more cash, so hence Mccains desire to "share a jet". Honestly, it is just not on to come on TV and all ask to save cash and hitch a ride with the dem candidate, it is just unpresidential.
Obama draws massive crowds, up to 75,000 people - McCain has been speaking to crowds at small as 100 people. No one has been coming out to hear McCain all this time, they won't start now. Obama is just packing them in. Totally embarassing for McCain to be 'owned' by Obama week after week. He doesn't want that highlighted so wants to share Obama's crowd appeal and mask his lack of crowd appeal.
I ws unaware of this seated/standing/TV thing. Makes sense as 240 says....McCain at the best of times, looks like really old and Obama is way younger, like 5" taller and yes, he's very good looking also.
From what I recall, the 75,000 crowd was either partly or largely the result of a concert held in conjunction with Obama's speech.
Regarding the debates, Obama is not a great debater. Unless he improves significantly from the primary debates, he's not going to improve his stock much when he faces McCain.
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From what I recall, the 75,000 crowd was either partly or largely the result of a concert held in conjunction with Obama's speech.
Ok, then I will concede that one. How about all the 20,000 - 35,000 crowds he has pulled completely by himself numerous times? How about the fact that McCain can't even get into the 5 figures. I was so embarrassed for him when he spoke to that measly group of 100 :-\
Obama has undeniably better crowd appeal than McCain. All the numbers show that.
Debate, they are both not too hot IMO. Both could use work.
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Ok, then I will concede that one. How about all the 20,000 - 35,000 crowds he has pulled completely by himself numerous times? How about the fact that McCain can't even get into the 5 figures. I was so embarrassed for him when he spoke to that measly group of 100 :-\
Obama has undeniably better crowd appeal than McCain. All the numbers show that.
Debate, they are both not too hot IMO. Both could use work.
I wouldn't place much stock in crowds at this point. Not a reliable predictor IMO. We don't even know how many of the crowd members are likely voters. And I could definitely see more people wanting to hear Obama give a speech than McCain. Obama makes great speeches (style, not substance).
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Obama has undeniably better crowd appeal than McCain. All the numbers show that.
This race has taken the shape of American Idol rather than American president.
The facts stand hard..McCain is the better suited person for being president once all issues are compared
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Not just "a" concert... it was the Decemberists!!! >:(
Maybe Obama could use a debate enhancing device. People don't seem to mind.
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I wouldn't place much stock in crowds at this point. Not a reliable predictor IMO. We don't even know how many of the crowd members are likely voters. And I could definitely see more people wanting to hear Obama give a speech than McCain. Obama makes great speeches (style, not substance).
Yes, you and I know that crowds are no predictor. The average voter, whose idea of reading is breaking open the National Enquirer, does not really. I am not saying it will impact the vote per se, but will simply not too look good overall. 3 in race fuzzed it, 2 will highlight it. A newsclip of Obama speaking to 20,000+ ppl then cut to McCain speaking to 700 - month after month.
This race has taken the shape of American Idol rather than American president.
I have long said that. The media/race seems focused on anything but issues. Coverage is all about race, gender, haircut costs, family recipes, bitter, wifes income etc. Here that never occurs and issues are what they discuss which I must say, may be correct but is boring as hell ;D
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This thread is a major backfire for HH6. 1st 240 post shut him down and CQ danced on the coffin.... ;D
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Hey warhorse...all this showed was how media inept some of u guys are. McCain knows that Obama is ill prepeared and wants to take him out of his comfort zone. U guys are playing from an old playbook. We're well past the Nixon Kennedy thing. Everybody knows he's old. MCain knows that obama is afiction ina suit. He knows that he can speak on the issues. Obama will founder.
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Hey warhorse...all this showed was how media inept some of u guys are. McCain knows that Obama is ill prepeared and wants to take him out of his comfort zone. U guys are playing from an old playbook. We're well past the Nixon Kennedy thing. Everybody knows he's old. MCain knows that obama is afiction ina suit. He knows that he can speak on the issues. Obama will founder.
Everyone knows he's old? Yes.
Everyone also knows the face of America for the last 7 years has been a fumbling liar.
When everyone sees him get up there and repeat the need for policies of a bumbling liar, and do it while looking 85 years old, it's going to look bad. It just is. You cannot deny it. They know he's old, but only the political nerds like us have envisioned a 70-year old version of Bush with limited physical capability and 5 foot 4.
Does Mccain represent the strength, power and dignity that some voters seek?
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Also, not to be a bimbo but that creepy smile and turbo eye blinking thing McCain broke out last speech needs to go. It really was perturbing.
Obama is very good looking and charistmatic. McCain is all old, which tends to be creepy by default anyway, needs to watch the 'creep factor'.
Someone will launch into 'that doesn't matter' - yes it does. Ron Paul *great* ideas, clean background and came across creepy and totally flopped.
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Also, not to be a bimbo but that creepy smile and turbo eye blinking thing McCain broke out last speech needs to go. It really was perturbing.
Obama is very good looking and charistmatic. McCain is all old, which tends to be creepy by default anyway, needs to watch the 'creep factor'.
Someone will launch into 'that doesn't matter' - yes it does. Ron Paul *great* ideas, clean background and came across creepy and totally flopped.
It absolutely does matter. It's partly a beauty contest. Sad but true.
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It absolutely does matter. It's partly a beauty contest. Sad but true.
Yep. Think about it.
Clinton was cooler/better looking than Bush, and won.
Clinton was cooler/better looking than Dole, and won.
Bush2 was cooler/better looking than Gore, and won.
Bush2 was cooler//better looking than Kerry, and won.
Who is cooler//better looking in 2008?
Repubs might have shot themselves in the foot not choosing Romney.
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Hey warhorse...all this showed was how media inept some of u guys are. McCain knows that Obama is ill prepeared and wants to take him out of his comfort zone. U guys are playing from an old playbook. We're well past the Nixon Kennedy thing. Everybody knows he's old. MCain knows that obama is afiction ina suit. He knows that he can speak on the issues. Obama will founder.
Look, I dont blame old mccain for grasping at straws. Bush has gauranteed that americans will vomit at the thouhgt of another warmongering leader. We're broke and tired of all the fear spins pushed on us.
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Town Hall debates have been common in the past are televised and can be performed sitting or standing and can have movement in the case of 92 and 96.
What sets a town hall apart is the questions from the audience. So Prepared notes are not as important.
Obama wanted Town halls on May 12th vs McCain, what gives.
http://www.thebulletin.us/site/index.cfm?newsid=19683319&BRD=2737&PAG=461&dept_id=576361&rfi=8
To see how Clinton won the Town hall debates against Bush 1 and Dole read this.
Town halls usually work for the better orators, because there is less debate.
http://www.scientificjournals.org/journals2007/articles/1014.htm
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Repubs might have shot themselves in the foot not choosing Romney.
Honestly, I think Romney would be way more formidable opponent for the dems. Recalling, most people who vote are half clueless.
The repubs knew they would be up againest Clinton or Obama who are very 'today'. McCain defines 'yesterday' down to age, past racist slurs and not to be rude appearance, guys looks even older than 71. Romney - younger, 'clean' wife not a ex-druggie thief, successful sons etc. Great looking, he looks like presidents you see in movies.
Not every American supports the war - McCains 'big ticket'. With the economy tanking, Romney's background in business would have been a real asset. EVERY American wants a stronger economy and more money.
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Honestly, I think Romney would be way more formidable opponent for the dems. Recalling, most people who vote are half clueless.
The repubs knew they would be up againest Clinton or Obama who are very 'today'. McCain defines 'yesterday' down to age, past racist slurs and not to be rude appearance, guys looks even older than 71. Romney - younger, 'clean' wife not a ex-druggie thief, successful sons etc. Great looking, he looks like presidents you see in movies.
Not every American supports the war - McCains 'big ticket'. With the economy tanking, Romney's background in business would have been a real asset. EVERY American wants a stronger economy and more money.
yeah, that is why I am SURE that Romney will be the veep choice for Mccain, without a doubt.
Romney was defeated because Huck stayed in the race even though he was out of money and contention. He split the religious/conservative vote, and mccain won by default with moderate repub voters.
If I was Mccain, there is NO way I'd want to stand next to Obama in front of 40 million TV viewers. No way.
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Romney would have lost badly.
He isolates the core republican voters even more than McCain.
There is almost no way that an Evangelical would vote for him.
A rich Mormon from Massachusetts. The only hope he had was if Obama was a Muslim, which he is not.
It is like thinking a woman could win. America is not ready for that.
Romney will not be associated with McCain. McCain needs a real evangelical Christian as his VP.
McCain isn't afraid of town hall TV debates. Obama is, even after he was the first to challenge McCain, now he is back peddling.
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If I was Mccain, there is NO way I'd want to stand next to Obama in front of 40 million TV viewers. No way.
It really will look bad, first thing my dad said - and he is McCains age :-\
McCain does *not* move well either, he is very slow getting up steps etc. The height thing will not help either. McCain will totally look a short feeble old man.
Will be sticky, does Obama help him out his his seat? If he tries - that may look condescending. If he does not - that may look rude. I assume he went through the same thing with Hillary, a female 15 years his senior [but vibrant, not all decrepit] and he went with pulling out the chair.
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Will be sticky, does Obama help him out his his seat? If he tries - that may look condescending. If he does not - that may look rude. I assume he went through the same thing with Hillary, a female 15 years his senior [but vibrant, not all decrepit] and he went with pulling out the chair.
I'm sure mccain's team is preparing for this.
I predict he'll
1) agree quietly with their team ahead of time that neither party helps the other into chairs.
2) hope obama offers to help him, so he can deliver a prepared quip about "I don't need your help, I ... [insert reminder he's a war hero].
At least that's what I would do if I was running his campaign.
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Obama will likely shred him. McCain, the pandering nipple whore, doesn't have the mental agility to keep up.
Besides, McCain sold his soul to get the nomination.
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Why do people refer to Obama as JFK?
JFK was a Hawk and Obama is socialist pussy.
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Why do people refer to Obama as JFK?
JFK was a Hawk and Obama is socialist pussy.
Young, good looking, represents change.
JFK was like a 10.
Clinton a 7.
Obama a 7.
People are so sick of the bush/Clinton machines... if there was no JFK, they'd be syaing obama is the second coming of jesus.
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Young, good looking, represents change.
JFK was like a 10.
Clinton a 7.
Obama a 7.
People are so sick of the bush/Clinton machines... if there was no JFK, they'd be syaing obama is the second coming of jesus.
What is the change?
Gun control and heavy taxes?
Sounds like the same old crap to me.
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What is the change?
Gun control and heavy taxes?
Sounds like the same old crap to me.
Bush was mean. (I don't care if 99% of you hate this war, it's not stopping)
McCain is mean (bomb iran)
Obama is nice.
maybe it's that simple?
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Bush was mean. (I don't care if 99% of you hate this war, it's not stopping)
McCain is mean (bomb iran)
Obama is nice.
maybe it's that simple?
Now that's the change this country needs.
A nice whimp.
Great.
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Obama wants to invade Pakistan.
A sovereign nation and an American Ally.
Ya he's really nice.
Won't be too long till HH6 is in Darfur.
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Obama wants to invade Pakistan.
A sovereign nation and an American Ally....
an ally who has protected Osama for 7 years?
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Hey they let America fly over their country and they have lost more troops fighting the Taliban then any other country by far.
Certain groups inside of Pakistan's frontier area are protecting Al Qaeda, but the government has no control over this region.
If they close their Airspace America will have a really difficult time in Afghanistan.
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Hey they let America fly over their country and they have lost more troops fighting the Taliban then any other country by far.
Certain groups inside of Pakistan's frontier area are protecting Al Qaeda, but the government has no control over this region.
Hey, for the $6B we've given them, airspace is more than fair.
If they admit they can't control this region, what is wrong with us doing it?
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The FBI has already been helping them, however the change in government has really hindered efforts as the groups are finding more allies in parliament.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/06/pakistans_swat_peace.php
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2008/06/north_waziristan_pea.php
• "Foreigners' must leave North Waziristan.
• Al Qaeda operatives can live in North Waziristan "as long as they pledge to remain peaceful."
• The Taliban may not establish a parallel government.
• The Taliban must halt attacks on government and security forces personnel.
• The Taliban "agreed to jointly struggle against extremism and terrorism throughout the agency."
• Disclosing the contents of the peace agreement is prohibited.
• A fine of about $740,000 will be assessed for anyone violating the terms of the agreement.
• The government will withdraw the Army and turn over security to the paramilitary Frontier Corps.
• The government will release captured Taliban leaders and fighters.
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The FBI has already been helping them, however the change in government has really hindered efforts
Are you referring to the 2007 change in govt?
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Bush was mean. (I don't care if 99% of you hate this war, it's not stopping)
McCain is mean (bomb iran)
Obama is nice.
maybe it's that simple?
I respect the fact that this is a US election, but just look at world opinion.
Maybe as I watch news from all over the world, I see it more. The world LOVES Obama. He has been front page news all over the world. Parties were held everywhere when he got the nomination. You see Obama t-shirts everywhere in the world. Old people I ask, tell me they have never seen anything like it. Nothing close, ever. Politicians worldwide are invoking his name, saying they need one in their nation. People are planning to fly in for the election, saw it on CNN and actually *know* a few people. I personally have never seen my islands gives a rats ass about US election and its Obama fever here. World is Obama mad - and I am serious, check it out.
Mr "I Hate Gooks". Wonder what the US bankrollers China, Japan and S Korea will really think of him. That will be lovely international relations there. McCain is seen as Bush partII - a serious threat to world peace and unstable. He gets as much press worldwide as I do ::)
Some insular fool with say something stupid, oh they are all terrorists. Give me a break, it is worldwide, friendly nations, rich nations who are the ones lending the US cash, adore him. It is an FACT that whatever else we may think of him, an Obama presidency will restore the US to greatness overnight in the world eyes. Happening already. That is a tangible thing. Reduced hostility, increase tourism levels, friendlier and more beneficial relations.
Maybe instead of bombing [than borrowing] from the world - work with the world - which is what Obama is seen to bring.
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The rich and friendly nation of China is lending us money because of Obama?
The Muslim Nutjobs, that put goats above women, are excited about the sweepng reforms that Obama will give to us to insure our freedoms and good standing around the world?
I'm glad the "Islands" are supporting Obama overwhelmingly. Could it be because he is black?
Is that what is making it so historic?
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The rich and friendly nation of China is lending us money because of Obama?
The Muslim Nutjobs, that put goats above women, are excited about the sweepng reforms that Obama will give to us to insure our freedoms and good standing around the world?
I'm glad the "Islands" are supporting Obama overwhelmingly. Could it be because he is black?
Is that what is making it so historic?
Never even alluded to China lending due to Obama.
The islands - Your US press keeps saying Hispanics don't suppport Obama. You are aware majority of Caribbean is actually Hispanic?
For some reason people seem unaware of the invasions, killings and occupations the islands have been through. All in the name of "help" or "freeing" us ala Iraq. Recall us attacking the US? Or even each other? No. We have a vested interest in *not* seeing a bomb happy US president :-\
Why are the Australians supporting Obama so much - one of your biggest allies and a 92% white nation? He was on their top 20 most searched terms for 2 months straight online and they held mock elections n schools and the kids loved him. I just returned from there, and they are into him royally. Watch BBC or read the Daily Mail? The Brits, your other strong allies, are caught up as well. They follow his ever move, send press corps to cover him. Many more examples....it is not a Muslim or black thing, it's a peace thing.
Twist it however, the world = very pro Obama as he seen as a man of peace, not some nutbag who will start up WWIII :-\
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Are you referring to the 2007 change in govt?
Yes,
They are signing agreements with Al Qeada and the Taliban.
Pakisan is sick of their civil war.
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Yes,
They are signing agreements with Al Qeada and the Taliban.
Pakisan is sick of their civil war.
Okay. So pakistan had a stable govt from 2001-2007 and were unable to catch osama in SIX years.
Still pretty sad.
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Okay. So pakistan had a stable govt from 2001-2007 and were unable to catch osama in SIX years.
Still pretty sad.
Nobody 'catches" him because he works for the CIA as a "Sub-contractor" ;D
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HH6, you're kidding right ?
NT
Dude the guy wants a standard debate because he will be able to get all his BS talking points out and can't be cross examed. Obama is apolished tele-promptor speaker. He gets a crowd fired up...but when he has to go back and forth..he will be in alot of trouble. Thats why McCain will smoke him in this format. Obama has no deep grasp of the issues. He speaks in general and grandios terms of hope and change. When asked about specifics, he refers people to his web site. He has come off horrible on the Sunday news shows. He''s better at making speeches.
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Dude the guy wants a standard debate because he will be able to get all his BS talking points out and can't be cross examed. Obama is apolished tele-promptor speaker. He gets a crowd fired up...but when he has to go back and forth..he will be in alot of trouble. Thats why McCain will smoke him in this format. Obama has no deep grasp of the issues. He speaks in general and grandios terms of hope and change. When asked about specifics, he refers people to his web site. He has come off horrible on the Sunday news shows. He''s better at making speeches.
Obama is a way better speaker than debater for sure. Undeniable.
Thing is McCain is no peach. The king of gaffes, not all that quick on the mark either and seriously - present company excluded - to the general moron public the feeble old shriveled man creepy smile vibe he will project next to Obama will not be a benefit. Like voting in your elderly senile grandfather.
They both need work and are not stellar debaters, bring back Guilaini I say, at least his stupid laugh and comments were always interesting and amusing.
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At least u seem to be getting my point. Yeah Mccain looks old....but in the format described it won't matter. When Obama can't preach..he gets in trouble and Mccain knows it.....
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mccain wants to SKIP the televised debates.
he knows why. he'll look like an old man next to a young jfk.
if he wanted BOTH, I support it. But skipping the one that'll make him look visually bad? sneaky.
You have been kneepadding forever bro. Waiting for you to bump those threads.